GPL: Passing?

I was wondering what everyones opinion is on how difficult it will be to pass in GPL. I seem to be having a tough enough time driving the correct line, and I'm afraid to know what it will be like possibly trying to pass someone on the outside of a turn. I've only been playing this sim since Wednesday and have so far gotten a best lap of 1:10.87. I know that is nowhere near what some people are running, but my question is this. I am able to run consistent 1:11's for over an hour without spinning. What kind of consistent lap times are the rest of you running? I was also wondering at which RPM you guys think is the best to shift the Lotus at? I usually shift at 1000 rpm below TDC. Does this seem about right to you, or should I shift 1500-2000 below TDC. And last but not least, where do you like to have your steering set at? I like mine all the way over at linear, but it does seem a little twitchy. Well, sorry about the long post, and thanks for the replys. Eric

For 3 days worth of practice, your times are excellent. You should have no trouble competing. I'm kind of curious what the internet races will be like. I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of crash and burn racing. That's not meant as a knock on anyone either. :-) Dave (DmndDave)

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>I was wondering what everyones opinion is on how difficult it will be >to pass in GPL. I seem to be having a tough enough time driving the >correct line, and I'm afraid to know what it will be like possibly >trying to pass someone on the outside of a turn. > I've only been playing this sim since Wednesday and have so far gotten >a best lap of 1:10.87. I know that is nowhere near what some people are >running, but my question is this. I am able to run consistent 1:11's >for over an hour without spinning. What kind of consistent lap times >are the rest of you running?

> I was wondering what everyones opinion is on how difficult it will be > to pass in GPL. I seem to be having a tough enough time driving the > correct line, and I'm afraid to know what it will be like possibly > trying to pass someone on the outside of a turn. Passing on the outside in a turn is always going to be a very risky proposition, more so in an online environment. If I had to guess, I'd say that most passing in GPL will take place in the braking zones and on the straights. It's quite a feat to pass someone in a turn if they're on the proper line... unless they're going unusually slowly. 1:10.87 and you've only been playing simce Wednesday... I take back what I said about passing on the outside... you'll likely be able to pass me on the outside and make it stick every time. You don't want to know how pathetic my lap times are compared to yours. Trips

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> Passing on the outside in a turn is always going to be a very risky > proposition, more so in an online environment. If I had to guess, I'd > say that most passing in GPL will take place in the braking zones and on > the straights. It's quite a feat to pass someone in a turn if they're on > the proper line... unless they're going unusually slowly. > 1:10.87 and you've only been playing simce Wednesday... I take back what > I said about passing on the outside... you'll likely be able to pass me > on the outside and make it stick every time. You don't want to know how > pathetic my lap times are compared to yours. > Trips

Thanks for the complement. But I really would like to know what kind of average lap times people are running. I've seen some 1:06 replays, and in my opinion, they are so loose, I don't see how they would be able to run competivily unless they are in front.

> I was wondering what everyones opinion is on how difficult it will be > to pass in GPL. I seem to be having a tough enough time driving the > correct line, and I'm afraid to know what it will be like possibly > trying to pass someone on the outside of a turn. i occaisonally veer around the straights pretending to pass imaginary cars just to try this out:) it'll be a bit of a handful i think. Sudden attempts at passing are going to cause you to cash in your chips a bit early, so it'll be smooth passing action. which i guess relies on the person you are passing to not be a prat and cut you off. i think we'll see some major amounts passing-under-braking in this game:) but it'll depend on who is the more idiotic to try and brake late... i suspect a good pass maneouver will be to brake early, let the guy who's on your inside outbrake you and run wide, then duck underneath:) ha:) that laptime plus your consistency is very very good for jsut 3 days. give yourself 50 hours in the***pit like those really fast guys (some of them are probably over 100 hours by now) and you will be right up there. I'm at about the 45-50 hour mark or thereabouts, and my best is a 1:07.36, but i still have so much more to learn! this game is a game where it will take years before we get bored with it:) um, not sure about anyone else, but if my concentration is "in" i can lap at about 1:07.9 average for 20 laps or so before my concentration fails and i start spinning. i have never figured out how to race without spinning once my concentration fails even when i slow down, so i can't give a average laptime for an hour's consistent racing. i expect some of those 1:06 guys could probably average under 1:07.5 very easily. what's TDC ? I shift at about 8500 rpm. i use full linear too. don't like non-linear:) but i just got a new digital gamecard so my steering is a lot more precise than it was, except the gamecard doesn't read the wheel's pot linearly (or even nonlinearly, it just reads it weird) no it wasn't long;) keep up the practice! Grant.

They will be very competitive, believe me, they've practiced around 50 - 100 hours in the demo and has probably around 1000 hours in previous racing sims. They'll be competitive for sure :o). They have probably no trouble at all lapping forever in the 1:08's unless they fell asleep :o). I haven't tried, but I think I and Grant can stay very long in the 1:09's. I was pretty consistent in Grand Prix 2, which was harder to be consistent in than F1RS, IMO. My best race ever in Grand Prix 2 was the Pacific race at www.lfrs.com 97/98 season. Ian Lake (fast in GP2 and fast in GPL) was also in that race and beat me, we had very similar qual time and best lap time, and both of us did very few mistakes in that race if any :o). We both drove without any helps or aids whatsoever of course. We got beaten by another no helps and no aids driver, though. He beat us by 0.3 sec in qual and 1.5 sec in fastest lap. /Christer, hope you're convinced that their 1:06's isn't luck, but instead an incredible amount of talent and practice :o) > Thanks for the complement. But I really would like to know what kind of > average lap times people are running. I've seen some 1:06 replays, and > in my opinion, they are so loose, I don't see how they would be able to > run competivily unless they are in front.

% I was wondering what everyones opinion is on how difficult it will be % to pass in GPL. I seem to be having a tough enough time driving the % correct line, and I'm afraid to know what it will be like possibly % trying to pass someone on the outside of a turn. If we are talking about AI, that will depend on how well Papy programs them. If the AI will be programmed to race like mere mortals, they will make mistakes from time to time and you will have your chance to pass. The same goes for human drivers... I assume you will need to drive near perfect laps and wait for the opportunity to pass when it arises. Hopefully Papy will program a little "nervousness" into the AI. I don't want them to roll over if I make a stab at a pass, but I sure want them to start to "worry" each time. The above scenario should make for a good "racing" *simulation*. Once we are able to setup our cars, I am sure they won't be as twitchy and wild. Then we should feel confident to try out-braking and a few off-line passes (when the track allows). <snip> -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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>I was wondering what everyones opinion is on how difficult it will be >to pass in GPL. I seem to be having a tough enough time driving the >correct line, and I'm afraid to know what it will be like possibly >trying to pass someone on the outside of a turn. > I've only been playing this sim since Wednesday and have so far gotten >a best lap of 1:10.87. I know that is nowhere near what some people are >running, but my question is this. I am able to run consistent 1:11's >for over an hour without spinning. What kind of consistent lap times >are the rest of you running? > I was also wondering at which RPM you guys think is the best to shift >the Lotus at? I usually shift at 1000 rpm below TDC. Does this seem >about right to you, or should I shift 1500-2000 below TDC. > And last but not least, where do you like to have your steering set >at? I like mine all the way over at linear, but it does seem a little >twitchy. > Well, sorry about the long post, and thanks for the replys. >Eric

Hi Eric, A few remarks: 1. The GPL-DEMO is shipped with a bad setup. 2. Tyre wear is not modelled in the DEMO. 3. You're doing great, 1.10 in such a short time. So, in the final version you could setup the car to your own driving style. This 1.06 laps is great for hotlapping, but in the race you need a different driving style to preserve your tyres. Remco

> > I was also wondering at which RPM you guys think is the best to shift > > the Lotus at? I usually shift at 1000 rpm below TDC. Does this seem > > about right to you, or should I shift 1500-2000 below TDC. > what's TDC ? > I shift at about 8500 rpm. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but I shift 1000 rpm below the needle being straigt up.

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>If we are talking about AI, that will depend on how well Papy programs >them. If the AI will be programmed to race like mere mortals, they will >make mistakes from time to time and you will have your chance to pass. >The same goes for human drivers... I assume you will need to drive near >perfect laps and wait for the opportunity to pass when it arises. >Hopefully Papy will program a little "nervousness" into the AI. I don't >want them to roll over if I make a stab at a pass, but I sure want them >to start to "worry" each time.

I sure hope they are a bit more intelligent than in Nascar 2 or indycar racing, where the whole field will line up behind you if you park nicely in a corner. Then they'll start crawling past you one by one very slowly. And I hope they won't have a Schumi modelled there, he'd turn into you in every pass attempt (aagh a flamebait). -Juha --

I am predicting that both the computer and human opponents will be quite easy to pass! :))))

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> I was wondering what everyones opinion is on how difficult it will be > to pass in GPL. I seem to be having a tough enough time driving the > correct line, and I'm afraid to know what it will be like possibly > trying to pass someone on the outside of a turn. > I've only been playing this sim since Wednesday and have so far gotten > a best lap of 1:10.87. I know that is nowhere near what some people are > running, but my question is this. I am able to run consistent 1:11's > for over an hour without spinning. What kind of consistent lap times > are the rest of you running? > I was also wondering at which RPM you guys think is the best to shift > the Lotus at? I usually shift at 1000 rpm below TDC. Does this seem > about right to you, or should I shift 1500-2000 below TDC. > And last but not least, where do you like to have your steering set > at? I like mine all the way over at linear, but it does seem a little > twitchy. > Well, sorry about the long post, and thanks for the replys. > Eric

TDC = Top Dead Centre. Although how on earth he can see the timing mark on the main engine pulley from the***pit, I'm ***ed if I know!

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> > > I was also wondering at which RPM you guys think is the best to shift > > > the Lotus at? I usually shift at 1000 rpm below TDC. Does this seem > > > about right to you, or should I shift 1500-2000 below TDC. > > what's TDC ? > > I shift at about 8500 rpm. > I'm not sure what the numbers are, but I shift 1000 rpm below the > needle being straigt up.

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

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> TDC = Top Dead Centre. > Although how on earth he can see the timing mark on the main engine > pulley from the***pit, I'm ***ed if I know! > > > > I was also wondering at which RPM you guys think is the best to shift > > > > the Lotus at? I usually shift at 1000 rpm below TDC. Does this seem > > > > about right to you, or should I shift 1500-2000 below TDC. > > > what's TDC ? > > > I shift at about 8500 rpm. > > I'm not sure what the numbers are, but I shift 1000 rpm below the > > needle being straigt up. > -- > Regards, > Bruce. > ---------- > The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:- > http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

I suppose you want me to tell you how I adjust the timing from the ***pit too, huh? Oops, I forgot. My car won't have active system for about 20 more years. Eric

I think what he's getting at is the people that set their cars up so loose are fine turning great laps until they are in traffic, then all hell breaks loose. I can't count how many fast drivers I've seen take each other out in turns even on simple tracks like dega. It's a nitemare to try and pass a driver like this and a nitemare to be passed by one. In rl, you'd never get away with nor would a real driver try with half the setups these "super fast" guys run. I'm not saying there aren't guys who aren't fast without resorting to barely controllable setups (I've seen quite a few), but I've seen plenty who are only competitive by themselves. ;) Smokin_D. |/Christer, hope you're convinced that their 1:06's isn't luck, but instead an

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|incredible amount of talent and practice :o) | | |> Thanks for the complement. But I really would like to know what kind of |> average lap times people are running. I've seen some 1:06 replays, and |> in my opinion, they are so loose, I don't see how they would be able to |> run competivily unless they are in front. | | |

>I think what he's getting at is the people that set their cars up so loose >are fine turning great laps until they are in traffic, then all hell breaks >loose. I can't count how many fast drivers I've seen take each other out in >turns even on simple tracks like dega. >I'm not saying there aren't guys who aren't fast without resorting to >barely controllable setups (I've seen quite a few), but I've seen plenty who are Definitely true. Hotlapping and racing against real, or even computer opponents, are two very different things. Some guys practice the perfect lap so much, that when they are thrown into a real race, and have to use different lines and speed, they are lost. I get a little bored hotlapping after awhile. I have to get a top lap time fairly quickly. I'm not going to spend 20, 30, 100 hours trying for the ultimate lap, get it, and then pat myself on the back. If it takes me that long, I don't feel like I've accomplished anything. There is no decision making required during hotlapping after awhile. You have just memorized every action. The best part of sim racing, for me, is internet races against the top drivers. That's where the skill level is really tested. The e***ment and fun level goes way up and the racing is more difficult and rewarding. Hotlapping and AI races are far behind. >|/Christer, hope you're convinced that their 1:06's isn't luck, but instead >an >|incredible amount of talent and practice :o) Incredible amount of practice, yes. Talent, not necessarily. I think most guys with a decent amount of talent (even a chimp maybe) could get a fast hotlap time with enough hours behind the wheel. It's the guys who get there quickly and then can go up against real opponents and still win. I could name some sim drivers who I'm sure will be at the top of the class in GPL. One already has quickly and expectedly made his mark in GPL with a best fast lap. They are just as fast when going head to head in internet races too and I'd bet on them to win every time. Some people have good talent, but just don't have the time to race as much as they'd like. They seem to do well in internet races regardless. Then there are the ones who are slow and have little chance of winning but have the right spirit and are as fun to race as anyone. :-) Dave (DmndDave)

I'm e***d to see the AI in this one. If you look in the driver.ini you will see many promising words. [ driver_1 ] team_number = 6 car_number = 5 first_name = Jim last_name = Clark home_town = Kilmany nationality = 12 helmet_color = 1 bump_order = 19 aggression = 1.030000 (How late will he brake? Will he hold his line?) alertness = 1.030000 (Will he know when to let go of his line?) experience = 1.010000 (How often will he know when to let go of his line.) hype = 1.000000 (How many platform and haltertop clad girlies line up in the paddocks after the race to meet him?) qualifying = 1.030000 quickness = 1.050000 (How early does he accelerate, and can that guy shift or what?) smoothness = 1.050000 (Waiting for him to make a mistake is not a valid strategy.) I'm getting in the 108's six out of ten laps. I've been average at sim games the whole time so I probably am here too. I shift at about 1000 below redline for the car. My question is not how to pass the AI. It's how to get passed in an online race and still maintain my self respect. :-) -- mark "A lot of people think racing is about going fast. But it's not. It's about going just slow enough to stay on the track." F1RS - http://www.nmia.com/~chaser/car/results.htm Remove us here and there to mail me. I was wondering what everyones opinion is on how difficult it will be to pass in GPL,<clip> Eric