Warning: This is may be a GPL troll

If any of you are haveing trouble with the sterreing input, you should try the thrustmaster game card, cost about$40 and can solve many problems associated with "jumpy" steering, or trouble calibrating. and now my opinoin: I don't understand why anybody would excpect this game to be easy. If you where given the chance to drive a real F1 car, and found it to be difficult would you be surprised? Give the real drivers some credit! And acknowledge that what they do, maybe we can not. Don't think what they do is easy becouse they make it look easy on TV or in a movie. They are driving in the edge of control, even though it looks as if the car is as stable as your family car! -- Kevin Anderson ICQ # 6769389 Oscar FB Div. 10

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> I mention a few things about how I find GPL hard to drive because of > what I > perceive to be an input problem and of what I perceive to be a less > than > honest attempt at simulating a 67 GP car, and I get blasted by quite > a few > prima donnas in this NG -- you all know who you are. > This NG is so full of Papyrus worshipers who think that GPL is the > greatest > thing since ICR2/N2. Everything that Papyrus delivers to you, you lap > it up > like starved pups. Anything that is not written by Papyrus gets > slagged > off. > I'll repeat again: there is a steering input problem in GPL as in > ICR2. It > makes driving a car impossible for some people. I'm not the only one > who > has brought up this issue. I just hope that Papyrus does not listen > to the > ***s in this NG only who pronounce that GPL is perfect. This > game will > fall out of the reach of many people who will not be able to master > the > unnecessarily difficult steering inputs. And yes, my slider is set > all the > way to the right -- at non-linear so don't remind me for the ump***th > time > to set my steering at non-linear. > I have made suggestions on how to make the steering more > user-friendly, but > I just get cheap shots thrown my way. I also get slagged for pointing > out > that the hotlappers are arcading it with continous slides, and > drifts. I > have yet to see a really smooth, proper driving technique that gives > times > as fast as the hotlappers. This makes the simulation aspect of the > game/demo somewhat suspect. > So, now that I have gotten this all off my chest, I will breath easier > knowing full well that the Papyrus loving prima donnas of this NG are > seeing > red just about now.

I have posted repeatedly to try to debate your criticism, yet you have never responded. I enjoy GP2, I enjoy TOCA, I enjoy GPL. I do not worship anybody. I see you as over-ignorant. You probably won't read this message, but what the heck: Welcome to my killfile. Matt -- Matthew Knutsen Cheek Racing Cars [link lost in import: /~kareknut/]

Just a quick question charlie boy, what exactly are you using to control GPL???

Even human beings have limits! I have driven most 'sims' on home computers and gpl is about the first where I have been daunted by the physics of the car. I dread to think what it would have been like to drive AND race one of these cars. I was very impressed with the demo on first impressions but I do think there seems to be a problem with the sense of speed being given by the sim..... If any of you are haveing trouble with the sterreing input, you should try the thrustmaster game card, cost about$40 and can solve many problems associated with "jumpy" steering, or trouble calibrating. and now my opinoin: I don't understand why anybody would excpect this game to be easy. If you where given the chance to drive a real F1 car, and found it to be difficult would you be surprised? Give the real drivers some credit! And acknowledge that what they do, maybe we can not. Don't think what they do is easy becouse they make it look easy on TV or in a movie. They are driving in the edge of control, even though it looks as if the car is as stable as your family car! -- Kevin Anderson ICQ # 6769389 Oscar FB Div. 10

Ah great its you again. >I mention a few things about how I find GPL hard to drive because of what I >perceive to be an input problem and of what I perceive to be a less than >honest attempt at simulating a 67 GP car, and I get blasted by quite a few >prima donnas in this NG -- you all know who you are. Yup you mention them over and over and over again. You bet I worship Papyrus everything they have delivered to me has been of such high quality how could I not. I am however only loyal until another company comes along with something better, CPR was a ***sim and got slagged , F1RS was a good attempted and was not. Its nothing to so with who makes them. Yes and you will probebly repeat it again and again and again, and I hope Papyrus doesnt listen. The only input problem is the person controlling the input. This is not an arcade game if it was I wouldnt be playing it. I dont want an arcade game I want a racing sim and I want it to be as realistically hard as driving racing cars really is, that way I can seperate myself from people like you who are not capable of doing it. Why would a true racing sim want user friendly steering. All the things that you seem to want are standard features of older race sims the ones like GP2 that anyone can get the hang of in a short period of time. I suggest you stick with GP2 and leave GPL to the people who are looking for the true racing experience. I Love it cause its so damn hard. As for the hotlappers arcading it, whatever that means. They get those laps because they are doing things that I am not yet capable of, out braking me, getting onto the power before me, keeping the revs up at all times, racing stuff that you have no idea about. Being smooth gets good laps in a race but to get a hot lap you have to be on the raggedy edge. I bet if one of the 106 drivers did a controlled 108 lap it would be the smoothest thing you have ever seen. What you mean after the 10th post you have finaly gotten it of your chest. Does that mean we no longer have to listen to you dribble? Mr Mak your not Dean by any chance back with a name change for a bit of retribution ?

<snip> % Why would a true racing sim want user friendly steering. All the things % that you seem to want are standard features of older race sims the ones like % GP2 that anyone can get the hang of in a short period of time. I suggest you % stick with GP2 and leave GPL to the people who are looking for the true % racing experience. I Love it cause its so damn hard. As for the hotlappers % arcading it, whatever that means. They get those laps because they are doing % things that I am not yet capable of, out braking me, getting onto the power % before me, keeping the revs up at all times, racing stuff that you have no % idea about. Being smooth gets good laps in a race but to get a hot lap you % have to be on the raggedy edge. I bet if one of the 106 drivers did a % controlled 108 lap it would be the smoothest thing you have ever seen. The following is about Jimmy Clark: "Through the summer he was able to visit Britain only once, for Silverstone and another memorable win. Pictures of the car that day -- acutely understeering here, in an opposite lock power slide there -- server to remind us of the early 49's wayward character, but Jimmy was always its master." Give me a simulation of real racing! Not a simulation of a simulation! Thanks Papy! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Did Ian Paisley open a charm school when I wasn't looking? Andrew McP

> and I hope Papyrus doesnt listen. The only input problem is the person controlling the -Foolish jabber omitted Papyrus better listen ! That is, if they want our money and that is what its all about. Bob

On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:51:28 -0400, "Charles Mak" >Yeah, you know what I think I'm done with my "dribble." I'm just going to >let the Papyrus loving cult have their day in this NG. I'll just wait and >see if GPL will do well or not in the stores and with game reviewers. Do you really think game reviewers know anything about a decent sim? Now what was their "game of the year" again....? <chortle> I have little faith in what reviewers say, and hearing that people like PC Gamer get all huffy that we slagged off their reviews is quite amusing really. Maybe do it right next time instead of whinging about being slagged off for being hopelessly uninforned. Cheers! John

Dear Mr. Mak, Any respect that I had for "professional" (the ones who supposedly earn an income this way) games reviewers died in the arse with the review of CPR. Up to that point I thought that CGW was one of the few "untouchable" magazines. Regards, ---- Bruce. John Wallace replied to....... > On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:51:28 -0400, "Charles Mak" I'll just wait and see if GPL will do well or not in the stores and with game reviewers.

> Goodbye NG, my work is done. Good work, now that your work is done, perhaps we can ALL sleep easier. ---Jim

It doesn't matter what game reviewers think, 'cos they don't know a thing when it comes to writing up a good review on a racing sim. As long as a sim has good looking graphics and lots of features, the game reviewers are happy. It won't matter if the sim has bad AI and/or a bad driving model. They just won't mention that part then, instead just talk about all the nice graphics, and then they slap a high rating on the sim. How do you think that CPR got good reviews, and even a "game of the year award"?

LOL, was C:PR only made to get the "Game of the year award". There wasn't any other point of making this title IMHO ;-) I am still wondering why they hid the Glide patch? Why they force us to use their D3D? Why they don't listened to us ? Who they actually chosen for the beta-CD? Was is the first 50, or depending on what browser/website they were ? Why Dean went here on r.a.s ? Why is the Cleveland track ***? Why did they told us how "GPS-accurately" the track were ? Why did they hype this game like it was a new-born Messia ? (Insert you psychanalical question) Why did Microsoft chosen to do this game ? Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking) --"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

Assuming your work was to prove how it's possible to have a valid point (about allowing a "complete Noddy" setting for realism) and***it up completely by being insulting and ill-humoured, then yes... good job. Good luck with your next project. Andrew McP... who's all in favour of people cutting against the grain as long as they use a sharp saw and not a blunt chisel

> I'm using a Nascar Pro Wheel. > My GPL controls inputs are set fully at non-linear. > I do notice a lag between the actual input and what the screen shows. I've > toned down the graphics but this lag still shows. Another show of ignorance on your part. You obviously have such poor frame rate that you have not even experienced the GPL demo yet. You truely have no idea of what your talking about. How someone so obviously ignorant can speak as though he know's what he is talking about is really amusing. I'll bet you have rich parents don't you? Tell them to get you a new computer and to stop telling you how superior your ridiculous genes are!

> > Goodbye NG, my work is done. > Good work, now that your work is done, perhaps we can ALL sleep > easier. ...and not have night mares any more about "arcade driving style"... LOL! l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:51:28 -0400, "Charles Mak"

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>Yeah, you know what I think I'm done with my "dribble." I'm just going to >let the Papyrus loving cult have their day in this NG. I'll just wait and >see if GPL will do well or not in the stores and with game reviewers. >I think there are a lot of arrogant, know-it-all, condescending, simulation >freaks in this NG who fail to realise just one thing: Papyrus never took >into account that people use shitty control inputs, including TM T1/T2 and >TM Pro Wheel, ACM gameports, etc. and no company has yet designed a control >input to match GPL's by now famously "accurate" physics model.

Well Charles, I've followed the "discussion" that you, Antoine Renault and others have attempted and I agree quite completely with your above statement as well as the arguements put forward to better compensate for inadequate game controls when trying to simulate real conditions. There is no real point in continued attempts to use logic against the few emotional and blinded types that are associated with Papyrus's products. Its been almost a couple years since I have read any of the posts associated with papy sims, and it hasn't really changed at all. What really suprised me was that some of the people (such as Brian Forbes) seemed to be quite rational in discussions about F1RS before GPL came out. Then all of a sudden, they turn into raving idiots who can only respond with attempts at insulting anyone who tries to discuss issues that don't heap praise on everything that is in the game. Oh well, I find it quite hilarious. Of course, as with any generalization, there are exceptions and there are quite a few individuals who have presented in GPL threads some sound discussions about racing car dynamics that I've found very interesting. These few make it worth while, imo, to at least skim through the other "me-too", "praise be to papy", :"testify brother" type posts. Yes, its acceptable to these people that the linear sensitivity is allowed to be adjusted even if the real 1967 car had no such adjustment (and in fact no real car has such an adjustment), but when it applies to something like an adjustment for the lack in current wheel devices of varying force with varying speed, since it wasn't part of Papy's initial design, no way, anathema to all infidels! Whoops, almost trying to be logical there. *** it. it ain't worth it. I may buy the game, or I may not. But I won't be bothered to post about GPL again either. . See 'ya around in other locals and topics. >>Does that mean we no longer have to listen to you dribble? Yup, enjoy your tranquility of ignorance. Now you can kiss each others asses in peace. That's what you want isn't it? :) DS

> On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:51:28 -0400, "Charles Mak" > >Yeah, you know what I think I'm done with my "dribble." I'm just going to > >let the Papyrus loving cult have their day in this NG. I'll just wait and > >see if GPL will do well or not in the stores and with game reviewers. snip > >>Does that mean we no longer have to listen to you dribble? > Yup, enjoy your tranquility of ignorance. Now you can kiss each > others asses in peace. That's what you want isn't it? :) This is getting really old really fast... ;^) l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm> |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

>I'll repeat again: there is a steering input problem in GPL as in ICR2. It >makes driving a car impossible for some people. I'm not the only one who >has brought up this issue. I just hope that Papyrus does not listen to the >***s in this NG only who pronounce that GPL is perfect. This game will >fall out of the reach of many people who will not be able to master the >unnecessarily difficult steering inputs. And yes, my slider is set all the >way to the right -- at non-linear so don't remind me for the ump***th time >to set my steering at non-linear. I am new to this newsgroup, so maybe I`ve missed some of your previous messages. I think their main reason of existence is to exchange opinions and experiences, especially if they are different. I don`t think this exchange includes insults, even if they are justifiable. With that said, I want to say that I have some problems like the one you describe. Mind you, I am a great fan of PAPYRUS, but also of MICROPROSE, CODEMASTERS and every other company that comes up with good racing simulations. I have 2 computers, and the problem I describe occurs only in one of them. Here are the main specs: PC 1: Motherboard: Hsing-Tech TX Pro CPU: Intel Pentium MMX 166, overclocked to 250 (3 x 83 MHz); flawless for 8 months! RAM: 2 x 32 Mb DIMM HDD: Quantum Bigfoot 4.3 GB Main VGA: ATI Rage II+ w/ 4 Mb 3d Accelerator: CL Blaster 2 Voodoo 2 w/ 8 Mb Soundcard: Creative Labs SB 32 PnP Joystick controller: Thrustmaster T2 wheel and pedals PC 2: Motherboard: Shuttle-HOT 569 (TX) CPU: Intel Pentium MMX 200, overclocked to 250 (3 x 83 MHz); flawless for 4 months! RAM: 1 x 32 Mb DIMM HDD: Quantum Bigfoot 2.5 GB Main VGA: Diamond Stealth II (Rendition 2100) w/ 4 Mb 3d Accelerator: Apocalypse 3Dx w/ 4 Mb + Miro Hiscore 3d Voodoo 1 w/ 6 Mb Soundcard: Creative Labs SB 16 PnP Joystick controller: PC Flight Force Pro (rather expensive for a joystick, but very, very god!) With the Thrustmaster, I experience some lag between steering input and game reaction. This does not occur on the other computer, with the Flight Force joystick. In this case, fine steering corrections are much easier to do accurately, when it would seem that it should be the other way around. Frames rates in both cases are very good, so it is not a problem caused by that. I don`t think it is the fault of the demo code either, because other people with this or similar wheels score good times. I believe it must have something to do with the joystick port, or its drivers. So maybe your problem is similar. If possible, I would suggest that you try your controller on another computer running The GPL demo, or maybe with another soundcard. I will conduct some experiments about this as soon as possible, including switching controllers on the 2 computers. If you, or anyone else, I must also say that this is a very slight problem, because the game, in my experience, rewards finesse over brutality at the steering. My best time with the T2 is 1:09:54, which is not bad, but my best with the Flight Force is 1:08:24. I can regularly run in 1:09`s with it, but I find very difficult to go under 1:10 with the T2, so there must be something in this, as I`m the same guy. P.S.: I am writing this, as always, with good intention. I don`t want to insult anyone. But I don`t like being insulted either. If any of the readers of this message wishes to do so, please use e-mail, not a post. In either case, the result will be the same: no reply. Daniel Fris

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> There is no real point in continued attempts to use logic against the > few emotional and blinded types that are associated with Papyrus's > products. Its been almost a couple years since I have read any of the > posts associated with papy sims, and it hasn't really changed at all. > What really suprised me was that some of the people (such as Brian > Forbes) seemed to be quite rational in discussions about F1RS before > GPL came out. Then all of a sudden, they turn into raving idiots who > can only respond with attempts at insulting anyone who tries to > discuss issues that don't heap praise on everything that is in the > game. Oh well, I find it quite hilarious.

Lets have a little look at this. This Mak fella made about 6 or 7 posts under different headings in 1 day all whining about the same thing and accuses hotlappers of being arcaders or some nonsense. He is obviously frustrated with his inability to go quick and takes it out here like a complete idiot! He then reveals that he uses the "very real" GP2 with opposite lock help at the same time he is labelling GPL an arcade (ROFL) game! And most recently has complained of delayed steering response caused obviously by poor frame rate. He is someone who has NO clue yet speaks as though he's some type of authority - an ideal way to cop a ton of flack. How you can take sides with this peanut is hard to understand but could be linked to the fact that you mis-spelled my name! For a man named Schick your not that sharp!

Hi Charles, sorry if this has been mentioned before, but are you using the optimized controller feature of GPL? With straight DirectX, it is actually pretty difficult to manage. But the "optimized" gadget helps a lot. As for your complaints - I take it that you find the GPL difficult to handle. I can understand that GPL can scare you away because it is fairly sophisticated. But on the other hand, once you've managed to come to terms with the car, it is _extremely_ rewarding, a great sense of achievement and - tremendous _fun_ <g> Don't give up. Try the optimized controller setting, maybe check your steering wheel's pot, and try to take some time to get used to the very realistic driving model. If you are a racing fan, you can't help but loving it after a while, I'm convinced! Achim

Hi John, AHEM!! <g> >On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:51:28 -0400, "Charles Mak" >Do you really think game reviewers know anything about a decent sim? >Now what was their "game of the year" again....? <chortle>

HI Dave, mighty big words you're writing here ;-) I have a few comments to make. real conditions.<< Of course this is desirable for those who have less-than-optimal controllers. OTOH, those of us who think their controller are doing ok have lots of fun with GPL - although it still is realistically difficult to master. Papy could of course have addressed the controller problem, but I think their goal was to create the ultimate realism in a simulation, i.e. the most realistic simulation ever, and this simply doesn't allow them to make the steering unrealistically easy only to compensate for lack of accuracy in some controllers. I find it rather admirable that a sim racing company like Papyrus relinquishes revenue for the sake of realism, as they of course know that the high requirements such a realistic sim poses will limit the magnitude of the potential clientele. Wouldn't you agree that the fact that they are more after ultimate realism than after ultimate money is a very respectable attitude? be adjusted even if the real 1967 car had no such adjustment (and in fact no real car has such an adjustment)<< Actually, such an adjustment exists in modern race cars, and even some normal street cars, like the early European version of the Ford Taurus (called Scorpio over here) had a non-linear steering curve (don't know about the current one). A non-linear steering curve is something absolutely common. I don't know whether they had that at that time, but it is possible. And anyway - first you complain about Papy not making compromises to allow users of less-than-optimal controller here, and now that they give you something that makes it a little easier, you complain, too... ;-) Achim

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> On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:51:28 -0400, "Charles Mak" > >Yeah, you know what I think I'm done with my "dribble." I'm just going to > >let the Papyrus loving cult have their day in this NG. I'll just wait and > >see if GPL will do well or not in the stores and with game reviewers. > Do you really think game reviewers know anything about a decent sim? > Now what was their "game of the year" again....? <chortle> > I have little faith in what reviewers say, and hearing that people > like PC Gamer get all huffy that we slagged off their reviews is quite > amusing really. Maybe do it right next time instead of whinging about > being slagged off for being hopelessly uninforned.

yup. PC Gamer said GPL was an old Indycar sim.

>I find it rather admirable that a sim racing company like Papyrus >relinquishes revenue for the sake of realism, as they of course know that >the high requirements such a realistic sim poses will limit the magnitude of >the potential clientele. Wouldn't you agree that the fact that they are more >after ultimate realism than after ultimate money is a very respectable >attitude? I hope that Papy will (and probably already have in more recent betas of GPL) include some more driving aids. Not that I would use them (who would admit that here, anyway ;) , but I - having no business interest in Papyrus or Sierra - want them to make a whole lot of money with this title. Firstly because I think the Papy folks deserve it, and second- and more importantly for me as a customer, because a company like Papyrus in the future will only be able to create first rate sims if they can also sell them in large quantities to the general public. The more copies they sell of GPL, the more freedom of making a great sim Papyrus will be granted by "the powers that be" for Nascar 3 and ICR3/CART2 (or however they will call it.) -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome. Uni des Saarlands \ and U.S. law. You have been warned.

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>I have 2 computers, and the problem I describe occurs only in one of them. >Here are the main specs: >PC 1: >Motherboard: Hsing-Tech TX Pro >CPU: Intel Pentium MMX 166, overclocked to 250 (3 x 83 MHz); flawless for 8 >months! >RAM: 2 x 32 Mb DIMM >HDD: Quantum Bigfoot 4.3 GB >Main VGA: ATI Rage II+ w/ 4 Mb >3d Accelerator: CL Blaster 2 Voodoo 2 w/ 8 Mb >Soundcard: Creative Labs SB 32 PnP >Joystick controller: Thrustmaster T2 wheel and pedals >PC 2: >Motherboard: Shuttle-HOT 569 (TX) >CPU: Intel Pentium MMX 200, overclocked to 250 (3 x 83 MHz); flawless for 4 >months! >RAM: 1 x 32 Mb DIMM >HDD: Quantum Bigfoot 2.5 GB >Main VGA: Diamond Stealth II (Rendition 2100) w/ 4 Mb >3d Accelerator: Apocalypse 3Dx w/ 4 Mb + Miro Hiscore 3d Voodoo 1 w/ 6 Mb >Soundcard: Creative Labs SB 16 PnP >Joystick controller: PC Flight Force Pro (rather expensive for a joystick, >but very, very god!) >With the Thrustmaster, I experience some lag between steering input and game >reaction. >This does not occur on the other computer, with the Flight Force joystick. >In this case, fine steering corrections are much easier to do accurately, >when it would seem that it should be the other way around.

One interesting thing that I have noted is that with the same machine (a P133, 32 meg, Rendition V1000), GPL allows me to use either DirectInput or optimized input while using joysticks (2 CH Mach I's on a Y-cable) while it will only allow me to use DirectInput with my T2 w/adapter. Why, I don't know. But that may be the control difference you are seeing. Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking... Did he complain to five or six postmasters last month? Now, you must ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you, punk?

Oh, er, and Achim liked it, which is the one thing I could never get my brain to come to terms with! I have no problem with people liking CPR, but when someone who's opinion I respect likes CPR then my brain starts giving logic errors :-) You really confused me on that one Achim - I hope you like GPL, because I think that would be too much to cope with. I'm also seriously looking forward to you, Rik and Doug duking it out at the Nordschleife - Rik and Mike seem to hold tightly to Silverstone throne laps, so you need to establish Germany's pre-eminence at The Ring. Cheers! John

Well, I said in my previous post that I wouldn't bother responding to any further GPL related posts, but since your post is in response to mine and since you make some exemplary points, I'll make one exception. Hold it right there for a moment. Without apparently knowing anything about the hardware that I am using, you make several false assumptions that since someone brings up the issue of modifying the controller input in GPL, that they must have a problem with their equipment; that they are unhappy with the game; and that they dislike the way the car handles. Oh, I see! GPL is a realistic simulation, so, it can't possibly be realistically driven by the keyboard or a joystick since no car (that I know of) has ever been driven by such devices. There is a keyboard and joystick interface though, hmmm. Ah, praise be to Papy, for such devotion to their altruistic principles. They even sold out to Sierra so that they could better follow their dedicated path of non-monetary goals and develop games only for those devotees that respect their true rendition of reality. Obviously, you don't understand the purpose of the "reduce with speed" adjustment. It has been described in great detail by others in previous posts , if you care to look back and re-read them. Briefly, it has to do with providing an adjustment for the lack of variable force in normal game controllers that is inherently present in any mechanically controlled vehicle that has variable inertial, momentum and gyroscopic forces acting on the steering controls. This variable force with speed is as common as linearity apparently, since its included in every vehicle. But others have explained it in better terms. Also, every sim (not just GPL) should have much better calibration tools for such critical components of a simulation. Even some arcade games (eg. Barrage), has separate definable response slopes for each input axis. No complaints about linear adjustments. Another false assumption on your part. Jjust for the record, I have a fairly decent computer system (dual PPro233, 128MB) even if it is almost two years old. With a 3dfx V1, the frame rate with full detail is very smooth. My controller is a TSW wheel and pedals which if you don't know, is a fairly accurate input device. Although its also several years old, I have regularly changed the pots and done routine maintenance so that there is minimal spikes occurring. I have never said that I have a problem with the steering in GPL. This is another false assumption that you apparently made. In fact, I would expect a car such as is modeled in GPL to be extremely loose upon braking at high speed. It would seem to me that GPL is a very accurate representation of the primitive technology that existed 30 years ago. My point in this whole dialog is that GPL players (and Papyrus game players) have an unusual tendency to jump to conclusions and make false assumptions about anyone who attempts to criticize or find anything that could possibly destroy the bubble of bliss that they want to be enveloped in. Because of this, I find it almost pointless to continue any objective and meaningful discussion with those that have such prejudice and blinded devotion. There are others in this ng who have more patience and verbal fortitude than me who will (at least for a while) try to make these issues known. Hehe, anyways...In conclusion, I want to thank you for providing an example of what I was talking about in my previous post. It seems that the real content of my post went wizzing right by your head (as well as others, nothing personal). This post will probably do the same. But, it doesn't really matter, carry on. Over and Out. DS

> One interesting thing that I have noted is that with the same >machine (a P133, 32 meg, Rendition V1000), GPL allows me to use either >DirectInput or optimized input while using joysticks (2 CH Mach I's on >a Y-cable) while it will only allow me to use DirectInput with my T2 >w/adapter. Why, I don't know. But that may be the control difference >you are seeing. Thanks for your reply. Both my machines are on optimized input. By the way, my T2 also uses the adapter, which strengthens my suspucuons about joystick ports/soundcards. I haven`t got around trying a few things, but hopefully I will do it tomorrow and do a post on it.

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> Another show of ignorance on your part. You obviously have such poor > frame rate that you have not even experienced the GPL demo yet. You > truely have no idea of what your talking about. How someone so obviously > ignorant can speak as though he know's what he is talking about is > really amusing. I'll bet you have rich parents don't you? Tell them to > get you a new computer and to stop telling you how superior your > ridiculous genes are!

You must be one of the primadonnas Charles mentioned. And you sound like a real turd. I'm not taking any position here on the arguments raised, but I'm just unimpressed by your reply above. Grow up.

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> > Another show of ignorance on your part. You obviously have such poor > > frame rate that you have not even experienced the GPL demo yet. You > > truely have no idea of what your talking about. How someone so obviously > > ignorant can speak as though he know's what he is talking about is > > really amusing. I'll bet you have rich parents don't you? Tell them to > > get you a new computer and to stop telling you how superior your > > ridiculous genes are! > You must be one of the primadonnas Charles mentioned. And you sound like > a real turd. > I'm not taking any position here on the arguments raised, but I'm just > unimpressed by your reply above. > Grow up.

Well you'll really love this then. Get back in the kitchen and shutup!