Jumping The Start in N2

What are the rules re: "jumping the start" in NASCAR? Briefly: I find I can often pass 2-3 or more cars coming out of a yellow flag caution lap(s) by anticipating the green flag and accelerating before the AI cars. I do *not* pass anyone under yellow (if I do, I get black flagged), I just hit the gas earlier than the AI cars, usually a second or less before I know the green is coming out. Am I doing anything that would be considered "illegal" in either sim racing or NASCAR racing? Thanks, Cat

>> What are the rules re: "jumping the start" in NASCAR? Briefly: >> [...] >> Am I doing anything that would be considered "illegal" in either sim >> racing or NASCAR racing? > Well in the 1996 Winston Select a couple cars jumped the gun so they >did another lap under caution. Well, the Select is a non-points race also... The steward has the option to wave off a start if the field was not properly lined up. In the case that he never throws the green, the safety car does not come back out, but rather the first car in the lead lap line controls the pacing of the cars for another lap and another chance at it. If he has thrown the green, what will generally happen is that a car who appears to have "cheated" will be black flagged for a penalty (usually a mere stop and go). This is another case, where the actual rules are administered by humans who have a pretty good way of estimating what the "intent" of the violator was and handling it appropriately. In the Select, if I remember, Bobby got outside Mark before the start/finish line, but it didn't appear to me that anyone in particular was trying to "cheat." (Now Rusty and Dale did get a really good run on the start, but that's one of the benefits of being up front...) The problem with anticipating the green is that you can actually drop WAY back and really anticipate the green flag. This causes massive trouble, particularly when more than one person does it. Many Hawaii leagues have rules to make this illegal (and penalize, DQ, or suspend someone [after the race]). The sim doesn't handle it right now, but it's something that we know we need to address in the future, particularly for multi-player... (For single player, just don't do it, and everything is fine, because the AI cars don't do it...) ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

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>What are the rules re: "jumping the start" in NASCAR? Briefly: >I find I can often pass 2-3 or more cars coming out of a yellow flag >caution lap(s) by anticipating the green flag and accelerating before >the AI cars. I do *not* pass anyone under yellow (if I do, I get >black flagged), I just hit the gas earlier than the AI cars, usually a >second or less before I know the green is coming out. >Am I doing anything that would be considered "illegal" in either sim >racing or NASCAR racing?

You aren't allowed to pass to the left before crossing the start finish line, but the game does not enforce this rule. Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html Hawaii Handle: davids

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> >Am I doing anything that would be considered "illegal" in either sim > >racing or NASCAR racing? > You aren't allowed to pass to the left before crossing the start finish > line, but the game does not enforce this rule. > Dave Sparks > IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html > Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html > Hawaii Handle: davids

Dave - Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the no passing on the left before the line was a Busch Grand National Series rule, and not included in the Winston Cup Series rules. Let me know, if you have a way to verify it. Thanks, Mike

On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:44:26 -0500, Mike Marshall

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>> You aren't allowed to pass to the left before crossing the start finish >> line, but the game does not enforce this rule. >> Dave Sparks >Dave - Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the no passing on the left >before the line was a Busch Grand National Series rule, and not included >in the Winston Cup Series rules. Let me know, if you have a way to >verify it.

That rule is in the most recent Winston rulebook I looked for it in (1995 or 1996; can't recall). However, that rule is in the section on the start of the race (the start of lap 1), and is definitely NOT mentioned in the section on restarts from caution periods. And of course, I don't have the 1997 rulebook yet, but I don't expect it to change. ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

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> On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:44:26 -0500, Mike Marshall > >> You aren't allowed to pass to the left before crossing the start finish > >> line, but the game does not enforce this rule. > >> Dave Sparks > >Dave - Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the no passing on the left > >before the line was a Busch Grand National Series rule, and not included > >in the Winston Cup Series rules. Let me know, if you have a way to > >verify it. > That rule is in the most recent Winston rulebook I looked for it in > (1995 or 1996; can't recall). However, that rule is in the section on > the start of the race (the start of lap 1), and is definitely NOT > mentioned in the section on restarts from caution periods. And of > course, I don't have the 1997 rulebook yet, but I don't expect it to > change. > ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

I thought it WAS included in the rules for the Busch series on restarts too; as goes along with the lapped traffic starting on the outside, everybody most go around the outside before the line. Any ideas if this is true? But like you said, it is absent from the Winston Cup rules on restarts. Hmmmm! Anybody know for sure? I saw a race last year where this occurred by a relative newcomer and he had to check in for a stop-n-go, in the Busch series. Mike

>>> What about the start of a race and you are on the pole. > I was on the pole and the pace car had just peeled off and into pit > lane.(he was clearly on pit lane)<<< You have to make sure the pace car is COMPLETELY INTO pit road. If you pass the pace car before it ACTULLY goes behind the wall, you WILL receive the balck flag.

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>What about the start of a race and you are on the pole. >I was on the pole and the pace car had just peeled off and into pit >lane.(he was clearly on pit lane) I was still behind him on the track >at this point, so I gunned it leaving every one in my dust. Well you >guessed it I got the Black flag. >My question is when you are on the pole or at the point on a restart >when can you put the hammer down and not get flaged?!

It's pretty simple in the sim, you can't pass the pace car until the green flag waves. I believe the Winston Cup rules say that the pole sitter controls the pace after the pace car leaves the track until the green flag waves. Dave Sparks IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html Hawaii Handle: davids

What about the start of a race and you are on the pole. I was on the pole and the pace car had just peeled off and into pit lane.(he was clearly on pit lane) I was still behind him on the track at this point, so I gunned it leaving every one in my dust. Well you guessed it I got the Black flag. My question is when you are on the pole or at the point on a restart when can you put the hammer down and not get flaged?! BONSETT

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> What about the start of a race and you are on the pole. > I was on the pole and the pace car had just peeled off and into pit > lane.(he was clearly on pit lane) I was still behind him on the track > at this point, so I gunned it leaving every one in my dust. Well you > guessed it I got the Black flag. > My question is when you are on the pole or at the point on a restart > when can you put the hammer down and not get flaged?! > BONSETT

You race when you see the green flag. Traditionally, the leader sets the pace after the pace car leaves the track. On some tracks this means almost a half a lap without the pace car. Everyone is supposed to remain the same speed as the leader. When the leader can see the flagstand, he will usually begin to accelerate very slowly. This is natural. Just try not to, it is difficult. This acceleration must not cause your car to pass the pace car though; that's when you get black flagged. In real life, they don't check for this; they just make sure the cars are lined up and aren't "jumping". I'm not sure but I believe it is rare that the leader is blackflagged for jumping the start in real life. In the World of Outlaws, a cone is placed on the back stretch. The leader is responsible for restarting the race anytime he chooses after he passes the cone. Just imagine trying to simulate that. David Martin

>Am I doing anything that would be considered "illegal" in either sim >racing or NASCAR racing? If you are racing by yourself then "legal" is entirely your own judgement. It is not up to anyone in this group to tell you how to have fun on your own <g> That said, anticipating the start like that would be considered "illegal" in most off-line leagues. Cheers, Richard

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> >... In real life, they don't check for this; they just make sure > >the cars are lined up and aren't "jumping". I'm not sure but I believe > >it is rare that the leader is blackflagged for jumping the start in real > >life. > I seem to remember the leader during a late race restart in > the Indy 500 (yea, I know - pointy cars...) being disqualified for > passing the pace car after it (the pace car) had pulled off into pit > lane. > __ __ __ __ __ > |K |K |K |x |x | Kings Full > | | | | | | > | | | | | | This message sent by Free Agent 1.1

That was three years ago...Scott Goodyear jumped the start because he thought he saw the light on a scoring pilon go green (he was wrong). He thought he could appeal the descision and get the black flag waved off, so he didn't pit to serve it. He was wrong again, and disqualified.

I seem to remember the leader during a late race restart in the Indy 500 (yea, I know - pointy cars...) being disqualified for passing the pace car after it (the pace car) had pulled off into pit lane. __ __ __ __ __ |K |K |K |x |x | Kings Full | | | | | | | | | | | | This message sent by Free Agent 1.1

When the ??!!??!!??!!GREEN FLAG!!??!!??!!?? comes out?!?!?!?!?!?!?...

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>What about the start of a race and you are on the pole. >I was on the pole and the pace car had just peeled off and into pit >lane.(he was clearly on pit lane) I was still behind him on the track >at this point, so I gunned it leaving every one in my dust. Well you >guessed it I got the Black flag. >My question is when you are on the pole or at the point on a restart >when can you put the hammer down and not get flaged?! >BONSETT