NASCAR 3 Wishlist

Heres my list of what I would like to see in NASCAR 3... feel free to add to it 1. Cars that dont get stuck behind cars stopped on the track (ie after a crash) 2. AI cars that dont drive through each other during high speed collisions during large crashes 3. No canned spins (cars spontaneously spinning out) 4. AI that will sometimes bump other cars 5. Side by side restarts 6. 3d sound support 7. Cars leave tire marks on the road 8. Cars leave tire marks on the walls and on other cars (yeah, this is probably asking a bit much) 9. 3D pit and other walls (like in F1RS)... none of them 2d walls 10. Cars not restricted to a pre-programmed "best line" around the track (not sure how possible this is... but didnt they do it in SODA?) Brian Short

Maybe it sounds stupid, but I would like to have a view from a grandstand in the replay mode :) It's like I'm just a spectator watching the race from my seat. Dmitry

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>Heres my list of what I would like to see in NASCAR 3... feel free to >add to it >1. Cars that dont get stuck behind cars stopped on the track (ie after a >crash) >2. AI cars that dont drive through each other during high speed >collisions during large crashes >3. No canned spins (cars spontaneously spinning out) >4. AI that will sometimes bump other cars >5. Side by side restarts >6. 3d sound support >7. Cars leave tire marks on the road >8. Cars leave tire marks on the walls and on other cars (yeah, this is >probably asking a bit much) >9. 3D pit and other walls (like in F1RS)... none of them 2d walls >10. Cars not restricted to a pre-programmed "best line" around the >track (not sure how possible this is... but didnt they do it in SODA?) >Brian Short

When the car gets damaged. I would like to be able to jump out of the pits to keep from going a lap down and go around and come back in to finish repairs, like they do in real life.... Dave

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>Heres my list of what I would like to see in NASCAR 3... feel free to >add to it >1. Cars that dont get stuck behind cars stopped on the track (ie after a >crash) >2. AI cars that dont drive through each other during high speed >collisions during large crashes >3. No canned spins (cars spontaneously spinning out) >4. AI that will sometimes bump other cars >5. Side by side restarts >6. 3d sound support >7. Cars leave tire marks on the road >8. Cars leave tire marks on the walls and on other cars (yeah, this is >probably asking a bit much) >9. 3D pit and other walls (like in F1RS)... none of them 2d walls >10. Cars not restricted to a pre-programmed "best line" around the >track (not sure how possible this is... but didnt they do it in SODA?) >Brian Short

This post pertains to multiplayer Nascar3. I am curious what percentage of people use multiplayer vs. offline racing against the computer. I find multiplayer on kali to be many times more exhilirating than racing the computer AI cars. I race online via kali ([link lost in import] )I have yet to try NROS on TEN but I hear that racing against 20 other drivers with damage on is the ultimate. Most all of the items I've seen so far have had to do with improving the graphics and the computer AI experience. These all of course would improve the final product. However it seems a large percentage of the readers in this newsgroup appreciate, thrive on, and have come to expect the ultimate in real life simulation from Papyrus products and specifically the Nascar genre. IMHO there is nothing that adds to the realistic nature of a racing sim than going head to head against another human. Multiplayer racing gets your heart pounding and puts you through an emotional roller coaster. Are there many of you out there who race online or via modem? I may be wrong about this but it seems to me that adding all of the bells and whistles that have been suggested would be an overwhelming task to the developers and make the final program huge and drive the hardware requirements very high. Of course I would eventually like to see everything imaginable included. This fact may make for several more Nascar racing versions in the future, I would certainly purchase each new release in the relentless pursuit of the most realistic experience possible. The reality of meeting release dates and profitability naturally force companies to prioritize development efforts. And in contrast to graphical and AI enhancements it seems to me that improving the multiplayer experience is much more readily achievable in a shorter period of time and perhaps with fewer resources. But Papyrus also must consider the target users and how they will use Nascar3. So I feel that those who enjoy multiplayer must also voice their desires both so that their suggestions may be included and also so that Papyrus understands the demand for the best online experience. Also on a business note it seems that with services such as NROS Papyrus has a vehicle to generate continuous income after the initial sale. These 'users' may perhaps also be categorized as a devoted market who seek the ultimate in realism. This is a market that should expand among users who have only raced against the AI and yet also desire the ultimate in realism. This target market IMHO only needs to be enticed to try racing online. Once they have experienced the thrill and meaning given to beating a real person they would be hooked. Once hooked on the multiplayer experience and the services provided, this devoted market would expand - expanding the revenue stream and locking in users to future releases. In light of these points it seems to me that there is considerable incentive to Papyrus to optimize the multiplayer experience thus putting its development higher on the priority list. Multiplayer racing best meets the desire of Papyrus fans and the goals of Papyrus by delivering the best in real world simulation. To improve the already superlative experience of multiplayer Nascar racing I would like to see the following improvements: 1.) The ability to watch the rest of a race as a spectator in the event you blow your engine or are disqualified or even if you just drop out of a race because you are so far behind or completely frustrated. Currently your only options are to sit it out on the side of the track or in the pits (very boring) or disconnect. For instance Mechwarrior by Activision gives players this capability and it can be fun just to watch your friends battling it out. In the pursuit of realism some people have formed teams on NROS to compete at the highest levels and even obtain real sponsors! Perhaps if people who are not racing but would like to enjoy *** competition at its best could connect and watch a race as a spectator in real time the audience for sponsors would grow as in real life. These spectators seeing the truly exciting race and harboring their own hopes of driving as skillfully would soon become paying members of an online service. Perhaps this could be achieved by using some type of broadcast technology. 2.) A more robust network connection scheme. In Nascar2 when trying to join a multiplayer game if the connection cannot be established I typically have to exit all the way out of N2 and go back in. This is frustrating and takes too much time. It seems we should be able to just try again from the same screen. 3.) Perhaps the most frustrating glitch occurs after all of the race options have been set and agreed upon by all racers. As in offline racing you have to go through the practice, qualify, warmup, and race screens before hitting the starting line. The glitch is that frequently one racer gets stuck in the practice screen. This forces everyone to go back to setup options and start the launch over while the racer that got stuck usually has to disconnect and rejoin the race. 4.) If a race is completed and all racers are chatting in the setup options screen and someone joins the race the host's computer will almost surely lockup when the race is launched. It would be nice if the computer recognized new racers joining and automatically increased the number of racers when someone joins or decreased the number of racers when someone leaves. At a minimum this should not cause the computer to lock up. When the computer is rebooted the internet connection must be reestablished, nascar2 has to be restarted and if using kali it also must be launched. This is all very time consuming, frustrating and *** the computer. The only way to avoid the lockups now is for everyone to exit nascar2 and then reconnect before launching the race. 5.) The last problem I would like to see fixed is computer lockups requiring a reboot caused miscellaneous reasons. The program shell should fail safe when connection problems occur due to poor latency. Perhaps most of these connection problems stem from the fact that N2 multiplayer was designed for LAN's and modem play. N3 needs to be robustly designed with the internet as the primary focus, since few people can afford their own network and don't have the luxury of having a boss who likes to race on the company network. And it is too difficult to find racers using a modem then if you do chances are you will need to dial long distance whereas on the internet you can always find someone to race at most anytime of the day any day of the week.

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>Heres my list of what I would like to see in NASCAR 3... feel free to >add to it >1. Cars that dont get stuck behind cars stopped on the track (ie after a >crash) >2. AI cars that dont drive through each other during high speed >collisions during large crashes >3. No canned spins (cars spontaneously spinning out) >4. AI that will sometimes bump other cars >5. Side by side restarts >6. 3d sound support >7. Cars leave tire marks on the road >8. Cars leave tire marks on the walls and on other cars (yeah, this is >probably asking a bit much) >9. 3D pit and other walls (like in F1RS)... none of them 2d walls >10. Cars not restricted to a pre-programmed "best line" around the >track (not sure how possible this is... but didnt they do it in SODA?) >Brian Short

You can do this in N2. While in pits getting repairs hit the F9 key and then enter to cancel repairs. Usually there is a delay so it is good to do this when you hear the pace car is in Turn 3. -- Brian Tate BTate80 on TEN Assist LA for THOMAS ENTERPRISES HAWAII ACE LEAGUE http://dithots.org

More like deadly, I gurantee there will be at least 1 big crash before the race is over > Most all of the items I've seen so far have had to do with improving the

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>graphics and the computer AI experience. These all of course would improve >the final product. However it seems a large percentage of the readers in >this newsgroup appreciate, thrive on, and have come to expect the ultimate >in real life simulation from Papyrus products and specifically the Nascar >genre. IMHO there is nothing that adds to the realistic nature of a racing >sim than going head to head against another human. Multiplayer racing gets >your heart pounding and puts you through an emotional roller coaster. Are >there many of you out there who race online or via modem? > I may be wrong about this but it seems to me that adding all of the >bells and whistles that have been suggested would be an overwhelming task

to >the developers and make the final program huge and drive the hardware >requirements very high. Of course I would eventually like to see everything >imaginable included. This fact may make for several more Nascar racing >versions in the future, I would certainly purchase each new release in the >relentless pursuit of the most realistic experience possible. The reality of

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>meeting release dates and profitability naturally force companies to >prioritize development efforts. And in contrast to graphical and AI >enhancements it seems to me that improving the multiplayer experience is >much more readily achievable in a shorter period of time and perhaps with >fewer resources. But Papyrus also must consider the target users and how >they will use Nascar3. So I feel that those who enjoy multiplayer must also >voice their desires both so that their suggestions may be included and also >so that Papyrus understands the demand for the best online experience. > Also on a business note it seems that with services such as NROS

Papyrus

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>has a vehicle to generate continuous income after the initial sale. These >'users' may perhaps also be categorized as a devoted market who seek the >ultimate in realism. This is a market that should expand among users who >have only raced against the AI and yet also desire the ultimate in realism. >This target market IMHO only needs to be enticed to try racing online. Once >they have experienced the thrill and meaning given to beating a real person >they would be hooked. Once hooked on the multiplayer experience and the >services provided, this devoted market would expand - expanding the revenue >stream and locking in users to future releases. In light of these points it >seems to me that there is considerable incentive to Papyrus to optimize the >multiplayer experience thus putting its development higher on the priority >list. Multiplayer racing best meets the desire of Papyrus fans and the

goals

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>of Papyrus by delivering the best in real world simulation. > To improve the already superlative experience of multiplayer Nascar >racing I would like to see the following improvements: >1.) The ability to watch the rest of a race as a spectator in the event you >blow your engine or are disqualified or even if you just drop out of a race >because you are so far behind or completely frustrated. Currently your only >options are to sit it out on the side of the track or in the pits (very >boring) or disconnect. For instance Mechwarrior by Activision gives players >this capability and it can be fun just to watch your friends battling it >out. In the pursuit of realism some people have formed teams on NROS to >compete at the highest levels and even obtain real sponsors! Perhaps if >people who are not racing but would like to enjoy *** competition at its >best could connect and watch a race as a spectator in real time the

audience

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>for sponsors would grow as in real life. These spectators seeing the truly >exciting race and harboring their own hopes of driving as skillfully would >soon become paying members of an online service. Perhaps this could be >achieved by using some type of broadcast technology. >2.) A more robust network connection scheme. In Nascar2 when trying to join >a multiplayer game if the connection cannot be established I typically have >to exit all the way out of N2 and go back in. This is frustrating and takes >too much time. It seems we should be able to just try again from the same >screen. >3.) Perhaps the most frustrating glitch occurs after all of the race

options >have been set and agreed upon by all racers. As in offline racing you have >to go through the practice, qualify, warmup, and race screens before hitting >the starting line. The glitch is that frequently one racer gets stuck in the >practice screen. This forces everyone to go back to setup options and start >the launch over while the racer that got stuck usually has to disconnect and

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>rejoin the race. >4.) If a race is completed and all racers are chatting in the setup options >screen and someone joins the race the host's computer will almost surely >lockup when the race is launched. It would be nice if the computer >recognized new racers joining and automatically increased the number of >racers when someone joins or decreased the number of racers when someone >leaves. At a minimum this should not cause the computer to lock up. When

the

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>computer is rebooted the internet connection must be reestablished, nascar2 >has to be restarted and if using kali it also must be launched. This is all >very time consuming, frustrating and *** the computer. The only way to >avoid the lockups now is for everyone to exit nascar2 and then reconnect >before launching the race. >5.) The last problem I would like to see fixed is computer lockups

requiring

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>a reboot caused miscellaneous reasons. The program shell should fail safe >when connection problems occur due to poor latency. Perhaps most of these >connection problems stem from the fact that N2 multiplayer was designed for >LAN's and modem play. N3 needs to be robustly designed with the internet as >the primary focus, since few people can afford their own network and don't >have the luxury of having a boss who likes to race on the company network. >And it is too difficult to find racers using a modem then if you do chances >are you will need to dial long distance whereas on the internet you can >always find someone to race at most anytime of the day any day of the week. >>Heres my list of what I would like to see in NASCAR 3... feel free to >>add to it >>1. Cars that dont get stuck behind cars stopped on the track (ie after a >>crash) >>2. AI cars that dont drive through each other during high speed >>collisions during large crashes >>3. No canned spins (cars spontaneously spinning out) >>4. AI that will sometimes bump other cars >>5. Side by side restarts >>6. 3d sound support >>7. Cars leave tire marks on the road >>8. Cars leave tire marks on the walls and on other cars (yeah, this is >>probably asking a bit much) >>9. 3D pit and other walls (like in F1RS)... none of them 2d walls >>10. Cars not restricted to a pre-programmed "best line" around the >>track (not sure how possible this is... but didnt they do it in SODA?) >>Brian Short

>Maybe it sounds stupid, but I would like to have a view from a grandstand in >the replay mode :) >It's like I'm just a spectator watching the race from my seat. >Dmitry I too have had this idea, and it is a great one!!!!! Even better would be a positional camera like in FIFA98, that way you could view replays from wherever you want to.... one the lighter side: Dammit I want to drive the blimp and helecopter too It would make a nice crash replay, emagine landing the blimp on the back stretch at Dega and just waiting for the leaders to come out of turn 2!!!!! (LOL) Josh Taylor (remove "NOSPAM" from email to reply)

Support For H3D Glasses!!! Oh YEAH!!

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>Heres my list of what I would like to see in NASCAR 3... feel free to >add to it >1. Cars that dont get stuck behind cars stopped on the track (ie after a >crash) >2. AI cars that dont drive through each other during high speed >collisions during large crashes >3. No canned spins (cars spontaneously spinning out) >4. AI that will sometimes bump other cars >5. Side by side restarts >6. 3d sound support >7. Cars leave tire marks on the road >8. Cars leave tire marks on the walls and on other cars (yeah, this is >probably asking a bit much) >9. 3D pit and other walls (like in F1RS)... none of them 2d walls >10. Cars not restricted to a pre-programmed "best line" around the >track (not sure how possible this is... but didnt they do it in SODA?) >Brian Short

John Dubuque wrote I find multiplayer on kali to be many times more exhilirating than First of all, if you are not already on the NROS, you are missing most, if not all of the multiplayer that you can posess in Nascar2. It's a non-sence to not be on it IMHO. THere is multiple rate plans to help people if they think it's too much expensive (well me it's 1 less 24-pack of beer each month ;-) ). There is some, mostly friends (via modem) who are close living. There isn't many poeple on Kali and such, compared to the 4000 drivers on the NROS ! Since the new game engine is focused on multiplayer racing, you can be 100% sure that all the upcoming Papyrus titles will have a great multiplayer implementation. Remember than GPL , in beta, was available in multiplayer before any AI . Well, I agree here. Papyrus devotes times, money and staff for them, but also to make the most realistic possible driving simulator. There is a market. AFAIK, the sales for Nascar2 are over 500000. And there is only 4000 drivers on the NROS. There is still a HUGE gap of people. I would easily say that multiplayer will be greatly improved, and TCP/IP right out of the box will help the product A LOT !!! I also would think that the NROS will be advertised more than in Nascar2 (maybe not only a little brochure). This is already on the NROS. In any case, hop in the replay menu, and press the ||> arrow. You will be seing the track "live" (just look at GPL, there is a live feed alternative to this). Sure there is a little lag (some cars dissapear), but it's a great thing to study racing line, and checking who the darn hit you in the rear ;-) Can't really say much (the NROS architecture is day and night compared to the N2 multiplayer features). Remember than now the game engine has an awesome client/server engine, so be sure at 100% that the connections (time and way to..) will be better. On the NROS, the race options are decided by the race creator, so you like it or you don't. I can't see 1 guy racing in arcade mode while the other in simulator mode. You can set time limits for practice/warm-up on the NROS, and IMHO I don't like getting already into the race without any form of practice. Hope I helped you a little (but please, hop on the NROS !!!!!) Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking) --"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

>>Maybe it sounds stupid, but I would like to have a view from a grandstand in >>the replay mode :) >>It's like I'm just a spectator watching the race from my seat. >I too have had this idea, and it is a great one!!!!! >Even better would be a positional camera like in FIFA98, that way you >could view replays from wherever you want to.... Well, the problem here is the clipping. You know a soccer stadium isn't that big, but Talladega sure is !!!!!!. Even tracks like Hickory and Martinsville have clipping of some sort. So you would see the action near, but if you want to look at the end of the track it would be invisible. I know the clipping will be less in Nascar3, but there is always going to be some at huge tracks like Talladega. Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking) Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking) --"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

> Heres my list of what I would like to see in NASCAR 3... feel free to > add to it snip > 9. 3D pit and other walls (like in F1RS)... none of them 2d walls But gimme the option to stay seated in the car! I hate this switching to the outside view in F1RS... 8^( l8er ronny -- Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure, kiddo?" |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Yes it is. Twenty drivers head into turn one at Talladega and 12 come out of turn two alive. The trick is to, either take a provisional and start at the back, or qualify into the first couple of rows and hope that the racers up there with you are capable of getting through the first few laps without takin each other out. Most often the crashes occur in the middle of the pack. Actually you can do this at TEN. I don't know about Kali though. If you get crashed out but would like to watch the rest of the race you just hit the "esc" key, back to the pre-race window, where you have the option of the viewing the replay and you can watch the action in the replay mode as the race is still going on. Dave http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/4340

>>1.) The ability to watch the rest of a race as a spectator in the event you >>blow your engine or are disqualified or even if you just drop out of a race >>because you are so far behind or completely frustrated. Currently your only >>options are to sit it out on the side of the track or in the pits (very >>boring) or disconnect. For instance Mechwarrior by Activision gives players >>this capability and it can be fun just to watch your friends battling it >>out. In the pursuit of realism some people have formed teams on NROS to >Actually you can do this at TEN. I don't know about Kali though. If you get >crashed out but would like to watch the rest of the race you just hit the >"esc" key, back to the pre-race window, where you have the option of the >viewing the replay and you can watch the action in the replay mode as the race >is still going on. >Dave >http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/4340 Thanks for the tip Dave. I tried this on kali and it works! I love it. I blew my engine then hit escape and replay then shift + > and watched my competitors fight it out. Then I was able to comment on their driving ability.......what fun. BTW I was watching from the leaders front bumper when he hit the wall. Talk about realism, it was better than watching on TV!