New Indycar Sim Coming From Microsoft ?

I just read that Microsoft is developing an Indycar-based sim to be called CART Precision Racing. Supposedly it will make use of MMX technology, for what that's worth. Anybody else got any more detailed info on this sim, such as 3D hardware to be supported (if any, since it's to be an MMX-enhanced program), etc. etc. ? Thanks, Bob Chalfin

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> I just read that Microsoft is developing an Indycar-based sim to be > called CART Precision Racing. Supposedly it will make use of MMX > technology, for what that's worth. > Anybody else got any more detailed info on this sim, such as 3D hardware > to be supported (if any, since it's to be an MMX-enhanced program), etc. > etc. ? > Thanks, > Bob Chalfin

If it's anything like GP2, I'll stay with papy on this one ! -- ------- Chasman Simulator ***world http://sim

>> I just read that Microsoft is developing an Indycar-based sim to >> be called CART Precision Racing. Supposedly it will make use of MMX >> technology, for what that's worth. <...> Where did you hear this? Last I heard Sony had some sort of rights to CART. I just hope somebody starts a good next-generation sim of indycar. Problem is, Papy isn't staying with you on this one. They're done with indycar, so they say. And what is it that is so bad about GP2? I love ICR2, but even I have to admit that they just don't have the knack for road courses (non-ovals, rather). They are best at ovals. They just don't give enough sense of being "firmly on the ground" for the courses- their accelleration, and their braking has always, since "Indy500 the sim" seemed "mushy", and their sound feedback for what your wheels are doing (skidding, spinning, etc.) is terrible. These things are necessary to feeling your way around a course. And, above all, ICR2's lack of "curbs" means an innordinate reliance on "jersey barriers"- which in, for example, the case of the upcoming Australian race, makes for a very unrealistic experience. Try racing Australia in ICR2, then watch the next race on TV- the real racers bounce all over the place off of curbs, and in general, race a very different sort of course from the sim. In the sim, you just fight all the time to keep off the walls; in the real race, there just aren't so many walls. Then you've got courses like Portland, where they couldn't put walls, and since there are no curbs giving you visual and audio feedback of where you are either, you just sort of go flying in to the grass... It is it's own pleasure and challenge, but it just doesn't quite simulate the real thing as well as GP2 does their courses. I think one reason for NASCAR's success is that Papy is fantastic with ovals. Once you are up to speed and dealing with drafting and other cars, then I think the cars feel a lot like what the actual cars look like (if that makes any sense to anyone). Furthermore, you don't need "curbs" on ovals. You can just have those "jersey barrier" sorts of walls papy uses.

> >> I just read that Microsoft is developing an Indycar-based sim to > >> be called CART Precision Racing. Supposedly it will make use of MMX > >> technology, for what that's worth. > <...> He might be thinking of IRL instead of CART.

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> >> I just read that Microsoft is developing an Indycar-based sim to > >> be called CART Precision Racing. Supposedly it will make use of MMX > >> technology, for what that's worth. > <...> > Where did you hear this? Last I heard Sony had some sort of rights to > CART. I just hope somebody starts a good next-generation sim of > indycar.

It's true. I was told it is public knowledge and so I am posting this response. I am not directly involved with the project, but because I am an avid race fan (simulation and real) I was invited to a couple of open meetings that were designed to get ideas for the project. I was vocal and made suggestions that many of you would have made. I also sent a formal list of suggestions to the Program Manager. I don't know what was accepted, but my comments were geared toward realism, not arcade. This is a guess, but I bet that options will be selectable so you can get an arcade game or a full fledged simulation. That is a guess. Don't read between the lines. No hidden message. I asked for a game that included team management. This would be similar to a Grand Prix 2/Grand Prix Manager combo. I don't think that will happen. I am reluctant to post much about this, mainly because I don't know any details about the actual product. I am going to try and get the PM connected to Sim Racing News. He might be open to this. He might not. I can't control that. I can say that the PM is an avid race fan. He attends Indy and F-1 races on a regular basis. He also plays Grand Prix 2, Indycar 2 and Nascar 2. He has a***pit in his office. He understands what the racing simulation community enjoys and wants. I really think he will deliver a good product. As a side, I will push that it runs on both 95 and NT (no guarantees, but it makes sense). -Paul Here are some of the suggestions that I made. This is not all of them and some of these are obvious, but GP2 doesn't measure tire temps.... Car Adjustments Garage Only shocks springs camber gear ratios remove fuel (ie - going from 40 gal to 5 gal) Pits and Garage front wing adjustments rear wing adjustments wickerbill adjustments tire compund tire pressure add fuel measure tire temps In Car Only turbo boost brake bias front anti-sway bar rear anti-sway bar fuel mixture tire status feedback Miscellaneous First and foremost, get the physics model correct. Papyrus sims place too much emphesis on high speed downforce and don't model low speed handling correctly. An IndyCar should not spin out of control at less than 25 mph. This can happen with ICR2. Developt the team concept. This is somewhat included in Grand Prix 2, but is totally ignored by Papyrus. Eliminate the need for hacking. Provide a Paint Shop for painting the cars, pit crews and helmet. Provide a driver profile editor with details of the driver's profile content. Microsoft could provide downloadable profiles after each major race. Plan for the future, include at least two chassis' and engine types that are labeled as 'UnTitled'. That way new chassis and new engines can be included as they become available. This would require a chassis editor and an engine editor. Incorporate a race engineer. The driver is not the all encompassing descision maker that other racing sims portray him to be. This option could be turned on or off, but a race engineer could supply valuable feedback to the driver via .WAV files. Help with sway bar settings, brake bias, turbo boost, fuel mixture and pit strategies. Incorproate a spotter. The spotter would be a .WAV file that would inform the player of cars approaching from the rear. An alternative to a .WAV file would be a small on-screen graphic that would lite up when cars are approaching form the rear. This would be similar to how Spectrum Holobyte's "Mig-29" spotted missiles.

> First and foremost, get the physics model correct. Papyrus sims place too > much emphesis on high speed downforce and don't model low speed handling > correctly. An IndyCar should not spin out of control at less than 25 mph. Though he was going about 60-75mph at the time, Roberto Guerrero spun into the wall on the parade lap and missed the Indy 500 the year he won the pole. So it can be done... God Bless, Steve

> It's true. I was told it is public knowledge and so I am posting this > response. I am not directly involved with the project, but because I am an > avid race fan (simulation and real) I was invited to a couple of open > meetings that were designed to get ideas for the project. I apologize if you don't want to get into this, but I'd like to ask a question or two if I may. 1. When? Are we looking at 1998 before we see this? You said you went to a couple of open meetings, but you didn't say when they were. I just want to know when I might actually see this product. 2. Is there a feature set available yet? I'd like to know what is to be in it, tracks (if any - gosh it'd suck without any of them), net play (with MS games this seems to be very likely now), editing abilities...... 3. This might be a bit much but...... if the feature set and delivery dates haven't been set, would it be possible to send suggestions to someone at MS? I read yours, but was thinking maybe if enough folks here on the list could send their opinions and support that maybe some of these managerial abilities could be included. Thanks for your help. The info is greatly appreciated. Andy Backa The only skills I have the patience to learn are - Calvin and Hobbes Chewey Pages: http://www.cs.unb.ca/grads/b9yc/web/chewey.html

> Though he was going about 60-75mph at the time, Roberto Guerrero spun > into the wall on the parade lap and missed the Indy 500 the year he won > the pole. So it can be done... Don't quote me on this, but I think that Guerro's spin was attributed to the "instant-on" nature of his Buick engine's low end power. Not so much handling problems at low speed. -- Bill

>It's true. I was told it is public knowledge and so I am posting this >response. [description and suggestions snipped] I know this is a long shot, especially to ask it of Microsoft, but how about a PowerPC-native Macintosh version? BTW, your suggestions for the sim are great...I hope the PM values your opinion (and monitors this newsgroup)! Keep us posted. -Steve -- -- Voice: (206) 869-7284 8271 - 154th Ave. NE FAX: (206) 869-5325 Redmond, WA 98052 USA

: If it's anything like GP2, I'll stay with papy on this one ! : -- : ------- : Chasman : Simulator ***world : [link lost in import] He said microSOFT not microPROSE.... -- _________________________ _________________________ ____________ Sam Ponzi - - BENETTON RACING - - -- FLY AIR CANADA -- ------------

One thing I'd like to see in a sim is time simulation. That is to say, if I am qualifying and I want to change shocks, then in the current sims that can be done INSTANTLY. Meaning I go into the garage with 0:20:34.435s remaining in Qualifying, go into the garage and change shocks only to come out of the garage with 0:20:34.435s left in Qualifying. It takes time to make a shock change. Or any MAJOR change for that matter. Each team should be a little random at their abilities to make major adjustments. That way if I have 8 mins left in Qualifying and it would take 10 mins to make a shock change, then I will just have to live with the shocks for the remaining time in Q or try some other quicker changes to tweak out some time on my next flyers. And I don't know of a sim yet that has changing track conditions DURING the race. I want to see it where I have the setup tweaked to be nuetral at the begining of the race, but because as the race went on the track changed, maybe my car would go loose, or maybe push. That way making a pit stop would be MORE than just adding gas. I would have to decide if I want more wing or tire pressure change or whatever is adjustable in the pits during a race. The papy sims pay off big to just leave the boost on 9, wing it to be comfortable and keep the tires at a reasonable temp and you can easily expect a Championship in your first go. I'm just glad they let us tweak the AI to make it challenging no matter what your abilities are. Otherwise it would have been shelved because it IS ridiculous how unstable the car is at low speeds. For the record - Roberto Guerrero lost it because IndyCars have a posi-traction rearend. Meaning both tires spin when you light em up. So here he is in a straight line, punches the gas, breaks em loose and it turns straight into the wall. It turned because BOTH rear tires are spinning and it just did what it wanted. Possibly one gained traction slightly faster than the other. This would make it turn. He had no chance to correct it. You must also remember that the pace lap is at 80 mph. Just imagine what it would be like to have the horsepower to break em loose at 80 mph!! BUT, he's a professional....should have anticipated it.

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> > First and foremost, get the physics model correct. Papyrus sims place too > > much emphesis on high speed downforce and don't model low speed handling > > correctly. An IndyCar should not spin out of control at less than 25 mph. > Though he was going about 60-75mph at the time, Roberto Guerrero spun > into the wall on the parade lap and missed the Indy 500 the year he won > the pole. So it can be done... > God Bless, > Steve

Actually even though I have never driven and indycar before (I wish) if you floor it in as low as third gear you can get wheel spin with any amount of steering will spin around unless you can control it.