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Papyrus 1967 F1 Sim?????

39 posts by 25 people · 13 Feb 1997 - 16 Mar 1997

Notable threadPapyrus's upcoming 1967 Grand Prix sim

Fans discussed Papyrus's forthcoming F1 sim based on the 1967 season with a new physics model, expected around Christmas 1997 and listed on Sierra's calendar as 'Grand Prix'. Some preferred bug fixes for NASCAR 2 or a modern F1 sim, but many were excited about the old Nurburgring, Monza's banking and 1960s cars. Jim Sokoloff said Watkins Glen would be included if licensing allowed.

With Jim Sokoloff (Papyrus)

rumour/speculationreal motorsportGrand Prix Legends

Automated summary.

Anybody know when Papyrus is releasing its F1 sim which BTW is based on the 1967 Grand Prix season. It will utilise new 3D physics to accurately model even independent suspension movements. Imagine driving around the old Nurburgring in a powerful but gripless circa 1967 F1 racer. Talk about four wheel drift heaven.
TOlson94 13 Feb 1997#355985
That should be fun. How long was the old Nurburgring? 14 miles?
SimRaci 14 Feb 1997#356104
Look for it around x-mas '97...An early-look may be available around June at E3, but Papy hasn't yet decided (or confirmed) this. Marc Marc J. Nelson Sim Racing News - USA
I personally think it is a waste of time when Papyrus could be making a current F1 sim that I feel people would be more interested in. IN addition, they also could be spending time fixing all the lame bugs in N2 and making it available several graphic accelerators other than Verite. Eric
ccorpor 14 Feb 1997#356106
writes: REPLY: I second it. I wouldn't mind seeing the old cars but at the same time the above is more important to me to regardind N2. I won't balk at F1 either but again it's not my 1rst choice. If the schedule of upgrading N2 and another product doesn't collide then I still rather see either dirt style tracks, a demo derby or ultimately a Drag Racing game, with deep engine setup features and different drag classses. Also keep in mind multiplayer aspects (8+ min.) where as two are racing the other 6 or so can be tweaking their final setups waiting their turn in the brackets. Possibly make the whole drag day expierence in realtime. Where as once the competition begins each drag has an allotted time between each. So those that aren't racing can tweak or repair their cars but have a limited time in doing so as well. Make it, so if there is damage during the race that it's not magically fixed, but the player has to diagnose it and fix it, again in an alloted normal amount of time. Drag Race Sim would be as big as Nascar IMO and much easier on internet bandwith with less actual racing info. being generated while the actual drag is happening. Q.B.M.
ccorpor 14 Feb 1997#356107
writes: Simracer: NOOOOOOO! THE KISS OF DEATHHHHHHHHH! Not another X-mas job on us. :) Q.B.M.
Alison Hine 15 Feb 1997#356183
Awesome!!! I would absolutely *love* to have such a sim!! I don't like the dynamics of the recent GP cars very much; too much point-and-squirt, jam it into the corners, if it breaks loose it's gone. I'd love to drive cars that you can pitch sideways, steer with the throttle, really throw around. The closest I've come to this is a nice tossable setup I have for ICR2 Long Beach, but to actually be able to drive 1967 F1 cars! Fantastic! I want a Lotus 49-Ford at Monaco! No, wait! A Brabham-Repco, no, a BRM H-16 at the Nurburgring! I want to experience the *real* Silverstone - without chicanes - Abbey, Club, Stowe, the awesome Woodcote!! An Eagle-Weslake at the old, round-the-houses Spa!!! Brands Hatch's Dingle Dell...Watkins Glen without the Interloop!! Ahhhhh!!!!! I need a time-warp machine, to make Christmas come now!! Please, please Papyrus, tell us you'll do this, really! -- Alison Hine
>Anybody know when Papyrus is releasing its F1 sim which BTW is based on the >1967 Grand Prix season. It will utilise new 3D physics to accurately model >even independent suspension movements. Imagine driving around the old >Nurburgring in a powerful but gripless circa 1967 F1 racer. Talk about >four wheel drift heaven. Hopefully the release date for this promising sim will be "When it's finished" and not another push it out the door before Xmas and patch it later like the last two xmas releases from Papy. Either way like the last two, I am looking forward to another great sim, hoping this one might even have the old banked tracks that F1 used to race on at Monza (I think), at least from watching the movie Grand Prix the track looked like a lot of fun! Way to go Papyrus for coming up with a great idea for a sim, anyone who watches the movie "Grand Prix" will look forward to this sim. Cheers. --John -- Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks. ------------------------------+-------------------------- Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva
<snip> : I want a Lotus 49-Ford at Monaco! No, wait! A Brabham-Repco, no, a BRM : H-16 at the Nurburgring! I want to experience the *real* Silverstone - : without chicanes - Abbey, Club, Stowe, the awesome Woodcote!! An : Eagle-Weslake at the old, round-the-houses Spa!!! Brands Hatch's Dingle : Dell...Watkins Glen without the Interloop!! Ahhhhh!!!!! <snip> I think you should send your resume into Sierra. This sounds like a wonderful pitch for the ad campaign. :-) I was sold before, but now I want it even more! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Luca Varan 15 Feb 1997#356186
> Either way like the last two, I am looking forward to another great sim, > hoping this one might even have the old banked tracks that F1 used to race on > at Monza (I think), at least from watching the movie Grand Prix the track > looked like a lot of fun! Yes, it was Monza. The curve which has now the name "parabolica" used to be banked. Actually I don't know the exact translation of "parabolica" into English but "banked" is a pretty close one. To say the truth the old banked track still exists, just a few metres behind the modern curve. There is another banked turn just before the first variant which winds back to the straight after the Ascari variant, so that there is a "indy circuit" in the park. I don't know whether they ever raced only with two straights and two banked turns, though. Bye, LUca
Alan He 16 Feb 1997#356258
On Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:49:03 +0000, Luca Varani >To say the truth the old banked track still exists, just a few metres >behind the modern curve. There is another banked turn just before the first >variant which winds back to the straight after the Ascari variant, so that >there is a "indy circuit" in the park. >I don't know whether they ever raced only with two straights and two >banked turns, though. Yes, they did, although it was more common for the races to be run on both the banking and the flat course at the same time. They did one circuit aound the banking and then around the normal course, using the main straight twice in one lap! This is why the main straight is so wide at Monza. I think the banking was last used for GP cars in the filming of Grand Prix, although sportscars used it up till the early '70s. Alan Head Screamer 2 homepages: http://www.feature.demon.co.uk/games.htm -----------------------------------------
Eric Adam 17 Feb 1997#356380
I read in Boot magazine 6\97 but that cant be right slow as Papy is about putting out theyre bugs I mean games.
Here is/was the 1967 Scedule and who won the race.. 1. South African GP (Kyalami), won by Pedro Rodriguez (Cooper-Meserati) 2. Monaco GP (Monaco), won by Denny Hulme (Repco-Brabham) 3. Dutch GP (Zandvoort), won by Jim Clark (Lotus-Cosworth) 4. Belgian GP (Spa-Francorchamps), won by Dan Gurney (Eagle-Weslake) 5. French GP (Circuit Bugatti, Le Mans), won by Jack Brabham (Repco-Brabham) 6. British GP (Silverstone), won by Jim Clark (Lotus-Cosworth) 7. German GP (Nurburgring), won by Denny Hulme (Repco-Brabham) 8. Canadian GP (Mosport Park), won by Jack Brabham (Repco-Brabham) 9. Italian GP (Monza), won by John Surtees (Honda) 10. United States GP (Watkins Glen), won by Jim Clark (Lotus-Cosworth) 11. Mexican GP (Mexico City), won by Jim Clark (Lotus-Cosworth) WWW: http://www.io.com/~taylor23
Quoted text (7 lines)>>Anybody know when Papyrus is releasing its F1 sim which BTW is based on the >>1967 Grand Prix season. It will utilise new 3D physics to accurately model >>even independent suspension movements. Imagine driving around the old >>Nurburgring in a powerful but gripless circa 1967 F1 racer. Talk about >>four wheel drift heaven. >Hopefully the release date for this promising sim will be "When it's
finished"
Quoted text (7 lines)>and not another push it out the door before Xmas and patch it later >like the last two xmas releases from Papy. >Either way like the last two, I am looking forward to another great sim, >hoping this one might even have the old banked tracks that F1 used to race on >at Monza (I think), at least from watching the movie Grand Prix the track >looked like a lot of fun!
Unfortunately I think they stopped using the banking earlier in the 60's.. Grand Prix was filmed during the 1966 season and the banking was used only because the director thought it was cool.. Or something like that.. Personally I really look forward to driving the old Nurburgring... WWW: http://www.io.com/~taylor23
Alan He 18 Feb 1997#356512
Yep, that's right, although I don't think that the film was supposed to be based on any particular season, just the events from GP racing in the early '60s. For example, the crash on the banking at the end of the film may have been inspired by Wolfgang von Trips' fatal accident a few years earlier, although that took place at the Parabolica I believe. Garner's character is definitely based on Phil Hill, as he was the one to benefit from von Trips' death. He won the championship that year when all that von Trips had to do was finish at Monza in that fateful race. I personally hope that Papyrus put the banking in, and use the full Monza circuit in the sim - at least they have some expertise in designing banking! One thing that is bothering me is how the hell they are going to model long tracks like the old Monza (6-8km), Spa Francorchamps (12km), and the Nurburgring (12 miles). Surely that is going to need a fair amount of memory or at worst loads of swapfile access? If they can do it it will be totally awesome! I've driven it in a road car (and as pillion on a motorcycle), and it is terrifying even at relatively low speed. I can't begin to imagine the courage (or stupidity) it must have taken to drive it in a zero-grip F1. Alan Head Screamer 2 homepages: http://www.feature.demon.co.uk/games.htm -----------------------------------------
Al F 18 Feb 1997#356513
Denny Hulme won the World Championship that year, didn't he? -Al
Min of 32 meg required for Nurburgring maybe?? Wouldn't bother me but I guess that a lot would complain.... I'm just looking forward to the _weeks_ that will be required to learn the track <g> Cheers, Richard
ccorpor 19 Feb 1997#356646
> Path: news1.neo.lrun.com!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dcitelepor t.com!worldnet.att.net!howland.erols.net!psinntp!shareinfo.com!pubxfer.news.psi net!usenet > Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators > Subject: Re: Papyrus 1967 F1 Sim????? > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:10:30 GMT > Organization: Osborn Engineering Co. > Lines: 2 Somebody please rekindle me on what type of Ferrari's were running F1 back in '67. Thanks. Q.B.M.
Whol 19 Feb 1997#356647
A look at the Sierra web page (www.papy.com) shows the following on their calendar: available for holiday, 1997 Grand Prix Could this be our game? Wholi
Don Mullin 19 Feb 1997#356648
I would imagine they are doing both at the same time. Companies don't just work on one project at a time. -- Todo Es Justo En Amor Y Carreras. The Rusty Wallace Miller Lite stock car, awsome when opened up! GO#2! Mullins Motorsports Inc. http://www.***tron.com/~ddmj
Quoted text (7 lines)>> Denny Hulme won the World Championship that year, didn't he? >> -Al >Somebody please rekindle me on what type of Ferrari's were running F1 back in >'67. Thanks. >Q.B.M.
1967 was not a good year for Ferrari in F1.. They campaigned the 312/F1 that year who's V12 engine was a little down on power compaired to the Cosworth.. Chris Amon finished forth at Monaco, Spa, Silverstone, and the Nurburgring.. The second driver, Lorenzo Bandini, lost his life at Monaco... Steve WWW: http://www.io.com/~taylor23
ccorpor 20 Feb 1997#356788
DON: REPLY: That's why I used IF, I didn't want to assume anything. Q.B.M.
Rob Adl 20 Feb 1997#356789
The V12 Ferrari 312 was raced in 1967, with the 'main' driver being the Kiwi Chris Amon. This car was raced from 1966-1969 until the 12 cylinder boxer motor was introduced in the 312B, which was a major improvement. The '67 season was of course won by the late great Denis Hulme - another Kiwi; not too bad against the awesome Scot Jim Clark in a DFV Ford Lotus 49!! Rob Adlam New Zealand.
Quoted text (13 lines)>>One thing that is bothering me is how the hell they are going to model >>long tracks like the old Monza (6-8km), Spa Francorchamps (12km), and >>the Nurburgring (12 miles). Surely that is going to need a fair amount >>of memory or at worst loads of swapfile access? >Min of 32 meg required for Nurburgring maybe?? Wouldn't bother me but I >guess that a lot would complain.... >I'm just looking forward to the _weeks_ that will be required to learn >the track <g> >Cheers, >Richard
I would love to see such a sims since i never saw any footage from that era and hardly know anything about it... I would LOVE to see what the tracks were like...man 12 miles is sure a long track...
Alan He 21 Feb 1997#356914
Quoted text (7 lines)>>One thing that is bothering me is how the hell they are going to model >>long tracks like the old Monza (6-8km), Spa Francorchamps (12km), and >>the Nurburgring (12 miles). Surely that is going to need a fair amount >>of memory or at worst loads of swapfile access? >Min of 32 meg required for Nurburgring maybe?? Wouldn't bother me but I >guess that a lot would complain....
I think that by the time the game comes out (I don't believe that it will be Christmas) 32meg will be the minimum for gameplaying, so it shouldn't be a problem. Plus, memory is so dirt cheap at the moment anyway. I've read a few interviews with great drivers like Jackie Stewart and Fangio and they reckon it is actually impossible to learn the track to the same level as other circuits. Stewart said that he could only remember the next couple of corners ahead and that it required a hell of a lot more concentration than most tracks. The main problem is that the trackside scenery is nearly always pine trees and nothing else, meaning there are few landmarks. At leat that should be easy for Papy to model! Alan Head Screamer 2 homepages: http://www.feature.demon.co.uk/games.htm -----------------------------------------
Stuart Boo 21 Feb 1997#356915
>Min of 32 meg required for Nurburgring maybe?? Wouldn't bother me but I >guess that a lot would complain.... >I'm just looking forward to the _weeks_ that will be required to learn >the track <g> ...and no replay to speak of?!!! Wouldn't bother me either. Was there a shorter version of that track at the time? Perhaps, like the 4 and 8bit (???) car sets used in the Rendition ICR2/NCR2 (from stuff I've read, I don't own one so correct any mistakes please), there'll be an option of both. Frankly I can't imagine the effort that would be required to model that track accurately given the time it takes for the 'simple' ovals in Nascar (again from memory of a long ago post from Mr Rick Genter). Stuart -- Stuart Booth Somewhere in Oxfordshire, England, UK Note: My email address is in disguise! Remove trailing Z
ymenard 24 Feb 1997#357301
Why not Monza without any chicanes and with the double oval/road track. I think the oval track at Monza has one of the highest banking in the world. If this is real, I can resist. Just hope everybody and send E-mail to papyrus to suggest things to them. Thanks a lot, Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy) [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)
ymenard 24 Feb 1997#357302
Here is a schema of the old Monza track I am pretty sure at 95% that it is right. Old Gp in Monza used the Oval and the Road track to race. Now what we call the pits served before the track. The track schema starts on 1 and finish in 12. the ===== means that the 2 tracks were side by side. ____ 2/ \ | \ | \ | \ __7________Oval________8_____ | \ / \ | X \ | / \_3_________Road__________ | \ 6 | \ |9 \ \ 5 4 / / 1 \______================================/ 12 11 10 Thanks a lot, Hope it will be like this Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy) [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)
ymenard 24 Feb 1997#357303
> A look at the Sierra web page (www.papy.com) shows the following on their > calendar: > available for holiday, 1997 > Grand Prix > Could this be our game? > Wholi I think you're right Here is the address: http://www.papy.com/news/calendar/ Cool Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy) [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)
Alison Hine 26 Feb 1997#357535
Quoted text (10 lines)><snip> >: I want a Lotus 49-Ford at Monaco! No, wait! A Brabham-Repco, no, a BRM >: H-16 at the Nurburgring! I want to experience the *real* Silverstone - >: without chicanes - Abbey, Club, Stowe, the awesome Woodcote!! An >: Eagle-Weslake at the old, round-the-houses Spa!!! Brands Hatch's Dingle >: Dell...Watkins Glen without the Interloop!! Ahhhhh!!!!! ><snip> >I think you should send your resume into Sierra. This sounds like a >wonderful pitch for the ad campaign. :-)
<grin> You really think they'd hire me? I'd be in racer heaven!
Quoted text (7 lines)>I was sold before, but now I want it even more! >-- >**************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* > Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-- Alison Hine
This may seem like a silly question, but what was at the X where the tracks crossed? I'm assuming a tunnel or bridge....It would be silly to have traffic lights there :) As for them using the front straight twice, It might be confusing which way to go at t12, or was there pylons or some other division to the wide track? Rick Martel
co.. 06 Mar 1997#358362
: This may seem like a silly question, but what was at the X where the tracks crossed? I'm assuming a tunnel or bridge....It would be silly to have traffic lights there :) As for them using the front straight twice, It might be confusing which way to go at t12, or was there pylons or some other division to the wide track? Well it was a bridge situation, with the road course dipping beneath the banking of the oval. These can still be seen today, as the oval still exists although it is in great disrepair. Now, AFAIK no race was ever run merging of the two tracks, certainly not a Grand Prix. Yes, the two shared the front straight but they were seperate tracks. The oval was used twice for two races in the 50s, staged as a meeting of the two worlds (United States and Europe) with the American drivers running circles around the Europeans (sorry for the pun). Don't concider movie melodrama as reality. When _Grand Prix_ was made, the director thought it would be neat to include the banking. Luckily, it was the 60s and the track hadn't deteriated that much so it could be used. ...as for a track that combines a mix of oval flavour with a road course there actually are a few. Texas World Speedway, Daytona, New Hampshire Int. Speedway, and Homestead in the US all have a variation on this theme. New Hampshire and Homestead both have infields (in the case of Loudon, it is rather small) that can be used. Not sure if Homestead's 2.21 mile road course has been used, but Loudon often mixes sections of the oval and infield for motorcycle races. Texas World Speedway is a copy of Michigan, with four degrees more banking; but only about a 1/4 of the oval is used, the front straight, before the focus shifts to the infield road course a 1.9 mile circuit. Daytona's infield increaces the circuit distance from 2.5 to 3.56 miles. So really, there is no example of the ficticious Monza oval/road course mix...and probably won't ever be. The way cars are setup for ovals are just downright scarey when they have to turn right. __o _-\<,_ Cosmo Potapoff
Alan He 06 Mar 1997#358363
On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 15:34:30 GMT, Richard K.B. Martel >This may seem like a silly question, but what was at the X where the tracks crossed? I'm assuming a tunnel or bridge....It would be silly to have traffic lights there :) As for them using the front straight twice, It might be confusing which way to go at t12, or was there pylons or some other division to the wide track? >Rick Martel There is a bridge where the track cross (you can see this on GP2 as you come down to Variante Ascari) The main straight was divided by pylons (outer for the road course, inner for the oval - which has banking steeper than any currently existing American oval) There are some circuit diagrams (slightly poor quality scans I'm afraid) on my site at www.feature.demon.co.uk/mosport.htm Alan Head Screamer 2 homepages: http://www.feature.demon.co.uk/games.htm -----------------------------------------
<monza map snipped> > This may seem like a silly question, but what was at the X where the tracks crossed? I'm assuming a tunnel or bridge....It would be silly to have traffic lights there :) As for them using the front straight twice, It might be confusing which way to go at t12, or was there pylons or some other division to the wide track? > Rick Martel The oval had overpasses at the points where it crossed the road course. The overpasses show in the Microprose F1 games, but they're not connected to anything. MW
Jim Sokolo 07 Mar 1997#358472
Loudon has a very small infield (it's primarily a couple of chicanes to keep the bikes/cars off the entire banking for safety reasons) The road course is actually mostly in the "outfield" if you will. (After Nascar turn 2, the wall opens up, and there is a right hander up the hill, leading to the bowl, a tight left, and a downhill right back onto NASCAR turn 3 area. ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus
ymenard 15 Mar 1997#359435
> Now, AFAIK no race was ever run merging of the two tracks, certainly not a > Grand Prix. Yes, the two shared the front straight but they were seperate > tracks. The oval was used twice for two races in the 50s, staged as a > meeting of the two worlds (United States and Europe) with the American > drivers running circles around the Europeans (sorry for the pun). I have an old book (195?) that Farina and Fangio wrote. I was "techniques de pilotage" (French). With over 200 pages, it shows the major tracks at this time. 50% of this book is based on the old Monza track. and YES they're was a race with the oval/road track at the same time. That's why the front stretch is so wide. It was divided into two tracks. The F1 didn't used it, but I think the "mil miles of Monza" (French for 1000 miles race) was raced on the two tracks. The book even has some photos with the division of the track after the pits! Homestead is used by Formula Atlantic (little league of CART) with the infield and the oval track. Thanks a lot, Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy in rec.autos.simulators) [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.geocities.com/area51/vault/2804/index.html http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)
ymenard 15 Mar 1997#359436
Jim, Speaking of the old 1967 sim, is Watkins Glen included in the game ???? Because before the track was constructed, they're was a race (F1?) held in Watkins Glen but in the streets of the town. I'm not sure if in 1967 the actual track (without the chicane) existed. IMHO it would be cool to have the old Watkins Glen track in the streets. And also, is there a place on www.papy.com were we can see the actual job of everybody at papyrus. Don't stop your great job Jim, Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy in rec.autos.simulators) [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" Nien Numb in the National Star Wars League(X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter league) http://www.dakotacom.net/~strange/ http://www.geocities.com/area51/vault/2804/index.html http://www.starwars.com/ Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition,N2,Gp2,Icr2.How can my life be better? May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)
Jim Sokolo 16 Mar 1997#359578
>Speaking of the old 1967 sim, is Watkins Glen included in the game ???? If we can get the licensing squared away, yes... Indeed that would be cool; I honestly do not know what the status of our licensing efforts are there. I do know that the town wasn't very big on the part time track, as a few drivers were killed there... No; can you imagine how many headhunters would be calling us then? I mean, our phones are already ringing regularly with recruiters trying to hire away talent... ---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus
> Jim, > Speaking of the old 1967 sim, is Watkins Glen included in the game ???? > Because before the track was constructed, they're was a race (F1?) held > in Watkins Glen but in the streets of the town. I'm not sure if in 1967 > the actual track (without the chicane) existed. The early races were indeed run through town, on a 6.6 mile layout; The course included asphalt, dirt and cement surfaces! This circuit was no longer used as of 1953, when promoters used a temporary layout for three years. The existing track was built in 1956 in its original configuration. The track closed in bankruptcy in 1981, but was reopened in 1984, and now uses a slightly different configuration (the inner loop, and a couple of modifications to turns). God Bless, Steve

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