huggins and hawaii

is this guy a joke or is he,lets give some info

> is this guy a joke or is he,lets give some info Robert Huggins is probably the fastest driver currently on HAWAII. Robert has developed some killer setups that can beat anyone. Lets give the guy some credit. You know that Robert is totally 100% legit as he would certainly never mess in MR. ED MARTIN PLAYGROUND!!!! Don Wilshe, IVGA PS. VLX400... You got a name ????

All the cheaters on Hawaii should be ashamed for letting a large group of "completely legit drivers" whip them with the old fashioned "right-line!" They haven't even made 15s yet and they can't even hold a qualifying record! No wonder Papyrus doesn't feel the need to do anything about them! .....RIGHT? Viper

> is this guy a joke or is he,lets give some info aaaahhhhhh Mr. VLX400....have I got a replay for you.... I dont know how funny he is but he's certainly one of the more "creative" racers to grace the shores of our virtual HAWAII. I myself am not much of a computer person, bought my first one when Nascar 1 came out, but I DO know when I've been snookered, and in the last year and a half of watching replays I've NEVER seen anyone else have the "setup" talent to make their car LUNGE out of the turns at Atlanta at speeds that go from 168 to 218 mph in bursts of speed that would amaze any roadrunner. Unfortunately, because of my lack of computer knowledge, I cant prove what this good ole boy is doing, but I wont ever get on a track with him again if I can help it. Anybody that can make up 5 seconds on the leader in 4 laps with a car that had been in 3 wrecks and then take the lead and the win on the final lap is definitley in a "class" by themselves. And just for the record....he was removed from the league that this race occurred in because of its suspect nature. I will let the replay speak for itself, you make up your own mind. Let me know if you desire a copy. tom -- 1997" 8 8 8 8 Owner/Driver of the Kingsford 8888888 8888888 Charcoal Monte Carlo. 8 8 8 8 3rd Coast Racing runs with NIGHT OWLS 8888888 8888888 http://www.synapse.net/~crankstr/nightowl/nightowl.htm

no mr.don wilishe i do not have a name .actually i do have a name it is SMOKKINU .BUT LIKE U DIDNT KNOW WHO VLX400 WAS HUH DON . ya we all know how u lie to everyone don . you have to stop doing that

Don don't give me this ***about Huggins about him being legit we all know he cheats he has admitted to it once to me GT86 once when he was under the name of Tester01 and I don't care how fast his setups are he will not pull 1 sec on 1 car in fact let alone 2 cars in draft or even 3 in a draft in a lap and I have seen him do it many times he has done it to me he cheats and he is a loser because he doesn't admit it and if anyone defend him for this because I don't have hard prove besides his speed and his words about his cheating but as I was saying if anyone defends him is a loser to I guess he doesn't cheat like Cmone wasn't stealing setups right!!!! By the way I thought you was a stand up guy until this and all the negative NRO stuff you have been posting lately I have no idea where you get your info but you need a new source because most (99%) of the ***you post about the NRO and TEN is that crap. PS VLX400 is your olsd Buddy Smokkinu my teammate and by far the best team on Hawaii with Mharris except fpr two other great rcaers MAxwell and Moxopal which none of us need to cheat to win. Robert (GT86)

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> > is this guy a joke or is he,lets give some info > Robert Huggins is probably the fastest driver currently > on HAWAII. Robert has developed some killer setups that > can beat anyone. Lets give the guy some credit. You > know that Robert is totally 100% legit as he would > certainly never mess in MR. ED MARTIN PLAYGROUND!!!! > Don Wilshe, IVGA > PS. VLX400... You got a name ????

<good stuff snipped> I've NEVER seen anyone else have Hey Tom! Missed you in SIMRACING chat the other nite. Hang in there! Anyway, I'd like to see a clip of that replay. Could you send it to me or post it in the autos binaries news group. Thanks. Member -Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

I was saying if anyone defends him is a loser to I guess he doesn't cheat like Cmone wasn't stealing setups right!!!! Uhhh... I don't know what I did to you to start this! Stop playing with yourself in the bathroom:) You've got too much time on your hands to attack people without cause!

grammar teachers around the world to have a major coronary with this run-on sentence: OK Robert... Take a deep breath. Remember to breathe both in and out while speaking... :) July 4-5 Firecracker 400 (It will never be the Pepsi to me :-) !!!) Roberts sec. N-O UP HIGH!!!!!!! GO RUSTY #2 #2 #2 #2 #2 !!!!! Matthew

Jim! Ed! Hurry up with that patch and the NROS! Hurry! At this rate half the contingent of Hawaii drivers are going to have n-n-n-nervous b-b-breakdowns!!! LOL :-) teehee haha <G> David T.

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> <good stuff snipped> I've NEVER seen anyone else have > >the "setup" talent to make their car LUNGE out of the turns at Atlanta at > >speeds that go from 168 to 218 mph in bursts of speed that would amaze > >any roadrunner. > > Unfortunately, because of my lack of computer knowledge, I cant > >prove what this good ole boy is doing, but I wont ever get on a track > >with him again if I can help it. Anybody that can make up 5 seconds on > >the leader in 4 laps with a car that had been in 3 wrecks and then take > >the lead and the win on the final lap is definitley in a "class" by > >themselves. And just for the record....he was removed from the league > >that this race occurred in because of its suspect nature. > Hey Tom! > Missed you in SIMRACING chat the other nite. Hang in there! Anyway, I'd > like to see a clip of that replay. Could you send it to me or post it in the > autos binaries news group. Thanks. > Member -Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

I am still no clear on what is cheating and what is not,is the ability to peek into thousands of setup's fair,or is that just the lay of the land? How bout this one,at dega durring qualfiying you pin it to the line all the while swerving to and fro,then hit the ecs and do it again,do this 5 times and then swerve round to the sf line and run your regular qualifyin line.mid 198's are the norm for this STYLE of starts,is this cheating?How may of the front runners at dega are guilty of this,some of who you are.... just my 2Cents. Mr.V

> Tom, is this true?? Do you have the replay?? Could you please send it > to me please? Hey ! Please send me a copy too. I'm in a leauge with RHuggins at the time and i would _really_ like to know if i'm beeing "cheated" upon. So far, he won two of the two races he's done. He missed one. And last week we ran at Talladega in a non-champinship event. Did some 101 laps and guess who won.... Allthough he only won by .235 of a sec. he could have been sandbagging in the early stages.... I've also got several replays from the races we've done, but i can't say i've noticed anything suspicious - am i missing something? Please send me that replay - will you? -- Ed_ - Norway "Early on, the cars were getting faster and faster. And with good reason: everybody was cheating." - Richard Petty

For what it's worth- I've Raced with huggins on a number of occasions and found him to be a very "GOOD" driver. Based on my experiece with Hawaii, this is not always the case. Huggins will hold his line, but he will give you racing room. As you all know, this is to often the exception and not the norm. As you also know, "GOOD" drivers go FAST. For what it's worth, Huggins was kind enough to share some setup tips and driving tecniques with me that greatly improved my performance. Perhaps if you would follow his lines and experiment with your setups your performance might improve as well. Otherwise, you could just throw rocks at him in the newsgroup while he's practicing and getting faster - Just a thought. Beware the Red Bowtie (#3) Kevin Weidner

I heard he was a tester for papy to see how people could cheat. that way they can stop people from really cheating/ just a ruor but... > I was saying if anyone defends him is a loser to I guess he > doesn't cheat like Cmone wasn't stealing setups right!!!! > Uhhh... I don't know what I did to you to start this! Stop playing > with yourself in the bathroom:) You've got too much time on your > hands to attack people without cause!

Hi Tom! How goes the battle! :) There are times when one has signed a NDA that one really has to bite their tongue! There are those that have the talent to setup a car to go fast, there are those that have driving ability that can make that car go fast, there are those that can edit files, run TSR's cut through pits on qual, hit esc keys at the right moment, alter packet sizes write custom code but trying to figure out who is doing what is very difficult! There are those that are very good drivers who don't have to cheat to win but gee, if I'm down a lap and and I might drop a rating and I know what is required with my little ace in the hole, ah just this once I'll never do this again! :) This message isn't intended to anyone in particular but I have had email from many and even had a few high ranked racers admit they used to cheat but don't anymore! For what its worth big brother has watched and has learned and even though he chooses to be quiet will reward those that have participated! To those who have achieved greatness without using the above or other likemind methods I salute you. Regards Pete \

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> > is this guy a joke or is he,lets give some info > aaaahhhhhh Mr. VLX400....have I got a replay for you.... > I dont know how funny he is but he's certainly one of the more > "creative" racers to grace the shores of our virtual HAWAII. > I myself am not much of a computer person, bought my first one when > Nascar 1 came out, but I DO know when I've been snookered, and in the > last year and a half of watching replays I've NEVER seen anyone else have > the "setup" talent to make their car LUNGE out of the turns at Atlanta at > speeds that go from 168 to 218 mph in bursts of speed that would amaze > any roadrunner. > Unfortunately, because of my lack of computer knowledge, I cant > prove what this good ole boy is doing, but I wont ever get on a track > with him again if I can help it. Anybody that can make up 5 seconds on > the leader in 4 laps with a car that had been in 3 wrecks and then take > the lead and the win on the final lap is definitley in a "class" by > themselves. And just for the record....he was removed from the league > that this race occurred in because of its suspect nature. > I will let the replay speak for itself, you make up your own mind. > Let me know if you desire a copy. > tom

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> grammar teachers around the world to have a major coronary with this > run-on sentence: > >Don don't give me this ***about Huggins about him being legit we all know > >he cheats he has admitted to it once to me GT86 once when he was under the > >name of Tester01 and I don't care how fast his setups are he will not pull > >1 sec on 1 car in fact let alone 2 cars in draft or even 3 in a draft in a > >lap and I have seen him do it many times he has done it to me he cheats and > >he is a loser because he doesn't admit it and if anyone defend him for this > >because I don't have hard prove besides his speed and his words about his > >cheating but as I was saying if anyone defends him is a loser to I guess he > >doesn't cheat like Cmone wasn't stealing setups right!!!! > OK Robert... Take a deep breath. Remember to breathe both in and out > while speaking... :) > July 4-5 Firecracker 400 (It will never be the Pepsi to me :-) !!!) > Roberts sec. N-O UP HIGH!!!!!!! > GO RUSTY #2 #2 #2 #2 #2 !!!!! > Matthew

Wow all in one night I figured out; How to get access to this newsgroup, That my very good friend Robert Huggins is a famous guy, And that I am a Loser in the opinion of a Robert Platttts. The most interesting thing I think, is that Im a loser, that is troubleing me. I wish Pete Reston had also posted the letter from the guy in the Midwest league, regarding an incident where someone was upset about an accident. You probably have all seen that though. Reading that letter should be mandatory before taking the track. Its like calibrating yourself, as you would cal your wheel before a run. Mr Plattts knows nothing of me or Mr Huggins, other than Mr Huggins can kick his ass on a simulated race track. That makes him a loser and all his friends losers too? If I considered everyone who finished in front of me a loser than 85% of you reading this are losers too! I know some things about Huggins, not all. What I do know is, he is one hell of a nice guy. He is an excellent driver. He has never driven through me in a turn. He has never caused a multi car calamity on the first lap. He does not block the track shamelessly. He has taught me how to pick up 1.5 mph at Dega in qual, with out leaving the track surface, without using the pit lane, without hitting any keys. I have never qualed outside the top 3 in an ACE race at Dega using this technique which could be used by a real car in a real race no problem. He has volumes of setup research materials. Tom Eckels who also posted on the other side of this topic is another guy I like a lot. Both of these guys are sportsman and gentleman, they have both helped me unselfishly,and they both can kick the ***out of me. Tom beats me by 6 seconds and Huggins beats me by 10 seconds. No differance to me. They both race me clean, give me tips, congratulate me on the rare occasion I can beat them, and like to talk about the race afterwards. They both are real friends. As far as the replays, anyone can get their own sometime. I have some, I have seen Toms, and they all look pretty similar. Huggins is fast in them all! How do the "fast guys" do 180 in the turns at Atlanta? I don't know. I'd like to find out. I have their replays too! I don't think they are cheating just because they are smokkin me. Papyrus has said there is no "ultimate speed" the speeds are going up across the board. Maybe some day someone will be faster than Huggins. But it will have to be someone who worries about their own self and not the competition. I too have heard that there will be a crack down on cheating, Im sure many people will be surprised when Huggins is not affected by it. Hopefully after that we can all get back to having fun, making some friends, and enjoying some good racing. Also I must disagree that I am a loser, sorry Mr Platttts. I already know how to finish well, but not win, with the right frame of mind. So If I ever figure out to win, I'll be all set. It doesn't look like it will be that easy for those that started out winning and now are having to learn how to lose. CYA

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> For what it's worth- > I've Raced with huggins on a number of occasions and found him to be a > very "GOOD" driver. Based on my experiece with Hawaii, this is not always > the case. Huggins will hold his line, but he will give you racing room. As > you all know, this is to often the exception and not the norm. As you also > know, "GOOD" drivers go FAST. For what it's worth, Huggins was kind enough > to share some setup tips and driving tecniques with me that greatly > improved my performance. Perhaps if you would follow his lines and > experiment with your setups your performance might improve as well. > Otherwise, you could just throw rocks at him in the newsgroup while he's > practicing and getting faster - Just a thought. > Beware the Red Bowtie (#3) > Kevin Weidner

Well I have raced with him and against him, and I believe he CHEATS!!!! I have seen the replay that Tom speaks of here (I was actually in the race) and there is NO WAY he can run the speeds he runs without "tweaking" the code (not to metion the fact that huggins and I were in an accident in that race and hit the wall coming into 3 at Atlanta doing 180 and he went on to win the race????????? EXpalin that.). I'm no software developer, but I've been doing the NASCAR sim thing for about 2 years now, and have gotten pretty good at setting a car up. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not great, but you can definately tell when someone BLOWS by you on the backstretch at Atlanta when your doing nearly 200mph that something isn't right. Bill

I have been told that Hawaii knows the Huggins cheats and they are tring to firgure out how.I never said Huggins isn't clean I said he cheats I have helped out alot of racers in my time on hawaii which has been for more than a year.I have made setups for tracks that I have been asked to give out and I have to people many times.The reason I know Huggins cheats is because no one I mean no one can run down a 2 car draft in one lap (1 sec or more in 1 lap) by them selfs at any track let alone dega,but he does it and he doesn't cheat please give me a break.Also if you defend him cheating then yes you are a loser. Robert > > grammar teachers around the world to have a major coronary with this > > run-on sentence: > > >Don don't give me this ***about Huggins about him being legit we all know > > >he cheats he has admitted to it once to me GT86 once when he was under the > > >name of Tester01 and I don't care how fast his setups are he will not pull > > >1 sec on 1 car in fact let alone 2 cars in draft or even 3 in a draft in a > > >lap and I have seen him do it many times he has done it to me he cheats and > > >he is a loser because he doesn't admit it and if anyone defend him for this > > >because I don't have hard prove besides his speed and his words about his > > >cheating but as I was saying if anyone defends him is a loser to I guess he

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> > >doesn't cheat like Cmone wasn't stealing setups right!!!! > > OK Robert... Take a deep breath. Remember to breathe both in and out > > while speaking... :) > > July 4-5 Firecracker 400 (It will never be the Pepsi to me :-) !!!) > > Roberts sec. N-O UP HIGH!!!!!!! > > GO RUSTY #2 #2 #2 #2 #2 !!!!! > > Matthew > Wow all in one night I figured out; How to get access to this newsgroup, > That my very good friend Robert Huggins is a famous guy, And that I am a

Loser in the > opinion of a Robert Platttts. > The most interesting thing I think, is that Im a loser, that is troubleing me. I wish league, regarding an considered everyone Huggins beats me by winning and now are

> aaaahhhhhh Mr. VLX400....have I got a replay for you.... > I dont know how funny he is but he's certainly one of the more >"creative" racers to grace the shores of our virtual HAWAII. Wow! I saw the replay. There is something very seriously wrong/right with Huggins' car. The thing looks as if it has a turbo boost button. It performs short, discreet bursts of speed. He's got some acceleration curves that John Force would be proud of. It's a riot to watch. I would love to hear Mr. Huggins' analysis of it. I'd love to see more replays too. BTW, Huggins DID admit to CHEATING a while back on this newsgroup. He also said that he would only cheat when using a TESTER## user id in the future. Unless I'm convinced otherwise, I think he has forgotten his promise :-( Gosh, It's awfully coincidental that major IVGA guys are the ones that keep ending up in the cheating spot light. Either they are victims of a major *** or... Cheating and rumors of cheating have almost totally ruined the Hawaii experience for me. I hope the Hammer comes down swift and hard when the NROS goes online!!!!!!!! Member -Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

yes i love it someone thank this guy THANKX VIPER ur the man

dont make me laugh,u must be stupid or maybee you are doing the sameothing or if u dont understand that thats the same old thing,the only line i should follow is mine

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> I have been told that Hawaii knows the Huggins cheats and they are tring to > firgure out how.I never said Huggins isn't clean I said he cheats I have > helped out alot of racers in my time on hawaii which has been for more than > a year.I have made setups for tracks that I have been asked to give out and > I have to people many times.The reason I know Huggins cheats is because no > one I mean no one can run down a 2 car draft in one lap (1 sec or more in 1 > lap) by them selfs at any track let alone dega,but he does it and he > doesn't cheat please give me a break.Also if you defend him cheating then > yes you are a loser. > Robert > > > grammar teachers around the world to have a major coronary with this > > > run-on sentence: > > > >Don don't give me this ***about Huggins about him being legit we all > know > > > >he cheats he has admitted to it once to me GT86 once when he was under > the > > > >name of Tester01 and I don't care how fast his setups are he will not > pull > > > >1 sec on 1 car in fact let alone 2 cars in draft or even 3 in a draft > in a > > > >lap and I have seen him do it many times he has done it to me he > cheats and > > > >he is a loser because he doesn't admit it and if anyone defend him for > this > > > >because I don't have hard prove besides his speed and his words about > his > > > >cheating but as I was saying if anyone defends him is a loser to I > guess he > > > >doesn't cheat like Cmone wasn't stealing setups right!!!! > > > OK Robert... Take a deep breath. Remember to breathe both in and out > > > while speaking... :) > > > July 4-5 Firecracker 400 (It will never be the Pepsi to me :-) !!!) > > > Roberts sec. N-O UP HIGH!!!!!!! > > > GO RUSTY #2 #2 #2 #2 #2 !!!!! > > > Matthew > > Wow all in one night I figured out; How to get access to this newsgroup, > > That my very good friend Robert Huggins is a famous guy, And that I am a > Loser in the > > opinion of a Robert Platttts. > > The most interesting thing I think, is that Im a loser, that is > troubleing me. I wish > > Pete Reston had also posted the letter from the guy in the Midwest > league, regarding an > > incident where someone was upset about an accident. You probably have all > seen that > > though. Reading that letter should be mandatory before taking the track. > Its like > > calibrating yourself, as you would cal your wheel before a run. Mr > Plattts knows > > nothing of me or Mr Huggins, other than Mr Huggins can kick his ass on a > simulated race > > track. That makes him a loser and all his friends losers too? If I > considered everyone > > who finished in front of me a loser than 85% of you reading this are > losers too! > > I know some things about Huggins, not all. What I do know is, he is one > hell of a nice > > guy. He is an excellent driver. He has never driven through me in a turn. > He has never > > caused a multi car calamity on the first lap. He does not block the track > shamelessly. > > He has taught me how to pick up 1.5 mph at Dega in qual, with out leaving > the track > > surface, without using the pit lane, without hitting any keys. I have > never qualed > > outside the top 3 in an ACE race at Dega using this technique which could > be used by a > > real car in a real race no problem. He has volumes of setup research > materials. > > Tom Eckels who also posted on the other side of this topic is another guy > I like a lot. > > Both of these guys are sportsman and gentleman, they have both helped me > unselfishly,and > > they both can kick the ***out of me. Tom beats me by 6 seconds and > Huggins beats me by > > 10 seconds. No differance to me. They both race me clean, give me tips, > congratulate me > > on the rare occasion I can beat them, and like to talk about the race > afterwards. They > > both are real friends. > > As far as the replays, anyone can get their own sometime. I have some, I > have seen Toms, > > and they all look pretty similar. Huggins is fast in them all! How do the > "fast guys" do > > 180 in the turns at Atlanta? I don't know. I'd like to find out. I have > their replays > > too! I don't think they are cheating just because they are smokkin me. > > Papyrus has said there is no "ultimate speed" the speeds are going up > across the board. > > Maybe some day someone will be faster than Huggins. But it will have to > be someone who > > worries about their own self and not the competition. I too have heard > that there will > > be a crack down on cheating, Im sure many people will be surprised when > Huggins is not > > affected by it. Hopefully after that we can all get back to having fun, > making some > > friends, and enjoying some good racing. > > Also I must disagree that I am a loser, sorry Mr Platttts. I already > know how to > > finish well, but not win, with the right frame of mind. So If I ever > figure out to win, > > I'll be all set. > > It doesn't look like it will be that easy for those that started out > winning and now are > > having to learn how to lose. CYA

I had a pretty neat experience with Huggins last week. I actually qualled 1st ahead of him at Rockingham (He let me I'm sure!) which is one of my better tracks -especially at a "sprint" type event. Huggins "lagged" back for 3/4 of the race and then ZOOM passed me like I was sitting still. I was running CONSISTENT high 153 - low 154 laps and coming out of the corners VERY fast, YET he would pull away from me in the straights MAJORLY. I would like to know what Papyrus/Sierra's official stance on Rhuggins' speeds/laptimes. I have heard several times that they are "letting" him "hack" and trying to catch him but have not heard that from a Papyrus representative. Also, as a IVGA member I don't believe that RHuggins is acting as an IVGA representative in this situation, but I can't help agree that it doesn't portray the type of image I would hope for. In a nutshell, if cheating is occuring I would hope that the IVGA would distance itself from this situation and Rhuggins would have the integrity to admit it and only use a certain Hawaii handle when cheating (ie... Cheater)!! :-) -- John Parker IVGA Member #3718 (and ardent supporter, as of now) "Bogart" on Hawaii Links LS Tour Member #475 x

I have had the pleasure of racing with some of the best Hawaii drivers out there. RHuggins is one of those I am talking about. I have been racing Nascar 1 on Hawaii for nearly 2 years and I have learned a lot from drivers of his caliber. Granted, at times I have felt cheated. How is it that these guys seem to fly around the track as though I am standing still. There are some guys out there that do cheat and Hawaii has been on the butt's for some time. From what I here about NROS don't even think about cheating with bogus software tweaks to enhance car performance. Bottom line, PRACTICE!! It is easy to cry wolf when you don't do your homework and tweak your own setups. I look for the leagues with drivers possessing skill levels above 10 (I am a 9). I watch there line, note when the pit, and watch their lap times. I figure that if they can do it, I can. If the guy is cheating he WILL be caught. But, in my humble opinion RHiggins is just a damn good driver who has done his homework on those setups. -- Have a good day!

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>I have had the pleasure of racing with some of the best Hawaii drivers >out there. RHuggins is one of those I am talking about. I have been >racing Nascar 1 on Hawaii for nearly 2 years and I have learned a lot >from drivers of his caliber. Granted, at times I have felt cheated. >How is it that these guys seem to fly around the track as though I am >standing still. There are some guys out there that do cheat and Hawaii >has been on the butt's for some time. From what I here about NROS don't >even think about cheating with bogus software tweaks to enhance car >performance. Bottom line, PRACTICE!! It is easy to cry wolf when you >don't do your homework and tweak your own setups. I look for the >leagues with drivers possessing skill levels above 10 (I am a 9). I >watch there line, note when the pit, and watch their lap times. I >figure that if they can do it, I can. If the guy is cheating he WILL be >caught. But, in my humble opinion RHiggins is just a damn good driver >who has done his homework on those setups. >-- >Have a good day!

Uhhhh, maybe you havent been reading this group long enough,but Mr.Huggins has admitted to cheating.He had a post on here last summer asking hackers to join him in showing off their best cheats.He invited them to have a race on hawaii, just for cheaters(hackers). I have no problem w/ Huggins,since i was just racing on hawaii for the fun of it,but your wrong if u think he dosen't or didn't cheat.

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> Gosh, It's awfully coincidental that major IVGA guys are the ones that > keep ending up in the cheating spot light. Either they are victims of a > major *** or... > Cheating and rumors of cheating have almost totally ruined the Hawaii > experience for me. I hope the Hammer comes down swift and hard > when the NROS goes online!!!!!!!!

Well, that's the problem when people want to be sort of "famous". Sim-Racing is now a little community and many people here dream about accessing the highest ranks. But sometime they go too far and that's why some people should be shame thinking they ARE Sim-Racers. Cheaters should not even be talked in NROS. With the 1 year and + they had on Hawaii I hope they protected their codes from the Hackers. NROS will be public, for anybody, and this is a chance to get other non-SimRacing fans to try out NASCAR2. Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy in rec.autos.simulators) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ =ymenard now!!! SPEED- http://www.nascarnet.com/~speed [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)

John: John, Lots of people are doing testing for PAPYRUS and until we get rid of HAWAII and papyrus replaces this enviroment with a cheat proof system we will have problems. You know Papyrus hasnt given us a fix for anything on HAWAII on over 6 months.. They dont care so why should we!!!! Again, John, PAPYRUS runs HAWAII... If there is a problem the IVGA can't: 1). Detect cheating as its thier system 2). Its PApyrus responsibility to clean up hawaii not the IVGA If I asked Ed Martin or Dave Matson to fix or clean up something they would die laughing!!!! ITS A PAPYRUS PROBLEM, THEY CREATED IT, THEY WOULDNT FIX IT. THE IVGA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HAWAII OR THAN ENJOY IT. PERSONALLY I HAVE TO PROBLEM RACING AGAINST ANY KNOW DRIVER AND STILL WIN OVER 50% of My races... Lets hope for NRO.. and Remember HAWAII is a beta testing enviroment to insure we have a great NRO platform to race on!!!! Don Wilshe, IVGA

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> John: > > Also, as a IVGA member I don't believe that RHuggins is acting as an > > IVGA representative in this situation, but I can't help agree that it > > doesn't portray the type of image I would hope for. > John, Lots of people are doing testing for PAPYRUS and until we get rid > of > HAWAII and papyrus replaces this enviroment with a cheat proof system we > will have problems. You know Papyrus hasnt given us a fix for anything > on HAWAII on over 6 months.. They dont care so why should we!!!! > > In a nutshell, if cheating is occuring I would hope that the IVGA would > > distance itself from this situation and Rhuggins would have the > > integrity to admit it and only use a certain Hawaii handle when cheating > > (ie... Cheater)!! :-) > Again, John, PAPYRUS runs HAWAII... If there is a problem the IVGA > can't: > 1). Detect cheating as its thier system > 2). Its PApyrus responsibility to clean up hawaii not the IVGA > If I asked Ed Martin or Dave Matson to fix or clean up something they > would > die laughing!!!! > ITS A PAPYRUS PROBLEM, THEY CREATED IT, THEY WOULDNT FIX IT. THE IVGA > HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HAWAII OR THAN ENJOY IT. PERSONALLY I HAVE > TO PROBLEM RACING AGAINST ANY KNOW DRIVER AND STILL WIN OVER 50% of My > races... > Lets hope for NRO.. and Remember HAWAII is a beta testing enviroment > to insure we have a great NRO platform to race on!!!! > Don Wilshe, IVGA

So again Don you dodge the question.I guess you are saying that if a person is able to cheat in the Hawaii enviorment then its ok to do so if Papyrus cant detect it .Its Papys problem since its there prototype.You continually put them down as saying they havent realeased any patches for it in 6 months well i hope they have figured out the hack codes and figureout all the detections for them and start you all at the botttom when NRO comes around.You do not denounce cheating at all in your statement which tells me alot about your character. Paul

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> On Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:23:45 -0500, Brad Dawson > >As far as the replays, anyone can get their own sometime. I have some, I have seen Toms, > >and they all look pretty similar. Huggins is fast in them all! How do the "fast guys" do > >180 in the turns at Atlanta? > Your first criteria, is rear bias.. camber... The ever important > shocks.. Fine tune the "apex".. Left bias/rear bias, wedge... My > stagger is at 0.000" > I don't know. I'd like to find out. I have their replays > >too! I don't think they are cheating just because they are smokkin me. > 180s is possible in the turns.. My Blap in Atlanta is a 192.006mph.. > Not hacked!! > take care > Julian "Mr. Turtle" Data > IVGA Member 0004 > The N2 "SkunksWorks" is in progress > Verite/3DFX owner

Julian you said this "Your first criteria, is rear bias.. camber... The ever important Paul

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> On Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:23:45 -0500, Brad Dawson > >As far as the replays, anyone can get their own sometime. I have some, I have seen Toms, > >and they all look pretty similar. Huggins is fast in them all! How do the "fast guys" do > >180 in the turns at Atlanta? > Your first criteria, is rear bias.. camber... The ever important > shocks.. Fine tune the "apex".. Left bias/rear bias, wedge... My > stagger is at 0.000" > I don't know. I'd like to find out. I have their replays > >too! I don't think they are cheating just because they are smokkin me. > 180s is possible in the turns.. My Blap in Atlanta is a 192.006mph.. > Not hacked!! > take care > Julian "Mr. Turtle" Data > IVGA Member 0004 > The N2 "SkunksWorks" is in progress > Verite/3DFX owner

My last post didnt send right but here Julian is what i was asking :) You said > Your first criteria, is rear bias.. camber... The ever important shocks.. Fine tune the "apex".. Left bias/rear bias, wedge... My stagger is at 0.000" well since when were we able to mess with rear camber in Nascar?????? Its not in my garage of setups hmmmmm maybe thats why you are so fast at all the tracks??? I dont know you and have never raced against you so maybe you are legite but it makes you wonder, but please explain the rear camber thing for sure!! Paul

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>>BTW, Huggins DID admit to CHEATING a while back on this newsgroup. >>He also said that he would only cheat when using a TESTER## user >>id in the future. Unless I'm convinced otherwise, I think he has forgotten >>his promise :-( >That WAS back then over the summer. He was helping out Papy. I don't >know if he still is..

Sure looks like he's been seduced by the "Dark Side" ;-) "Industry, economy, honesty and kindness form a quartette of virtues that will never be improved upon" - James Oliver Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

Guess, I have read enough. All the programmers are working on NRO. I have asked for a few simple fixes on Hawaii that would benifit a series that I help run but there is just nobody to do it now. Any how you define cheating defines your character Brian Tate

Sure, there are a handful of racers who seem to have God-like speed and indestructable cars...if you've logged enough hours on Hawaii to work into the double-digit skill levels you've no doubt encountered a few. However, it's important to remember the names of the people you race against, if there is someone you suspect is cheating the system...don't race against him..it's quite simple. I've never really had a problem with any of the guys mentioned. I usually race the track rather than the drivers...and finishing in one piece is more often than not the goal. A number of things contribute to having a fast car...not just the setup. You have to factor in processor speed, latency, the quality and calibration of your wheel/stick, and more than anything else..EXPERIENCE. If you know you can't beat John Smith, then try to beat Joe Jones, or whomever. Personally I would rather be beaten by a hacker than taken out by some moron who finds it hilarious to park in the tri-oval at Dega (seems we've had a rash of these lately). Everything will come full circle when the NROS finally goes live. Trevor Keane "DirtDevil"

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> Sure, there are a handful of racers who seem to have God-like speed and > indestructable cars...if you've logged enough hours on Hawaii to work into > the double-digit skill levels you've no doubt encountered a few. However, > it's important to remember the names of the people you race against, if > there is someone you suspect is cheating the system...don't race against > him..it's quite simple. I've never really had a problem with any of the > guys mentioned. I usually race the track rather than the drivers...and > finishing in one piece is more often than not the goal. A number of things > contribute to having a fast car...not just the setup. You have to factor > in processor speed, latency, the quality and calibration of your > wheel/stick, and more than anything else..EXPERIENCE. If you know you > can't beat John Smith, then try to beat Joe Jones, or whomever. Personally > I would rather be beaten by a hacker than taken out by some moron who > finds it hilarious to park in the tri-oval at Dega (seems we've had a rash > of these lately). Everything will come full circle when the NROS finally > goes live. > Trevor Keane > "DirtDevil"

I agree 100% with this guy!

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>> is this guy a joke or is he,lets give some info > aaaahhhhhh Mr. VLX400....have I got a replay for you.... > I dont know how funny he is but he's certainly one of the more >"creative" racers to grace the shores of our virtual HAWAII. > I myself am not much of a computer person, bought my first one when >Nascar 1 came out, but I DO know when I've been snookered, and in the >last year and a half of watching replays I've NEVER seen anyone else have >the "setup" talent to make their car LUNGE out of the turns at Atlanta at >speeds that go from 168 to 218 mph in bursts of speed that would amaze >any roadrunner.

SNIP.... How can that be cheating. He has obviouslly got a Nitros Oxide kit installed into his car....:-) Shane Lansky Hobart,Tasmania Australia

Brad, since you requested this I thought I would go ahead and post this email that was done in response to an incident I was involved in on Hawaii. Like, Hawaii the ego's and attitudes here on RAS do get out of line on occasion and don't really contribute much and detract a whole lot. I would like to thank KJames(Hawaii ID) for posting this as it does certainly put alot of things into perspective. As some of you know I have decided that I will no longer be racing on Hawaii after a year and a half and doubt whether I will be involved in NRO. This is no reflection on Papyrus or any of the many people that will be involved in bringing this to fruition and I hope it is a tremendous success. But when people you consider friends let their ego's get bigger than the game and they become obsessed to win at all costs, then I have decided it is time to move on. This in no way excuses me to then play the game with the same mentality they choose to. If its not fun why bother! I hope those who haven't read this before can obtain the same message out of it that I have and maybe you can apply some of the lessons I have learned to conduct here on RAS and on Hawaii(NRO). If the message is too deep for some no need flaming as I will understand where it is coming from! Regards Pete ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just wanted to share a small personal insight with all my fellow midwest2 league members. I am the guy most of you pass by in the chat rooms as well as on the race track sunday evenings.A few of you acknowledge my exitence (thanks Blair , Bob, Barry :) I asked to join this league because I was told how good , clean and patient players you all are. Seems as of late , The patience has been somewhat lacking to say the least.I hope maybe I can get a few of you thinking about what we are all here for. I raced with a friend I met about 2 years ago on the internet modem racer's list. We raced every afternoon before I had to go to work. His name was Mark Piscatelli. I looked forward to the phone ringing after lunch and hearing the familiar, "Yo , wanna race?" We raced together for quite a few months till the Hawaii racing opened to th public. Mark was totally thrilled with the fact that we could race with real people all over the country and beyond. He started a league called "WWR" . We had a ball racing a different track every Saturday morning. We went to Charlotte one sat. Mark was an excellent competitor and always raced clean and hard. That morning we were about 3/4 of the way through our 30% race and Mark was 2nd to Gary Hamen . I was following Mark in 3rd place. I was right on his rear bumper coming off of turn 4 . Mark slid a bit high in the first dogleg and I dove underneath him. He did not see me below him and knocked me into the infield. He went on to win his 1st online race. Being the stupid ass that I WAS! , I got pissed at him for the incident and did not even have the intelligence to realize he had his first win and was extremely proud of it. I should have been ther congratulating him , instead I acted like a total ass for the next week or so. After I finally got over it , I called him up. No answer. I found out 3 weeks later after not hearing from him , he was in the hospital. year before I met him , he was diagnosed with Leukemia. He had a bone marrow transplant but was suffering from complications from this terrible disease. He called me from his hospital bed in Johns Hopkins hospital in Baltimore. He told me what was going on but was more interested in talking about racing.He told his wife that if anyone else but me called , he did not want to talk to them. He told her that he enjoyed talking to me because I did not constantly ask him about his condition. This "game" we played got his mind off of the terrible pain he was suffering from. You can not imagine how horribly stupid I felt getting upset with him over a meaningless computer game accident. Mark came home a couple of weeks after being in the hospital. As soon as he was home , he called me. That was a Sat. morning. His wife had gone out and bought him a new T-2 steering wheel and pedal set. He had been racing me with a joystick all this time . He was confined to the house for an indefinite period of time and the computer and the nascar game was his escape. He told me he got the t-2 and was gonna hook it up so we could race sat. evening. He was suffering from a bad headache and need to rest for awhile. I called him sat. evening and his wife told me he was trying to sleep off a really bad headache and that he would call me sunday afternoon. I did not hear from him that sunday. I called and left messages but did not hear from him.That wednesday we saw his name in the paper. He had a massive brain hemmorage that caused the headaches. Nobody knew till he woke up late saturday nite with multiple seizures. Mark passed away that sunday morning. I never got to tell him how sorry I was for acting so damn stupid over the Charlotte race. I miss him very badly. We were alot more than game competiters, we were friends. I was fortunate enough to meet him in person right before he got sick the last time. We met at a local go-kart track and arcade center . I will never forget how much he enjoyed that morning racing go-karts and playing the sega daytona usa games. I can still hear him laughing and yelling as we banged doors . I would give up every position I ever gained just to have him here to share races as well as his friendship with again. After he passed away , his wife , Lori , called me to tell me she wanted me to have his T-2 setup. He never had the opportunity to race with it. She told me that Mark wanted me to have it because he enjoyed talking and racing with me. He valued the fact that I did not ask about his condition all the time. If he wanted me to know about it , that was up to him to decide , not me. That meant alot to Mark. My wife and I both think of him everyday. Evertime I sit down to race , I grab the wheel and think of Mark. I will never forget him. He taught me a lesson in humility that I will never forget. Thankyou Mark.....You will always be with me. Please remember that there is a very valuable human being attached to the seemingly meaningless computer screen name that feels pain , joy and every thing we all feel. Try to keep in perspective the fact that it don't mean shit if you win the game if there is no one there to share the victory with you. It's the friends that you make while playing that are important. I hope to someday call you guys my friends and earn your respect by the fact that I gave you mine.The biggest trip-up we have is this damned skill level system . Along with the higher skill level comes a much greater responsibility to show us lesser players how ya got there in the first place. That may include alot more give than take sometimes even if it does not seem like what is gonna score the almighty win. My most enjoyable races were for a position rather than a win. Mark and I crossed the finish line side by side many a time , be it for 39th and 40th or 1st and 2nd. If you give the other guy enough room to catch a screw up , you will usually end up finishing the race with them rather than ending it early for you both. If you notice me diving low on the track to get out of your way , it is because I would like to be there at the end of the race to congratulate the winner. Hopefully someday one of you will remember me giving up a position for you and will be there to share my first victory. Sorry guys , I gotta keep the faith, afterall , Earnhardt was a rookie at one time too :) Keith --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad Dawson wrote:

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> The most interesting thing I think, is that Im a loser, that is troubleing me. I wish > Pete Reston had also posted the letter from the guy in the Midwest league, regarding an > incident where someone was upset about an accident. You probably have all seen that > though. Reading that letter should be mandatory before taking the track. Its like > calibrating yourself, as you would cal your wheel before a run. Mr Plattts knows > nothing of me or Mr Huggins, other than Mr Huggins can kick his ass on a simulated race > track. That makes him a loser and all his friends losers too? If I considered everyone > who finished in front of me a loser than 85% of you reading this are losers too! > I know some things about Huggins, not all. What I do know is, he is one hell of a nice > guy. He is an excellent driver. He has never driven through me in a turn. He has never > caused a multi car calamity on the first lap. He does not block the track shamelessly. > He has taught me how to pick up 1.5 mph at Dega in qual, with out leaving the track > surface, without using the pit lane, without hitting any keys. I have never qualed > outside the top 3 in an ACE race at Dega using this technique which could be used by a > real car in a real race no problem. He has volumes of setup research materials. > Tom Eckels who also posted on the other side of this topic is another guy I like a lot. > Both of these guys are sportsman and gentleman, they have both helped me unselfishly,and > they both can kick the crap out of me. Tom beats me by 6 seconds and Huggins beats me by > 10 seconds. No differance to me. They both race me clean, give me tips, congratulate me > on the rare occasion I can beat them, and like to talk about the race afterwards. They > both are real friends. > As far as the replays, anyone can get their own sometime. I have some, I have seen Toms, > and they all look pretty similar. Huggins is fast in them all! How do the "fast guys" do > 180 in the turns at Atlanta? I don't know. I'd like to find out. I have their replays > too! I don't think they are cheating just

... read more »

Pete wrote:

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> Brad, since you requested this I thought I would go ahead and post this > email > that was done in response to an incident I was involved in on Hawaii. > Like, Hawaii the > ego's and attitudes here on RAS do get out of line on occasion and don't > really contribute > much and detract a whole lot. I would like to thank KJames(Hawaii ID) > for posting this as > it does certainly put alot of things into perspective. As some of you > know I have decided > that I will no longer be racing on Hawaii after a year and a half and > doubt whether I will > be involved in NRO. This is no reflection on Papyrus or any of the many > people that will be > involved in bringing this to fruition and I hope it is a tremendous > success. But when people > you consider friends let their ego's get bigger than the game and they > become obsessed to win > at all costs, then I have decided it is time to move on. This in no way > excuses me to then > play the game with the same mentality they choose to. If its not fun why > bother! > I hope those who haven't read this before can obtain the same message > out of it that > I have and maybe you can apply some of the lessons I have learned to > conduct here on RAS and > on Hawaii(NRO). If the message is too deep for some no need flaming as I > will understand > where it is coming from! > Regards Pete > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Just wanted to share a small personal insight with all my fellow > midwest2 > league members. I am the guy most of you pass by in the chat rooms as > well > as on the race track sunday evenings.A few of you acknowledge my > exitence > (thanks Blair , Bob, Barry :) I asked to join this league because I was > told > how good , clean and patient players you all are. Seems as of late , The > patience has been somewhat lacking to say the least.I hope maybe I can > get > a few of you thinking about what we are all here for. > I raced with a friend I met about 2 years ago on the internet modem > racer's list. We raced every afternoon before I had to go to work. His > name > was Mark Piscatelli. I looked forward to the phone ringing after lunch > and > hearing the familiar, "Yo , wanna race?" We raced together for quite a > few > months till the Hawaii racing opened to th public. Mark was totally > thrilled > with the fact that we could race with real people all over the country > and > beyond. He started a league called "WWR" . We had a ball racing a > different > track every Saturday morning. We went to Charlotte one sat. Mark was an > excellent competitor and always raced clean and hard. That morning we > were > about 3/4 of the way through our 30% race and Mark was 2nd to Gary Hamen > . > I was following Mark in 3rd place. I was right on his rear bumper coming > off of turn 4 . Mark slid a bit high in the first dogleg and I dove > underneath him. He did not see me below him and knocked me into the > infield. > He went on to win his 1st online race. Being the stupid ass that I WAS! > , I > got pissed at him for the incident and did not even have the > intelligence to > realize he had his first win and was extremely proud of it. I should > have > been ther congratulating him , instead I acted like a total ass for the > next > week or so. > After I finally got over it , I called him up. No answer. I > found out 3 weeks later after not hearing from him , he was in the > hospital. > year before I met him , he was diagnosed with Leukemia. He had a bone > marrow > transplant but was suffering from complications from this terrible > disease. > He called me from his hospital bed in Johns Hopkins hospital in > Baltimore. > He told me what was going on but was more interested in talking about > racing.He told his wife that if anyone else but me called , he did not > want > to talk to them. He told her that he enjoyed talking to me because I did > not > constantly ask him about his condition. This "game" we played got his > mind > off of the terrible pain he was suffering from. You can not imagine how > horribly stupid I felt getting upset with him over a meaningless > computer > game accident. Mark came home a couple of weeks after being in the > hospital. > As soon as he was home , he called me. That was a Sat. morning. His wife > had > gone out and bought him a new T-2 steering wheel and pedal set. He had > been > racing me with a joystick all this time . He was confined to the house > for > an indefinite period of time and the computer and the nascar game was > his > escape. He told me he got the t-2 and was gonna hook it up so we could > race > sat. evening. He was suffering from a bad headache and need to rest for > awhile. I called him sat. evening and his wife told me he was trying to > sleep off a really bad headache and that he would call me sunday > afternoon. > I did not hear from him that sunday. I called and left messages but > did not > hear from him.That wednesday we saw his name in the paper. He had a > massive > brain hemmorage that caused the headaches. Nobody knew till he woke up > late > saturday nite with multiple seizures. Mark passed away that sunday > morning. > I never got to tell him how sorry I was for acting so damn stupid over > the > Charlotte race. I miss him very badly. We were alot more than game > competiters, we were friends. I was fortunate enough to meet him in > person > right before he got sick the last time. We met at a local go-kart track > and > arcade center . I will never forget how much he enjoyed that morning > racing > go-karts and playing the sega daytona usa games. I can still hear him > laughing and yelling as we banged doors . I would give up every position > I > ever gained just to have him here to share races as well as his > friendship > with again. After he passed away , his wife , Lori , called me to tell > me > she wanted me to have his T-2 setup. He never had the opportunity to > race > with it. She told me that Mark wanted me to have it because he enjoyed > talking and racing with me. He valued the fact that I did not ask about > his > condition all the time. If he wanted me to know about it , that was up > to > him to decide , not me. That meant alot to Mark. My wife and I both > think of > him everyday. Evertime I sit down to race , I grab the wheel and think > of > Mark. I will never forget him. He taught me a lesson in humility that I > will > never forget. Thankyou Mark.....You will always be with me. > Please remember that there is a very valuable human being attached to > the > seemingly meaningless computer screen name that feels pain , joy and > every > thing we all feel. Try to keep in perspective the fact that it don't > mean > shit if you win the game if there is no one there to share the victory > with you. It's the friends that you make while playing that are > important. > I hope to someday call you guys my friends and earn your respect by the > fact > that I gave you mine.The biggest trip-up we have is this damned skill > level > system . Along with the higher skill level comes a much greater > responsibility to show us lesser players how ya got there in the first > place. That may include alot more give than take sometimes even if it > does > not seem like what is gonna score the almighty win. My most enjoyable > races > were for a position rather than a win. Mark and I crossed the finish > line > side by side many a time , be it for 39th and 40th or 1st and 2nd. If > you > give the other guy enough room to catch a screw up , you will usually > end up > finishing the race with them rather than ending it early for you both. > If > you notice me diving low on the track to get out of your way , it is > because > I would like to be there at the end of the race to congratulate the > winner. > Hopefully someday one of you will remember me giving up a position for > you > and will be there to share my first victory. Sorry guys , I gotta keep > the > faith, afterall , Earnhardt was a rookie at one time too :) > Keith > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Brad Dawson wrote: > > The most interesting thing I think, is that Im a loser, that is troubleing me. I wish > > Pete Reston had also posted the letter from the guy in the Midwest league, regarding an > > incident where someone was upset about an accident. You probably have all seen that > > though. Reading that letter should be mandatory before taking the track. Its like > > calibrating yourself, as you would cal your wheel before a run. Mr Plattts knows > > nothing of me or Mr Huggins, other than Mr Huggins can kick his ass on a simulated race > > track. That makes him a loser and all his friends losers too? If I considered everyone > > who finished in front of me a loser than 85% of you reading this are losers too! > > I know some things about Huggins, not all. What I do know is, he is one hell of a nice > > guy. He is an excellent driver. He has never driven through me in a turn. He has never > > caused a multi car calamity on the first lap. He does not block the track shamelessly. > > He has taught me how to pick up 1.5 mph at Dega in qual, with out leaving the track > > surface, without using the pit lane, without hitting any keys. I have never qualed > > outside the top 3 in an ACE race at Dega using this technique which could be used by a > > real car in a real race no problem. He has volumes of setup research materials. > > Tom Eckels who also posted on the other side of this topic is another guy I like a lot. > > Both of these guys are sportsman and gentleman, they have both helped me unselfishly,and > > they both can kick the crap out of me. Tom beats me by 6 seconds and Huggins beats me by > > 10 seconds. No differance to me. They both race me clean, give me tips, congratulate me > > on the rare occasion I can beat them, and like to talk about the race

... read more »

Is there a reason you left all the previous post in yours?

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> >Sure looks like he's been seduced by the "Dark Side" ;-) > Where's Luke??;-) > take care > Julian "Mr. Turtle" Data > IVGA Member 0004 > The N2 "SkunksWorks" is in progress > Verite/3DFX owner

You don't know the power of the Dark Side... :) Good race at the Brickyard, (Old'Indytrack guy in rec.autos.simulators) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ =ymenard now!!! SPEED- http://www.nascarnet.com/~speed [===] Go Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, | ! | And all you that thinks that Jacques Villeneuve is |!| from Canada, your right!! He's from St-Jean sur le |o| Richelieu, 30 minutes from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [--I--] v Fran?ois Mnard "Wasupe LeGrand" May the force be with you, always!! Que la force soit avec toi, jamais!(for you French people) Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking)