Please do not arm N3

I saw the talk about what features NASCAR 3 would include, and I am not so enthusiastic about one part of it all, namely the arms moving round in the 3D***pit. The***pit itself sounds like a great idea, but I'm not so sure about arms steering the car and changing gears. Why? Well, because my hands steer the car, and my hands are in front of the screen, not inside it. Likewise, my hands change gear. Neither the steering wheel nor the gearshift lever is inside the screen, but in front of it. Even if you're using a joystick, that is still the steering wheel. In front of the monitor! I do not put my hands inside the monitor when I steer the car or change gears. Since I know that some people will find the hands really neat, I advise Papyrus/Sierra to make it an option. Because I sure prefer the way it is in ICR2 and N2, ie no hands, no steering wheel and no gearshift lever on the screen. Thank you, / Fredrik Meyer [link lost in import: /~w-59407/index.html]

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>I saw the talk about what features NASCAR 3 would include, and I am not so >enthusiastic about one part of it all, namely the arms moving round in the >3D***pit.<snip> >Why? Well, because my hands steer the car, and my hands are in front of the >screen, not inside it. Likewise, my hands change gear. Neither the steering >wheel nor the gearshift lever is inside the screen, but in front of it.<snip> >Since I know that some people will find the hands really neat, I advise >Papyrus/Sierra to make it an option.<snip>

I'll second the motion! Mike Radler Hawaii Ace League [link lost in import]

Good point Fredrik.... I like yourself don't want hands and arms on the screen. If any of you guys watched the Movie on the BGN Track Pack disk...... there you can see the "Arms and Hands" in the Grand Prix Legends part of the movie....... I think it looks kinda goofy :^) Now after you go and watch....think to yourself.... Do we really need 'Arms and Hands' ??? I personally don't think so.... These are just my .02 !! -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Doug Maer N2 RULES!!!! "Somebody's gonna wreck, let it be the other guy!" See ya in the pits!!!!

I agree. Why would I want to see another set of hands when I can see mine already? I've seen this in Need for Speed and didn't like it. Sierra, please do not make this part of N3!!! Bart

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>I saw the talk about what features NASCAR 3 would include, and I am not so >enthusiastic about one part of it all, namely the arms moving round in the >3D***pit. The***pit itself sounds like a great idea, but I'm not so >sure about arms steering the car and changing gears. >Why? Well, because my hands steer the car, and my hands are in front of the >screen, not inside it. Likewise, my hands change gear. Neither the steering >wheel nor the gearshift lever is inside the screen, but in front of it. >Even if you're using a joystick, that is still the steering wheel. In front >of the monitor! I do not put my hands inside the monitor when I steer the >car or change gears. >Since I know that some people will find the hands really neat, I advise >Papyrus/Sierra to make it an option. Because I sure prefer the way it is in >ICR2 and N2, ie no hands, no steering wheel and no gearshift lever on the >screen. >Thank you, >/ Fredrik Meyer >[link lost in import: /~w-59407/index.html]

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> I saw the talk about what features NASCAR 3 would include, and I am not so > enthusiastic about one part of it all, namely the arms moving round in the > 3D***pit. The***pit itself sounds like a great idea, but I'm not so > sure about arms steering the car and changing gears. > Why? Well, because my hands steer the car, and my hands are in front of the > screen, not inside it. Likewise, my hands change gear. Neither the steering > wheel nor the gearshift lever is inside the screen, but in front of it. > Even if you're using a joystick, that is still the steering wheel. In front > of the monitor! I do not put my hands inside the monitor when I steer the > car or change gears. > Since I know that some people will find the hands really neat, I advise > Papyrus/Sierra to make it an option. Because I sure prefer the way it is in > ICR2 and N2, ie no hands, no steering wheel and no gearshift lever on the > screen. > Thank you, > / Fredrik Meyer > [link lost in import: /~w-59407/index.html]

I have to second that opinion. I think adding the arms and hands will give it much more of an arcade look. I don't want to feel like I'm driving someone else around the track. The 3D***pit sounds like it might be cool, but please don't include the arms. Jay Taylor Windy City Motorsports

Ans just think of the frame rate hit that a total 3D***pit is gonna cost us! In my estimation N3 is gonna be a P266 + game that will need a 3D card just to maintain an acceptable frame rate. Ahhhh time marches on! -Jody-

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> Good point Fredrik.... > I like yourself don't want hands and arms on the screen. > If any of you guys watched the Movie on the BGN > Track Pack disk...... there you can see the "Arms and > Hands" in the Grand Prix Legends part of the movie....... > I think it looks kinda goofy :^) > Now after you go and watch....think to yourself.... > Do we really need 'Arms and Hands' ??? > I personally don't think so.... > These are just my .02 !! > --

% I saw the talk about what features NASCAR 3 would include, and I am not so % enthusiastic about one part of it all, namely the arms moving round in the % 3D***pit. The***pit itself sounds like a great idea, but I'm not so % sure about arms steering the car and changing gears. % Why? Well, because my hands steer the car, and my hands are in front of the % screen, not inside it. Likewise, my hands change gear. Neither the steering % wheel nor the gearshift lever is inside the screen, but in front of it. % Even if you're using a joystick, that is still the steering wheel. In front % of the monitor! I do not put my hands inside the monitor when I steer the % car or change gears. I whole heartedly agree with you 1000.1%!!!! This is not what I want to see. I think Papy is planning on doing this with GPL. There is also another reason for not wanting wheel/arms/gear-lever in the***pit view. If they are animated this takes CPU time that could and should be used for other things (improved AI and framerate). % Since I know that some people will find the hands really neat, I advise % Papyrus/Sierra to make it an option. Because I sure prefer the way it is in % ICR2 and N2, ie no hands, no steering wheel and no gearshift lever on the % screen. Again RIGHT ON! If Papy in their finite wisdom deem that there is enough "paying" public that just MUST have Mickey Mouse arms driving the car, make it an option that one can turn off! This is a simulation and I am the driver not Mickey Mouse (or Minnie). -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% Good point Fredrik.... % I like yourself don't want hands and arms on the screen. % If any of you guys watched the Movie on the BGN % Track Pack disk...... there you can see the "Arms and % Hands" in the Grand Prix Legends part of the movie....... % I think it looks kinda goofy :^) OH NO!!! I thought they looked "Mickey Mouse-y". Now you are telling me that Goofy will be driving my car? It get worse! Papy, please please please don't do it!!!! And if you must please be faithful to your faithful SIM fans by giving us the option to nix the arms and wheels. % Now after you go and watch....think to yourself.... % Do we really need 'Arms and Hands' ??? % I personally don't think so.... % These are just my .02 !! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

But I thought you want the game to be realistic

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>Ans just think of the frame rate hit that a total 3D***pit is gonna >cost us! In my estimation N3 is gonna be a P266 + game that will need a >3D card just to maintain an acceptable frame rate. Ahhhh time marches >on! >-Jody- >> Good point Fredrik.... >> I like yourself don't want hands and arms on the screen. >> If any of you guys watched the Movie on the BGN >> Track Pack disk...... there you can see the "Arms and >> Hands" in the Grand Prix Legends part of the movie....... >> I think it looks kinda goofy :^) >> Now after you go and watch....think to yourself.... >> Do we really need 'Arms and Hands' ??? >> I personally don't think so.... >> These are just my .02 !! >> --

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> > I saw the talk about what features NASCAR 3 would include, and I am not so > > enthusiastic about one part of it all, namely the arms moving round in the > > 3D***pit. The***pit itself sounds like a great idea, but I'm not so > > sure about arms steering the car and changing gears. > > Why? Well, because my hands steer the car, and my hands are in front of the > > screen, not inside it. Likewise, my hands change gear. Neither the steering > > wheel nor the gearshift lever is inside the screen, but in front of it. > > Even if you're using a joystick, that is still the steering wheel. In front > > of the monitor! I do not put my hands inside the monitor when I steer the > > car or change gears. > > Since I know that some people will find the hands really neat, I advise > > Papyrus/Sierra to make it an option. Because I sure prefer the way it is in > > ICR2 and N2, ie no hands, no steering wheel and no gearshift lever on the > > screen. > > Thank you, > > / Fredrik Meyer > > [link lost in import: /~w-59407/index.html] > I have to second that opinion. I think adding the arms and hands will > give it much more of an arcade look. I don't want to feel like I'm > driving someone else around the track. The 3D***pit sounds like it > might be cool, but please don't include the arms. > Jay Taylor > Windy City Motorsports

Does anyone think that they might be adding all these improved (and unnecessary) graphical components because they really don't have any new milestones in the simulated racing aspect of the product? To date, NASCAR and NASCAR2 have been the best racing sims out there, but they still have shortcomings (and the graphics are the least of these). For example, why don't the fix the problems with NASCAR2 first before expecting everyone to buy NASCAR3? There are still bugs in the modem racing and the single player mode of the current incarnation. These are things that should be addressed before adding some schmuck waving his hands around in front of the windshield or the ability to see "better crashes" as I believe the interview said. JMG

I'll disagree with you. The reason some of the flaws of N1 and N2 are not fixed is because it could be the design engine. N3 will be a re-write which means things can be fixed that could not be done in the prievous versions. N2 would of been great to have double file restarts but the AI was just not capable of doing this as well as negotiating wrecked cars. If you rewrite the engine and the sim itself, you can program a smarter AI so you can do some of these extra features. Brian