NASCAR sim article in Boston Globe

Thanks for the help, everybody. Here's the article, which ran today. http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_up_the_nascar_simulations/ Hiawatha Bray Technology Reporter Boston Globe P.O. Box 2378 135 Morrissey Blvd. Boston, MA 02107 USA 617-929-3119 voice 617-929-3183 fax [email hidden] [email hidden] Blog: www.monitortan.com Recent writings: www.boston.com/business/technology/bray/

"Hiawatha Bray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Thanks for the help, everybody. Here's the article, which ran today. > >http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_up_the_n ascar_simulations/ Pretty good shot at EA.and NASCAR :) MadDAWG

-- Remove nospam@ from email to reply. "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:402a7180$[email hidden]... > > "Hiawatha Bray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Thanks for the help, everybody. Here's the article, which ran today. > > > > > http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_up_the_n > ascar_simulations/ > > > Pretty good shot at EA.and NASCAR :) > > MadDAWG > > Yeah, it's water under the bridge at this point, but I think it represents how a lot of Papyrus fans felt when NASCAR made the deal with the devil for their gaming rights. Problem isd, most of us like a more simulator type experience and EA's attempts to date, I can say with fair certainty, have been purely games. Made for consoles and the PC version appears to be an afterthought. You catch Jerry Nadeau on Wind Tunnel last night? He's racing NR2003 online with Junior and friends. Has a 2 person race simulator/station built *in his shop*(he said) to run it and it showed Jerry and TJ Majors racing on it during the interview with Despain. Can't say that I've ever run with Jerry, but I have come up against TJ, Martin and Dale Jr online before. If Jerry is racing those guys, he is facing some stout competition as they're very good. It about tore my heart out when he went into having to sell his house on Lake Norman and other lifestyle changes he's having to make since pretty much losing his income...and based on his speaking and thinking skills exhibited last night, I can see why he's not yet back in the car. He's being very smart in staying out until he knows he's ready IMO. Good luck Jerry. I hope you make that full recovery and can strap the HANS and helmet on again sometime soon.

(blush!) "Hiawatha Bray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Thanks for the help, everybody. Here's the article, which ran today. > >http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_up_the_nascar_simulations/

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> > Hiawatha Bray > Technology Reporter > Boston Globe > P.O. Box 2378 > 135 Morrissey Blvd. > Boston, MA 02107 USA > 617-929-3119 voice > 617-929-3183 fax > [email hidden] > [email hidden] > Blog: www.monitortan.com > Recent writings: www.boston.com/business/technology/bray/

(blush!) http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_u...

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> Hiawatha Bray > Technology Reporter > Boston Globe > P.O. Box 2378 > 135 Morrissey Blvd. > Boston, MA 02107 USA > 617-929-3119 voice > 617-929-3183 fax > Blog: www.monitortan.com > Recent writings: www.boston.com/business/technology/bray/

Hiawatha Bray wrote: > ...Here's the article, which ran today... Good article, thanks for writing it and for letting us know! Achim

ditto. That was almost enough to actually make me take notice of what's generally written in newspapers. :) "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c0ebqr$sc0rc$[email hidden]... > Hiawatha Bray wrote: > > ...Here's the article, which ran today... > > Good article, thanks for writing it and for letting us know! > > Achim

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:402a7180$[email hidden]...

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> > "Hiawatha Bray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Thanks for the help, everybody. Here's the article, which ran today. > > > > >

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_up_the_n

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> ascar_simulations/ > > > Pretty good shot at EA.and NASCAR :) > > MadDAWG > >

Yeah, it was a pretty good shot and much deserved might I add. I liked Al Beasley's comment on Nascar Thunder 2003, "I installed it on my computer, and after a couple of hours I uninstalled it from my computer and threw it in the garbage," he said. "It was the worst I'd ever seen." I did the same thing Al! Shock

"Shock" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> > "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:402a7180$[email hidden]... >> >> "Hiawatha Bray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> > Thanks for the help, everybody. Here's the article, which ran >> > today. >> > >> > >> > http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_up

_

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> the_n >> ascar_simulations/ >> >> >> Pretty good shot at EA.and NASCAR :) >> >> MadDAWG >> >> > > Yeah, it was a pretty good shot and much deserved might I add. I > liked Al Beasley's comment on Nascar Thunder 2003, "I installed it on > my computer, and after a couple of hours I uninstalled it from my > computer and threw it in the garbage," he said. "It was the worst I'd > ever seen." I did the same thing Al! > > Shock > >

Been there, only it was NASCAR Revolution... what a piece o' shite!

"Ms.Goodwrench" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Shock" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > > > "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:402a7180$[email hidden]... > >> > >> "Hiawatha Bray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> news:[email hidden]... > >> > Thanks for the help, everybody. Here's the article, which ran > >> > today. > >> > > >> > > >> > > http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_up > _ > > the_n > >> ascar_simulations/ > >> > >> > >> Pretty good shot at EA.and NASCAR :) > >> > >> MadDAWG > >> > >> > > > > Yeah, it was a pretty good shot and much deserved might I add. I > > liked Al Beasley's comment on Nascar Thunder 2003, "I installed it on > > my computer, and after a couple of hours I uninstalled it from my > > computer and threw it in the garbage," he said. "It was the worst I'd > > ever seen." I did the same thing Al! > > > > Shock > > > > > > > > Been there, only it was NASCAR Revolution... what a piece o' shite! > >

I really wish some independent group would make a 2004 mod for NR2003. They could incorporate most of the stuff that Papyrus was going to put in NR2004 and release it just like a BGN or GDS mod and wham-o we would have NR2004, albeit a little short on some features, but oh well, it would still be better than anything released by EA. Shock

"Shock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > "Ms.Goodwrench" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Shock" <[email hidden]> wrote in > ><SNIP> > > I really wish some independent group would make a 2004 mod for NR2003.They > could incorporate most of the stuff that Papyrus was going to put inNR2004

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> and release it just like a BGN or GDS mod and wham-o we would have NR2004, > albeit a little short on some features, but oh well, it would still be > better than anything released by EA. > > Shock > >

You have been here, right Shock? www.projectwildfire.com Them and the US PITS and various other mod sites are going to be modding this sim for a while and is as close as we're going to get to any other release with EA during their thing now...doubt there will be a ton of upgrade to the physics, but everything else is being done, NBS, CTS, road racing physics mod, carsets, tracks, and other mods...

Excellent article. Thank you. Regards, Mr. Sylvestre

> Been there, only it was NASCAR Revolution... what a piece o' shite! that was freaking terrible. MadDAWG

"SimRacer" <nospam@[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TANWb.4199$[email hidden]...

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> > > "Shock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > "Ms.Goodwrench" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > "Shock" <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > <SNIP> > > > > I really wish some independent group would make a 2004 mod for NR2003. > They > > could incorporate most of the stuff that Papyrus was going to put in > NR2004 > > and release it just like a BGN or GDS mod and wham-o we would have

NR2004,

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> > albeit a little short on some features, but oh well, it would still be > > better than anything released by EA. > > > > Shock > > > > > > You have been here, right Shock? > > www.projectwildfire.com > > Them and the US PITS and various other mod sites are going to be modding > this sim for a while and is as close as we're going to get to any other > release with EA during their thing now...doubt there will be a ton of > upgrade to the physics, but everything else is being done, NBS, CTS, road > racing physics mod, carsets, tracks, and other mods... > >

Oh yeah, been there a lot, but I never read anything about them updating the physics for the cup series part of the game. That is great, thanks for the info. Shock

> Been there, only it was NASCAR Revolution... what a piece o' shite! > >That was the worst EVER! Tim -- "You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do." Henry Ford

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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>> Been there, only it was NASCAR Revolution... what a piece o' shite! > > > that was freaking terrible. > > MadDAWG > >

I bought it because I'd seen a preview in PC Gamer magazine... the game hadn't been released yet. The graphics were just awesome at the time, if ya'll remember. Welp, I bought it the day it came out, and lo and behold, the new PC Gamer came in the mail and implored its readers not to buy the game under any circumstances! It was total crap!

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:05:25 -0500, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I liked it too :) > >I was suprised to hear the EA rep admit thier console game sucked :) I like the console version more than the PC version. Jason

I liked it too :) I was suprised to hear the EA rep admit thier console game sucked :) -Larry "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:402a7180$[email hidden]...

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> > "Hiawatha Bray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Thanks for the help, everybody. Here's the article, which ran today. > > > > >

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_up_the_n

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> ascar_simulations/ > > > Pretty good shot at EA.and NASCAR :) > > MadDAWG > >

I know Im asking the wrong guy but have you tried the Thunder 2004 Demo? I'm really suprised at how much fun dega is online. Theyve managed to solve most of the issue's with Papy's SS's. The draft feels much more realistic, in fact the whole experience feels pretty darn good. The track modeling seems spot on and makes me wonder how I could have ever thought Papy's dega was right. The sound isn't very good as it's hard to tell what each tire is doing and the largest online feild I saw was 16 (very little warp though) but the connection hiccupS when another driver joins seems to have been (nearly) fixed since F1C. All around worth a download. If nothing else see the future of what we're all going to be driving if we want to run a licensed version of Nascar racing on the PC. If 2005 can correct the few nagging issues we may have something to put NR2003 to rest. I'm ready for something new and in years past we would always have the "next" Papy version to hold us over but now that's not the case so get yourselves mentally prepared to move on, eventually :-) Mitch "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:X_gXb.35322$fZ6.6379@lakeread06...

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> I liked it too :) > > I was suprised to hear the EA rep admit thier console game sucked :) > > -Larry > > "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:402a7180$[email hidden]... > > > > "Hiawatha Bray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Thanks for the help, everybody. Here's the article, which ran today. > > > > > > > > >

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_up_the_n

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> > ascar_simulations/ > > > > > > Pretty good shot at EA.and NASCAR :) > > > > MadDAWG > > > > > >

I tried the demo. Didn't much care for it. New isn't a necessity for me. If the tried-and-true is still better, so be it :) -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XchXb.25018$[email hidden]... > I know Im asking the wrong guy but have you tried the Thunder 2004 Demo? > I'm really suprised at how much fun dega is online. Theyve managed tosolve > most of the issue's with Papy's SS's. The draft feels much morerealistic, > in fact the whole experience feels pretty darn good. The track modeling > seems spot on and makes me wonder how I could have ever thought Papy'sdega > was right. The sound isn't very good as it's hard to tell what each tireis

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> doing and the largest online feild I saw was 16 (very little warp though) > but the connection hiccupS when another driver joins seems to have been > (nearly) fixed since F1C. All around worth a download. If nothing else > see the future of what we're all going to be driving if we want to run a > licensed version of Nascar racing on the PC. If 2005 can correct the few > nagging issues we may have something to put NR2003 to rest. I'm ready for > something new and in years past we would always have the "next" Papy

version

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> to hold us over but now that's not the case so get yourselves mentally > prepared to move on, eventually :-) > > > Mitch > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:X_gXb.35322$fZ6.6379@lakeread06... > > I liked it too :) > > > > I was suprised to hear the EA rep admit thier console game sucked :) > > > > -Larry > > > > "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:402a7180$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Hiawatha Bray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Thanks for the help, everybody. Here's the article, which ran

today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/02/11/revving_up_the_n

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> > > ascar_simulations/ > > > > > > > > > Pretty good shot at EA.and NASCAR :) > > > > > > MadDAWG > > > > > > > > > > > >

Mitch A spoke: If nothing else see the future of what we're all going to be driving if we want to run a licensed version of Nascar racing on the PC. ------------------------ Why? Papy's Nascar can be updated to the newest cars and tracks, as well as the newest drivers. Papy has a better online code and I think the tracks look nicer. I see no reason to switch. -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League OAO CORS MARA TransAm RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 TransAm Rank ??

"Mitch_A" wrote:

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> If nothing else > see the future of what we're all going to be driving if we want to run a > licensed version of Nascar racing on the PC. If 2005 can correct the few > nagging issues we may have something to put NR2003 to rest. I'm ready for > something new and in years past we would always have the "next" Papy > version to hold us over but now that's not the case so get yourselves > mentally prepared to move on, eventually :-)

Road racers haven't had the luxury of the "next" Papy version for years now, so it seems a bit premature to be talking about putting NR2003 to rest. I don't believe there are many (if any) here who would spurn a better sim experience if it was really there. Most of us try anything that sounds like it might be half decent in the genres we prefer. Computer power, programming techniques, access to track and physics info all improve, so we *expect* continual development. However, marketing, licensing and commercial decisions regarding our niche area are the real restrictions. Such that the third party community are more likely to develop further IMHO. Hopefully we will have a games producer who develops hardcore racing sims in the future, but we will have to wait and see. The days of significant gains each year seem long gone. Cheers Tony

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:25:07 -0500, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I tried the demo. Didn't much care for it. > >New isn't a necessity for me. If the tried-and-true is still better, so be >it :) See also: Indycar 2. Jason

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:10:31 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I know Im asking the wrong guy but have you tried the Thunder 2004 Demo? >I'm really suprised at how much fun dega is online. Theyve managed to solve >most of the issue's with Papy's SS's. Since I just put together a new PC and traded my copy of NT2004 in months ago to get DX:IW, I'm going to go pick up a copy today (EA sports 2004 stuff is all $20 now) and give it another go. It's quite possible that having a top end system now will change my opinion of it, at least slightly (I say this because the difference in F1C going from 40fps to 100fps was huge - I'm starting to believe the people who say ISI's physics rate is tied to the speed of the graphic renderer). The road courses (which is where I spend most of my time) were still horribly done, but as I remember the ovals were pretty similar to Papy's (whereas in NT2003 Pocono was 5 lanes wide and felt like driving on the autobahn). I'm pretty sure, aside from the roadies, that the width/elevation issues were largely fixed from 2003-->2004. Jason

Nothing can be done about about NR2003 failings now. New tracks and prettier cars CANNOT fix NR2003's underlying physics code which is wrong and has been since N4. They coulda done it right for N3 but dumbed it down instead.. It's been massaged to the max from Papy and is acceptable by todays standards but will it be next year at this time? This is my point, "I" sure hope not for the simple fact that other than RASCAR I don't run NR2003 anymore and by this time next year I doubt Ill be running NR2003 at all. Just a quick test to check Papy's physics. Get into a car at ANY track and stomp on the gas. What happens in Papy Nx sims? Now what happens in RL when a 700HP motor on skinny tires carrying 3500lbs do? Think about this for a second using common sense and youll come to the same conclusion I did about Papy physics. Mitch "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YfpXb.233772$[email hidden]...

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> Mitch A spoke: > If nothing else > see the future of what we're all going to be driving if we want to run a > licensed version of Nascar racing on the PC. > ------------------------ > > Why? Papy's Nascar can be updated to the newest cars and tracks, as well

as

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> the newest drivers. Papy has a better online code and I think the tracks > look nicer. I see no reason to switch. > > > -- > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > Member: > Screamers Racing League > OAO > CORS > MARA TransAm > RASCAR > GPL Rank + 17.415 > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > TransAm Rank ?? > > > >

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:44:01 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Just a quick test to check Papy's physics. Get into a car at ANY track and >stomp on the gas. What happens in Papy Nx sims? Now what happens in RL >when a 700HP motor on skinny tires carrying 3500lbs do? They spin the tires. Which happens in N2003 unless you're using a restrictor plate which limits the horsepower to 350. Jason

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:48:24 GMT, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) wrote: >They spin the tires. Which happens in N2003 unless you're using a >restrictor plate which limits the horsepower to 350. Of course, in real life drivers aren't moving from a standstill without using a clutch, in which case you can spin the tires in any of the 4 cars in N2003 restrictor plate or not. I'm curious what you're basing this anomaly on tho. Wheelspin during pitstops? You realize in RL the driver is revving the engine with the gears disengaged when that happens, right? Jason

Look at the replies to my posts on this subject Tony. Papy fanboys are coming out of the woodwork with energizer batteries on their shoulder saying "I dare ya to knock it off" :-) If you were around when the GPL demo first arrived many many here said how bad it was also so I take what guys are saying with a grain of salt :-) The last sentence speaks volumes. Maybe thats why Im actively searching for alternatives. Mitch "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mZqXb.4141$[email hidden]... > "Mitch_A" wrote: > > > I don't believe there are many (if any) here who would spurn a better sim > experience if it was really there. Most of us try anything that soundslike > it might be half decent in the genres we prefer. Computer power,programming > techniques, access to track and physics info all improve, so we *expect* > continual development. However, marketing, licensing and commercial > decisions regarding our niche area are the real restrictions. Such thatthe > third party community are more likely to develop further IMHO. > > Hopefully we will have a games producer who develops hardcore racing simsin > the future, but we will have to wait and see. The days of significantgains

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> each year seem long gone. > > Cheers > Tony > > >

"Mitch_A" wrote: > Look at the replies to my posts on this subject Tony. Papy fanboys are > coming out of the woodwork with energizer batteries on their shouldersaying > "I dare ya to knock it off" :-) LOL > If you were around when the GPL demo first arrived many many here said how > bad it was also so I take what guys are saying with a grain of salt :-) Yes, I *was* around and it blew away the competition at the time (e.g. F1RS). It really did. The hindsight only came after the full release in terms of the setup which could not be changed. > The last sentence speaks volumes. Maybe thats why Im actively searchingfor > alternatives. I am sure we all want better sims. Lets hope so. Cheers Tony

I think my description isnt the best. When you stomp the gas it just doesnt feel right. Sluggish response kinda describes it maybe, Im not sure but it just isnt right. Too canned. Once the RPM gets up it feels ok. Thunder doesnt seem quite so limited by this problem. Getting out of your pit stall is much more of an adventure. Mitch "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:48:24 GMT, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) > wrote: > > >They spin the tires. Which happens in N2003 unless you're using a > >restrictor plate which limits the horsepower to 350. > > Of course, in real life drivers aren't moving from a standstill > without using a clutch, in which case you can spin the tires in any of > the 4 cars in N2003 restrictor plate or not. > > I'm curious what you're basing this anomaly on tho. Wheelspin during > pitstops? You realize in RL the driver is revving the engine with the > gears disengaged when that happens, right? > > Jason

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 03:30:49 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I think my description isnt the best. When you stomp the gas it just doesnt >feel right. Sluggish response kinda describes it maybe, Im not sure but it >just isnt right. Too canned. Once the RPM gets up it feels ok. Thunder >doesnt seem quite so limited by this problem. Getting out of your pit stall >is much more of an adventure. I wonder if has anything to do with the way each sim engages the auto-clutch. Would be something interesting to figure out. Jason

Thats definitely part of it. Once you get rolling though you still seem to have all around better throttle response. Reminds me more of GPL than any of the (Papy) Nx titles in this respect. Could this be a legacy of the dumbing down from the original N3 (which was shelved)? Maybe we should be comparing a timeline to help make my point. Don't quote me on the EA titles exact order (memory only) as I never owned any of em. N1 vs Revolution N2 vs Heat N3 vs Thunder03 N4 vs Thunder04 NR2002 vs NR2003 vs See the trend? Although Papy did give us the best racing sims of all time to date if you follow the trend and make the comparisons EA/ISI are surely on the right track if Thunder04 is any indication of things to come. I would much rather be talking about Papy's newest version that has all new physics/graphics and is the most realistic simulator ever. I've got over it :-) Mitch "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 03:30:49 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > I wonder if has anything to do with the way each sim engages the > auto-clutch. Would be something interesting to figure out. > > Jason

Frankly, I don't judge a sim overall by how it responds to cutting donuts in the pits (altho Motor City Online was pretty telling in this respect) but by how it feels on the track AT SPEED. "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:R%tXb.12637$[email hidden]... > Nothing can be done about about NR2003 failings now. New tracks and > prettier cars CANNOT fix NR2003's underlying physics code which is wrongand

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> has been since N4. They coulda done it right for N3 but dumbed it down > instead.. It's been massaged to the max from Papy and is acceptable by > todays standards but will it be next year at this time? This is my point, > "I" sure hope not for the simple fact that other than RASCAR I don't run > NR2003 anymore and by this time next year I doubt Ill be running NR2003 at > all. > > Just a quick test to check Papy's physics. Get into a car at ANY track

and > stomp on the gas. What happens in Papy Nx sims? Now what happens in RL > when a 700HP motor on skinny tires carrying 3500lbs do? Think about this > for a second using common sense and youll come to the same conclusion Idid

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> about Papy physics. > > > Mitch > > > "ZZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:YfpXb.233772$[email hidden]... > > Mitch A spoke: > > If nothing else > > see the future of what we're all going to be driving if we want to run a > > licensed version of Nascar racing on the PC. > > ------------------------ > > > > Why? Papy's Nascar can be updated to the newest cars and tracks, as well > as > > the newest drivers. Papy has a better online code and I think the tracks > > look nicer. I see no reason to switch. > > > > > > -- > > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > > > Member: > > Screamers Racing League > > OAO > > CORS > > MARA TransAm > > RASCAR > > GPL Rank + 17.415 > > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > > TransAm Rank ?? > > > > > > > > > >

Heat actually came out around N3 time. If it had decent mp/yellows, it would have blown N3 out of the water imo. It was better every way but that. Even Revolution had some minor ? things better, i.e., correctly configured pit roads, double file restarts, etc. something which took Papy years. Mitch_A <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xhFXb.12868$[email hidden]... > Thats definitely part of it. Once you get rolling though you still seemto > have all around better throttle response. Reminds me more of GPL than any > of the (Papy) Nx titles in this respect. Could this be a legacy of the > dumbing down from the original N3 (which was shelved)? > > Maybe we should be comparing a timeline to help make my point. Don'tquote

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> me on the EA titles exact order (memory only) as I never owned any of em. > > N1 vs Revolution > N2 vs Heat > N3 vs Thunder03 > N4 vs Thunder04 > NR2002 vs > NR2003 vs > > See the trend? Although Papy did give us the best racing sims of all time > to date if you follow the trend and make the comparisons EA/ISI are surely > on the right track if Thunder04 is any indication of things to come. > > I would much rather be talking about Papy's newest version that has all

new > physics/graphics and is the most realistic simulator ever. I've got overit

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> :-) > > Mitch > > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 03:30:49 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > I wonder if has anything to do with the way each sim engages the > > auto-clutch. Would be something interesting to figure out. > > > > Jason > >

Actually, I _think_ Heat came out well after N3. It came out in November, and NR4 came out in February. If I remember correctly. -Larry "JP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DiLXb.131$[email hidden]... > Heat actually came out around N3 time. If it had decent mp/yellows, it > would have blown N3 out of the water imo. It was better every way butthat. > Even Revolution had some minor ? things better, i.e., correctlyconfigured

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> pit roads, double file restarts, etc. something which took Papy years. > > > Mitch_A <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:xhFXb.12868$[email hidden]... > > Thats definitely part of it. Once you get rolling though you still seem > to > > have all around better throttle response. Reminds me more of GPL than

any > > of the (Papy) Nx titles in this respect. Could this be a legacy of the > > dumbing down from the original N3 (which was shelved)? > > > > Maybe we should be comparing a timeline to help make my point. Don't > quote > > me on the EA titles exact order (memory only) as I never owned any ofem.

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> > > > N1 vs Revolution > > N2 vs Heat > > N3 vs Thunder03 > > N4 vs Thunder04 > > NR2002 vs > > NR2003 vs > > > > See the trend? Although Papy did give us the best racing sims of all

time > > to date if you follow the trend and make the comparisons EA/ISI aresurely > > on the right track if Thunder04 is any indication of things to come. > > > > I would much rather be talking about Papy's newest version that has all > new > > physics/graphics and is the most realistic simulator ever. I've gotover

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> it > > :-) > > > > Mitch > > > > > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 03:30:49 GMT, "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I wonder if has anything to do with the way each sim engages the > > > auto-clutch. Would be something interesting to figure out. > > > > > > Jason > > > > > >

I think it's important to keep in mind that _if_ we had been running EA NR2004 yesterday, we would have had to turn people away. I am assuming online is still limited to 16 drivers. If it's not, forget this post. -Larry "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fhuXb.12640$[email hidden]... > Look at the replies to my posts on this subject Tony. Papy fanboys are > coming out of the woodwork with energizer batteries on their shouldersaying > "I dare ya to knock it off" :-) > > If you were around when the GPL demo first arrived many many here said how > bad it was also so I take what guys are saying with a grain of salt :-) > > The last sentence speaks volumes. Maybe thats why Im actively searchingfor

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> alternatives. > > Mitch > > > "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:mZqXb.4141$[email hidden]... > > "Mitch_A" wrote: > > > > > > I don't believe there are many (if any) here who would spurn a better

sim

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> > experience if it was really there. Most of us try anything that sounds > like > > it might be half decent in the genres we prefer. Computer power, > programming > > techniques, access to track and physics info all improve, so we *expect* > > continual development. However, marketing, licensing and commercial > > decisions regarding our niche area are the real restrictions. Such that > the > > third party community are more likely to develop further IMHO. > > > > Hopefully we will have a games producer who develops hardcore racing

sims

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> in > > the future, but we will have to wait and see. The days of significant > gains > > each year seem long gone. > > > > Cheers > > Tony > > > > > > > >