Hearing engines of other cars

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> A recent issue of OnTrack had an article on the final race of the F1 > season. When asked about the early incident when Berger nearly hit > him entering a chicane, Damon said that it was the first time he'd > heard an engine other than his own since the days when he raced > motorcycles. > Just a data point as to whether an F1 driver can hear the other > engines... > Dave Wilson

Well OK Dave, Have you ever heard of anyone else that cant hear the other cars in F1? It seems Hill is an the only F1 driver I know of that cant hear the other cars, I have heard other F1 drivers say they can hear the other cars! I will try to find a quote to prove my point. So is Bergers car the only one Hill can hear? He evidently stated he heard it when it went in front of him and now your noting another 'separate statement from a chicane incident. Is the Englishman starting to get his hearing back? -DG

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>>... > Haha, you must be racing on rookie!(BIG grin) > No, really That statement was to dispute the fact that in real F1 cars > you can hear the other cars! > Another coal in the fire for GP2. Not being able to hear the other cars > IS quite unrealistic and still > convinces me of one other aspect of GP2 not being finished. >...

A recent issue of OnTrack had an article on the final race of the F1 season. When asked about the early incident when Berger nearly hit him entering a chicane, Damon said that it was the first time he'd heard an engine other than his own since the days when he raced motorcycles. Just a data point as to whether an F1 driver can hear the other engines... Dave Wilson

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> Not entirly.. you can hear them when they cross the start/finish line > and your in the pits.. thats quite realistic.. but if you could hear > others while driving, that means you would hear yourself and be deaf > :) > any news on the update anyone? > ________________________________________________________ > Paul Ryder http://www.u-net.com/~pry

Yes, you can hear the other cars drive by while YOUR in the pits. That is, until you speed out there to see who it was only to see NOONE! Pretty realistic huh? Just another coal in the fire. -DG

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> >>>... > >> Haha, you must be racing on rookie!(BIG grin) > >> No, really That statement was to dispute the fact that in real F1 cars > >> you can hear the other cars! > >> Another coal in the fire for GP2. Not being able to hear the other cars > >> IS quite unrealistic and still > >> convinces me of one other aspect of GP2 not being finished. > >>... > >A recent issue of OnTrack had an article on the final race of the F1 > >season. When asked about the early incident when Berger nearly hit > >him entering a chicane, Damon said that it was the first time he'd > >heard an engine other than his own since the days when he raced > >motorcycles. > >Just a data point as to whether an F1 driver can hear the other > >engines... > >Dave Wilson > I read a Nigel Mansell's interview three or four years ago. Nigel > talked about the difficulty to drive a F1 car under rain. He said that > when the track is really wet, when you're following another car and > are near to him, it's impossible to see anything due to the water > projected by other car's wheels. So, he said that the only way to > drive was to LISTEN TO THE OTHER CAR'S ENGINE, and change gear when > the other driver changes gear, and slow down when he slows down, and > speed up when he speeds up. It is obvious that at this moment, Nigel > and other pilots were hearing other cars' engines. It is not so far > away from now, and overall not so far from the season 1994 that > Microprose gave us in 1996 GP2 ;-) > Hope this'll help. > Emmanuel Manzini > .......aka 'Hey I drove a clean lap !' (probably the worst driver in > the world) > Please Mr Crammond, give us a GP2 patch for Xmas (1996...)

Hmmmmm, sounds like they can HEAR the other cars PRETTY DAMN WELL if they can FOLLOW and distincly HEAR the other drivers CHANGING GEARS! Any comments John W.? -DG

> > In most instances they (the drivers) can't hear the other cars. With earplugs(for hearing),sealed > > > with sound-resistant plugging, held in by surgical tape, covered with a balaclava, over the top of > > > which fits a coccoon of foam padding forming the thick lining of a helmet and with the noise of > > > their own engine screaming behind them, to hear another car is quite unusual. > > > -- Damn Bruce, what do you wear when driving to the supermarket? Diest saftey equipment?! Nice! Bottom line is no matter how much you "MUFFLE" a description of the equipment F1 drivers wear to protect their head, they have, and up until this point, CAN hear other cars, especially beside them! So how about this: F1 drivers CAN hear the other cars with "hollow" thin plastic earplugs/w light weight(.20 watt) foam paper speakers wich amplify ANY sound, held by fabricated tape that is attached at the neckline (NOT OVER the ear) and then cover by a lightweight "poris" foam covered by a lexan "vented" shell and with the "vibrated, muffle" of their engine BEHIND them to NOT hear another car is quite unusual. -DG

In most instances they (the drivers) can't hear the other cars. With earplugs(for hearing),sealed with sound-resistant plugging, held in by surgical tape, covered with a balaclava, over the top of which fits a coccoon of foam padding forming the thick lining of a helmet and with the noise of their own engine screaming behind them, to hear another car is quite unusual. --

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> > A recent issue of OnTrack had an article on the final race of the F1 > > season. When asked about the early incident when Berger nearly hit > > him entering a chicane, Damon said that it was the first time he'd > > heard an engine other than his own since the days when he raced > > motorcycles. > > Just a data point as to whether an F1 driver can hear the other > > engines... > In most instances they (the drivers) can't hear the other cars. With earplugs(for hearing),sealed > with sound-resistant plugging, held in by surgical tape, covered with a balaclava, over the top of > which fits a coccoon of foam padding forming the thick lining of a helmet and with the noise of > their own engine screaming behind them, to hear another car is quite unusual. > --

Bravo!!! I would conclude it does happen, but it is "UNUSUAL"!!! -- "Feel Lucky, Scubaboy?" - Discovery Channel, Shark Week, 1995

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>> >> It is obvious that at this moment, Nigel > >> and other pilots were hearing other cars' engines. It is not so far > >> away from now, and overall not so far from the season 1994 that > >> Microprose gave us in 1996 GP2 ;-) > >> Hope this'll help. > >Hmmmmm, sounds like they can HEAR the other cars PRETTY DAMN WELL if > >they can FOLLOW and distincly HEAR > >the other drivers CHANGING GEARS! Any comments John W.? -DG

"The all-knowing God of rev limiters, Jo Helsen wrote(grin): Joe, do you seriously think by lowering the revs the cars get louder and are clearer to hear? Or I know, maybe the rain has an effect on the acoustics of a formula 1 engine!! -The intreped DG "There were two paths and yes I took the one most traveled on, why? Because it had an escalator and I love rides!" -DG 1996

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> David, > If you find it your personal responsibility to divide GP2 into molecule-sized > particles, then complain to MICROPROSE, and waste MICROPROSE bandwidth instead > of ours. > A deal? > Jo

I dont consider no-sound or unacceptable modem link, or insufficient game engine "molecule" size. Evidently you do and now I understand why you reply to my posts. I can tell you are the kind of person who accepts anything the market will throw at you. I on the other hand have a different philosophy, I give the best in my work and therefore demand the best. I hope that instead of "sticking" up for something that is far from complete you will protest that it only get better. If everyone settled for half-ass the next decade would move just as slow as the "drugged" out 70's and technology would crawl! Your reply takes up just as much bandwith as my post. I dont think theres a small supply of bandwith here so I'll take that remark with a grain of salt, almost as much as the rest of your ridiculous reply. Look at it this way, Would you pay top dollar for a Porshe and then find out that it had no AC, the windows didnt roll down and the heater was stuck on high and you lived in Florida! No the car would not be complete, just as they priced GP2 at around 55 bucks and it is FAR from complete. -DG

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> > > A recent issue of OnTrack had an article on the final race of the F1 > > > season. When asked about the early incident when Berger nearly hit > > > him entering a chicane, Damon said that it was the first time he'd > > > heard an engine other than his own since the days when he raced > > > motorcycles. > > > Just a data point as to whether an F1 driver can hear the other > > > engines... > > In most instances they (the drivers) can't hear the other cars. With earplugs(for hearing),sealed > > with sound-resistant plugging, held in by surgical tape, covered with a balaclava, over the top of > > which fits a coccoon of foam padding forming the thick lining of a helmet and with the noise of > > their own engine screaming behind them, to hear another car is quite unusual. > > -- > Bravo!!! > I would conclude it does happen, but it is "UNUSUAL"!!!

So, in the name of realism, it should be possible to hear other cars in GP2 but it'd be 'unusual' ... IMO Sir Geoff never even thought about it. GP1 didn't feature sounds of other cars, so it was only natural that GP2 doesn't either ... -- Henrikki (Hena) Hakkanen Tel. +358-(9)0-345 5538 ------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 -------- -------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are mine and does not necessarily reflect those of my employer!

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:53:50 GMT, "Henrikki (Hena) H?kk?nen" appen, but it is "UNUSUAL"!!! Not entirly.. you can hear them when they cross the start/finish line and your in the pits.. thats quite realistic.. but if you could hear others while driving, that means you would hear yourself and be deaf :) any news on the update anyone? ________________________________________________________ Paul Ryder http://www.u-net.com/~pry

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>>>... >> Haha, you must be racing on rookie!(BIG grin) >> No, really That statement was to dispute the fact that in real F1 cars >> you can hear the other cars! >> Another coal in the fire for GP2. Not being able to hear the other cars >> IS quite unrealistic and still >> convinces me of one other aspect of GP2 not being finished. >>... >A recent issue of OnTrack had an article on the final race of the F1 >season. When asked about the early incident when Berger nearly hit >him entering a chicane, Damon said that it was the first time he'd >heard an engine other than his own since the days when he raced >motorcycles. >Just a data point as to whether an F1 driver can hear the other >engines... >Dave Wilson

I read a Nigel Mansell's interview three or four years ago. Nigel talked about the difficulty to drive a F1 car under rain. He said that when the track is really wet, when you're following another car and are near to him, it's impossible to see anything due to the water projected by other car's wheels. So, he said that the only way to drive was to LISTEN TO THE OTHER CAR'S ENGINE, and change gear when the other driver changes gear, and slow down when he slows down, and speed up when he speeds up. It is obvious that at this moment, Nigel and other pilots were hearing other cars' engines. It is not so far away from now, and overall not so far from the season 1994 that Microprose gave us in 1996 GP2 ;-) Hope this'll help. Emmanuel Manzini .......aka 'Hey I drove a clean lap !' (probably the worst driver in the world) Please Mr Crammond, give us a GP2 patch for Xmas (1996...)

On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:52:51 -0500, David Gary >> >A recent issue of OnTrack had an article on the final race of the F1 >> >season. When asked about the early incident when Berger nearly hit >> >him entering a chicane, Damon said that it was the first time he'd >> >heard an engine other than his own since the days when he raced >> >motorcycles. Damon *actually* said it was the first time he'd heard an engine *like that* since when he raced motorbikes. I think he was referring to note of the engine when Berger tried to come up alongside him - ie high hevs, followed by quick braking. F1 cars don't often come that close at corners, unlike bikes! == n

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>> I read a Nigel Mansell's interview three or four years ago. Nigel >> talked about the difficulty to drive a F1 car under rain. He said that >> when the track is really wet, when you're following another car and >> are near to him, it's impossible to see anything due to the water >> projected by other car's wheels. So, he said that the only way to >> drive was to LISTEN TO THE OTHER CAR'S ENGINE, and change gear when >> the other driver changes gear, and slow down when he slows down, and >> speed up when he speeds up. It is obvious that at this moment, Nigel >> and other pilots were hearing other cars' engines. It is not so far >> away from now, and overall not so far from the season 1994 that >> Microprose gave us in 1996 GP2 ;-) >> Hope this'll help. >> Emmanuel Manzini >> .......aka 'Hey I drove a clean lap !' (probably the worst driver in >> the world) >> Please Mr Crammond, give us a GP2 patch for Xmas (1996...) >Hmmmmm, sounds like they can HEAR the other cars PRETTY DAMN WELL if >they can FOLLOW and distincly HEAR >the other drivers CHANGING GEARS! Any comments John W.? -DG

Obviously, revs are not nearly as high during a wet race. Might be part of an explanation??? Jo =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The most civilized civilizations are as close to barba- rism as polished iron is to rust. Rivarol =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>> Not entirly.. you can hear them when they cross the start/finish line >> and your in the pits.. thats quite realistic.. but if you could hear >> others while driving, that means you would hear yourself and be deaf >> :) >> any news on the update anyone? >> ________________________________________________________ >> Paul Ryder http://www.u-net.com/~pry >Yes, you can hear the other cars drive by while YOUR in the pits. That >is, until you speed out there to see who it was only to see NOONE! >Pretty realistic huh? Just another coal in the fire. -DG

David, If you find it your personal responsibility to divide GP2 into molecule-sized particles, then complain to MICROPROSE, and waste MICROPROSE bandwidth instead of ours. A deal? Jo PS: Does anyone have a spare killfile left? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The most civilized civilizations are as close to barba- rism as polished iron is to rust. Rivarol =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

No, but your car get quieter. Sit down in your living room and put your stero speakers to either side of you and turn it as loud as it goes. Then have someone turn on another stero a few feet away from you and tell me which one you hear. But turn them both down low and you can hear both of them.

If they were present, I'm sure you would be creative enough to find *other* so called flaws. They aren't flaws in my opinion. They are *choices* that have been made for whatever reason. You cant' expect to have everything. (I'm not talking about the link here, as I haven't tested that) If something is *good* and worth the price, I value it accordingly instead of concentrating on things that could possibly be better. You have a rather sad life if you can't help but doing the latter......... Well, as far as I'm concerned GP2 IS the best. I have the impression that you only settle for the *perfect*. Make that "perfect in *your* opinion". That is not reasonable. Nothing will ever be perfect, so there's always something to whine about. And whining is the last thing that will inspire the programmers to improve a follow-up. Why don't you try to ballance positive and negative comments? People wouldn't even TRY to invent anything any more if they knew that the slightest imperfection would be blown up to the size of an african elephant. We need a POSITIVE approach. (sigh) Nothing is perfect. There's always *something* left to desire (luckily there is). Be happy with what you get: definitely the most realistic simulation on the market. And not even an expensive one. Anyway. I just sent my reply because I think you have HAD your chance to complain. We know it by now, you don't have to KEEP hammering it in. Put a webpage together! Open your own forum alt.complaining.with.david.gary or something.... Jo =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The most civilized civilizations are as close to barba- rism as polished iron is to rust. Rivarol =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

the great and "only considering interpretations that suit his theory" David Gary >"The all-knowing God of rev limiters, Jo Helsen wrote(grin): I'm flattered, thank you very much indeed! <G> Why didn't you consider the other consequence: as you can't let your OWN engine rev as high, it might be easier to hear the others. Jo =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The most civilized civilizations are as close to barba- rism as polished iron is to rust. Rivarol =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

This is my 2p worth as every one else gives theirs. Get yourself a copy of the 1988 season review. Listen to Alan Prost. He describes driving in the wet. He says it is dangerous because you can not see at all when you are close behind another car. He says he brakes when he HEARS the other car get closer! OK this is fact ANYONE can buy this vid and see this. So I belive you can hear them to an extent. But not too loud as as Paul Ryder States you may go deaf! So the ideal situation would be to haver it as a switchable option. No car sounds for the belivers of Damon (good but nothing special) or on for Belivers of Alan Prost (One of the all time greats.. in most peoples top 5) Tris

I believe Damon Hill mentioned he had heard Berger's engine when he almost clipped him in the chicane. It was low speed, though, don't know whether they'll hear anything besides their own engine when going +200 miles....

[...] The wind? -- Ulrich

Just adding a few cents to the total amount :)... Can the drivers hear their own engines? I believe some drivers change (or *used to change* before the rev lights) gears by listening to their revs. How much would their own engine noises distract the other sounds at high speeds especially, you'd have to be a racer to know that, right? But in lower revs, the thing is probably quite different. Races in the rain are driven with considerable caution & slower, so when you're braking, you aren't going very fast & you could hear the engines like Prost said. I don't know the comment aout Damon not hearing the engines, but they wouldn't have to exclude each other, it could depend on the speed & the conditions the cars are going. Seppo