Total Immersion Racing

I got this game a couple weeks ago and finally tried playing it. The steering is very poor though, all the cars are very touchy at high speed.

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:07 -0500, "magnulus" <[email hidden]> wrote: > I got this game a couple weeks ago and finally tried playing it. The >steering is very poor though, all the cars are very touchy at high speed. > Get the Hardcore Physics Patch at http://irlheat.bhmotorsports.com/TIR/ Forum at http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forum/ /petern

> Get the Hardcore Physics Patch at > http://irlheat.bhmotorsports.com/TIR/ Yeah, though 'Hardcore' isn't a word I'd use to describe it...

OK, I tried the patch and the cars are less twitchy, but here's my problem now- zero grip! On the turns I'm finding I have to brake really, really hard (in some cases drop the speed down to 30mph) or the road is like ice. Maybe I'll just go back to playing Sports Car GT.

Try practicing a few laps at each track with the race engineer function turned on, before you go to race there... The game will automatically start to improve the handling and grip of the car as you cut clean practice laps. "magnulus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3x15c.6209$[email hidden]... > OK, I tried the patch and the cars are less twitchy, but here's myproblem > now- zero grip! On the turns I'm finding I have to brake really, really > hard (in some cases drop the speed down to 30mph) or the road is like ice. > Maybe I'll just go back to playing Sports Car GT. > >

"Damien Evans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<c30ngj$226su2$[email hidden]>... > > Get the Hardcore Physics Patch at > > http://irlheat.bhmotorsports.com/TIR/ > > Yeah, though 'Hardcore' isn't a word I'd use to describe it... "Hardcore" is in the eye of the beholder, apparently. I'd say the "Hardcore" physics patch basically does for TIR what the advanced physics patch did for SCGT -- and it's certainly "hardcore" with respect to the out-of-the-box physics values from Razorworks. Your mileage may vary, of course, and I will give you this -- patch or no patch, it's still not GPL. ;-) -- JB

In article <a435c.12866$_w.297260@attbi_s53>, "Jay J" <[email hidden]> writes: >Try practicing a few laps at each track with the race engineer function >turned on, before you go to race there... >The game will automatically start to improve the handling and grip of the >car as you cut clean practice laps. Race engineer? Cool, I wish that was in N2k3 or F1 C. It would help us mechanically-challenged types. Eldred -- http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Screamers League IICC League GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80 Ch.Rank +52.58 MoC +741.71 Hist. +82.34 MoH:na N2k3 rank:in progress Slayer Spektera lvl 72 assassin Slayer Spectral_K lvl 38 Necro US East

"jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Damien Evans" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<c30ngj$226su2$[email hidden]>...

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> > > Get the Hardcore Physics Patch at > > > http://irlheat.bhmotorsports.com/TIR/ > > > > Yeah, though 'Hardcore' isn't a word I'd use to describe it... > > "Hardcore" is in the eye of the beholder, apparently. I'd say the > "Hardcore" physics patch basically does for TIR what the advanced > physics patch did for SCGT -- and it's certainly "hardcore" with > respect to the out-of-the-box physics values from Razorworks.

I thought the physics patch for SCGT made the lower-level cars skid around too much. I only used the slick grass bit.

On 14 Mar 2004 12:30:09 -0800, [email hidden] (jbodin) wrote: >"Hardcore" is in the eye of the beholder, apparently. I'd say the >"Hardcore" physics patch basically does for TIR what the advanced >physics patch did for SCGT -- and it's certainly "hardcore" with >respect to the out-of-the-box physics values from Razorworks. John, does your patch work with the demo? I bought the full version when it came out, but traded it for something else after pulling my hair out trying to fix the physics. Also, does your patch fix that weird auto-centering force that seems to keep the car from spinning no matter how you drive it? Jason

[email hidden] (Jason Moyer) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> On 14 Mar 2004 12:30:09 -0800, [email hidden] (jbodin) wrote: > > >"Hardcore" is in the eye of the beholder, apparently. I'd say the > >"Hardcore" physics patch basically does for TIR what the advanced > >physics patch did for SCGT -- and it's certainly "hardcore" with > >respect to the out-of-the-box physics values from Razorworks. > > John, does your patch work with the demo? > > I bought the full version when it came out, but traded it for > something else after pulling my hair out trying to fix the physics. > > Also, does your patch fix that weird auto-centering force that seems > to keep the car from spinning no matter how you drive it? > > Jason

Jason, There is an "Advanced Physics Patch" that's made specifically for the demo (the advanced patch features a bit more grip and a tad bit less realism than the "Hardcore Physics Patch). The "Hardcore" patch CAN be used with the demo, but it won't install to the correct directory on its own -- I'd recommend installing the demo, then installing the "Hardcore" patch to its default directory, and after that, just copy the entire directory structure (files and paths) over to your demo directory (overwriting all the old demo files with the "Hardcore" patch files). You can find all the patches here: http://irlheat.bhmotorsports.com/TIR/ Let me know what you think -- I believe the advanced AND hardcore physics both "fix" the steering issues you indicated. You WILL spin with the modified physics, and you will usually know WHY you're spinning, and what it was that YOU did to make a spin happen. GREAT physics, IMO -- TIR was HIGHLY under-rated by simmers in general. Overshadowed by the GTR mod for F12002, I suppose, but I'd rank TIR's physics right up there near the top -- in the same league as SCGT, Viper Racing, and NASCAR Heat, IMO. Your mileage may vary, of course, and opinions are like belly-buttons . . . ;-) Enjoy! -- JB

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> In article <a435c.12866$_w.297260@attbi_s53>, "Jay J" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Try practicing a few laps at each track with the race engineer function > >turned on, before you go to race there... > >The game will automatically start to improve the handling and grip of the > >car as you cut clean practice laps. > > Race engineer? Cool, I wish that was in N2k3 or F1 C. It would help us > mechanically-challenged types. > > Eldred > --

Yeah - cool, provided it improves the handling by fidling with the actual car setup, rather than just tweaking some internal grip parameters or something. Might be worth checking out if it works correctly. Kendt

[email hidden] (Kendt Eklund) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > In article <a435c.12866$_w.297260@attbi_s53>, "Jay J" > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Try practicing a few laps at each track with the race engineer function > > >turned on, before you go to race there... > > >The game will automatically start to improve the handling and grip of the > > >car as you cut clean practice laps. > > > > Race engineer? Cool, I wish that was in N2k3 or F1 C. It would help us > > mechanically-challenged types. > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Yeah - cool, provided it improves the handling by fidling with the > actual car setup, rather than just tweaking some internal grip > parameters or something. Might be worth checking out if it works > correctly. > > Kendt

It works -- the "race engineer" will actually dial in new setup parameters for you, and you can save or view the resultant setup parameters . . . no "behind-the-scenes" magic going on with the physics engine, grip parameters, etc.. This is relatively good stuff that everybody seemed to miss out on -- for a first-time shot at producing a driving sim, Razorworks did a damn fine job. I've said before that with the physics patches, it's a lot like SCGT2. Not as mod-able as the ISI sims in terms of adding cars and tracks, but the physics are VERY mod-able / tweakable (all the physics variables for the tracks and cars are as easily accessible as in an ISI sim). TIR also features some VERY nicely-implemented engine/environment sounds (you can make my sound patches work with the demo, and the patches definitely improve the tyre sounds). The in-car cockpit views are some of the best I've seen -- nice cockpit physics, combined with an unobstructed view of the road ahead . . . much less claustrophobic than NR2003, IMO. -- JB

"jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > [email hidden] (Kendt Eklund) wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>... > > [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>... > > > In article <a435c.12866$_w.297260@attbi_s53>, "Jay J" > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > >Try practicing a few laps at each track with the race engineerfunction > > > >turned on, before you go to race there... > > > >The game will automatically start to improve the handling and grip ofthe > > > >car as you cut clean practice laps. > > > > > > Race engineer? Cool, I wish that was in N2k3 or F1 C. It would helpus

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> > > mechanically-challenged types. > > > > > > Eldred > > > -- > > > > Yeah - cool, provided it improves the handling by fidling with the > > actual car setup, rather than just tweaking some internal grip > > parameters or something. Might be worth checking out if it works > > correctly. > > > > Kendt > > > It works -- the "race engineer" will actually dial in new setup > parameters for you, and you can save or view the resultant setup > parameters . . . no "behind-the-scenes" magic going on with the > physics engine, grip parameters, etc.. This is relatively good stuff > that everybody seemed to miss out on -- for a first-time shot at > producing a driving sim, Razorworks did a damn fine job. I've said > before that with the physics patches, it's a lot like SCGT2. Not as > mod-able as the ISI sims in terms of adding cars and tracks, but the > physics are VERY mod-able / tweakable (all the physics variables for > the tracks and cars are as easily accessible as in an ISI sim). TIR > also features some VERY nicely-implemented engine/environment sounds > (you can make my sound patches work with the demo, and the patches > definitely improve the tyre sounds). The in-car cockpit views are > some of the best I've seen -- nice cockpit physics, combined with an > unobstructed view of the road ahead . . . much less claustrophobic > than NR2003, IMO. > > -- JB

I agree it's a very fun game/sin! Wasn't this the original World Sportscar game that the West brothers were working on, and never seemed able to finish (sort of like Racing Legends, ha ha!)

"Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<%766c.30574$J05.202598@attbi_s01>...

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> "jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > [email hidden] (Kendt Eklund) wrote in message > news:<[email hidden]>... > > > [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in message > news:<[email hidden]>... > > > > In article <a435c.12866$_w.297260@attbi_s53>, "Jay J" > > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > > >Try practicing a few laps at each track with the race engineer > function > > > > >turned on, before you go to race there... > > > > >The game will automatically start to improve the handling and grip of > the > > > > >car as you cut clean practice laps. > > > > > > > > Race engineer? Cool, I wish that was in N2k3 or F1 C. It would help > us > > > > mechanically-challenged types. > > > > > > > > Eldred > > > > -- > > > > > > Yeah - cool, provided it improves the handling by fidling with the > > > actual car setup, rather than just tweaking some internal grip > > > parameters or something. Might be worth checking out if it works > > > correctly. > > > > > > Kendt > > > > > > It works -- the "race engineer" will actually dial in new setup > > parameters for you, and you can save or view the resultant setup > > parameters . . . no "behind-the-scenes" magic going on with the > > physics engine, grip parameters, etc.. This is relatively good stuff > > that everybody seemed to miss out on -- for a first-time shot at > > producing a driving sim, Razorworks did a damn fine job. I've said > > before that with the physics patches, it's a lot like SCGT2. Not as > > mod-able as the ISI sims in terms of adding cars and tracks, but the > > physics are VERY mod-able / tweakable (all the physics variables for > > the tracks and cars are as easily accessible as in an ISI sim). TIR > > also features some VERY nicely-implemented engine/environment sounds > > (you can make my sound patches work with the demo, and the patches > > definitely improve the tyre sounds). The in-car cockpit views are > > some of the best I've seen -- nice cockpit physics, combined with an > > unobstructed view of the road ahead . . . much less claustrophobic > > than NR2003, IMO. > > > > -- JB > > I agree it's a very fun game/sin! > Wasn't this the original World Sportscar game that the West brothers were > working on, and never seemed able to finish (sort of like Racing Legends, ha > ha!)

There's no connection between TIR and the West brothers' now-defunct World Sports Cars -- this myth began when Empire pulled the plug on the Wests and WSC. I'm fairly sure that Empire still wanted a sports car sim (perhaps they held the WSC licenses and wanted to use them?), so they tapped Razorworks to produce a sport car sim for them. If you look around, you will find that there are a lot of "WSC" references within the TIR files, and THIS is why TIR is rumored to be the resurrected remains of WSC, but this just isn't so. Here's my guess on the "WSC" references in the TIR code: Since TIR was created FROM SCRATCH by Razorworks (no connection at all to the work the Wests did on WSC -- I have had this fact confirmed by the Wests AND by folks at Razorworks), the "WSC references in TIR were probably put in place because Empire probably wanted to go ahead and use the "WSC" name on Razorworks' handiwork. I'm guessing that the ensuing broughaha in the sim racing world over the cancellation of WSC probably convinced Empire to just bury the WSC name, which in turn led to the Razorworks project being named "Total Immersion Racing, and NOT "World Sports Cars" or WSC. This represents a lot of speculation on my part, but as I said, I have heard firsthand from one of the Wests AND from folks at Razorworks, and they all concur that TIR contains no work done by the Wests, and that it is all the result of Razorworks efforts. Pretty good first effort, too. Hope this clears things up a bit! -- JB

[email hidden] (jbodin) wrote in news:72736af8.0403182217.1bc774f4 @posting.google.com: > This represents a lot of speculation on my part, but as I said, I have > heard firsthand from one of the Wests AND from folks at Razorworks, > and they all concur that TIR contains no work done by the Wests, and > that it is all the result of Razorworks efforts. > While TIR may not include any code from WSC, it certainly made use of licenses obtained by the West's team. If you look at the track set and the cars, you will see many of the same cars/tracks that were in the early publicity shots of WSC. I have NOT :) spoken to a Westie nor the Razorworks group, but I do have eyes...and these eyes see the GHOST of WSC in TIR. dave henrie

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> [email hidden] (jbodin) wrote in news:72736af8.0403182217.1bc774f4 > @posting.google.com: > > > This represents a lot of speculation on my part, but as I said, I have > > heard firsthand from one of the Wests AND from folks at Razorworks, > > and they all concur that TIR contains no work done by the Wests, and > > that it is all the result of Razorworks efforts. > > > > > While TIR may not include any code from WSC, it certainly made use of > licenses obtained by the West's team. If you look at the track set and > the cars, you will see many of the same cars/tracks that were in the early > publicity shots of WSC. I have NOT :) spoken to a Westie nor the > Razorworks group, but I do have eyes...and these eyes see the GHOST of WSC > in TIR. > > dave henrie

Well, yeah, sure -- the GHOST of WSC is DEFINITELY in there . . . which is why I had a soft spot for TIR from the beginning (that plus the fact that this is the closest thing to a modern retail version of SCGT2 or WSC that we've seen in a long time). ;-) I think you're right about the re-use of licenses by Empire, FWIW. Other than that, though, I don't think TIR uses any models (tracks OR cars) or any code from WSC -- TIR is all Razorworks' doing, and they did good, for the most part. If you haven't tried it yet, you should check out their latest effort, Ford Racing 2, which uses the physics engine from TIR. LOTS of fun, in an NFSPU kind of way (only with Fords). MUCH better than the original Ford Racing game (no comparison, actually). -- JCB