F1RS: Understeer problems

I bought F1RS yesterday, and it surely is a nice game. However, I'm having problems with understeering. I've tried following the other cars through the corners, to get the correct line/entrance/speed, but I can't keep the same speed as my competitors without driving of the track! I've tried to soften the front anti-roll bar and increasing downforce, but I can't seem to get the perfect setup. Any suggestions? What would be the most ideal suspension setup (values etc) for a track like Silverstone? H.M.Haga

: However, I'm having problems with understeering. I don't have this game, but this is true for all understeering: 1) Stiffen rear suspension/anti-roll 2) Set brake bias more towards rear 3) Trail-brake (ie carry the brake into the corner to transfer the weight onto the front tires and off of the rear tires to induce oversteer). -- -------------------------------------

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> I bought F1RS yesterday, and it surely is a nice game. > However, I'm having problems with understeering. I've tried following > the > other cars through the corners, to get the correct > line/entrance/speed, > but I can't keep the same speed as my competitors without driving of > the > track!

changed just about everything in the setup possible but the car still pushes really bad. I sent an E-MAIL to F1 Master at UbiSoft about this, I hope they fix this. F1RS, no matter how you set the car up, is like a papy sim if you could only use the default "easy" setup. For now, I have gone back to GP2 and ICR2, although they don't look as good, the sense of speed is just as good and you can get hooked up with that perfect neutral handling condition that does not exist in F1RS.

>However, I'm having problems with understeering. I've tried following the >other cars through the corners, to get the correct line/entrance/speed, >but I can't keep the same speed as my competitors without driving of the >track! It may sound odd, but try reducing the amount of steering lock... Also, make sure that you are not entering the corner too fast (obvious, but very easily done <g>) Cheers, Richard

What circuits are you guys currently trying? I have set-ups for Hockenheim & Monaco that I'm happy with (I'm currently ironing out the one for Silverstone). I'll happily e-mail them to you or post them here if others are interested. Regards DM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply please remove < .nospam > from my e-mail address -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Error, no keyboard - press F1 to continue." - PC Bios Message

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> I bought F1RS yesterday, and it surely is a nice game. > > However, I'm having problems with understeering. I've tried following > the > other cars through the corners, to get the correct > line/entrance/speed, > but I can't keep the same speed as my competitors without driving of > the > track!

changed just about everything in the setup possible but the car still pushes really bad. I sent an E-MAIL to F1 Master at UbiSoft about this, I hope they fix this. F1RS, no matter how you set the car up, is like a papy sim if you could only use the default "easy" setup. For now, I have gone back to GP2 and ICR2, although they don't look as good, the sense of speed is just as good and you can get hooked up with that perfect neutral handling condition that does not exist in F1RS.

On Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:33:28 +0000, Richard Beckett

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> It's difficult to explain, but imagine you're driving a road >car in >the wet, and you come to a tight turn. You turn in and the car goes >round. >Now...do it again, but this time suddenly apply full lock, this time the >car >will slide straight on - until you REDUCE the lock. It feels like >understeer, >but it's caused by having too much lock.

What you are talking about IS definitely understeer !! Hermann

Yes that is what I was saying. But *** that... What I would like to know is how in the hell a private email I sent to Richard Beckett ended up in this Newsgroup? Does someone seriously have their head up their ass or what? -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >> > Subject: Re: F1RS: Understeer problems >> > Oh I get it. Even though the tires are turned to the max lock they still >> > have too little traction to stick. So it is like sliding on ice and not >> > turning. >> No...what I meant was that too much lock was applied in the first place >> and >> because of that the front tyres started to slide, and adding more lock >> makes >> it worse. It's difficult to explain, but imagine you're driving a road >> car in >> the wet, and you come to a tight turn. You turn in and the car goes >> round. >> Now...do it again, but this time suddenly apply full lock, this time the >> car >> will slide straight on - until you REDUCE the lock. It feels like >> understeer, >> but it's caused by having too much lock. >> > Have you tried any rain races? Even with wet tires, it is tough. You can >> > break traction and spin the rears down the straight pretty easy. It was >> > quite >> > interesting... I did Melbourne in 2:09 in the rain. It isn't that great of >> > a time >> > but it was fun :-) >> I started out by learning the game in the wet...it makes the dry much >> easier >> 8-)) >> -- >> Cheers, >> Richard. >> Richard UNDERSCORE Beckett AT ecid DOT cig DOT mot DOT com > Technically speaking, what your trying to say is that the >co-efficient of static friction (ie tyres not skidding) is greater than >the co-efficient of kinetic friction (ie tyres skidding). In other words >the tryes grip better when "tracking" than when skidding. > I am in two minds about the understeer at the moment. It's a case >of iether Ubi being the first company to do it "true to life" or a >matter of something being wrong. It sure is different to all other sims. >1 or 2 mph can seem to make a hell of a lot of difference to the turning >performance of the car. > Unfortunately my Viper 330 is apparently not working correctly and >the game is so choppy when cornering that it's hard to give any type of >accurate analysis at this point :((((

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> > Subject: Re: F1RS: Understeer problems > > Oh I get it. Even though the tires are turned to the max lock they still > > have too little traction to stick. So it is like sliding on ice and not > > turning. > No...what I meant was that too much lock was applied in the first place > and > because of that the front tyres started to slide, and adding more lock > makes > it worse. It's difficult to explain, but imagine you're driving a road > car in > the wet, and you come to a tight turn. You turn in and the car goes > round. > Now...do it again, but this time suddenly apply full lock, this time the > car > will slide straight on - until you REDUCE the lock. It feels like > understeer, > but it's caused by having too much lock. > > Have you tried any rain races? Even with wet tires, it is tough. You can > > break traction and spin the rears down the straight pretty easy. It was > > quite > > interesting... I did Melbourne in 2:09 in the rain. It isn't that great of > > a time > > but it was fun :-) > I started out by learning the game in the wet...it makes the dry much > easier > 8-)) > -- > Cheers, > Richard. > Richard UNDERSCORE Beckett AT ecid DOT cig DOT mot DOT com

Technically speaking, what your trying to say is that the co-efficient of static friction (ie tyres not skidding) is greater than the co-efficient of kinetic friction (ie tyres skidding). In other words the tryes grip better when "tracking" than when skidding. I am in two minds about the understeer at the moment. It's a case of iether Ubi being the first company to do it "true to life" or a matter of something being wrong. It sure is different to all other sims. 1 or 2 mph can seem to make a hell of a lot of difference to the turning performance of the car. Unfortunately my Viper 330 is apparently not working correctly and the game is so choppy when cornering that it's hard to give any type of accurate analysis at this point :((((

says... I know that driving a F1 car with ~700bhp isn't supposed to be easy, but if Ubisoft have made the game so realistic that only Villeneuve himself can complete a race, we do have a problem. I bought this game to have fun - not to become an F1 driver! I never had such great problems with understeering in F1GP, and the developers of TOCA BTCC probably don't even know the meaning of the word. Well, guess I'll have to give Schumacher his seat back and return to the stands. I was at the Hockenheim GP last year, and it was a great experience (especially driving 270kmh at the Autobahn :-)) H.M.Haga

Great advice...and some general advice. When setting up the car dont change more than one thing at a time while your learning the effects. That way you get an good feel for what is happening. I DO NOT have an understeering problem. Probably because I dont overdrive the car....but then again I realize Im not that quick yet but am getting there. This sim is BAD ASS....EAU ROUGE is absolutely incredible and now I know what Senna meant when he talked about it...and Spa. And I havent even tried other tracks besides Monza and Spa....my oh my...this sim is incredible Im sooooo happy I spent the extra money to buy it from Ubisoft via Airborne. PAPA DOC

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>: However, I'm having problems with understeering. >I don't have this game, but this is true for all understeering: >1) Stiffen rear suspension/anti-roll >2) Set brake bias more towards rear >3) Trail-brake (ie carry the brake into the corner to transfer the weight > onto the front tires and off of the rear tires to induce oversteer). >-- >-------------------------------------

I had similar problems and found that it was due to the fact that my wheel was set up as a joystick under Win95. If you make sure it is set up as a steering devices, then it works fine. Hope this helps. Steve.

Nurburbring (dry race) Seems some are having trouble with this sims, so i'll give one of my setup, for 25% race distance (or 3 pitstop) Fuel amount : 39 litres Tire Compound : C Max lock : 13 degrees Front wing : 15 degrees Rear wing : 9 degrees Brake ratio : 52% front, 48% rear Gear ratio : 19-25-31-36-40-43 Dampers (non-symetrical): LF: 71% rebound RF: 72% rebound LF: 27% bump RF: 27% bump LR: 82% rebound RR: 76% rebound LR: 36% bump RR: 40% bump Ride height: 35mm front , 62mm rear Cambers: LF : -4 deg. RF : -4 deg. LR : -5 deg. RR : -5 deg. Packers: LF : 56% (of 40mm) RF : 56% LR : 64% (of 40mm) RR : 64% Springs: LF : 59% RF : 59% LR : 68% RR : 68% Anti-Roll Bar: 36% in front 60% in rear Max. RPM: 16800 distance) I'm using a TSW with gear shift lever, and modified pedals travel linkage Hope it will be of help, Eric (SPY's GP2 WEBSITE) vcard.vcf < 1K Download

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>If you apply too much lock, then the car "feels" like it's >understeering, but it isn't. >Try this... >Reduce the steering lock to say 5 degrees. Then gradually increase it >until you can drive around the tightest corner happily. This should sort >out the problem.

Thanks for that! The car was incredibly unresponsive in turns with a lock of 15 or so with my TSW, but after dropping the lock down to 6, the thing now handles like a dream :-) BTW do you (or anyone else?) have problems with setups not transferring over correctly from practice to race? I'm sure I press the button on the setup screens, but half the time I enter race day with a car handling like a bus :-( Only last night, I had most of the setup across bar the steering lock, which was back at 20. Anyone aware of any buglets in this department? Ken -- #include <disclaim>

Don't forget that that adjusting the front and/or rear roll bars also has a significant effect on fine-tuning the understeer/oversteer. I don't think that this factor has been mentioned in this thread. -- Bruce. (At home)

>Seems some are having trouble with this sims, so i'll give one of my >setup, for 25% race distance (or 3 pitstop) [setups from a pro snipped...] Thank you, thank you. I am so bad at setting up my own car, I appreciate the "race" setups, as opposed to all the other's I've seen that are hot-lap only. If you have any more, please let me (us) know...I'd love to at least have a decent starting point. Thanks again, John Wehman

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> >Seems some are having trouble with this sims, so i'll give one of my > >setup, for 25% race distance (or 3 pitstop) > [setups from a pro snipped...] > Thank you, thank you. I am so bad at setting up my own car, I appreciate the > "race" setups, as opposed to all the other's I've seen that are hot-lap only. > If you have any more, please let me (us) know...I'd love to at least have a > decent starting point. > Thanks again, > John Wehman

John, tell me how good or bad it is, it's an "evolution" of what i was doing in GP2, i would have loved to give a single lap replay for this one, but you know the reality. BTW i'm running at expert level, with no help --> best way to learn faster how to setup the car. Few hints to help you make it comfortable for your driving style: (for this particular setup) At the exit of a corner, if it oversteer (or loose traction too fast), try RAISING REAR BUMP dampers setting. (that's my first choice) You can also try to LOWER SPRING rate in REAR (you'll have to change ride height and/or packers setting as well) 2nd choice here, but be aware you will change aerodynamic balance of the car, thus inducing probably other problem somewhere else. At a corner entrance, if it understeer, you're going too fast... If you really want to change something, try LOWERING FRONT REBOUND dampers and/or LOWERING FRONT BUMP dampers. The springs settings and Anti-Roll Bar, are actually very low, you may try increasing FRONT WINGS by one degrees, if you go too far in this aspect, then you'll go beyond in what the real F1 are doing. If it was any other setups , i would try first LOWERING FRONT RIDE HEIGHT. These were my tips of the day (or week), last comments, to know more about dampers adjustments, try this page from my website: [link lost in import: /~ericcote/dampers.html] Have fun, Eric Cote (SPY's GP2 WEBSITE --> will be R.I.P. in a few months) vcard.vcf < 1K Download

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>John, tell me how good or bad it is, it's an "evolution" of what i was doing in >GP2, >i would have loved to give a single lap replay for this one, but you know the >reality. >BTW i'm running at expert level, with no help --> best way to learn faster how > to >setup >the car.

I'm also running no help/expert level. I had never run on Nurb. before (I don't think it was in GP2), so I setup the car with your setup before even taking the car out the first time. I don't know if it's your seup, the course itself, or what, but I felt like I had total control of the car the whole time. Especially in the first left/right hander after the start line, I was really able to fly through there. Before long I was hitting 1:23's (I know, a far cry from 1:18, but I'm learning :-) One thing that seemed unsettled was the uphill just before the big TV monitor (sorry I don't know the names of these turns), it often seem to get very squirrelly in there, bummping around and generally loosing traction. Most likely something I just need to work on as far as approach speeds, etc. Anyway, thanks again! John Wehman

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>>Seems some are having trouble with this sims, so i'll give one of my >>setup, for 25% race distance (or 3 pitstop) >[setups from a pro snipped...] >Thank you, thank you. I am so bad at setting up my own car, I appreciate the >"race" setups, as opposed to all the other's I've seen that are hot-lap only. >If you have any more, please let me (us) know...I'd love to at least have a >decent starting point.

I missed the original message to this thread. Could you tell me where the setup is please? Setting up cars just isn't my thing I'm afraid. Tony

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> >>Seems some are having trouble with this sims, so i'll give one of my > >>setup, for 25% race distance (or 3 pitstop) > >[setups from a pro snipped...] > >Thank you, thank you. I am so bad at setting up my own car, I appreciate the > >"race" setups, as opposed to all the other's I've seen that are hot-lap only. > >If you have any more, please let me (us) know...I'd love to at least have a > >decent starting point. > I missed the original message to this thread. Could you tell me where > the setup is please? Setting up cars just isn't my thing I'm afraid. > Tony

(Ok i'll copy and paste:) Fuel amount : 39 litres Tire Compound : C Max lock : 13 degrees Front wing : 15 degrees Rear wing : 9 degrees Brake ratio : 52% front, 48% rear Gear ratio : 19-25-31-36-40-43 Dampers (non-symetrical): LF: 71% rebound RF: 72% rebound LF: 27% bump RF: 27% bump LR: 82% rebound RR: 76% rebound LR: 36% bump RR: 40% bump Ride height: 35mm front , 62mm rear Cambers: LF : -4 deg. RF : -4 deg. LR : -5 deg. RR : -5 deg. Packers: LF : 56% (of 40mm) RF : 56% LR : 64% (of 40mm) RR : 64% Springs: LF : 59% RF : 59% LR : 68% RR : 68% Anti-Roll Bar: 36% in front 60% in rear Max. RPM: 16800 distance) I'm using a TSW with gear shift lever, and modified pedals travel linkage Hope it will be of help, Eric (SPY's GP2 WEBSITE) (end of paste) vcard.vcf < 1K Download

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> >John, tell me how good or bad it is, it's an "evolution" of what i was doing in > >GP2, > >i would have loved to give a single lap replay for this one, but you know the > >reality. > >BTW i'm running at expert level, with no help --> best way to learn faster how > > to > >setup > >the car. > I'm also running no help/expert level. I had never run on Nurb. before (I > don't think it was in GP2), so I setup the car with your setup before even > taking the car out the first time. I don't know if it's your seup, the course > itself, or what, but I felt like I had total control of the car the whole > time. Especially in the first left/right hander after the start line, I was > really able to fly through there. Before long I was hitting 1:23's (I know, a > far cry from 1:18, but I'm learning :-) > One thing that seemed unsettled was the uphill just before the big TV monitor > (sorry I don't know the names of these turns), it often seem to get very > squirrelly in there, bummping around and generally loosing traction. Most > likely something I just need to work on as far as approach speeds, etc.

Just a question of getting it right going thru that corner, it's very tricky, there's alsoanother "trap" before arriving at the long hairpin, you turn left, re-accelerate, then all of a suddon it drops, then you make a sharp right hander. Anyhow the trick is practicing alot, i've put all my ressource to make this car setup as good as i can. I know with experience though, that i will eventually race again on that track, and find something better as i get more experienced with other tracks. Also last trick for all driving this sim, the "key" tracks to learn really quickly to setup a car are: Suzuka: It has probably all the type of corners found in F1 racing (The rythme is acquired by the driver so good track time is achieved by perfecting all the corners lines) Silverstone: I love this track, there's 3 distinct "section", that needs a good setup. (Copse up to Beckets exit, Stowe up to The Bridge, and the last slower section) Hungaroring: It's slow course, but the rythme is changing all the time, personally i love this one. Spa Francorchamp: Most beautiful track of all, same as Suzuka, every type of corners are found, Eau rouge is breathtaking, and the last chicane (exit of Bus Stop) is really fun when you got well over the cerbstone in 3 rd gear. Take care, Eric vcard.vcf < 1K Download

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>(Ok i'll copy and paste:) >Fuel amount : 39 litres >Tire Compound : C >Max lock : 13 degrees >Front wing : 15 degrees Rear wing : 9 degrees >Brake ratio : 52% front, 48% rear >Gear ratio : 19-25-31-36-40-43 >I'm using a TSW with gear shift lever, and modified pedals travel linkage >Hope it will be of help, Eric

Thanks Eric, I'm sure it will. Tony