Do real race car tires squeal at every turn?

Ronnie, I noticed that this only occurs for me on the rendition version. I was playing some network games over a serial line, and had to load my non rendition version on the other PC. On the NON rendition, the tires did not squeel, but they did on the Rendition version. I guess it's cool for them to squeel, as long as it isn't producing a lot of tire wear also. I would guess that the rendition version is more realistic. They probably put the wheel squeel in. Keep on racin! Paul >Do the tires on real race cars, when driven by professional drivers, squeal >at every turn like mine do in N2?

Do the tires on real race cars, when driven by professional drivers, squeal at every turn like mine do in N2?

> Do the tires on real race cars, when driven by professional drivers, squeal > at every turn like mine do in N2? Yea, real race car tires squeal. Hell, mine even did so on dirt toward the end of the night when a good layer of *** was laid down on the driving groove. As a fan, you won't notice it a great deal because of the db's of the car engines. But I think every honest driver will tell you that when you push a car to the limit, and drive on the edge, them damn tires are going to squeal. Kodo's to Papy for including this in the sim. Makes it more realistic. Chasman

I think the Rendition version produces better grip - probably because my CPU is faster in getting steering updates. I can drive under an AI car very low in the corner with the Rendition version but I slip up and hit the car on the outside with the normal version - unless I back off the throttle. I didn't notice more squeal though. /THansen

The tires scquel in Redintion and Non Redintion modes. The thing that makes them squel is the fact that you are turning sharper. By turning sharper you have more tire ware. You need to go into the turn a little sooner to stop the squeling. In the turns try to keep your car as low as you can without squeling the tires. If you can't keep the car down in the turns then I sujest you should go into the turns at less speed. Use the brake some then get on the gas coming out of the turns. Don't apply the brakes to much thou just enough to keep you from smacking the wall and running low in the turns.

>> Do the tires on real race cars, when driven by professional drivers, squeal >> at every turn like mine do in N2? >Yea, real race car tires squeal. Hell, mine even did so on dirt toward >the end of the night when a good layer of *** was laid down on the >driving groove. Yes, I can likewise assure you that they eventually do make noise. However, they don't start making noise quite as early as our simulator indicates... But for good reason. The reason that we have them making noise a little earlier is to allow you to use that as feedback to "feel" how hard the tires are working. (In real life, you feel that through your hands and the seat of your pants. Unfortunately affordable force-feedback technology sucks, and G-force simulators are unavailable...) ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

I DON'T use the Rendition version and have tyre squeal in every turn and on everytrack. easiest way to get rid of it is to lower the volume of the approriate section in the 'Sounds' settings :-) bk

: [...] : The reason that we have them making noise a little earlier is to allow : you to use that as feedback to "feel" how hard the tires are working. : (In real life, you feel that through your hands and the seat of your : pants. Unfortunately affordable force-feedback technology sucks, and : G-force simulators are unavailable...) : ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus I'll vouch for that. In my real car once, I got to feel the tires working real hard. I definitely felt it in my pants and I changed them as soon I got back home! But on a topical note, I'd like to suggest to Jim that it would be nice if the tire squeel sounds in the game were of slightly different pitch depending on if they were the back or the front tires loosing it. When I'm tweaking a setup and am getting 'close' it can get real hard to tell if it is the back or the front squeeling around a turn. Certainly in the real thing the drivers know exactly which tires are the one(s). Seems simple to impliment too. In the next patch? maybe? well? Anybody else feel this way? Matt

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> : [...] > : The reason that we have them making noise a little earlier is to allow > : you to use that as feedback to "feel" how hard the tires are working. > : (In real life, you feel that through your hands and the seat of your > : pants. Unfortunately affordable force-feedback technology sucks, and > : G-force simulators are unavailable...) > : ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus > I'll vouch for that. In my real car once, I got to feel the tires working > real hard. I definitely felt it in my pants and I changed them as soon I > got back home! > But on a topical note, I'd like to suggest to Jim that it would be nice > if the tire squeel sounds in the game were of slightly different pitch > depending on if they were the back or the front tires loosing it. When I'm > tweaking a setup and am getting 'close' it can get real hard to tell if > it is the back or the front squeeling around a turn. Certainly in the > real thing the drivers know exactly which tires are the one(s). Seems > simple to impliment too. In the next patch? maybe? well? Anybody else > feel this way? > Matt

Yes and no...I'm glad Jim answered the way he did. I fully agree there. When a car is "close" to set up, squealing is more likely to be heard by crew-cheif/owner standing at the fence than by the driver. It is hard for that person to judge front/rear-only the pyrometer knows. Keep reading those tire temps & trust the seat of Your pants, clean or not. Happy Lappin' Wade Tschida

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>>> Do the tires on real race cars, when driven by professional drivers, squeal >>> at every turn like mine do in N2? >>Yea, real race car tires squeal. Hell, mine even did so on dirt toward >>the end of the night when a good layer of *** was laid down on the >>driving groove. >Yes, I can likewise assure you that they eventually do make noise. >However, they don't start making noise quite as early as our simulator >indicates... But for good reason. >The reason that we have them making noise a little earlier is to allow >you to use that as feedback to "feel" how hard the tires are working. >(In real life, you feel that through your hands and the seat of your >pants. Unfortunately affordable force-feedback technology sucks, and >G-force simulators are unavailable...) >---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Hey Jim- When are you guys going to put "***Sensor Technology" into your sims? ;) Mike

Greg, Thanks for the info. I bet I had different setups on the rendition -vs- the Non rendition games. Paul

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>> The tires scquel in Redintion and Non Redintion modes. The thing that >> makes them squel is the fact that you are turning sharper. By turning >> sharper you have more tire ware. You need to go into the turn a little >> sooner to stop the squeling. In the turns try to keep your car as low as >> you can without squeling the tires. If you can't keep the car down in >> the turns then I sujest you should go into the turns at less speed. Use >> the brake some then get on the gas coming out of the turns. Don't apply >> the brakes to much thou just enough to keep you from smacking the wall >> and running low in the turns. >I use the tire squeal to determine if I have the car setup properly. Idealy >there >should be no squeal, except if you slam on the brakes.

>The reason that we have them making noise a little earlier is to allow >you to use that as feedback to "feel" how hard the tires are working. >(In real life, you feel that through your hands and the seat of your >pants. Unfortunately affordable force-feedback technology sucks, and >G-force simulators are unavailable...) >---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus I have a G-force simulator. It is an office chair that I spin around in whenever I wipe out! Just close your eyes! : ) Paul

I use the tire squeal to determine if I have the car setup properly. Idealy there should be no squeal, except if you slam on the brakes.

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>>> Do the tires on real race cars, when driven by professional drivers, squeal >>> at every turn like mine do in N2? >>Yea, real race car tires squeal. Hell, mine even did so on dirt toward >>the end of the night when a good layer of *** was laid down on the >>driving groove. >Yes, I can likewise assure you that they eventually do make noise. >However, they don't start making noise quite as early as our simulator >indicates... But for good reason. >The reason that we have them making noise a little earlier is to allow >you to use that as feedback to "feel" how hard the tires are working. >(In real life, you feel that through your hands and the seat of your >pants. Unfortunately affordable force-feedback technology sucks, and >G-force simulators are unavailable...) >---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Jim, that's a great point. Without that sound..... it's very difficult to "gage" the car. If anyone doubts this, try racing with the sound turned off and see how far your car gets as compared to the sound being on.

I think it was Mark Martin, when asked how much different the in-car camera was from in the***pit, he said "you don't hear the tires squeal..." The reporter asked him when that happened and he said something like "mine do. all the time..." that may not be a word-for-word quote but the general idea is there... btw, thanks for that part of the program - the feedback is great!

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>>> Do the tires on real race cars, when driven by professional drivers, squeal >>> at every turn like mine do in N2? >>Yea, real race car tires squeal. Hell, mine even did so on dirt toward >>the end of the night when a good layer of *** was laid down on the >>driving groove. >Yes, I can likewise assure you that they eventually do make noise. >However, they don't start making noise quite as early as our simulator >indicates... But for good reason. >The reason that we have them making noise a little earlier is to allow >you to use that as feedback to "feel" how hard the tires are working. >(In real life, you feel that through your hands and the seat of your >pants. Unfortunately affordable force-feedback technology sucks, and >G-force simulators are unavailable...) >---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Jim, thanks for the reply. I didn't know if the squeal was an indication of a poor setup that I needed to work on. Sounds like a little squeal can be expected even with a good setup and it definitely gives good feedback.

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> : [...] > : The reason that we have them making noise a little earlier is to allow > : you to use that as feedback to "feel" how hard the tires are working. > : (In real life, you feel that through your hands and the seat of your > : pants. Unfortunately affordable force-feedback technology sucks, and > : G-force simulators are unavailable...) > : ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus > I'll vouch for that. In my real car once, I got to feel the tires working > real hard. I definitely felt it in my pants and I changed them as soon I > got back home! > But on a topical note, I'd like to suggest to Jim that it would be nice > if the tire squeel sounds in the game were of slightly different pitch > depending on if they were the back or the front tires loosing it. When I'm > tweaking a setup and am getting 'close' it can get real hard to tell if > it is the back or the front squeeling around a turn. Certainly in the > real thing the drivers know exactly which tires are the one(s). Seems > simple to impliment too. In the next patch? maybe? well? Anybody else > feel this way? > Matt

Nah. I just drive some test laps, and check the F5 tire wear indicator to see who's working too hard, and which tire's sleeping on the job. I also check the temps on the setup sheet to make sure I'm getting good readings here.

This sounds like a product that would be hard to market and easy to abuse.... :-) Mike

>I use the tire squeal to determine if I have the car setup properly. Idealy >there >should be no squeal, except if you slam on the brakes. Yes, use the tire squeal to set up the car. With a good setup you can minimize squeal (more squeal indicates greater tire wear), but I disagree that you should have _no_ tire squeal. If the aim is to go as fast as possible (without trying to minimize tire wear of course), then the reality is - if you are driving through a corner and your tires aren't making noise, you should be going faster. -- Pat Dotson

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>>I use the tire squeal to determine if I have the car setup properly. Idealy >>there >>should be no squeal, except if you slam on the brakes. >Yes, use the tire squeal to set up the car. With a good setup you can >minimize squeal (more squeal indicates greater tire wear), but I disagree >that you should have _no_ tire squeal. >If the aim is to go as fast as possible (without trying to minimize tire >wear of course), then the reality is - if you are driving through a corner >and your tires aren't making noise, you should be going faster. >-- >Pat Dotson

During the rebroadcast of the 1996 Winston Select on TNN a few weeks ago, I noticed one of the announcers say something interesting. He said many times the driver will cause his car to develop a push or loose condition simply because he's driving it so hard, trying to get every bit of speed out of it. Kyle Langston _________________________________ http://www.traction.git.net/nrcentral/

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>>>I use the tire squeal to determine if I have the car setup properly. Idealy >>>there >>>should be no squeal, except if you slam on the brakes. >>Yes, use the tire squeal to set up the car. With a good setup you can >>minimize squeal (more squeal indicates greater tire wear), but I disagree >>that you should have _no_ tire squeal. >>If the aim is to go as fast as possible (without trying to minimize tire >>wear of course), then the reality is - if you are driving through a corner >>and your tires aren't making noise, you should be going faster. >>-- >>Pat Dotson >During the rebroadcast of the 1996 Winston Select on TNN a few weeks >ago, I noticed one of the announcers say something interesting. He >said many times the driver will cause his car to develop a push or >loose condition simply because he's driving it so hard, trying to get >every bit of speed out of it. >Kyle Langston >_________________________________ >http://www.traction.git.net/nrcentral/

Ahhh..But the trick is to get the car setup so that when you push it real hard, it will do a four wheel drift. This is where the fun begins. ;) Mike

>I DON'T use the Rendition version and have tyre squeal in every turn and on >everytrack. easiest way to get rid of it is to lower the volume of the >approriate section in the 'Sounds' settings :-) >bk But then you are depriving yourself of knowing what your driving is doing to your tires. For a good example of what tire squeal mean watch Days of Thunder. Crummy movie, I know, but Robert Duvall shows Tom Cruise that going all out and cooking your tires is not the fastest way around an oval. If your tires are sqeeling all the time, you are either driving too hard into the corners or have a very bad setup. Dave Henrie

> But then you are depriving yourself of knowing what your driving is >doing to your tires. For a good example of what tire squeal mean watch >Days of Thunder. Crummy movie, I know, but Robert Duvall shows Tom Cruise >that going all out and cooking your tires is not the fastest way around an >oval. If your tires are sqeeling all the time, you are either driving too >hard into the corners or have a very bad setup. Good God, man! "Crummy" doesn't even scratch the surface. Days Of Thunder was to racing what Milli Vanilli were to music. That stinking movie made me so mad, with its B.S. bravado and misinformation that I couldn't even watch the whole thing. I was in Dover for the Bud 500 (twice actually, once for the Peak 500 too), and watched Dale Earnhardt turn an incredibly fast lap after leaving the pits, smoking the tires clear around the track. I thought something was wrong with the car, until I got a whiff of the smoke, and could tell it was ***. At Dover, there was way too much noise to hear the sqealing, but I'm sure they were screaming. Heh. --

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>>I DON'T use the Rendition version and have tyre squeal in every turn and >on >>everytrack. easiest way to get rid of it is to lower the volume of the >>approriate section in the 'Sounds' settings :-) >>bk > But then you are depriving yourself of knowing what your driving is >doing to your tires. For a good example of what tire squeal mean watch >Days of Thunder. Crummy movie, I know, but Robert Duvall shows Tom Cruise >that going all out and cooking your tires is not the fastest way around an >oval. If your tires are sqeeling all the time, you are either driving too >hard into the corners or have a very bad setup. >Dave Henrie

Not really true Dave. If you ever have a chance, stand in the corners at a local track. You'll find that most if not all cars do have some tire squeal. If you are pushing the car to it's limits, their will be some noise. But your analogy to the DoT deal is right on. Mike

In real life tire squeel can have many other contributing facters. In Days of Thunder it is pointed out that the smaller NASCAR tires are melting. You'll probably notice that the tires on your real car will squeel in corners much more easily in corners during HOT summer days. Tire compound and side wall ridgidty have alot to do with it too. When I changed the tires on my Supra from S rated to H rated the tire squeel was reduced to virtually nill. This made extreme handeling less predictable because I couldn't HEAR the tires breaking lose any more, but once I adjusted, the handelling of the Supra increased considerably. -Marshall McLean