Papyrus/GPL : kickin' ass and takin' names

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but this will be the first (quote-unquote) "SIM" >to use the arms-and-hands upon the steering wheel view. I have seen what TOCA >has done, and its really pretty enjoyable (you gotta love them Sparco brand >driving gloves in TOCA). I hope that they can (quote-unquote) turn this arms and hands feature off. I can already see my own arms and hands steering the car, why would you want to see two sets of arms and hands. The patches to F1RS were minor tweaks. In fact, I noticed no difference after installing any of the patches. -- Kevin (Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

<Sniff sniff> smells like speculation..... You do of course have proof of this and aren't simply expecting everyone to take your workd for it? Cheers! John

I just finished watching the avi and yes it does look great, but is it just me or are the engine sounds in the avi the exact same sounds used for N2? Now, I am no expert, but I know a 60's GP car sounds a lot different than a 90's Cup car. Someone please tell me that those were just placeholder sounds or that it is late and I was just hearing things. ;) Kyle > April 6th comes the Demo of Grand Prix Legends, with the game due out in > July. According to the AVI's so far, and the most helpfull Mike Lescault of > Papyrus, this game figures to kick MUCH ass.

snip > Correct me if I'm wrong, but this will be the first (quote-unquote) "SIM" > to use the arms-and-hands upon the steering wheel view. I have seen what TOCA > has done, and its really pretty enjoyable (you gotta love them Sparco brand > driving gloves in TOCA). I still hope, it's optional... I love Papyrus sims, but you shouldn't go overboard with praise. There are problems in their sims (e.g. AI), like in any software product. But in Papyrus sims they are mostly minor problems and I think that's the same with F1RS. BTW, most of the patches included features (FF, 3D sound), so the number of patches is not a bad thing... What I really hope is that GPL will get a good menu system (I hate to use the F1RS menus, and I hate the snail cursor in N2). Papy, give us a simple but fast menu that can be navigated by keyboard!!! l8er ronny -- Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure, kiddo?" |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

>Im almost positive that we "SIM'ers" will find something wrong with GPL and >will request a patch within a week f the release. Plus, we are talking about >Papyrus. >Dont get me wrong, I love what Papyrus has done for us, but they have never >produced the "best" product they could have (ie; no 3dfx for N2, AI sucked >in N2 and ICR2, NROS a year late, etc). Correct me if i am wrong, but N2 was a Xmas 96 release? Considering it predates 3Dfx public support by such a wide margin, getting the 3Dfx patch now is quite postive of Papyrus. That they spent the time on such an old product is comendable.

I think you'll find that the sounds are *not* indicative of what the audio will be like in the actual release.

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> I just finished watching the avi and yes it does look great, but is it > just me or are the engine sounds in the avi the exact same sounds used > for N2? Now, I am no expert, but I know a 60's GP car sounds a lot > different than a 90's Cup car. Someone please tell me that those were > just placeholder sounds or that it is late and I was just hearing > things. ;) > Kyle > > April 6th comes the Demo of Grand Prix Legends, with the game due out in > > July. According to the AVI's so far, and the most helpfull Mike Lescault of > > Papyrus, this game figures to kick MUCH ass.

-- Bruce. (At home)

> Im almost positive that we "SIM'ers" will find something wrong with GPL and > will request a patch within a week f the release. Well, some of us may. Those who expect perfection, as they interpret it, in everything that they buy but who don't usually practice what they preach. Oh, come off it and get real! No production company has ever produced "the best" product!There's an old adage that says something about never being able to satisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time. Only because those who are doing the begging are impossible to please. Have another look at that avi and then tell me that, without the arms and steering wheel, you would NOT complain about the gaping void between your viewpoint and the instrument panel. Bruce. (At home)

They have'nt spent as much time on the 3Dfx patch as you might think. 3Dfx themselves did the port. Marc. -------- To replay via e-mail, remove "spam." from the beginning of my e-mail address (Tyring to avoid junk mail)

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> <snip> > And yes there have been other sims that have had the arms and hands before, > (cant remember what titles), and I know that I am looking forward to see its > return. But I do see that issue being one of the "not so good" things about > GPL. I would rather have the couple extra frame rates by not having the > arms, and they could have better spent the time on something else, (we will > find out what that something else is in July)

The arms will be optional. Now how about that? Cool huh? Man, oh man I can't wait for this sim to hit the shelves. Cheers, Harald

Yep, just a placeholder... Check out my site below and http://gpl.gamestats.com for all the latest on GPL. Alan Head =========================================== Grand Prix Legends Homepages http://www.gp-legends.com ===========================================

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> I just finished watching the avi and yes it does look great, but is it > just me or are the engine sounds in the avi the exact same sounds used > for N2? Now, I am no expert, but I know a 60's GP car sounds a lot > different than a 90's Cup car. Someone please tell me that those were > just placeholder sounds or that it is late and I was just hearing > things. ;) > Kyle

Papy's Mike Lescault said that the sound is still just a placeholder. -Thorsten Rueter

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> > <snip> > > And yes there have been other sims that have had the arms and hands before, > > (cant remember what titles), and I know that I am looking forward to see its > > return. But I do see that issue being one of the "not so good" things about > > GPL. I would rather have the couple extra frame rates by not having the > > arms, and they could have better spent the time on something else, (we will > > find out what that something else is in July) > The arms will be optional. Now how about that? Cool huh? > Man, oh man I can't wait for this sim to hit the shelves.

Are you guessing or hoping? Or do you have a reliable source for that? l8er ronny -- Wie man die Zensuren in deutschen Computerspielen rckg?ngig macht <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

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>>They have'nt spent as much time on the 3Dfx patch as you might think. >>3Dfx themselves did the port. ><Sniff sniff> smells like speculation..... >You do of course have proof of this and aren't simply expecting >everyone to take your workd for it?

I'm not speculating. I was suprised to hear it myself. 3Dfx has admitted to it themselves. I don't quite remember who from 3Dfx stated this, but it was one of the guys who frequents their newsserver. Sorry I don't have an exact quote, but you can ask someone on news.3dfx.com if you like. Marc. -------- To replay via e-mail, remove "spam." from the beginning of my e-mail address (Tyring to avoid junk mail)

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>Path: >>They have'nt spent as much time on the 3Dfx patch as you might think. >>3Dfx themselves did the port. ><Sniff sniff> smells like speculation..... >You do of course have proof of this and aren't simply expecting >everyone to take your workd for it? >Cheers! >John

But in the same stroke i am aware of this, but the project would not have procedded without help and co-operation from Papyrus. 3Dfx's cards seem to have real drawbacks when it comes to racing games and***pit displays. There was a recent discussion about this on one of the 3Dfx groups, if you are interested. Anyway, my point is quite why anyone has an expectation for a Xmas 96 release to have a 3D patch, when the 3D card revolution did not really arrive till mid-late 97 is amazing. I Read today of someone complaining about MPS not doing a 3D patch for Gp2! A Mid 96 release! (Besides, GP2 is not avalaible for sale anymore, as the FOA license has expired) You'll find some more copies floating around in the shops, but thats it for life. There is support for a product, but adding completely new features for new technologies 6 months or so after a games release (thats probably 7-8 months after it has been hung up by the coders) is insane. Z.

Man, this game is very impressive. I know that when the Nascar 2 demo came out, the sound wasn't that incredible. In fact, I had to use the sound file from Nascar racing. The graphic looks great: you can finally see the scenery in the rearview mirrors. Have you noticed the smoke in the mirrors when the wheels lock? The wheel do lock under hard braking: in fact you can see the goodyear logo when the car is braking too hard! Papyrus will raise the bar for racing sims once again. Sure, we are probably going to need a patch or two, but who cares? The basic game will still be playable! Nascar 2 may have a bad AI, but that didn't altered your interest. The game is two years old and I'm still enjoying it. It's still on my hard drive. Can't say that many games last that long... Anyway, can't wait to see the cars flipping over and catching on fire! And the new AI is supposed to be very racey. Can wait! Guess I'll go camp in the States to buy the game! And I'm sure all the GPL related web sites will be very busy April 6. Philippe Sergerie

The GPL will be posted on http://gpl.gamestats.com as soon as the demo is released. The demo will be 13mb in size so it shouldn't be too large of a download. You will wet your pants when you drive this simulation!!! :-) John

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>Man, this game is very impressive. I know that when the Nascar 2 demo >came out, the sound wasn't that incredible. In fact, I had to use the >sound file from Nascar racing. The graphic looks great: you can finally >see the scenery in the rearview mirrors. Have you noticed the smoke in >the mirrors when the wheels lock? The wheel do lock under hard braking: >in fact you can see the goodyear logo when the car is braking too hard! >Papyrus will raise the bar for racing sims once again. Sure, we are >probably going to need a patch or two, but who cares? The basic game >will still be playable! Nascar 2 may have a bad AI, but that didn't >altered your interest. The game is two years old and I'm still enjoying >it. It's still on my hard drive. Can't say that many games last that >long... >Anyway, can't wait to see the cars flipping over and catching on fire! >And the new AI is supposed to be very racey. Can wait! Guess I'll go >camp in the States to buy the game! And I'm sure all the GPL related web >sites will be very busy April 6. >Philippe Sergerie

Does anyone know if the avi was taken in software rendering mode or hardware accelerated. If accelerated which video card was being used and also what the specs of the machine where. Thanks, Kyle

MANTooTH wrote Going far into my brain, I think it was on a PII 300 with a Rendition-based card. Only 2days left ! LETS START THE HYPE !!!!!!!!! Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking) --"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

In my life I've heard a lot of things - not all of them have been true. Doubtless the patch couldn't have been done without 3dFX, just as much as it couldn't have been done without Papyrus - to give all the plaudits to 3dFX is to miss the point. Actually I think the main praise should go to Papyrus for listening to their customers here and patching a game that pre-dated 3dFX for no commercial gain whatsoever. I wouldn't have done it were I in their position, but I was pleasantly surprised when they did. Cheers! John

> Does anyone know if the avi was taken in software rendering mode or > hardware accelerated. If accelerated which video card was being used and > also what the specs of the machine where. PII300 and V1000.

>I hope that they can (quote-unquote) turn this arms and hands feature off. >I can already see my own arms and hands steering the car, why would you want >to see two sets of arms and hands. a) It looks really cool in replays to see what the driver was doing. b) Because GPL's***pit is the first one to be correctly proportioned with respect to the driver's position, it would look a bit silly with a load of empty space in front of you until the dash started. Several people have complained about the arms and hands being visible, and none of them have ever tried the sim. Of all the people who HAVE tried the sim, none have found the arms and hands to be any sort of problem. Draw your own conclusions! :-) Still, it's good that Mike Lescault mentioned on the Apex that there would be an option to turn it off, since that keeps everyone happy. Cheers! John

They've also converted some other games like Descent II. Their version is much better than Parallax's also.

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> >I hope that they can (quote-unquote) turn this arms and hands feature off. > >I can already see my own arms and hands steering the car, why would you want > >to see two sets of arms and hands. > a) It looks really cool in replays to see what the driver was doing. > b) Because GPL's***pit is the first one to be correctly proportioned > with respect to the driver's position, it would look a bit silly with > a load of empty space in front of you until the dash started. > Several people have complained about the arms and hands being visible, > and none of them have ever tried the sim. Of all the people who HAVE > tried the sim, none have found the arms and hands to be any sort of > problem. Draw your own conclusions! :-) > Still, it's good that Mike Lescault mentioned on the Apex that there > would be an option to turn it off, since that keeps everyone happy. > Cheers! > John

Any sim I have tried with even the steering wheel shown I find that I tend to try to use the wheel on the screen to steer the car instead of the wheel my hands are on (if that makes any sense). Maybe it's just me but I find myself completely discombobulated with this type of thing. And as I and others have stated before, "hey, I've got my own arms and wheel". Still, it will be an added bonus for what I'm hoping to be a typically excellent Papy replay facility :)