For Papyrus...Future Projects ?

Was hoping Jim or some of the other papyrus staff might let us in on some of the future projects you guys have in store. After all is wrapped up with Nascar II, what's next on the Papyrus agenda. I would like to say that Indy Car Racing II is still my favorite Sim (Rendition Version), you guys really outdid yourself with this one in my opinion. Was curious if you guys are going to follow up with multiplayer add-on / more rendition tracks or if you'll be starting work on ICR3 ;) I think some of this has been rehashed several times, but I think a lot of us fans sincerely want to be filled in on what we can expect from you guys in the long term and short term... Thanks ! ------ August Branchesi Systems Programmer / Apex Marketing Group http://members.visi.net/~muja

Quoted text (19 lines)

> Was hoping Jim or some of the other papyrus staff might let us in on some > of the future projects you guys have in store. After all is wrapped up > with Nascar II, what's next on the Papyrus agenda. > I would like to say that Indy Car Racing II is still my favorite Sim > (Rendition Version), you guys really outdid yourself with this one in my > opinion. Was curious if you guys are going to follow up with multiplayer > add-on / more rendition tracks or if you'll be starting work on ICR3 ;) > I think some of this has been rehashed several times, but I think a lot of > us fans sincerely want to be filled in on what we can expect from you guys > in the long term and short term... > Thanks ! > ------ > August Branchesi > Systems Programmer / Apex Marketing Group > http://members.visi.net/~muja

Actually they are supposedly working a 1960s grand prix sim according to some articles in a few magazines. -- The wise man can pick up a grain of sand and envision a whole universe, but the stupid man will just lay down on some seaweed and roll around until he's completely draped in it. Then he'll stand up and go, "Hey, I'm Vine Man." Jack Handey. GO #2!

> Was hoping Jim or some of the other papyrus staff might let us in on some > of the future projects you guys have in store. After all is wrapped up > with Nascar II, what's next on the Papyrus agenda. I can say a few things about this, but in general, I'm not in a position to say anything and not get my backside chewed on for it... Now that we've been purchased by Sierra, this is one of your wishes that will come true. Papyrus had a history of keeping things tightly under wraps until we were just about ready to roll out a product. Sierra has a history of long pre-announcements. So, if you want a heads-up on what's going on, Sierra's going to do you well... Sierra publishes a magazine, Interaction, (approx quarterly?) that provides you with information on current products, new releases, and future products. (Now, it's a captive magazine, so there are tons of ads and order forms and whatnot, but it's also a free mazagine, so you've just gotta put up with that...) I think you get subscribed auto-magically by buying and registering Sierra games (ie N2). As another poster said, Sierra has announced that we're working on a historical F1 simulator. I've pretty much said that we're working on NASCAR 3, when I asked for feature wish-lists to be sent to public, so I can't comment on any other projects going forward. What we have in the pipeline, with the people we have working for us, the budgets that we've been alotted, should make this next batch of Papyrus products the best ever. I'm not trying to sound like a company rah-rah droid, that's honestly what I think... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

> One wish I would like to ask for, that would make Papyrus sims just a > bit more realistic, would be to allow the brakes to lockup as they do > in GP2. I really enjoy Papyrus sims, but I think that the way the brakes > work now is one of the last things in the game that still feel a bit > unrealistic and if that could be fixed it would really improve the > suspension of disbelief in the sims for me. In due time my friend. All I ask is that you print out the above paragraph, so that when we do make it more realistic, you realize that that's what you asked for. Driving a racing car at speed IS difficult, no doubt... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Jim, I am very much looking forward to the 60's Grand Prix sim, and I think that many of us out here will really love to replay some of the racing battles that we grew up on and which actually made us the car racing fans we are today. One wish I would like to ask for, that would make Papyrus sims just a bit more realistic, would be to allow the brakes to lockup as they do in GP2. I really enjoy Papyrus sims, but I think that the way the brakes work now is one of the last things in the game that still feel a bit unrealistic and if that could be fixed it would really improve the suspension of disbelief in the sims for me. Some of us actually race Watkins Glen and Sears Point a great part of the time, and on those tracks the mushy ABS brakes seem jump out at you. Anyhow, great job on Nascar 2. I really like the improve driving model despite my pickiness about the brakes <G>, and the opponent AI feels a lot more realistic too. Can't wait to race A.J. Foyt, Jackie Stewart and Mario in your next sim. Cheers. --John -- Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. ------------------------------+-------------------------- Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

Hmm, I'd like to see a Truck Racing or BGN sim. If not they could make an adon prog, with all the BGN and or Truck Tracks and an update to the cars to choose between the Nascar cars and the Supertruck trucks, w/an updated paintkit. THAT would be my replacement for Daytona, but don't get me wrong, they can still make Daytona :) --Keith

How about a World of Outlaw Sim. I believe TNN will be televising about 8 races for the 1997 season? Seems this type of close open wheel racing is finally getting some attention by the networks.

Quoted text (10 lines)

> Hmm, I'd like to see a Truck Racing or BGN sim. > If not they could make an adon prog, with all the BGN and or Truck > Tracks and an update to the cars to choose between the Nascar cars and > the Supertruck trucks, w/an updated paintkit. > THAT would be my replacement for Daytona, but don't get me wrong, they > can still make Daytona :) > --Keith

>How about a World of Outlaw Sim. I believe TNN will be televising about 8 >races for the 1997 season? Seems this type of close open wheel racing is >finally getting some attention by the networks. I augree! that would be fun sliding your car into the corners. It would be really cool if effects like dirt building up on the visor were included as well. You'd have to have flips though! John -- Winners never quit, quiters never win

Yes, I second a Sprint Car Sim!! A Sprint car is the most exciting race car to drive in reality so I can only assume the sim would be great. BTW, The WOO season kicks off in Phoenix Arizona in Jan at Manzantia Speedway. This is televised on TNN on a Friday night live. This is a 'home track' for us so we may have a shot at a top 10. Regards, ---Wayne

Quoted text (20 lines)

> How about a World of Outlaw Sim. I believe TNN will be televising about 8 > races for the 1997 season? Seems this type of close open wheel racing is > finally getting some attention by the networks. > > Hmm, I'd like to see a Truck Racing or BGN sim. > > If not they could make an adon prog, with all the BGN and or Truck > > Tracks and an update to the cars to choose between the Nascar cars and > > the Supertruck trucks, w/an updated paintkit. > > THAT would be my replacement for Daytona, but don't get me wrong, they > > can still make Daytona :) > > --Keith

writes: Not only that, but they've also got another card up their sleeve... ;) Best Regards, Marc 'L8BRKR' Nelson Sim Racing News - USA

Quoted text (11 lines)

> writes: > >Actually they are supposedly working a 1960s grand prix sim according to > >some articles in a few magazines. > Not only that, but they've also got another card up their sleeve... ;) > Best Regards, > Marc 'L8BRKR' Nelson > Sim Racing News - USA

Oh boy, a 1960's racing sim......Surely they've got more imagination at Papyrus then that. There are soooo many different racing venues to simulate.

Quoted text (12 lines)

>> One wish I would like to ask for, that would make Papyrus sims just a >> bit more realistic, would be to allow the brakes to lockup as they do >> in GP2. I really enjoy Papyrus sims, but I think that the way the brakes >> work now is one of the last things in the game that still feel a bit >> unrealistic and if that could be fixed it would really improve the >> suspension of disbelief in the sims for me. >In due time my friend. All I ask is that you print out the above >paragraph, so that when we do make it more realistic, you realize that >that's what you asked for. >Driving a racing car at speed IS difficult, no doubt...

Jim, I've stored away John's post & your response for future evidence <g>. I for one am looking forward to you making future sims as realistic as possible. Although marketing wise, it might be a good idea to allow those with less of a taste for realism to have the option of selecting a slightly more "arcade" style sim. Cheers, Richard

Hell I thought that's what N-2 was!!, at least it has the BUGS of a 60's program. SG

On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:29:55 -0800, Jeff Hedges >Oh boy, a 1960's racing sim......Surely they've got more imagination at >Papyrus then that. There are soooo many different racing venues to >simulate. Hey, don't knock it, I think its a great idea! Of course, it would be even better if we could have F1 + Can-Am + Trans-Am + F5000, etc. of the 1960s. Maybe Papyrus' new driving model (being developed for the '60s F1 sim) and this sim can lead to this... Still hoping for ICR3, though... Pick one or more: Model Rockets (competition-NERCB) / PCs (even Atari!) / Papyrus ICR-ICR2-NCR / Who needs a life when you have multiple non-lives?

} I've pretty much said that we're working on }NASCAR 3, when I asked for feature wish-lists to be sent to How about letting us program in our own spotter/crew chief voices. That way we can shorten down the "car low" ot "all clear" to something really short. Too many times in N2 I get the all clear and then run into a car that is beside me. I can only attribute this to the length of the message being too long and not enought time for the spotter to tell me a car is there. () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club

} I've pretty much said that we're working on }NASCAR 3, when I asked for feature wish-lists to be sent to }public, so I can't comment on any other projects going forward. I think a fun option in NASCAR 3 would be to choose car or truck. () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club

}I've pretty much said that we're working on }NASCAR 3, when I asked for feature wish-lists to be sent to How about letting us use an arcade mode where setup wouldn't matter. We'd get the drag, traction, and power settings the AI cars use. This would be nice to use to show off the game to friends as well as use as a "breather from reality". () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club

Quoted text (11 lines)

> I've pretty much said that we're working on > NASCAR 3, when I asked for feature wish-lists to be sent to > public, so I can't comment on any other projects going forward. > What we have in the pipeline, with the people we have working for us, > the budgets that we've been alotted, should make this next batch of > Papyrus products the best ever. I'm not trying to sound like a company > rah-rah droid, that's honestly what I think... > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Why don't you finish Nascar 2 before you start worrying about Nascar 3? If you think N2 is finished - guess again. What we got for our money is very close to a crippled demo. No game save capability, features explained in the manual that aren't there, and it's full of bugs! You've made a great start; you've got our Christmas dollars; now finish it! Rick

It must be real fun being a popular game developer. It was obvious this would happen. First they get the mob screaming for the game to come out, then the mob screaming they should have waited. N2 isn't perfect, but it's pretty neat. bob

I agree, I think the game is pretty cool too. Is there a list of known bugs? I was at http://www.sierra.com/papyrus and then clicked on support but was unable to find a bug list. Can someone please reply with their bug list. Curtis J. Matz

Quoted text (18 lines)

> I agree, I think the game is pretty cool too. Is there a list of known > bugs? I was at http://www.sierra.com/papyrus and then clicked on support > but was unable to find a bug list. Can someone please reply with their bug > list. > Curtis J. Matz > > It must be real fun being a popular game developer. It was obvious > > this would happen. First they get the mob screaming for the game to come > > out, then the mob screaming they should have waited. > > N2 isn't perfect, but it's pretty neat. > > bob

Papyrus doesnt publish bugs... Only the beta testers know that stuff don

Rick, nice to see another new user on RAS! Either that our you are just too blind or stupid to read previous posts! Jim Sokoloff, is developing Nascar 3 as per his posts! He was involved in Nascar Racing for the Play Station, no where have I seen him post that he is actively involved in Nascar 2! There are many coders that are still working on fixes to Nascar2 perhaps your un-educated answers will improve in the future! Some of us appreciate the fact that he is involving this news group in things we would like to see in the future so that we don't end up with the ***ing and complaining. In case you don't realise these products take a couple of years to develope and when we do get a chance to have some say, then we get to listen to you instead ranting at the wrong person! Yes, there are bugs and there are problems with Nas2 but perhaps complaining to the right person might be more useful! Regards

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > I've pretty much said that we're working on > Why don't you finish Nascar 2 before you start worrying about Nascar 3? > If you think N2 is finished - guess again. What we got for our money is > very close to a crippled demo. No game save capability, features > explained in the manual that aren't there, and it's full of bugs! > You've made a great start; you've got our Christmas dollars; now finish > it! > Rick

Quoted text (13 lines)

> Rick, nice to see another new user on RAS! Either that our you are just too > blind or stupid to read previous posts! Jim Sokoloff, is developing Nascar 3 as per > his posts! He was involved in Nascar Racing for the Play Station, no where have I > seen him post that he is actively involved in Nascar 2! There are many coders that > are still working on fixes to Nascar2 perhaps your un-educated answers will improve > in the future! Some of us appreciate the fact that he is involving this news group > in things we would like to see in the future so that we don't end up with the ***ing > and complaining. In case you don't realise these products take a couple of years to > develope and when we do get a chance to have some say, then we get to listen to you > instead ranting at the wrong person! Yes, there are bugs and there are problems with > Nas2 but perhaps complaining to the right person might be more useful! > Regards

Hello Pete, Nice to hear from another RAS reader. I'm just writing to let you know that I am neither blind nor stupid, and have been reading these posts since I bought Nascar 1 last summer. If you will check page 204 of the Nascar 2 manual (PC version) you will find the name Jim Sokoloff in the credits for the game and in the on-screen credits at the end of the game. Also, according to Dejanews Mr. Sokoloff has posted 56 messages here on RAS since December 1st, with the majority of them related to the PC version of the game. Jim's posts are very useful and informative, and I appreciate his involvement in the newsgroup. My post was addressed to Jim, but directed at Sierra/Papyrus as well. If you know the name of the "right person" to complain to, please post it here on RAS. As for my "ranting at the wrong person", if you would re-read my original post you will find that I: 1. Gave Jim/Sierra/Papyrus a compliment on the game so far 2. Gave them my money 3. Expressed my wishes for what needs to be done If you don't care for my blind, stupid, ***ing, complaining, ranting posts please add my name to your kill file. Merry Christmas Rick

On Wed, 25 Dec 1996 02:34:20 +0000, Rick Fisk >> [flaming Rick deleted] >My post was addressed to Jim, but >directed at Sierra/Papyrus as well. If you know the name of the "right >person" to complain to, please post it here on RAS. The "right person" to address constructive comments to regarding NASCAR 2 is Adam Levesque. As the credits indicate, he was the producer of the product. For Sierra direct order comments, you'll have to contact the Sierra offices out West, as all of that business is handled at the corp level, and not at Papyrus. Adam can't help you with that anymore than I can. I'm not currently working on NASCAR 2 (I was one of many "pinch-hitters" during the late stages of development, and am now on another project.) My goal is to make that other project the best that it can be when it comes out. If asked by Papyrus management, I'll go work on something in NASCAR 2 again for the patch(es). The feedback I was asking for was what to include in future racing sims, as I have some direct impact on that. The response you gave related solely to NASCAR 2, and Pete reacted to that. I know NASCAR 2 isn't perfect, but I'm proud of the work the rest of the team did on the product (I'm not claiming much credit for anything in the game, but I'll accept my full share of blame for rough edges.) We are working on some important fixes, and they will be released as soon as they are done, and we've had a chance to test them. I can't comment on what is and isn't getting fixed in the first round of patches or when they'll be available, but I can assure you that the patch for NASCAR 2 is not getting the same treatment as ICR 2 got. ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

<snip> : I know NASCAR 2 isn't perfect, but I'm proud of the work the rest of : the team did on the product (I'm not claiming much credit for anything : in the game, but I'll accept my full share of blame for rough edges.) : We are working on some important fixes, and they will be released as : soon as they are done, and we've had a chance to test them. I can't : comment on what is and isn't getting fixed in the first round of : patches or when they'll be available, but I can assure you that the : patch for NASCAR 2 is not getting the same treatment as ICR 2 got. And rightly so. You all should be proud! I am thoroughly enjoying NASCAR2, (flaws 'n all). There have been some major strides over NASCAR1. Some of which were borrowed from ICR2 and some which improve over it. I'm afraid that some of these improvements are too subtle for the majority of the users to recognize. I am very impressed in the improvement of the "car-handling". I can almost feel the car settling in to a turn. Watkins Glen is a great example of this. The car doesn't just "slide" into the next turn. I can sense the weight shifting and the tires/shocks just beginning to take hold. Great job! The AI has been greatly enhanced in their ability to do "close" racing. They still aren't perfect, but hey they are robots not humans. Last night I did a 33% race against 100% AI at the Glen. For laps Ricky Rudd and I were in a heated battle. I kept following close on his tail, just waiting for the perfect time to make a move. I would slip underneath him coming through Turn 11 (AI have trouble taking this corner right). We would drag-race down past the start/finish line. I would head for the inside of Turn 1 and Ricky would take the outside, door by door. He would pass, I would follow for a couple more laps. I get under him going into Turn 10 and cook right up to turn 1. I end up going in too hot and Ricky would slide right under me. A couple more laps of my dogging his bumper and I brave a pass going into the inner loop. I'm a little loose going through, but Ricky lays back so as not to get into me. Comes up on the outside while we go through Turn 9. But here the AI programming slips and instead of keeping his outside line he decides to pin me to the right-hand guard rail. Sure, I'm pissed. But, hey, I haven't experienced this kinda racing against a computer before. I'll just be more careful next time (and hope that you guys work on cleaning up some of these rough AI edges). I love the curbs in the Glen. Sure would be nice to have them in IndyCar Racing 3 (hint, hint). Yeh, I know you are working on NASCAR3. Just pass the word along. Thanks for a great job and look forward to timely fixes to NASCAR2. Also thanks again for braving the unruly world of usenet and keeping us posted! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Quoted text (53 lines)

> <snip> > : I know NASCAR 2 isn't perfect, but I'm proud of the work the rest of > : the team did on the product (I'm not claiming much credit for anything > : in the game, but I'll accept my full share of blame for rough edges.) > : We are working on some important fixes, and they will be released as > : soon as they are done, and we've had a chance to test them. I can't > : comment on what is and isn't getting fixed in the first round of > : patches or when they'll be available, but I can assure you that the > : patch for NASCAR 2 is not getting the same treatment as ICR 2 got. > And rightly so. You all should be proud! I am thoroughly enjoying > NASCAR2, (flaws 'n all). There have been some major strides over > NASCAR1. Some of which were borrowed from ICR2 and some which improve > over it. I'm afraid that some of these improvements are too subtle for > the majority of the users to recognize. I am very impressed in the > improvement of the "car-handling". I can almost feel the car settling > in to a turn. Watkins Glen is a great example of this. The car doesn't > just "slide" into the next turn. I can sense the weight shifting and > the tires/shocks just beginning to take hold. Great job! > The AI has been greatly enhanced in their ability to do "close" racing. > They still aren't perfect, but hey they are robots not humans. Last > night I did a 33% race against 100% AI at the Glen. For laps Ricky Rudd > and I were in a heated battle. I kept following close on his tail, just > waiting for the perfect time to make a move. I would slip underneath > him coming through Turn 11 (AI have trouble taking this corner right). > We would drag-race down past the start/finish line. I would head for > the inside of Turn 1 and Ricky would take the outside, door by door. He > would pass, I would follow for a couple more laps. I get under him going > into Turn 10 and cook right up to turn 1. I end up going in too hot and > Ricky would slide right under me. A couple more laps of my dogging his > bumper and I brave a pass going into the inner loop. I'm a little loose > going through, but Ricky lays back so as not to get into me. Comes up on > the outside while we go through Turn 9. But here the AI programming slips > and instead of keeping his outside line he decides to pin me to the > right-hand guard rail. Sure, I'm pissed. But, hey, I haven't experienced > this kinda racing against a computer before. I'll just be more careful > next time (and hope that you guys work on cleaning up some of these rough > AI edges). > I love the curbs in the Glen. Sure would be nice to have them in IndyCar > Racing 3 (hint, hint). Yeh, I know you are working on NASCAR3. Just > pass the word along. > Thanks for a great job and look forward to timely fixes to NASCAR2. > Also thanks again for braving the unruly world of usenet and keeping us > posted! > -- > **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I'd like to second your comments about the excellent handling characteristics in N2. Yes, you can almost feel the weight transfer. It really seems to me like the computer is calculating the physocs more frequently, but I don't know if this is the case or not. Also, and I haven't seen this mentioned before, but i seems like the sensation of speed is MUCH greater in N2. I know when I switch back to N1 for a Hawaii race it feels like I'm going so slow, whereas in N2 everything seems to happen quickly. About the AI, I have also noticed that when they get almost past you they move into your line, as if they think they are already past. I don't know whether to call this a bug or not. Perhaps, having gotten by, they expect you to yield. I know I have taken to backing off if a car passes me on the inside but hasn't gotten clear as we exit. I am impressed when adjusting to a computer games idiosincrasies (sp?) doesn't automatically give me an "inside edge." -- Ed

it!<<< Tell them Rick, I'll back ya 100%. That's 90% more than than this game is. SG

You're right, they SELL THEM. SG

Here's a copy of an e-mail I sent to Jim Sokoloff regarding the N3 wish list. Are my sentiments on target, or are the N2 bunch and the GP2/ICR2 bunch of different minds when setup options are concerned? Greetings, I just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth. Great job on N2, I consider it a huge improvement in driving fun over N1. As far as my wish list, I'll confine it to the garage area. The simulation would improve 100%, in my eyes, with more freedom in changing the car settings. I would like to see the "shocks" setting broken up into separate adjustments for "springs" and "damping." Specifically, the low speed compression and rebound damping settings. These settings drastically effect the precieved driving feel of the car and would add immensely to the overall satisfaction of the simulation. Also, the ability to adjust the sway bar and panhard rod would be a real benefit to the game. I would also like to have the stagger adjustment back, though I assume you deleted it because of the rules in the real NASCAR series. I know that the adjustment I've mentioned would, most likely, make the driving model you use very complex. I feel, however, that the setup options should be the area overhauled in N3. The differences between N1 and N2 are teriffic, but it seems that the garage was left out. Creating as accurate a driving model as possible, I believe, should be one of, if not THE highest concern for future versions on Papyrus racing games. I hope that you find my suggestions helpful and that they are already included in the planning for N3. My feelings are the same for any future versions of IndyCar Racing. Sincerely, Chris Cavin

| The feedback I | was asking for was what to include in future racing sims, as I have | some direct impact on that. Indycar, Indycar, Indycar!!! Don't give up the Indycar line! Sierra once claimed (and sort of proved, with their treatment of ICR2 customers starting around this time last year) that they had no interest in continuing the Indycar line, but as we've seen, things can change, and I hope this is one of them. First off, please do an Indycar port to PSX (Sony Playstation). NASCAR for playstation is a lot more fun than it was on my 486dx100, and with NASCAR by Papy, F-1 by Psygnosis, and then ICR, all for PSX, I'd basically never have to upgrade my computer! $150 for a playstation instead of $2500 for a computer is not a bad alternative. Fact is, everybody and their brother is working on F1 sims. But there simply isn't anyone else I know of with any good Indy sims- Andretti Racing just didn't cut it for me. Papy had the market, it seems a little crazy to just let it slide. | patches or when they'll be available, but I can assure you that the | patch for NASCAR 2 is not getting the same treatment as ICR 2 got. Hey Jim- in all the junk over the ICR2 stuff, I basically repressed the whole mess and never went ahead and returned my CD (original ICR2 CD) for the upgraded one, as Rick Genter had promised. Is the options still available?

> How about a World of Outlaw Sim. I believe TNN will be televising about 8 > races for the 1997 season? Seems this type of close open wheel racing is > finally getting some attention by the networks. I'd be waiting with my $50 for them if they decided to get this one out. Brian Kinkaid, who counts the days until the 1997 Knoxville Nationals bnk29 on Hawaii

I would pay $100 for this without a second thought. Brian, Knoxville is awesome! Be sure to check out TNN on the night of the 30th. The Outlaws season opener from Manzanita in Phoneix, AZ is live! Regards, ---Wayne. > > How about a World of Outlaw Sim. I believe TNN will be televising about 8 > > races for the 1997 season? Seems this type of close open wheel racing is

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > finally getting some attention by the networks. > I'd be waiting with my $50 for them if they decided to get this one out. > Brian Kinkaid, who counts the days until the 1997 Knoxville Nationals > bnk29 on Hawaii

>Hey Jim- in all the junk over the ICR2 stuff, I basically repressed >the whole mess and never went ahead and returned my CD (original ICR2 >CD) for the upgraded one, as Rick Genter had promised. Is the options >still available? I have no idea. (In fact, I had my head down through the whole ICR2 thing [working on NASCAR for PlayStation kept me busy enough...]) Have to tell you: contact Sierra Customer Support... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

: Here's a copy of an e-mail I sent to Jim Sokoloff regarding : the N3 wish list. Are my sentiments on target, or are the : N2 bunch and the GP2/ICR2 bunch of different minds when setup : options are concerned? <snipped suggestions for more garage setup options> I agree, this is one area that can be expanded/upgraded for a future NASCAR release. However, they need to be careful and make sure they can create a product that can be as "complicated" and "in-depth" as the "hardest" sim die-hard could want it and still allow it to be simple enough for the the mechanically challenged. I do think that Crammond did a pretty good job on this front with the 3 different levels of setup for GP2. In order for some of these finer adjustments to really make alot of sense, I think Papyrus needs to add other elements to the sim. We need variable track conditions (changing grooves during the race, weather changes during the race), thus calling for minor/major adjustments in the pits. It would be nice to be able to tinker with fine chassis adjustments, but if the track conditions stay the same from 1st practice to the final lap of the race. . . I want to be forced to have a *** taken out or in during the race (hey, cut that out, I'm talking about the springs here <g>). I want to be forced to try all of the tweakings I hear about during the races. Maybe a little less tape on the front since it's heating up? But without varying track conditions, I'm not sure that all of these garage tweakings are really that important. Okay, now we have more garage/pit settings to worry about. How about adding a "chief-mechanic wizard"? The driver says the car is fine going into the turns and fine coming out, but it pushes in the middle. The "wizard" then recommends different things to change. Of course, next we will want a separate engine development team, and a opportunity to create different chassis designs. . . Heck this will be like the real evolution of NASCAR. Pretty soon the days of Fireball Roberts will be replaced by Penske/Hendrick/Roush/ organizations and the little guy won't be able to "sim-race" any more. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Yes, I like the idea of having a wizard to recommend things to change. But how about a spotter/crew cheif that points out wether your loose going into the turns or looks like you're lacking acceleration coming out of the turns. Or pushing in the middle, etc. I have a hard time trying to figure out if my car is loose or tight. I know sometimes when it is overly loose as the back end will spin around. But when it is close to being neutral, the car just seems to jump around or squeak and then not squeak the tires. Speaking of setup changes...I need to know what is the best amount to change each setting to see an effect. Shocks in increments of 1%, 5%, 10%, 25%? Spoiler in increments of 1%, 5%, 10%? Air Pressure in increments of 1, 2, 5, 10 psi? Wedge in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs? Fr-rr bais in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs? Left-Right bias in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs? --- () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club

Jim, I would like to see an IRL update to Indycar 2. This would include all the IRL tracks as well as the new IRL chasis, but would also include everything in icr2 or would be backwards compatible. I want to be able to race my CART Indycar on all the IRL tracks if I want to. I hate the IRL, but I want their tracks. Another option would be a game with an Indycar career mode. You can start with a certain budget, depending on if you are going the "easy" "medium" or "hard" level. You could start with an Indylights car, and race their schedule, and get a shot at the CART series based on your performance. It would have maybe a choice of offers from differnt teams, ranging from a seat with Penske to a small limited budget team, depending on the diffculty level you pick and your performance in Indy lights. This would also randomly distribute the quality of cars and engines from year to year, maybe the Penske was *** this year, but next year the Reynard / Honda is better. Maybe I could find sponsorship and start my own team, maybe even build my own car and enter into an engine development program. Basically, I want money management and career options. Similar to a combination of Indycar2 and grand Prix manager. Mike

Quoted text (9 lines)

> Jim, > I would like to see an IRL update to Indycar 2. This would include all > the IRL tracks as well as the new IRL chasis, but would also include > everything in icr2 or would be backwards compatible. I want to be able > to race my CART Indycar on all the IRL tracks if I want to. I hate the > IRL, but I want their tracks. > Mike

No you can`t have the tracks from the IRL,your stuck with those goofy road courses that Cart loves so well.

Quoted text (12 lines)

>> Jim, >> I would like to see an IRL update to Indycar 2. This would include all >> the IRL tracks as well as the new IRL chasis, but would also include >> everything in icr2 or would be backwards compatible. I want to be able >> to race my CART Indycar on all the IRL tracks if I want to. I hate the >> IRL, but I want their tracks. >> Mike >No you can`t have the tracks from the IRL,your stuck with those goofy >road courses that Cart loves so well.

Personally I think one of the strengths of CART are the road courses. If you like ONLY ovals then go race Nascar, if only road courses then F1, CART has the challenge of mastering both. Well just to keep this on subject for r.a.s. if we do get an IRL pack they have to come up with a way to gives the outrageous amount of turbo boost that made the IRL races so fun to watch. (Hint- unfairly fast IRL team whose cars had the tendency to end the race in a big plume of smoking blown engines due to TG allowing them to run much more boost than the other teams) Cheers. --John -- Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. ------------------------------+-------------------------- Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

Jim, Thank you for the great games, bugs and all! I am really enjoying N2. Also, thanks for supporting r.a.s.. I would really like to see dirt track racing of some sort (outlaw, sprint, etc.) in one of your new sims. Dirt tracks have been part of racing in The South for many years. Lots of great Winston Cup personalities got their start on dirt. I remember as a kid (1960's) seeing NASCAR sanctioned racing on 1/2 mile dirt tracks around C***te, NC. I believe*** Hutcherson and Tiny Lund were among the usual "big name" drivers to show up on dirt. This might be a great addition to a NASCAR nostalgia series. If you do this, remember to model the tracks going from wet, muddy, and very slick to dusty with pot holes where it "beats out" after many laps. Thanks again. Tony Joy <snip>

Goofy!? That was Pluto's pal was it not? I'd rather have a few laps of take one road course over 10 ovals any day of the week and twice on Sundays. The only really fun ovals are Phoenix, Nazareth and Pocono. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

Here's a copy of an e-mail I sent to Jim Sokoloff regarding the N3 wish list. Are my sentiments on target, or are the N2 bunch and the GP2/ICR2 bunch of different minds when setup options are concerned? Greetings, I just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth. Great job on N2, I consider it a huge improvement in driving fun over N1. As far as my wish list, I'll confine it to the garage area. The simulation would improve 100%, in my eyes, with more freedom in changing the car settings. I would like to see the "shocks" setting broken up into separate adjustments for "springs" and "damping." Specifically, the low speed compression and rebound damping settings. These settings drastically effect the precieved driving feel of the car and would add immensely to the overall satisfaction of the simulation. Also, the ability to adjust the sway bar and panhard rod would be a real benefit to the game. I would also like to have the stagger adjustment back, though I assume you deleted it because of the rules in the real NASCAR series. I know that the adjustment I've mentioned would, most likely, make the driving model you use very complex. I feel, however, that the setup options should be the area overhauled in N3. The differences between N1 and N2 are teriffic, but it seems that the garage was left out. Creating as accurate a driving model as possible, I believe, should be one of, if not THE highest concern for future versions on Papyrus racing games. I hope that you find my suggestions helpful and that they are already included in the planning for N3. My feelings are the same for any future versions of IndyCar Racing. Sincerely, Chris Cavin

: Here's a copy of an e-mail I sent to Jim Sokoloff regarding : the N3 wish list. Are my sentiments on target, or are the : N2 bunch and the GP2/ICR2 bunch of different minds when setup : options are concerned? <snipped suggestions for more garage setup options> I agree, this is one area that can be expanded/upgraded for a future NASCAR release. However, they need to be careful and make sure they can create a product that can be as "complicated" and "in-depth" as the "hardest" sim die-hard could want it and still allow it to be simple enough for the the mechanically challenged. I do think that Crammond did a pretty good job on this front with the 3 different levels of setup for GP2. In order for some of these finer adjustments to really make alot of sense, I think Papyrus needs to add other elements to the sim. We need variable track conditions (changing grooves during the race, weather changes during the race), thus calling for minor/major adjustments in the pits. It would be nice to be able to tinker with fine chassis adjustments, but if the track conditions stay the same from 1st practice to the final lap of the race. . . I want to be forced to have a *** taken out or in during the race (hey, cut that out, I'm talking about the springs here <g>). I want to be forced to try all of the tweakings I hear about during the races. Maybe a little less tape on the front since it's heating up? But without varying track conditions, I'm not sure that all of these garage tweakings are really that important. Okay, now we have more garage/pit settings to worry about. How about adding a "chief-mechanic wizard"? The driver says the car is fine going into the turns and fine coming out, but it pushes in the middle. The "wizard" then recommends different things to change. Of course, next we will want a separate engine development team, and a opportunity to create different chassis designs. . . Heck this will be like the real evolution of NASCAR. Pretty soon the days of Fireball Roberts will be replaced by Penske/Hendrick/Roush/ organizations and the little guy won't be able to "sim-race" any more. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Yes, I like the idea of having a wizard to recommend things to change. But how about a spotter/crew cheif that points out wether your loose going into the turns or looks like you're lacking acceleration coming out of the turns. Or pushing in the middle, etc. I have a hard time trying to figure out if my car is loose or tight. I know sometimes when it is overly loose as the back end will spin around. But when it is close to being neutral, the car just seems to jump around or squeak and then not squeak the tires. Speaking of setup changes...I need to know what is the best amount to change each setting to see an effect. Shocks in increments of 1%, 5%, 10%, 25%? Spoiler in increments of 1%, 5%, 10%? Air Pressure in increments of 1, 2, 5, 10 psi? Wedge in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs? Fr-rr bais in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs? Left-Right bias in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs? --- () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club

Jim, I would like to see an IRL update to Indycar 2. This would include all the IRL tracks as well as the new IRL chasis, but would also include everything in icr2 or would be backwards compatible. I want to be able to race my CART Indycar on all the IRL tracks if I want to. I hate the IRL, but I want their tracks. Another option would be a game with an Indycar career mode. You can start with a certain budget, depending on if you are going the "easy" "medium" or "hard" level. You could start with an Indylights car, and race their schedule, and get a shot at the CART series based on your performance. It would have maybe a choice of offers from differnt teams, ranging from a seat with Penske to a small limited budget team, depending on the diffculty level you pick and your performance in Indy lights. This would also randomly distribute the quality of cars and engines from year to year, maybe the Penske was *** this year, but next year the Reynard / Honda is better. Maybe I could find sponsorship and start my own team, maybe even build my own car and enter into an engine development program. Basically, I want money management and career options. Similar to a combination of Indycar2 and grand Prix manager. Mike

I'd also like to see more help when setting up the car for the race. Maybe a clipboard that keeps track of your lap times in practice so you can see each lap time, average lap time, and how your lap times fall off with tire wear. Mark

Hmm, how about a historic NASCAR Sim? I'd love to swap some paint with Bobby Allison, David Pearson, Buddy Baker, and the king himself, Richard Petty, among others. David *** You're only young once, but you can stay immature forever ***

Quoted text (13 lines)

> I have a hard time trying to figure out if my car is loose or tight. > I know sometimes when it is overly loose as the back end will spin around. > But when it is close to being neutral, the car just seems to jump around or > squeak and then not squeak the tires. Is there any pointer anyone can give > me as to how to tell? > --- > () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso > () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs > () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club > () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club

I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic, but your post brought to mind the quote (as I remember it) from Glenn 'Fireball' Roberts "If your front end hits the wall first that's understeer; if your backend hits the wall first that's oversteer" Cheers and I hope you get it sorted out. Dave Bradley (dBradley on Hawaii)

>Hmm, how about a historic NASCAR Sim? I'd love to swap some paint >with Bobby Allison, David Pearson, Buddy Baker, and the king himself, >Richard Petty, among others. Now heres a thought. I've had Quake for a few days now and have seen a load of add-on's where people have invented new weapons by altering the vectors/shapes/textures of old ones. I know the 3DO format for the car shapes is complex (hell, I've seen it in a 3d wireframe viewer!) but how practical would it be for papy to have some sort of technical info available to programmers to create their own car shapes. Yes, I know its difficult - I had enough arguments with Rick G. over track editing - but some of us have enough 'know-how' and commitment to do it. O.K, I see the point about, "Well if your making your own tracks/cars/etc it ruins the market for us and we can produce anynew products". well let us edit the cars and you make new tracks! Anyhow, lets not get in a fight over it! Cheers Jed The Pits - http://www.thepits.demon.co.uk

I have a hard time trying to figure out if my car is loose or tight. I know sometimes when it is overly loose as the back end will spin around. But when it is close to being neutral, the car just seems to jump around or squeak and then not squeak the tires. Is there any pointer anyone can give me as to how to tell? --- () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club

}> }> I have a hard time trying to figure out if my car is loose or tight. }> }> I know sometimes when it is overly loose as the back end will spin around. }> }> But when it is close to being neutral, the car just seems to jump around or }> squeak and then not squeak the tires. Is there any pointer anyone can give }> me as to how to tell? }> }> --- }> () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso }> () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs }> () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club }> () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club } }I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic, but your post brought to mind }the quote (as I remember it) [snippo] That's OK, I didn't take it as mean or sarcastic. I think what you said may help, but only for when the car is exiting the corners. I have a wuick setup guide that talks about what to do when you're loose or tight going into the corners, all around the corner, etc. I have Jan Kohl's Quickfix Setup Guide which says to raise front tire the slowman" which advises to lower front air pressure when pushing? Anyone have any ideas as to which is the correct way to change air pressure to get more traction at an end of the car? --- () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club

>I have Jan Kohl's Quickfix Setup Guide which says to raise front tire >the slowman" which advises to lower front air pressure when pushing? >Anyone have any ideas as to which is the correct way to change air pressure >to get more traction at an end of the car? In general, lowering pressures (on racing slicks) will increase grip. However, that's probably not the best way to cure a badly ailing setup. To cure a push (understeer): do one or more of the following: Slow Down. Change your line. Decrease Cross-Weight (wedge) Decrease front tire pressures (watch your tire temps though) Decrease rear tire pressures (decreased pressure increases rolling drag) Play with the shocks (probably soften LR, LF) Lower the rear spoiler (generally BAD) There are others far more skilled in the art of car setup. I can't hang with the big boys on Hawaii, so consider the above as a rough guide at best. ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Do you reccomend doing those in that order? Or is there a more prefered order of attack? --- () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club

Quoted text (40 lines)

> }> > }> I have a hard time trying to figure out if my car is loose or tight. > }> > }> I know sometimes when it is overly loose as the back end will spin > around. > }> > }> But when it is close to being neutral, the car just seems to jump around > or > }> squeak and then not squeak the tires. Is there any pointer anyone can > give > }> me as to how to tell? > }> > }> --- > }> () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso > }> () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs > }> () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club > }> () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club > } > }I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic, but your post brought to mind > }the quote (as I remember it) > [snippo] > That's OK, I didn't take it as mean or sarcastic. I think what you said > may help, but only for when the car is exiting the corners. I have a wuick > setup guide that talks about what to do when you're loose or tight going > into the corners, all around the corner, etc. > I have Jan Kohl's Quickfix Setup Guide which says to raise front tire > the slowman" which advises to lower front air pressure when pushing? > Anyone have any ideas as to which is the correct way to change air pressure > to get more traction at an end of the car? > --- > () http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso () Dominic Tuso > () http://www.nicad.com/ () For you NiCd needs > () http://www.teleport.com/~cramark () R/C car racing club > () http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml () R/C car racing club

Dominic, If you raise pressure at one end of the car, that end of the car will be stiffer, and therefore lose traction first. So, increase pressure at the front of the car to create understeer; more pressure at the rear means the car could get looser. You can also address this with weight adjustments- more weight in one end means that end will break traction first. Also stiffer shocks have an affect- stiffer suspension means more response, with the stiffer wheels breaking traction first.

Quoted text (12 lines)

>}To cure a push (understeer): do one or more of the following: >}Slow Down. >}Change your line. >}Decrease Cross-Weight (wedge) >}Decrease front tire pressures (watch your tire temps though) >}Decrease rear tire pressures (decreased pressure increases rolling >}drag) >}Play with the shocks (probably soften LR, LF) >}Lower the rear spoiler (generally BAD) >Do you reccomend doing those in that order? Or is there a more prefered >order of attack?

No, not necessarily in that order (probably will not even do all of them) Those are the things to try. You'll have to get a setup that YOU like and is fast for YOU. (The reason I put slow down and/or change your line first is that very often you need to SLOW DOWN more in order to get a better lap time.) ---Jim, Papyrus

On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 14:40:25 +0000, John Wallace Howdy John, That's totally off topic, but I just wanted to wish you an happy new year to you and your family ;-)) Franck Murger Buzz Racing / Squirrellcage http://www.worldnet.net/~fmurger/

Off topic? Are you missing the world famous F1SA "thread drifts"?! A great New Year to you, to Mimi and to Granny too - see you soon I hope?! Cheers! John & Rika _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

JW> >No you can`t have the tracks from the IRL,your stuck with those JW> goofy >road courses that Cart loves so well. JW> I'd rather have a few laps of take one road course over 10 ovals any JW> day of the week and twice on Sundays. The only really fun ovals are JW> Phoenix, Nazareth and Pocono. I'm with you there John - haven't been bowled over by Nascar 2 as a "new" product in terms of new graphics, performance etc. But I never got the track pack before.....now I've discovered Sears Point! Weeeee!!! Reminds me of Knockhill for some reason..... Actually - there is a change - the driving model makes the cars handle far better it seems - no strange lurches into the armco, inconsistant braking, etc.....another traction bug quietly repaired??? Certainly MUCH more driveable now - if I can learn a fast line around Sears that is! Cheers! --- * RM 1.3 U0414 * But I thought YOU did the all backups!!

Hey Folks, If you're serious about getting the setups just right and want to really understand why and when to do what, then check out Dave's setup tutorial at: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html I've read the tutorial several times and compared it to other "setup guides" on the net. I've experimented with it for a couple of months the results speak for themselves. On Nascar.exe I went from 181 at Atlanta to 185.5 mph. On N2 after only a few hours of experimenting I've gone over 183.3 mph (N2 seems to be more demanding). Check it out and try it for yourselves, Dave is a good man and he does good work. Regards & Happy New Year JBS

Quoted text (17 lines)

>Hey Folks, >If you're serious about getting the setups just right and want to really >understand why and when to do what, then check out Dave's setup tutorial >at: >http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html >I've read the tutorial several times and compared it to other "setup >guides" on the net. I've experimented with it for a couple of months the >results speak for themselves. On Nascar.exe I went from 181 at Atlanta >to 185.5 mph. On N2 after only a few hours of experimenting I've gone >over 183.3 mph (N2 seems to be more demanding). Check it out and try it >for yourselves, Dave is a good man and he does good work. >Regards & Happy New Year >JBS

You made my day, John! <VBG> Dave (davids) Sparks Late Night League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

>>I have Jan Kohl's Quickfix Setup Guide which says to raise front tire >>the slowman" which advises to lower front air pressure when pushing? >>Anyone have any ideas as to which is the correct way to change air pressure >>to get more traction at an end of the car? It depends on whether you are pushing on the entrance or exit. If you're pushing on the entrance, you generally want to decrease the RF pressure. If you're pushing on the exit, increase LR tire pressure. For more detail on setups try: [link lost in import] Dave (davids) Sparks Late Night League http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

>Actually - there is a change - the driving model makes the cars handle >far better it seems - no strange lurches into the armco, inconsistant >braking, etc.....another traction bug quietly repaired??? Certainly MUCH >more driveable now - if I can learn a fast line around Sears that is! Hiya Toby, Just a bit nicer isn't it?! I actually got all the way round SP without any major trouble first time. I was shocked as I could never do that in NCR1. In fact it seems easier all round as I quickly started racing the AI competitively at 98% on the first few races of the season in my first day of play. Stuart -- Stuart Booth Somewhere in Oxfordshire, England, UK

: >Hey Jim- in all the junk over the ICR2 stuff, I basically repressed : >the whole mess and never went ahead and returned my CD (original ICR2 : >CD) for the upgraded one, as Rick Genter had promised. Is the options : >still available? : : I have no idea. (In fact, I had my head down through the whole ICR2 : thing [working on NASCAR for PlayStation kept me busy enough...]) : : Have to tell you: contact Sierra Customer Support... : : ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus If you want to try out the Win95 version of ICR2 before you send in your CD (if that's possible), you can download an upgrade file from Sierra's FTP site. The file upgrades your DOS installation of ICR2 to the full Win95 version. The path is: ftp://ftp.sierra.com/pub/sierra/patches/sports-sim/icr2win.exe The file is about 4.5 megs. -- NOTE: the email address in the headers above is purposely incorrect, to prevent spam email. To email me, delete the '9' from the beginning of the address.