WARNING!- Don't buy MS CPR yet!

I try to be polite when posting, and not denegrate anyone's work, but I am really tired of spending PREMIUM prices for software from the industry's top manufacturers and getting crap. CPR plays OK usually; if you can ever get to the track. The menus often don't respond and you have to reload the track every time you adjust your car. The enjoyment of racing soon dissappears after wrestling with the menus to get from place to place. I usually get disgusted and exit the game after about 10 minutes. If you are planning to purchase MS CPR you should do yourself a favor and wait and see if the expected patch fixes the program. (If anyone from Microsoft is reading this: What's up with the patch, anyway--you didn't have to wait several weeks for me to send you half of the money--where's the other half of my program?). CPR has great potential and I hope the folks at MS get everything worked out, but for now the mere moments of pleasure I get from the game are totally eclipsed by the aggravation of its cumbersome menus. W. Spilman

Isn't that is the point of CPR? Letting you to adjust your car settings? In addition, there are setup files for your car, which you can download. The point is that you have to fine-tune your car "before" you race. That is perparation. -- Victor Chan

On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:34:07 -0500, "Victor Chan" >Isn't that is the point of CPR? Letting you to adjust your car settings? >In addition, there are setup files for your car, which you can download. >The point is that you have to fine-tune your car "before" you race. That is >perparation. I believe he is talking about having to wait to re-load the track after every adjustment that you make. When you are tweaking settings in your pre-race preparations, you must run some laps, go to the garage, run some more laps, go back to the garage, etc. What the original poster is complaining about is not the actual process of tweaking, which is part of any good racing sim, but having to wait through the track loading every time. It becomes a very time consuming process. Don Chapman

I have both the full versions of CPR and F1 racing and if you think CPR is slow you better not try F1 cause CPR smokes in track loading compared to F1 hehe. But I love both and drive them both daily.I think its true that software is being released earlier than it should but having come from flight sims I have gotten used to it needing patches. Im not saying its right though in some ways I think of us all as the final testers and I think as long as the companies listen and respond well I can live with most of the bugs for a short while. Aloha, Mike

If you work on your car using "test drive" mode (toward the upper right corner of the garage), rather than "race mode", then you only have to load the track once. After returning to the garage to change your setup, going back to the track in test drive mode is nearly instantaneous. Since discovering this, I never go to the race menu until I am ready to start a race weekend. Jim Getzen Unofficial CART Precision Racing HQ http://members.home.net/getzen/ >On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:34:07 -0500, "Victor Chan" >>Isn't that is the point of CPR? Letting you to adjust your car settings? >>In addition, there are setup files for your car, which you can download. >>The point is that you have to fine-tune your car "before" you race. That is

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>>perparation. >I believe he is talking about having to wait to re-load the track >after every adjustment that you make. When you are tweaking settings >in your pre-race preparations, you must run some laps, go to the >garage, run some more laps, go back to the garage, etc. What the >original poster is complaining about is not the actual process of >tweaking, which is part of any good racing sim, but having to wait >through the track loading every time. It becomes a very time consuming >process. >Don Chapman

I agree. I have 48 MB of RAM. It does not take a lot of time for CPR to reload the track. Also, the track loading would be instantaneous if you stick to the same track while you adjust the car. -- Victor Chan

Hi, Track loading is a couple of seconds if that and is 'reloaded' regardless of changing any setup. I think the advertising mentions that you can download the actual times and setups for the most current CART racing seasons. I definatly remeber seeing about 2 months ago but it is not in the game. It would more than likely be implemented into the Zone, and just be a pointer to the CART racing website. Best Regards Trevor Dwyer >I agree. I have 48 MB of RAM. It does not take a lot of time for CPR to >reload the track. Also, the track loading would be instantaneous if you >stick to the same track while you adjust the car. >-- >Victor Chan

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> On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:34:07 -0500, "Victor Chan" > >Isn't that is the point of CPR? Letting you to adjust your car settings? > >In addition, there are setup files for your car, which you can download. > >The point is that you have to fine-tune your car "before" you race. That is > >perparation. > I believe he is talking about having to wait to re-load the track > after every adjustment that you make. When you are tweaking settings > in your pre-race preparations, you must run some laps, go to the > garage, run some more laps, go back to the garage, etc. What the > original poster is complaining about is not the actual process of > tweaking, which is part of any good racing sim, but having to wait > through the track loading every time. It becomes a very time consuming > process. > Don Chapman

Well, when I do that the track loads almost instantaneously after the 1st load. Probably a matter of insufficient ram.

Well said, mate. It's a shame I've already bought this crap. The scum bag sales man who sold it to me by telling me it's as good, if not better than GP2, can kiss my arse. I have an idea. Wouldn't it be good for racing sims to display a rating derived from votes and comments from rec.autos.simulators. I bet the programmers would worry more about selling us crap.

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>I try to be polite when posting, and not denegrate anyone's work, but I am >really tired of spending PREMIUM prices for software from the industry's >top manufacturers and getting crap. CPR plays OK usually; if you can ever >get to the track. The menus often don't respond and you have to reload the >track every time you adjust your car. The enjoyment of racing soon >dissappears after wrestling with the menus to get from place to place. I >usually get disgusted and exit the game after about 10 minutes. >If you are planning to purchase MS CPR you should do yourself a favor and >wait and see if the expected patch fixes the program. (If anyone from >Microsoft is reading this: What's up with the patch, anyway--you didn't >have to wait several weeks for me to send you half of the money--where's >the other half of my program?). >CPR has great potential and I hope the folks at MS get everything worked >out, but for now the mere moments of pleasure I get from the game are >totally eclipsed by the aggravation of its cumbersome menus. >W. Spilman

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>Well said, mate. It's a shame I've already bought this crap. The scum bag >sales man who sold it to me by telling me it's as good, if not better than >GP2, can kiss my arse. >I have an idea. Wouldn't it be good for racing sims to display a rating >derived from votes and comments from rec.autos.simulators. >I bet the programmers would worry more about selling us crap.

I must say that I agree totally! MSCPR is pure ***in my opinion. This is first game that I have EVER returned for my money back. Usually I just eat the cost if I don't like a game, because I usually check first on various reviews/demos. This game got some good reviews from online games magazines, so I got suckered. The graphics are pretty ugly (I like ICR2 better), the AI is atrocious, the car is "autopiloted" in the pits and pace lap (should be an option to turn this shit off!) and the list goes on. I *might* buy this again in the $10 bin after all the patches for AI and glide are available, but I won't recommend it at all now. Rob "Dead Meat"

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> Well said, mate. It's a shame I've already bought this crap. The scum bag > sales man who sold it to me by telling me it's as good, if not better than > GP2, can kiss my arse. > I have an idea. Wouldn't it be good for racing sims to display a rating > derived from votes and comments from rec.autos.simulators. > I bet the programmers would worry more about selling us crap.

I just can't understand how your here now and not before buying CPR. How did you manage that? Oh well, ya live and ya learn! It may be better after the patch but I dunno. I have a iP233mmx + Diamond Viper 330 and the fps are not even good enough in test mode unless your in HUD mode with minimal graphics. And who want's Hud mode? This patch should be real interesting. I'm betting this board will be on fire with angry people galore within the fortnight. :)

Well this is all kinda confusing did I get the only good CPR in stock<ggg> I swear this sim is pretty dang good by me. I get 27-35fps the car was a little twitchy at first but hey show me one that isn't. The menus load quick the folks that developed it ARE trying to fix the bugs that people have pointed out. The race engineer is really a cool tool for folks starting out and a good way to see what would be changed to produce what results. Sorry I dont mean to get preachy but, it seems like an awful lot of whining. Does the new vaulted F1rs have ANY bugs? I just wonder if I were a sim developer and had obviously put a ton of work into trying to give folks like us what they want and read the flames here if I wouldn't just give it up. I say they did quite well and they are TRYING to do even better. We were given a good Demo to try if we couldn't live with the bugs till a patch then why buy the game? All Im saying here is please give the CPR flames a rest. I have F1rs, CPR, & ICR2 all of them have problems and it will be great if all is fixed but hey I love them all. We are very lucky to have them IMHO. Aloha, Mike . > > I bet the programmers would worry more about selling us crap. I'm betting this board will be on fire with angry

Sorry Mike, but with all due respect it is precisely the above sort of attitude that will ensure unfinished and buggy software continues to be released rather than fixed. How many other industries are allowed to ship products in this condition? The attitude is take your money now and then _maybe_ fix it later (or maybe not). If you think that is acceptable, I've got some SIMMs I'd like to sell you - they have some bit errors in them which cause your PC to crash now and again, but if you'll give me the money I'll look for some replacement DRAMs and replace the defective chips for you later... Doesn't work, does it? Ever wonder why Playstation or Nintendo software works first time? Could it be that you can't patch those? You either get it right the first time or the product sinks and dies - the same way it used to be in the PC software industry. With consoles the risk in releasing unfinished or buggy software is massively increased, and the software releases reflect that. With PC software we are currently making the bed we'll have to lie in. Cheers! John

I have a question: >Well this is all kinda confusing did I get the only good CPR in stock<ggg> >I swear this sim is pretty dang good by me. I get 27-35fps the car was a How did you find out the frame rate? thanks

Hi, Just type FRAME while in sim and a fps counter will appear in lower right corner. Also more codes available like BRAVO fixes when the AI bump you it dosent throw you off course so badly.More type codes at some of the CPR sites.

> More type codes at some of the CPR sites. Could you post some links to those sites please? --GTIracer

You'll be able to find the most codes at the Apex at http://cart.gamestats.com If you want a good list of links to other CART sites, please stop by the CART P.R. Playground at http://www.msu.edu/user/mcclosk6/cart/cart.htm and click on "CART Links" in the frame. Hope you find what you're looking for! Mike McCloskey CART P.R. Playground http://www.msu.edu/user/mcclosk6/cart/cart.htm >> More type codes at some of the CPR sites. >Could you post some links to those sites please? >--GTIracer

Type FRAME while playing the game. The frame rate will be displayed in the bottom right hand corner. You can find out more information about CART PR at The APEX http://cart.gamestats.com Thanks John

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>I have a question: > >>Well this is all kinda confusing did I get the only good CPR in stock >>I swear this sim is pretty dang good by me. I get 27-35fps the car was a > >How did you find out the frame rate? > >thanks > > >

Could you please tell us the specs on your machine, and what detail level you are at to get those kind of frame rates? I can't even approach 20 fps, and am frustrated as hell. I will try to keep opened minded, if someone could tell me how they are getting these frame rates. Thanks. David

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> Well this is all kinda confusing did I get the only good CPR in stock<ggg> > I swear this sim is pretty dang good by me. I get 27-35fps the car was a > little twitchy at first but hey show me one that isn't. The menus load > quick the folks that developed it ARE trying to fix the bugs that people > have pointed out. The race engineer is really a cool tool for folks > starting out and a good way to see what would be changed to produce what > results. Sorry I dont mean to get preachy but, it seems like an awful lot > of whining. Does the new vaulted F1rs have ANY bugs? I just wonder if I > were a sim developer and had obviously put a ton of work into trying to > give folks like us what they want and read the flames here if I wouldn't > just give it up. I say they did quite well and they are TRYING to do even > better. We were given a good Demo to try if we couldn't live with the bugs > till a patch then why buy the game? All Im saying here is please give the > CPR flames a rest. I have F1rs, CPR, & ICR2 all of them have problems and > it will be great if all is fixed but hey I love them all. We are very lucky > to have them IMHO. Aloha, Mike > . > > > I bet the programmers would worry more about selling us crap. > I'm betting this board will be on fire with angry > > people galore within the fortnight. :)

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> Well this is all kinda confusing did I get the only good CPR in stock<ggg> > I swear this sim is pretty dang good by me. I get 27-35fps the car was a > little twitchy at first but hey show me one that isn't. The menus load > quick the folks that developed it ARE trying to fix the bugs that people > have pointed out. The race engineer is really a cool tool for folks > starting out and a good way to see what would be changed to produce what > results. Sorry I dont mean to get preachy but, it seems like an awful lot > of whining. Does the new vaulted F1rs have ANY bugs? I just wonder if I > were a sim developer and had obviously put a ton of work into trying to > give folks like us what they want and read the flames here if I wouldn't > just give it up. I say they did quite well and they are TRYING to do even > better. We were given a good Demo to try if we couldn't live with the bugs > till a patch then why buy the game? All Im saying here is please give the > CPR flames a rest. I have F1rs, CPR, & ICR2 all of them have problems and > it will be great if all is fixed but hey I love them all. We are very lucky > to have them IMHO. Aloha, Mike

As some will know, I have been very critical of CPR over the last month. I got a Diamond Viper 330 the other day to go with existing iP233MMX, Aopen AP5t TX MB and 64 meg EDO. CPR is better and I look forward to the patch with great caution :) The next day I was lucky? to find a shop here in Sydney with a few copies of F1RS. Expecting great things I am so far very dissapointed with it. Stutters going around corners and just generally has no feel at all. Not of speed or cornering. I suspect this is a poor choice of perspective from the***pit view on Ubi's part (reminds me of fiddling with keys in CPR). Things seem much better (smoother graphics and better feel) from the nose cone view or the rear car view but who cares. Also, where the hell are the replays? I go to page 31 of the manual and see what to do once at the replay screen but how the hell do you get there in the first place? (Hope I have overlooked something simple) I have heard a lot of very good reports about this game from what I consider reliable sources and was very suprised to see how poorly it performed for me. After visiting Ubi's page I see there are obvious issues with the Viper and the D3D version in general. No system crashes or anything. Just poor performance and terrible feel. The Viper's going back to where it came and I will just have to wait for the Canopus Pure 3d's to be restocked here in Sydney (all sold out over Xmas - apparent worldwide shortage so one place told me). I hope the 3dfx card brings this sim to life but I have read about similar issues from even 3dfx owners ie no feeling of speed, etc. Unless the 3dfx card wakes this game up substantially it will be buried with the Viper and I will be pinning all my hopes on CPR. Poor poor pitiful me. ICR2 may be looking good as the offline internet competition sim of choice for quite some time yet. And GP2 for personal computer racing (not very exciting compared to competing against other people with ICR2 I might add).

Hi, I currently am using a Dell 233MMX PII with 32MB Sdram my video card is the STB Velocity which uses the NividiaRiva 128 chipset this machine is also the newer intel 440lx which is AGP. As far as in sim I am running it according to one of the cart sites: http://www.theuspits.com/cpr.html#tips Frame Rate Tips -- Set the "draw ahead" (clipping) to 15 or 18, using Cntrl-H to decrease it and Cntrl-F to increase it. This has a dramatic affect on the frame rate, and you may not even notice the graphical difference. -- Make sure "poll interrupts" is unchecked in your Game Controllers control panel (this option is under the "Advanced" tab. -- Set the Sound Quality to "Normal 8-bit". -- Turn off the map ("m"), the leader board ("o"), the sky (Ctrl-N), and the steering wheel (in the graphic options). Make sure your mirrors are set to "cars only." Turn off hills and buildings (Ctrl-B). While you lose some eye candy, if you are serious about racing, you won't notice it anyway. -- If possible, get a 3Dfx card or a fast D3D card (such as the Diamond Viper 330). Helpful Tips -- If you are working on your setup and are following the familiar routine of test driving, returning to the garage, making changes, then test driving again, make sure that you are using the "test drive" button in the in the upper right corner of the Garage menu. Using "test drive" (instead of going to the Race menu and selecting a practice session) will keep the current track in memory, so that the track only has to be loaded once. It will save you a lot of time if you had been going to the Race menu and reloading your track each time. -- If you are looking for maximum speed (and who isn't?) make sure that the "race car performance" realism option is turned off . If this option is left on, your engine's performance will reflect its real-life counterpart, which almost always means performance will be something less than optimal. By turning race car performance off, all cars perform optimally, allowing you to choose the car/driver you like. -- When racing at the Zone, you may not be able to keep up with other racers if the host has the "race car performance" realism option turned on and you are using a car which has an engine with a lower performance rating. I feel that race car performance should be turned off when racing on the Zone to give everybody an equal chance. However, to be on the safe side, a wise choice when Zone racing would be Alex Zanardi -- he was good at all tracks. -- Suffer from twitching handling? Here are three things that can help: (1) increase the non-linear steering setting in the Controls menu, (2) decrease the steering ratio in the Garage (under suspension - axle), and (3) reduce the front wing angle. Many people overlook that last one, and it makes a big difference. Ok so thats about it but.......... I just Dled the new Beta patch at the Apex site and guess what I get when using D3D accelleration now? 50 fps WOW But... there seems to be a flashing problem so I ran at software accelleration only mode and I am getting 25-30 fps. If you havent gotten this patch yet HURRY cause they are only giving out 500 then no patch as this is still Beta. I really think this will be a great sim remember this is patch #1 I think no other sim can match the feeling of speed and overall feel so far. I think its worth it and at least Terminal Reality is trying to give us what we want;-) I hope you get yours going just tinker a bit as its worth it. also be sure and have latest drivers. Aloha, Mike

F1RS tracks load much more quickly if you turn off the CD music which plays while the track is loading. Edit file F1RS\CPA\dll\Snd_cpa.ini and change the CD line to: CD_ON_OFF=OFF CPR has an option in the Sound menu to turn off CD music. This doesn't impact track loading but can greatly improve frame rate during game play. Also, both CPR and F1RS load tracks much more quickly if you do a full install. Eagle Woman Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison

>F1RS tracks load much more quickly if you turn off the CD music which >plays while the track is loading. Edit file F1RS\CPA\dll\Snd_cpa.ini >and change the CD line to: > CD_ON_OFF=OFF AAAhhh....thank you!! John Wehman

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>>F1RS tracks load much more quickly if you turn off the CD music which >>plays while the track is loading. Edit file F1RS\CPA\dll\Snd_cpa.ini >>and change the CD line to: >> CD_ON_OFF=OFF >AAAhhh....thank you!!

<grin> You're welcome! Another good tip I got off the Formula 1 Online Racing site: If you find the opponents' engine sounds to be overly loud, you can lower their volume by changing the value of SXD_DIST_FADE=75 in the same file. Change the default value of 75 to 15 or so. Much less distracting! Also this is more realistic; you rarely hear other cars in a real race car because your own engine sound is so loud. Alison