<<< Nascar 2 Demo Reaction >>>

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> First let me say that some of the previous posts with all their "f--- > you's" and the such are obviously done by complete idiots and to be > taken as the weight of a grain of salt.. if you are having trouble > downloading, be patient, get a new server, or learn how to operate > your computer. Papyurs is doing us a service. > Now I want to give my reaction to the demo. > First the good: > The graphics are much better, the cars are more clear and smooth, and > the new tracks are awesome. The announcer is a real plus for the game. > The menu's are excellent and the setup menu is great. It kinda of > reminds me of "Flight Unlimited". I really like the layout and it > looks like a real "polished" game. Good Job! > Now for the bad: > Why is the sound of the car still the same? After all this time, > having owned Nascar 1 since it first hit the shelf, don't you think us > customers want more realistic and better sampled engine and skid audio > that would really make the game better then the same old sounds? > That's one area of definite NEED of improvement. > Most importantly, which did rather disappoint me, is that the game > engine, the driving dynamics of the game, remains excatly the same as > Nascar 1. There is no ability to be in neutral and drop the clutch, > and why do I have to have a seperate key for going in reverse??? I > mean this is common sense talking to you here. The car still feels > like the earth's gravity has been multiplied by 10, and the track is > flat... you know real tracks have raised curbs, and the track does > come up higher then the grass, right? > And its amazing that I can be going 150 miles an hour, give the car a > 120 psi panic brake stop, and will not lock up the tires... another > common sense thing which I will expect for Nascar 2 to deliver. > I hope you listen to this and other user comments. I look foward to > better simulations, and I realize this is a demo. Yet what I was most > afraid of with Nascar 2 does seem to be coming true. Basically, a > freshly dressed up Nascar 1, with no real simulation change. Take your > time with the game, we can wait much longer for a much better market > version of Nascar.. thanks and keep up the good work. > http://www.netcom.com/~motosprt/index.html

I would agree with your reaction. I'm also tempted to say that the demo, at least, seems to have taken the tack of making Nascar 2 the "Airwarrior" of driving sims. By that I mean, it appears to me that there is a LOT of dash, roof, side posts, and a VERY small viewing window. That makes sense from a SVGA performance point of view, but it seems like a step in the wrong direction in my view. I have a 17" monitor, so I get a decent view of the "world", but I'd hate to have to run it on a 14" deal. Lots of "filler" on the screen, small viewing area. Personally, I don't care for it. JEB

First let me say that some of the previous posts with all their "f--- you's" and the such are obviously done by complete idiots and to be taken as the weight of a grain of salt.. if you are having trouble downloading, be patient, get a new server, or learn how to operate your computer. Papyurs is doing us a service. Now I want to give my reaction to the demo. First the good: The graphics are much better, the cars are more clear and smooth, and the new tracks are awesome. The announcer is a real plus for the game. The menu's are excellent and the setup menu is great. It kinda of reminds me of "Flight Unlimited". I really like the layout and it looks like a real "polished" game. Good Job! Now for the bad: Why is the sound of the car still the same? After all this time, having owned Nascar 1 since it first hit the shelf, don't you think us customers want more realistic and better sampled engine and skid audio that would really make the game better then the same old sounds? That's one area of definite NEED of improvement. Most importantly, which did rather disappoint me, is that the game engine, the driving dynamics of the game, remains excatly the same as Nascar 1. There is no ability to be in neutral and drop the clutch, and why do I have to have a seperate key for going in reverse??? I mean this is common sense talking to you here. The car still feels like the earth's gravity has been multiplied by 10, and the track is flat... you know real tracks have raised curbs, and the track does come up higher then the grass, right? And its amazing that I can be going 150 miles an hour, give the car a 120 psi panic brake stop, and will not lock up the tires... another common sense thing which I will expect for Nascar 2 to deliver. I hope you listen to this and other user comments. I look foward to better simulations, and I realize this is a demo. Yet what I was most afraid of with Nascar 2 does seem to be coming true. Basically, a freshly dressed up Nascar 1, with no real simulation change. Take your time with the game, we can wait much longer for a much better market version of Nascar.. thanks and keep up the good work. http://www.netcom.com/~motosprt/index.html

As to the view, I can say that we did alot of work trying to get this right. We think it's about as close as we can get it. Although we are still tweaking the FOV a bit. But, when you are driving Bristol and can't see out of the turn, that's how it is in real NASCAR. In terms of wheels locking up and such, that requires a whole brand new physics engine which we are working on but is not ready for NASCAR 2. Adam Papyrus

Field of view does seem a little small. Like maybe that was the only way you could keep the frame rate under control.

>and why do I have to have a seperate key for going in reverse??? I >mean this is common sense talking to you here. The car still feels are you saying to downshift from first into neutral, then reverse? please go into more detail... dunno about anyone else, but you sure confused me...

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>I would agree with your reaction. I'm also tempted to say that >the demo, at least, seems to have taken the tack of making >Nascar 2 the "Airwarrior" of driving sims. By that I mean, it >appears to me that there is a LOT of dash, roof, side posts, >and a VERY small viewing window. That makes sense from a >SVGA performance point of view, but it seems like a step in >the wrong direction in my view. I have a 17" monitor, so I get >a decent view of the "world", but I'd hate to have to run it >on a 14" deal. Lots of "filler" on the screen, small viewing >area. Personally, I don't care for it. >JEB

That's one thing I noticed too. It's a lot harder to "see ahead" for me with tne NASCAR 2 versus NASCAR 1. (I use a 14"...)

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> First let me say that some of the previous posts with all their "f--- > you's" and the such are obviously done by complete idiots and to be > taken as the weight of a grain of salt.. if you are having trouble > downloading, be patient, get a new server, or learn how to operate > your computer. Papyurs is doing us a service. > Now I want to give my reaction to the demo. > First the good: > The graphics are much better, the cars are more clear and smooth, and > the new tracks are awesome. The announcer is a real plus for the game. > The menu's are excellent and the setup menu is great. It kinda of > reminds me of "Flight Unlimited". I really like the layout and it > looks like a real "polished" game. Good Job! > Now for the bad: > Why is the sound of the car still the same? After all this time, > having owned Nascar 1 since it first hit the shelf, don't you think us > customers want more realistic and better sampled engine and skid audio > that would really make the game better then the same old sounds? > That's one area of definite NEED of improvement. > Most importantly, which did rather disappoint me, is that the game > engine, the driving dynamics of the game, remains excatly the same as > Nascar 1. There is no ability to be in neutral and drop the clutch, > and why do I have to have a seperate key for going in reverse??? I > mean this is common sense talking to you here. The car still feels > like the earth's gravity has been multiplied by 10, and the track is > flat... you know real tracks have raised curbs, and the track does > come up higher then the grass, right? > And its amazing that I can be going 150 miles an hour, give the car a > 120 psi panic brake stop, and will not lock up the tires... another > common sense thing which I will expect for Nascar 2 to deliver. > I hope you listen to this and other user comments. I look foward to > better simulations, and I realize this is a demo. Yet what I was most > afraid of with Nascar 2 does seem to be coming true. Basically, a > freshly dressed up Nascar 1, with no real simulation change. Take your > time with the game, we can wait much longer for a much better market > version of Nascar.. thanks and keep up the good work. > http://www.netcom.com/~motosprt/index.html

It just a demo and not the full version.

>I hope you listen to this and other user comments. I look foward to >better simulations, and I realize this is a demo. Yet what I was most >afraid of with Nascar 2 does seem to be coming true. Basically, a >freshly dressed up Nascar 1, with no real simulation change. Take your >time with the game, we can wait much longer for a much better market >version of Nascar.. thanks and keep up the good work. I expect we'll hear a lot of comments like this. This should not be news. Several months ago, Ed Martin mentioned that the physics engine would be unchanged from the MULTI version (which is a significant improvement over the NCR1 version with the bug fix). Unfortunately, a lot of the new features are not in the demo, like the improvements to the champsionship season. What did make it to the demo is enough for me to shell out the $$$ for a copy: The graphics are a significant improvement, an even bigger step than going from ICR to ICR2. The spotter/crew chief audio is incredible, I've run several races without using the mirrors at all and have never hit anybody. You didn't mention the improvements to Watkins Glen. You can take the last turn in the esses flat out (inspite of the terrible setup they stick you with) and the inner loop is more realistic, though the walls are still there. The downhill from the loop into the carousel is there (which is flat land in NCR1). According to Papyrus, aside from the graphics improvements at all the tracks, several will have improved physical models (Dover, Phoenix and Talladega have been mentioned, Watkins Glen was a surprise). I'd be curious as to how many of the disappointed people are comparing this, consciously or not, to GP2. I've had minimal exposure to GP2 (just a few minutes test ride on a friend's computer). Your final comment: "...we can wait much longer for a much better market version of Nascar...". Maybe you can, but Papyrus probably can't. In order for a company to stay in business, they need to generate cash flow. NASCAR is 2 years old and they can't expect it to keep generating the kind of revenue necessary to keep the doors open. Sierra isn't exactly flush with cash, so they are probably feeling pressure to release something this season. I don't know about Papyrus, but if I recall the statistic correctly, most entertainment software companies generate 40% of their revenue in the 4th quarter. It's pretty uncomfortable to be sitting on the sidelines during the big selling season. Dave (davids) Sparks Late Night League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

--->That's one thing I noticed too. It's a lot harder to "see ahead" for --->me with tne NASCAR 2 versus NASCAR 1. (I use a 14"...) ---> Could it be that the view through the windshield is more true to life in NASCAR 2 than in 1? I've never sat in a Cup car, so I have no way of knowing. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Politically Incorrect and proud of it!

Hi Adam Man you guys did a great job on this one, I really like the perspective, I think its easier to drive in traffic now. Steve

>Could it be that the view through the windshield is more true to life >in NASCAR 2 than in 1? I've never sat in a Cup car, so I have no way >of knowing. could be, I haven't either, but I'm sure it isn't too much different from a regular car (since they have the same dash/windshield area)... now I have driven stock cars, and we put the seat as far back as possible, and move the pedals to the driver. possibly they are accounting for that being back more in the car? Go #6 Mark Martin,#16 Ted Musgrave & #99 Jeff Burton - Jack Roush Racing!! NASCAR Racing!! http://camalott.com/~sean/nascar/nascar.htm <--NASCAR Racing Sim page

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> As to the view, I can say that we did alot of work trying to get this > right. We think it's about as close as we can get it. Although we are > still tweaking the FOV a bit. But, when you are driving Bristol and can't > see out of the turn, that's how it is in real NASCAR. > In terms of wheels locking up and such, that requires a whole brand new > physics engine which we are working on but is not ready for NASCAR 2.

How about improving the engine sound? It seems that Papyrus and the NASCAR organization are working close together (NRL, etc.) and given that it must be possible to find a way to get a sample that is superior to the current one. It would really make a difference. About the mirrors: Will track objects, track, etc be plotted(maybe optional) in the mirrors in addition to the cars? Finally I noticed that the number of revs shown when in outside view(F10) does not correspond to the revs reported on the tac-o-meter when inside the car(the in-car revs are a thousand revs higher). Which is wrong? About the damage level: The option screen says simulation, but damage is off. Is it because the damage menu-item doesn't work...? I must commend the artwork of the menu backgrounds(and the menus). They are really good looking. They are kind of professionally deconstructionistic, and hence post-post modern. A hit! A lot of good things in the demo(and later network play) like the spotter and the improved graphics. But the next time you release a racing simulation I you ought to have a much improved physics engine in place. But until then Nascar 2 will rock my computer. Thanks to you for releasing a demo. -- --- Terje Wold Johansen --- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/ --- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.

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>>As to the view, I can say that we did alot of work trying to get this >>right. We think it's about as close as we can get it. Although we are >>still tweaking the FOV a bit. But, when you are driving Bristol and can't >>see out of the turn, that's how it is in real NASCAR. >>In terms of wheels locking up and such, that requires a whole brand new >>physics engine which we are working on but is not ready for NASCAR 2. >>Adam >>Papyrus >Field of view does seem a little small. Like maybe that was the only >way you could keep the frame rate under control.

So what if that is the way it is in Nascar!!! I can't turn my head or duck my head down to see the whole picture!!! Giving us a bigger field of view makes the game more playable, besides looking a hell of a lot better. I also think that Papyrus did this for frame rate. Why don't they market this as a M1 Abrams racing game, feels like looking out a viewport in a tank! Dave Smith

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>>Could it be that the view through the windshield is more true to life >>in NASCAR 2 than in 1? I've never sat in a Cup car, so I have no way >>of knowing. >could be, I haven't either, but I'm sure it isn't too much different >from a regular car (since they have the same dash/windshield area)... >now I have driven stock cars, and we put the seat as far back as >possible, and move the pedals to the driver. possibly they are >accounting for that being back more in the car?

A late model stock car (which i have driven which had a 5 Star Monte body on it) is hard to see out of. I am assuming they would be somewhat similiar to a wc car. Yes..they have large sloped windshield areas, but what most people dont realize, is that you are sitting at 6-8" LOWER than in a normal car. This makes for a much reduced field of vision on the track. You can see the sky quite nicely:)) There is no way you can see the nose of your own car. You can in production cars. Randy

This is only a Demo but the Spoter is great. This adds alot of realism to the game.

Hey Terje, Believe me, one of our main priorities going forward is a completely new, better, even more realistic physics engine. We are hard at work on this now. You won't be disappointed :). Adam Papyrus

For my two cents worth, I just want to echo a couple of things (nothing like being beaten to death, eh?) The radio spotter is EXCELLENT! That alone, once it is tweaked a bit, will be a big help in immersing sim drivers in the race. Also, helps in traffic a great deal to know when you're clear (you can't always tell in the old mirrors). The frame rate seems a little better than in Nas1, but I'm hoping it will be a whole lot better with a Rendition graphics card - which I plan to buy in conjunction w/ NCR2. I agree with others that I had hoped for a slightly improved engine sound - but the thing I would have really liked to hear is a difference in the tire squeal when scrubbing in the turns and when spinning. The ungodly screech of a car sideways at 120 mph is not to be forgotten. It does seem that the sound effects of hitting stuff has been improved, so I would have hoped that others would have as well. Anyway, for a demo, I think it looks and runs really well. Can't wait til the full version comes out. Chris

Ill tell ya what I think this game is incredible just off the demo with limited features..Think about it where you ever going to get a game where someone tells you that a car is low or high.. i think its great. as far as the grahics great job. this biggest detail i noticed was the grandstands are true to life. the glen is all in the correct color and the backstreach grandstands at atlanta look great..

: Hey Terje, : Believe me, one of our main priorities going forward is a completely : new, better, even more realistic physics engine. We are hard at work on : this now. You won't be disappointed :). Adam, this is good news! Now, without naming a product or type of sim... Will we see this new physics engine first in a non-NASCAR sim? Just trying to get a hint of things to come ;-) -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

[some snipping] : Finally I noticed that the number of revs shown when in outside : view(F10) does not correspond to the revs reported on the : tac-o-meter when inside the car(the in-car revs are a thousand : revs higher). Which is wrong? I would hazard to guess that it is the inside revs that are off by 1,000. Try over-revving until you blow the engine. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=