Auto-Racing - SATAN bedevils Internet Security

Drivers: 1). The Internet has just been audited by a software tool called SATAN. 2). Satan is called Security Administrator Tool for Analyzing Neworks. 3). The software recently visted 1734 INTERNET sites and found that 1127 had serious security lapes. What does that mean in laymen's language. The INTERNET is going to erect serious security and if you have a major supplier of internet services these providers will have to or already have what are called FIREWALLS. Firewalls are good as they provide security. The Problem with FIREWALLS is while providing this security they add over 200ms to your PING times. What does that mean. What that means is if you are going to race over the INTERNET you have to find ISP without FIREWALLS to eliminate a major latency addition. As most major suppliers have FIREWALLS and are adding them it will be more difficult to find ISP that you can use.. The trade off is little security and low latency or high security and long latencies. The FIREWALLS are the major additions of time to network latencies. Latencies on the INTERNET will be increased with these new security features and all the millions of new users. BOTTOM LINE!!! The Dialup will be to expensive and the INTERNET will be to slow. The best solution is Local Racing Clubs!!!! Don Wilshe, IVGA [link lost in import]

Quoted text (8 lines)

> >BOTTOM LINE!!! The Dialup will be to expensive and the INTERNET > >will be to slow. The best solution is Local Racing Clubs!!!! > Sorry, but if they are now talking about implenting a string of satellites > beaming > signals directly into the computer by 2005, your dream will be just > that... > A DREAM!

Who said anyting about satelites they are even slower... Thanks for your input.. Will just have to see what happens Don Wilshe, IVGA

Sorry, but if they are now talking about implenting a string of satellites beaming signals directly into the computer by 2005, your dream will be just that... A DREAM! Stop living in your fantasy world, Don. Nobody but you cares about racing locally. With the way things are going, it wil be YOU playing catchup with the rest of us.

Quoted text (17 lines)

> > >BOTTOM LINE!!! The Dialup will be to expensive and the INTERNET > > >will be to slow. The best solution is Local Racing Clubs!!!! > > Sorry, but if they are now talking about implenting a string of satellites > > beaming > > signals directly into the computer by 2005, your dream will be just > > that... > > A DREAM! > Who said anyting about satelites they are even slower... > > Stop living in your fantasy world, Don. Nobody but you cares about racing locally. > > With the way things are going, it wil be YOU playing catchup with the rest of us. > Thanks for your input.. Will just have to see what happens > Don Wilshe, IVGA

I Tried to tell everone this about 4 months ago, I'm just glad some one else see's it the way I do! Blake

Person: If you had a name I could address you.. First off, I said that Satellites have a real latency problem being geo-sync at 22,300 miles out in space. By the time you go back and forth that a total of 44,600 miles. Thats about 500ms of delay and it will not work auto-racing.. It would be nice but I cannot control PHYSICS!!!! Drivers will have racing venue choices, and It would be great if the INTERNET will work, but it wouldnt race for more than a couple of drivers in a local area. Can you tell me how TEN will be better than INTERNET for racing 32 users at $19.95 unlimited monthly??? Again we arent talking a dialup network. Now that you have lots of answer, why dont you share the solution with us,.... Or are you just a BLIND BELIEVER!!!! Don Wilshe PS. Local Racing Clubs, Local Internet, Local Ten anyway you go its not gonna be like HAWAII. It will be a said day when HAWAII is disassembled......

Amazing how people continue to sell technology short. I can guarantee that we will be able to race with full fields on a national basis within 24 months. -- Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA RaceTime utility program for Nascar1/Indycar2. http://www.metronet.com/~cstuart/

> > PS. Local Racing Clubs, Local Internet, Local Ten anyway > > you go its not gonna be like HAWAII. It will be a said day > > when HAWAII is disassembled...... > Amazing how people continue to sell technology short. I can guarantee > that we will be able to race with full fields on a national basis within > 24 months. > -- > Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA > RaceTime utility program for Nascar1/Indycar2. > http://www.metronet.com/~cstuart/ Chuck: Is that on a dialup or over INTERNET... I got $100.00 that says that we cant race 32 drivers over internet within 24 months.. 24 months enough time for you... Do you have a $100.00 Don Wilshe, IVGA PS. Time to put up....

> > PS. Local Racing Clubs, Local Internet, Local Ten anyway > > you go its not gonna be like HAWAII. It will be a said day > > when HAWAII is disassembled...... > Amazing how people continue to sell technology short. I can guarantee > that we will be able to race with full fields on a national basis within > 24 months. > -- > Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA > RaceTime utility program for Nascar1/Indycar2. > http://www.metronet.com/~cstuart/ Chuck: Have you raced Kali or Kahn on Internet lately... Don

Chuck...... I'll take you up on that guarantee........ I'd love to be proven wrong but somehow I think you are living in Fantasyland. Even on a "national basis" there is a hell of a lot of distance to cover from the top of the USA to the bottom.....and distance is time and time is signal delay. We have the same prob here in Oz as you have.......vast distances. With a Kali server on the west coast (Perth) it is impossible to play N1/N2 if one lives on the east coast (Sydney). That's national.....now look at international. If this thing is going to be INTERNET-transmitted, then Fantasyland becomes Dreamworld. Don reckons latencies of around 500ms............I say they'll be far worse than that. Current experimentation has latencies running our to almost A SECOND!! And...as Mr. Wilshe so correctly states, you can't beat the Laws of Physics.............light DOES travel at a fixed velocity and will continue to do so well past my lifespan! -- BruceK

At 24 months, I think I'm prepared to have a piece of that action. Don't have a $100 bill, but will 60 UK pounds do? I'll make a note in my diary for Christmas '98 <g> Cheers, Richard

: > PS. Local Racing Clubs, Local Internet, Local Ten anyway : > you go its not gonna be like HAWAII. It will be a said day : > when HAWAII is disassembled...... : Amazing how people continue to sell technology short. I can guarantee : that we will be able to race with full fields on a national basis within : 24 months. I'd agree with Chuck... 32 cars, national basis, 24 months... just as a hint: "anyone notice the word 'internet' in that post?". Go chuck go! bill -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- NASCAR - Everything else is just a game. -- ------------------------------ Bill Pogue Deep In The Heart Of The South

Yes, and we have never changed our understanding or interpretations of exactly what those laws are <g>. I believe there was a time when the sun revolved around the earth. I have a book on my shelf that states the planet Mercury always keeps the same side to the sun. Thomas Edison never believed in AC, a government study circa 1950 reported that no more than seven computers would ever be required and, less than twenty four months ago, Bill Gates stated in a speech that there was no reason for MS to have a special division for internet products. To quote Albert Einstein: "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." -- Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA RaceTime utility program for Nascar1/Indycar2. http://www.metronet.com/~cstuart/

Quoted text (9 lines)

> : > PS. Local Racing Clubs, Local Internet, Local Ten anyway > : > you go its not gonna be like HAWAII. It will be a said day > : > when HAWAII is disassembled...... > : Amazing how people continue to sell technology short. I can guarantee > : that we will be able to race with full fields on a national basis within > : 24 months. > I'd agree with Chuck... 32 cars, national basis, 24 months... just as a > hint: "anyone notice the word 'internet' in that post?". Go chuck go!

Actually, I did mean over the internet. Otherwise, its already true with Hawaii. <g>. It does continually amaze me how anyone can set in front a home computer and use the words never and technology in the same sentence. -- Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA Remember The Reason For The Season.

Bill, me thinks you may have an unfair knowledge advantage over many of the members of the newsgroup! :) Sometimes, its nice to know a network specialist! :) Pete

Quoted text (13 lines)

> I'd agree with Chuck... 32 cars, national basis, 24 months... just as a > hint: "anyone notice the word 'internet' in that post?". Go chuck go! > bill > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > NASCAR - Everything else is just a game. > -- > ------------------------------ > Bill Pogue > Deep In The Heart Of The South

Quoted text (19 lines)

> > : > PS. Local Racing Clubs, Local Internet, Local Ten anyway > > : > you go its not gonna be like HAWAII. It will be a said day > > : > when HAWAII is disassembled...... > > : Amazing how people continue to sell technology short. I can guarantee > > : that we will be able to race with full fields on a national basis within > > : 24 months. > > I'd agree with Chuck... 32 cars, national basis, 24 months... just as a > > hint: "anyone notice the word 'internet' in that post?". Go chuck go! > Actually, I did mean over the internet. Otherwise, its already true with > Hawaii. <g>. It does continually amaze me how anyone can set in front a > home computer and use the words never and technology in the same > sentence. > -- > Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA > Remember The Reason For The Season.

Chuck: Last night I was talking to a guy with a full digital circuit using a USR Robotics at 128K with a terminal adapter and the best lantency and ping times he could get were 120ms. Of course the occasional slam of traffic might give him a spurt of 2000ms ping but we should be able to handle that at BRISTOL in a tight corner.. RIGHT. This person has the optimal setup full digital and it cost him about $500 with a monthly maintenance fee of around $100.00. This full ISDN technology is still not good enough to prevent warping. What technological solution did you have in mind. I think you have to remember that most of the people that will attach to TEN will be using analog circuits. Whenever you are involved in A/D and D/A conversion you lose lots and lots of latency. The Best Analog circuits seem to be around 150ms. The Best ISDN circuits are around 60ms. Neither of these are good enough to prevent warping. And 90% of the people that do HAWAII now cant afford ISDN digital. So why dont you tell us what this TEN technology is that will make everything ok. I for one want to know what we are about to get in the next 12 months as none of my peers seem to know about it.. Don Wilshe, IVGA http://www.ivga.com

Quoted text (22 lines)

> Bill, me thinks you may have an unfair knowledge advantage > over many of the members of the newsgroup! :) Sometimes, its nice > to know a network specialist! :) > Pete > > I'd agree with Chuck... 32 cars, national basis, 24 months... just as a > > hint: "anyone notice the word 'internet' in that post?". Go chuck go! > > bill > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > NASCAR - Everything else is just a game. > > -- > > ------------------------------ > > Bill Pogue > > Deep In The Heart Of The South

Bill: So far all we have is a lot of talk about how great its going to be. Maybe you can get him to say how and what. If he's think ISDN digital its isnt gonna work and can you afford $100 a month to race.... Don Wilshe

Quoted text (29 lines)

> : So far all we have is a lot of talk about how great its going to > : be. Maybe you can get him to say how and what. > Well, as Chuck's thoughts seem to indicate he thinks the internet will > work... not. I don't agree that we can do this over the internet in its > current state... it just ain't gonna happen... the internet as we know it > today is bombarded with traffic that has no "latency issues" associated > with it. > My thoughts seem to go forward with private national networks. The > technology includes T3 and ATM backbones breaking down into T1 connections > to the point-of-presence (POP). There is one already out there... from > Concentric Networks... it supposedly can GAURANTEE low latency on EVERY > packet. I'm not connected at all with these people, I'm just a regular ol' > user like the rest of ya. > Search on Concentric to get their press release on the subject. There's > also more than just them making these national networks. > bill > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Finishing order: #24, #3, #88(Mark Breland), #25, #5, #17... > -- > ------------------------------ > Bill Pogue > Deep In The Heart Of The South

Bill: I 100% agree with you... But it will take alot more than CONCENTRIC and a ATM network to pull this off. Don Wilshe

: So far all we have is a lot of talk about how great its going to : be. Maybe you can get him to say how and what. Well, as Chuck's thoughts seem to indicate he thinks the internet will work... not. I don't agree that we can do this over the internet in its current state... it just ain't gonna happen... the internet as we know it today is bombarded with traffic that has no "latency issues" associated with it. My thoughts seem to go forward with private national networks. The technology includes T3 and ATM backbones breaking down into T1 connections to the point-of-presence (POP). There is one already out there... from Concentric Networks... it supposedly can GAURANTEE low latency on EVERY packet. I'm not connected at all with these people, I'm just a regular ol' user like the rest of ya. Search on Concentric to get their press release on the subject. There's also more than just them making these national networks. bill -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finishing order: #24, #3, #88(Mark Breland), #25, #5, #17... -- ------------------------------ Bill Pogue Deep In The Heart Of The South

Don, SATAN has been around for a few years now, and has been implemented many times by both administrators and hackers both. My point? A. An Internet provider does not need a firewall to have adequate security. A firewall merely provides a "shield" so that other machines on the "internal" network at the provider cannot be hit from the outside. B. Many providers already have firewalls installed and in place. You may not be aware if your provider has a firewall or not, it is usually invisible to the user, and access times can vary by computer and software being run. C. You refer to the "internet". The internet is no longer a single entity, nor run by any single parent. Some providers may choose to use firewalls, but since a firewall is going to add the cost of a computer and software, plus rerouting the network throught the firewall, many providers may choose alternate security methods. Having a firewall does not preclude a sucessful attack from a hacker, either. It merely provides a shield for the internal network. A good comparison is a house. If you have a house with 40 doors, that are all locked and have security alarms, is it more protected than a house with one door that was left open? You bet it is... I don't think you will have to worry about this. Not to mention, the advent of adding major bandwidth to the internet over the next couple of years should preclude any slowdown. Cheers! -- ??Jan Kohl?? **Diamond Motorsports/Mad Yanks Racing Team** Computer Systems Programmer USAF Air-Ground Operations School Hurlburt Field, FL Castle Graphics - http://www.theuspits.com/castle/ The Pits - http://www.theuspits.com/

Chuck...... I'll take you up on that guarantee........ I'd love to be proven wrong but somehow I think you are living in Fantasyland. Even on a "national basis" there is a hell of a lot of distance to cover from the top of the USA to the bottom.....and distance is time and time is signal delay. We have the same prob here in Oz as you have.......vast distances. With a Kali server on the west coast (Perth) it is impossible to play N1/N2 if one lives on the east coast (Sydney). That's national.....now look at international. If this thing is going to be INTERNET-transmitted, then Fantasyland becomes Dreamworld. Don reckons latencies of around 500ms............I say they'll be far worse than that. Current experimentation has latencies running our to almost A SECOND!! And...as Mr. Wilshe so correctly states, you can't beat the Laws of Physics.............light DOES travel at a fixed velocity and will continue to do so well past my lifespan! -- BruceK

At 24 months, I think I'm prepared to have a piece of that action. Don't have a $100 bill, but will 60 UK pounds do? I'll make a note in my diary for Christmas '98 <g> Cheers, Richard

>> : > PS. Local Racing Clubs, Local Internet, Local Ten anyway >> : > you go its not gonna be like HAWAII. It will be a said day >> : > when HAWAII is disassembled...... >> : Amazing how people continue to sell technology short. I can guarantee >> : that we will be able to race with full fields on a national basis within

Quoted text (13 lines)

>> : 24 months. >> I'd agree with Chuck... 32 cars, national basis, 24 months... just as a >> hint: "anyone notice the word 'internet' in that post?". Go chuck go! >Actually, I did mean over the internet. Otherwise, its already true with >Hawaii. <g>. It does continually amaze me how anyone can set in front a >home computer and use the words never and technology in the same >sentence. >-- >Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA >Remember The Reason For The Season.

Chuck, it's not the technology thing that I think will hold us back, but the IMPLIMENTERS of said Techno stuff. How long has the Bells of the world held back ISDN?? Cable modems will be a reality only for certain areas of the country, While it MAY indeed be possible to race over the net with full fields, the cost or the availablity will most likely limit participation. Dave Henrie

Quoted text (10 lines)

>That's national.....now look at international. If this thing is going to >be INTERNET-transmitted, then Fantasyland becomes Dreamworld. Don reckons >latencies of around 500ms............I say they'll be far worse than that. >Current experimentation has latencies running our to almost A SECOND!! >And...as Mr. Wilshe so correctly states, you can't beat the Laws of >Physics.............light DOES travel at a fixed velocity and will continue >to do so well past my lifespan! >-- >BruceK

After seeing a few of these "laws of physics" messages, I have to respond. Speed of light: 3 * 10^8 m/s Equatorial radius of earth: 6378 km Circumference of earth: 40074 km Time for an electron to circumnavigate earth: .13358 s. That's 134 ms. The latency is mostly in the routers, not in the travel time. There is still a lot of catching up technology has to do before we run into physical constants. So, let's look forward to the international races in a few years! Don't bother with satellites, though. The altitude of a geostationary satellite is 4.23 x 10^7 m. The calculation of latency is left as an exercise for the reader. -Christian

because they were affilieated with the Concentric Network....Now if YOU think the ConNet is the way to go, and Papy thinks the same way....WHY IS EVERYBODY ELSE SCREAMING ABOUT SLOW NET PLAY?? DAve Henrie

Quoted text (16 lines)

>Pogue) writes: >>My thoughts seem to go forward with private national networks. The >>technology includes T3 and ATM backbones breaking down into T1 >connections >>to the point-of-presence (POP). There is one already out there... from >>Concentric Networks... it supposedly can GAURANTEE low latency on EVERY >>packet. I'm not connected at all with these people, I'm just a regular >ol' >>user like the rest of ya. >> Isn't that suprising, that Papyrus chose the TEN *** network, >because they were affilieated with the Concentric Network....Now if YOU >think the ConNet is the way to go, and Papy thinks the same way....WHY IS >EVERYBODY ELSE SCREAMING ABOUT SLOW NET PLAY?? >DAve Henrie

Hi Dave, Probably because Concentrics' coverage is nowhere near comprehensive enough. 215 local access numbers isn't all that inclusive. And many of their "local" access numbers are toll or l/d calls for a lot of folks. Many people expected the NRO to be cheaper than Hawaii and for many it will not be. Besides, if people didn't "scream" you wouldn't have ever had Network play, or carsets, or Kali or Kahn. best regards, Gavel on Ten & Hawaii

Absoultely. I signed up for Concentric here in Phoenix and the connection was horrible. They gave me some song and dance about upgrading the Phoenix POP but did not know dates, details, etc. I told them to cancel the account. Regards, ---Wayne.

Then you have a closed mind. What is the speed of light based on? That relationship may never change but the underlying parameters could easily change. In 1899, the head of the US Patent office recommended closing the Patent Office because everything of any use had already been invented. -- Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA RaceTime utility program for Nascar1/Indycar2. http://www.metronet.com/~cstuart/

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > Current experimentation has latencies running our to almost A SECOND!! > > And...as Mr. Wilshe so correctly states, you can't beat the Laws of > > Physics.............light DOES travel at a fixed velocity and will continue > > to do so well past my lifespan! > Then you have a closed mind. What is the speed of light based on? That > relationship may never change but the underlying parameters could easily > change. > In 1899, the head of the US Patent office recommended closing the Patent > Office because everything of any use had already been invented. > -- > Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA > RaceTime utility program for Nascar1/Indycar2. > http://www.metronet.com/~cstuart/

Chuck: You havent given me anything tangible yet other than alot of double talk and will lets say I think we have lost you.. Later and never again.. Don Wilshe, IVGA Thank god we have Pete Reston that can explain things in simple english. Chuck, do you ever get any repeats jobs as a consultant...