Just wait 'til the Indy 500 gets hacked...

http://tech.msn.com/629212.armx Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

EldredP wrote:

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> > http://tech.msn.com/629212.armx > > Eldred > -- > http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Screamers League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH:na > N2k3 rank:in progress > Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin > Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro > US East

Talk about an unholy alliance. Two prime forces of evil collaborating...civilization doesn't stand a chance ;-)

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in news:[email hidden]: > http://tech.msn.com/629212.armx > > Eldred > -- I'm sorry Eldred, what is the article about? I started to read it but had to stop after this line..... "indy racing league (irl) is the premier open-wheel racing division ..."

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:59:10 -0500, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote: > I'm sorry Eldred, what is the article about? I started to read it but >had to stop after this line..... > >"indy racing league (irl) is the premier open-wheel racing division ..." I dunno, I think I've seen BIGWHEEL(tm) races in the street that had more people watching. Jason

Don't knock the ole Big Wheel races ;) I lived on a pretty steep hill growing up and the BW races were a highlight of my childhood. IRL on the other hand... Mitch "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:59:10 -0500, Dave Henrie > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > I dunno, I think I've seen BIGWHEEL(tm) races in the street that had > more people watching. > > Jason

In article <lxkec.21581$[email hidden]>, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> writes: >Don't knock the ole Big Wheel races ;) I lived on a pretty steep hill >growing up and the BW races were a highlight of my childhood. IRL on the >other hand... I must be the only one here who still enjoys watching open wheel racing. IRL or CART, doesn't matter - I'l watch it. I would think that any racing FAN would watch it, TG be damned.... Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in news:[email hidden]: > TG be damned.... > > Eldred > I couldn't have said it better. :) dh

If no other races are televised Ill watch the IRL. Its actually pretty good racing on some tracks. Does that make it any easier to swallow what TG did, no way... He's a spoiled brat that was born with a silver spoon and wants it his way. He's about clueless IMO. Mitch "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <lxkec.21581$[email hidden]>, "Mitch_A" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > I must be the only one here who still enjoys watching open wheel racing.IRL

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> or CART, doesn't matter - I'l watch it. > I would think that any racing FAN would watch it, TG be damned.... > > Eldred > -- > http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Screamers League > IICC League > GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 > Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 > Hist. +82.34 MoH:na > N2k3 rank:in progress > Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin > Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro > US East

>If no other races are televised Ill watch the IRL. Its actually pretty good >racing on some tracks. Does that make it any easier to swallow what TG did, >no way... He's a spoiled brat that was born with a silver spoon and wants >it his way. He's about clueless IMO. Agreed - he's a brat that took his ball and went home. But since I love open wheel racing, I don't have a choice, really. It's not as if I(or anyone else incensed by the split) is going to change his mind... Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

And that statement is wrong how? :) (At least in the US). "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > http://tech.msn.com/629212.armx > > > > Eldred > > -- > > I'm sorry Eldred, what is the article about? I started to read it but > had to stop after this line..... > > "indy racing league (irl) is the premier open-wheel racing division ..." > >

"TDRacin�" <TDRacinnospamflashmail.com> wrote in news:lNCdnXLSe8lOhBrdRVn- [email hidden]: > And that statement is wrong how? :) > > (At least in the US). > World of Outlaws, USAC Sprints, Midgets, just to name a few

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>> And that statement is wrong how? :) >> >> (At least in the US). >> > > World of Outlaws, USAC Sprints, Midgets, just to name a few >

But those are not the *premiere* open-wheeled motorsports... Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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>> World of Outlaws, USAC Sprints, Midgets, just to name a few >> > > But those are not the *premiere* open-wheeled motorsports... > > Eldred > --

and neither is the irl. Neither CCWS or the IRL series can claim itself to be a premier series when the irl gets a .9 or 1.2 share(depending on who you ask) at Phoenix(on Network TV) and 15 to 25,000 in the stands vs the Longbeach opener with a .2 share yes POINT TWO(cable only) but 75, 000 on raceday with a total weekend ticket package of probably 150,000. I wonder what the 50+ dates for World of Outlaws pulls in. I'd be willing to bet the Biggest IRL event...indy doesn't even compare to the weakest Nascar race in TV ratings. So to claim a premier monicker intones having sucess of some sort. CCWS and IRL are definately NOT a sucess. Just for kicks...do a quick search..try and find attendance and TV ratings for the irl...it's like harder than pulling teeth. dave henrie

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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>> World of Outlaws, USAC Sprints, Midgets, just to name a few >> > > But those are not the *premiere* open-wheeled motorsports... > > Eldred > --

They are more ** than the other league the statement was talking about. :)

> I'd be willing to bet the Biggest IRL event...indy doesn't even compare >to the weakest Nascar race in TV ratings. So to claim a premier monicker >intones having sucess of some sort. CCWS and IRL are definately NOT a >sucess. Your original comparison was 'open-wheel' racing. You can't now compare it to Nascar... I agree Nascar is more popular, but that wasn't the point IRL is one of the premiere *open-wheel* series. the fact that it's so much lower in rating than Nascar isn't at issue here. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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>> I'd be willing to bet the Biggest IRL event...indy doesn't even >> compare >>to the weakest Nascar race in TV ratings. So to claim a premier >>monicker intones having sucess of some sort. CCWS and IRL are >>definately NOT a sucess. > > Your original comparison was 'open-wheel' racing. You can't now > compare it to Nascar... I agree Nascar is more popular, but that > wasn't the point IRL is one of the premiere *open-wheel* series. the > fact that it's so much lower in rating than Nascar isn't at issue > here. > > Eldred

I'm just using Nascar as a point of reference. Open wheel racing in the USA is sooooo pitiful that NEITHER CCWS nor IRL have any business claiming to be a premier ANYTHING. So going back to my foggy first post, I'd say that World of Outlaws or other USA openwheel series have just as much claim to the word premier. IRL sucks and so does CCWS, at least on the Telly. Attendance-wise, Champcar was 2nd behind nascar in per event attendance and the irl was just ahead of WoO in 6th and 7th place. Take out Indy and WoO kills irl when comparing butts in the seats.

That statement is still not wrong. Whether you agree with it or not, that statement is fact. You want to hear a funny stat, a Dirt Late Model race televised on a Thursday night @ 10 pm EDT on Speed (that was taped 3 weeks previous) received a higher NR than the CART race that was televised LIVE on a Sunday afternoon on CB, maybe? Hell, the 30 minute BMW paid programming slot televised before it received a higher NR! As low as the IRL ratings may be, they are still the *premier* open wheel racing series in the US. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "TDRacin�" <TDRacinnospamflashmail.com> wrote in news:lNCdnXLSe8lOhBrdRVn- > [email hidden]: > > > And that statement is wrong how? :) > > > > (At least in the US). > > > > World of Outlaws, USAC Sprints, Midgets, just to name a few

"TDRacin�" <TDRacinnospamflashmail.com> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > That statement is still not wrong. Whether you agree with it or not, > that statement is fact. No "I" disagree with it. THerefore it is WRONG. :) Don't try logic on me. Facts are only as solid as the lawyer defending them. dave henrie I'll nominate Paul Tracey's Las Vegas Kart league before the irl.

hehe "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "TDRacin�" <TDRacinnospamflashmail.com> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > That statement is still not wrong. Whether you agree with it or not, > > that statement is fact. > > No "I" disagree with it. THerefore it is WRONG. :) > Don't try logic on me. Facts are only as solid as the lawyer defending > them. > > dave henrie > I'll nominate Paul Tracey's Las Vegas Kart league before the irl. >

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 14:08:41 -0400, "TDRacin�" <TDRacinnospamflashmail.com> wrote: >You want to hear a funny stat, a Dirt Late Model race televised on a >Thursday night @ 10 pm EDT on Speed (that was taped 3 weeks previous) >received a higher NR than the CART race that was televised LIVE on a Sunday >afternoon on CB, maybe? Hell, the 30 minute BMW paid programming slot >televised before it received a higher NR! As low as the IRL ratings may be, >they are still the *premier* open wheel racing series in the US. Long Beach drew only 70,000 people on raceday (which is pretty damn low) and still outdrew every race on the IRL schedule by a factor of 4 except Indy. There's something to be said for having people actually show up to watch the races, instead of going by tv ratings which are heavily skewed by the station carrying it. If you put CART and IRL on the same station (say ESPN or ABC) I don't think there's any question which is going to get the heavier draw. You wouldn't happen to have stats on how well the Brand's Indy race on ABC drew compared to the IRL races on ABC would you? Jason

[email hidden]

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> > If you put CART and IRL on the same station (say ESPN or ABC) I don't > think there's any question which is going to get the heavier draw. > > You wouldn't happen to have stats on how well the Brand's Indy race on > ABC drew compared to the IRL races on ABC would you? > > Jason >

I would 'guess' they would both be fairly low(although much better than Spike's first airing). I think CBS carried 3 or 4 races last year. Probably SOMEBODY with inititative could dig up the numbers. :)

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> [email hidden] >> >> If you put CART and IRL on the same station (say ESPN or ABC) I don't >> think there's any question which is going to get the heavier draw. >> >> You wouldn't happen to have stats on how well the Brand's Indy race >> on ABC drew compared to the IRL races on ABC would you? >> >> Jason >> > > I would 'guess' they would both be fairly low(although much better > than > Spike's first airing). I think CBS carried 3 or 4 races last year. > Probably SOMEBODY with inititative could dig up the numbers. :)

Ok I did SOME searching and found this from last year about Chicago on live CBS. ----- <from racinglines.com> The nationwide overnight rating for the Chicago event was a 1.2, a rating that is up 33 percent from the numbers of the last CART event, two weeks prior in Portland. The market-by-market breakdown of the overnight numbers showed the CART FedEx Championship Series to have drawn strong viewership from many key markets as 23 regions showed ratings of 1.5 or over and nine markets posted numbers of 2.0 or better. ----------- So that would have put it neck and neck with the Phoenix IRL event from 2004. But as the article shows, the previous CART event at Portland received lower ratings. Chicago was hardly one of CART premier events, but it shows that the same basic audience (oval/openwheel) was watching. It shows CART, at least last year that is, could compete evenly with the IRL on National Television. It also shows the mainly Cable only broadcasts that have been the staple of CART for several years are a limiting factor. If CBS or NBC broadcast all the CART events, and promoted them like NBC did several years ago when they had the ALMS races. THen I would suspect the numbers would grow. I guess the final analysis of whether the Long Beach event on SpikeTV was a sucess would be to compare the anemic ratings to other Sunday fare on SpikeTV. If the Champcar World Series is noticably lower than Spike's reruns etc then you would call it a failure. If CCWS maintained Spike's normal ratings, then it would be a small sucess. However, getting back to the original theory. I still say that both the irl and ccws cannot rightfully claim being the PREMIER open wheel series in the USA when they both do rather poorly on TV. The LongBeach attendance numbers can be somewhat understood by several factors. Saturday was raining heavily. The fact that CCWS would even show up was not certain until the very week of the event. Surely this uncertainty limited advance ticket sales. So lets all watch OWRS try and save Champcars, lets agree TG is slime, and lets agree that neither series would exist except for deep pockets by their owners. And lets agree this saddens me. I grew up learning about the 'American Way,' a method of sucess that said ANYONE could suceed. Just build a better product and you will make it. Unfortunately TG didn't set out to build a better product. He had to find a way to sell an inferior(at the time of the irl's inception) and thus used financial blackmail{by limiting access to the Indy 500} to create his series. Just think what TV numbers a CCWS vs IRL @ Indy would produce. Equalize the cars(I know almost impossible) and let the Champ teams bring their stuff. Let the IRS teams use their hardware. Properly promoted, you'd at least triple the ratings. Anyone who saw the Nascar fans throwing garbage at Jeff Gordon at today's Talladega event can see the fans love rivalries. Heck you could even cordon off each grandstand section and split it 50/50 between irl fan tickets and ccws fans. Then even the crowds attending the event would be part of the rivalry. Dave Henrie Motorsports Consultant (I wonder how much cash I can siphon from TG and the 3 stooges)

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > Ok I did SOME searching and found this from last year about Chicago on > live CBS. Heck I spent quite a-lot of time trying to find comparison numbers for the Irl and CCWS without much luck. Suddenly I've found myself on some racing email list and look what dropped into my inbox. From Auto Racing Daily: Champ Car tests at Porland; TV ratings small for Long Beach Long Beach drew a .23 Nielsen rating Sunday afternoon, with something less than 200,000 households tuning in. On the one hand, Champ Car doubled the IRL, which drew a .1 for its Motegi race in its established spot on ESPN2. On the other, both series' ratings fell somewhere below miniscule. The NASCAR Nextel Cup race at Martinsville topped all weekend sports broadcasts with a 5.4 share on Fox. The NBA playoff game between Dallas and Sacramento drew 3.0 on ABC, and the Purina Dog Chow Dog Challenge drew a .3 on PAX. So by this measure we can CLEARLY see that CCWS is the real Premier Open Wheel Series. Yet BOTH the IRL and CCWS are DOGS. dave henrie

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> >Champ Car tests at Porland; TV ratings small for Long Beach >Long Beach drew a .23 Nielsen rating Sunday afternoon, with something less >than 200,000 households tuning in. On the one hand, Champ Car doubled the >IRL, which drew a .1 for its Motegi race in its established spot on ESPN2. >On the other, both series' ratings fell somewhere below miniscule. The >NASCAR Nextel Cup race at Martinsville topped all weekend sports broadcasts >with a 5.4 share on Fox. The NBA playoff game between Dallas and Sacramento >drew 3.0 on ABC, and the Purina Dog Chow Dog Challenge drew a .3 on PAX.

NASCAR does a better job of marketing, I'm afraid. Even people who are non fans can probably name 5-7 NASCAR drivers. With the current open wheel situation, there are two problems I see. One, there aren't really any 'superstars' that non-fans can relate to. No AJ, Mario, Rick Mears, etc. Two, the drivers no longer stay with one team for very long like they used to. With few long-term contracts, it's hard to build name recognition. That translates to fewer fans, viewers, and consumers of the sponsors' products. > > So by this measure we can CLEARLY see that CCWS is the real Premier Open >Wheel Series. Yet BOTH the IRL and CCWS are DOGS. > Pun intended? :-) Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East