GPL - How to make a fast (clean) start ?

Hi, I have been playing GPL for probably 50 hours or so, but I have a problem starting the (offline) race - I have not tried online racing yet. First some background info: I am driving the Cooper (Coventry) car and using the setups from Alison's site. I usually drive at the Monza track, because I know it quite well now - especially the grass and the armco :-) On a good day, I qualify at 1.35.6 which put me in position 14 in a PRO short race. BTW, I am driving with no aids on - EXCEPT automatic shifting. Now to my problem - when the flag drops, my car is just glued to the track. I can't seem to get the car moving and quite soon my nice pos. 14 is becoming an ugly #20. I know that using the automatic shifting option is not helping me at the start, but untill I am more comfortable with the car, I don't want to concentrate on the gears... I would like to have a way to keep the revs up before tha flag drops, but with auto shifting the result is always a false start :-( Can anybody give me some tips to getting a better start ? Regards, Simon ( Who raced last night and was sure that Beltoise had a mission - "Stop Simon at all costs" :-)

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>BTW, I am driving with no aids on - EXCEPT automatic shifting. >Now to my problem - when the flag drops, my car is just glued to the track. >I can't seem to get the car moving and quite soon my nice pos. 14 is >becoming an ugly #20. I know that using the automatic shifting option is not >helping me at the start, but untill I am more comfortable with the car, I >don't want to concentrate on the gears... I would like to have a way to keep >the revs up before tha flag drops, but with auto shifting the result is >always a false start :-(

Hi -- Someone may have another solution, but I think the problem lies purely in driving automatic. If you've gotten good enough at Monza to get 14 on the grid, it's probably time to take a day off racing and practice shifting instead. Within an hour or two, you'll pick up another two or three places, I predict, just because shifting is so much more effective. And your starts will be much more effective (although certainly not easy ;-) ). Automatic is a nice learning tool, but you're ready to "take off the training wheels." Pinebox

Hi Simon, For any other sim that I know (and I know quite a few) 50 hours is immense. 50 hours spent with GPL still isn't much - to put it in other words, you've probably only just started to "dig" it. In my opinion it is a complete waste of time to "learn" GPL with driving aids. The only driving aid that lets you constantly improve and prepare for "the real thing" is to use the advanced trainer. Weird example: if you want to learn playing an instrument, you'll have to sing along from the very start or you'll have BIG difficulties to get used to singing AND playing at the same time. Pretty similar with GPL: the day will come that you'll HAVE to turn that auto-shifter off, and you'll be surprised or rather shocked how much different the car feels. Manual shifting greatly influences the car's physics as well - shifting up/down too early, too soon, overreving the engine...you better start to learn how to deal with this - the sooner, the better. consider it as a fact that you won't get good lap times and starts without manual shifting. Have you ever seen the german F1 driver M. Schumacher start? That man is absolutely ace! Well, he sure wouldn't be able to do this if he had auto-shifting... Now there's three ways to "do" it in GPL: 1- manual shifting, wheel button (or keyboard) as a clutch. Press the "clutch-button", hold it, get in gear. When the green flag is up, revs up to 60%, slowly (!!) rising towards 80-85%. With the green flag going down, let go of the clutch and SLIGHTLY lift your foot off the gas until the car starts to move. As soon as the car's building up speed, SLIGHTLY increase pressure on the gas. What ever you do, DON'T spin them rears! 2- manual shifting, no clutch. When the green flag is up, revs up to 60%, slowly (!!) rising towards 80-85%. With the green flag going down, punch in that first gear, SLIGHTLY lift your foot off the gas until the car starts to move. As soon as the car's building up speed, SLIGHTLY increase pressure on the gas. Again it is VERY important that the rear wheels don't spin when you get in gear. 3- manual shifting, ANALOG (pedal-) clutch (the way I do it). GPL lets us assign a third axis, so why not use it? All those having a T2 or a NASCAR PRO wheel can easily add a third pedal to the pedal base, and this really rules. BUT: unfortunately the simulation of an analog clutch is NOT that good in GPL, as the travel is VERY short. Or is this realistic? What I'm trying to say is that whe I started using the clutch-pedal I was very disappointed as I thought that the clutch was ON/OFF only. Using a button or the pedal didn't make any difference. But then I practiced and practiced and...tada! There WAS a difference. But as I said, the travel is VERY short. Here's a short replay that shows what can be done using an analog clutch...I wouldn' t wanna miss it, although I hated it in the beginning. [link lost in import: /***er/start.zip] Questions, comments, flames...go for it - I'd love to read how others master their starts! Mea***er

> Weird example: if you want >to learn playing an instrument, you'll have to sing along from the very >start or you'll have BIG difficulties to get used to singing AND playing at >the same time. So THATS why I could never sing along while I played saxaphone! No wonder! Pinebox

Wuaaaahahahaaa, LOL Gimme gimme gimme! KPinebox schrieb in Nachricht >> Weird example: if you want >>to learn playing an instrument, you'll have to sing along from the very >>start or you'll have BIG difficulties to get used to singing AND playing at >>the same time. >So THATS why I could never sing along while I played saxaphone! No wonder! >Pinebox

I used to be able to do this with my GP1 wheel and CH pedal setup, using the paddles on the wheel for a clutch lever. It worked great, especially if the rear of the car started to come around on me, I could just feather the clutch a bit without touching the brakes and the car would settle down enough that I could regain some sort of control. With my new wheel, I have to use one of the buttons on the wheel as the clutch and it's not as easy to control, still good for starts though. -don "To race is to live, everything else is just waiting." - Rudi Caracciola

>Weird example: if you want >to learn playing an instrument, you'll have to sing along from the very >start or you'll have BIG difficulties to get used to singing AND playing at >the same time. That was never a problem, even though I didn't start singing until MUCH later. I have, however, discovered that I can't sing and WRITE(or type) at the same time. I'm not sure why....<g> Eldred

>consider it as a fact that you won't get good lap times and starts without >manual shifting. Well, that's not what *I* wanted to hear... :( Even though I can 'get around' Monza with manual shifting, I can't IMAGINE trying to do Spa(or - GASP! - the 'Ring). Eldred

After I'd played the GPL demo for the first time I could't even imagine completing ONE darn lap without spinning. Now I'm doin' pretty good (still far from "good enough" though). Give yourself a chance, you'll be amazed. Mea***er

I found out that if u jump the gun just slightly, maybe a half a second with auto shifting u get a descent start. When i first started driving GPL i used auto-shift and found this out, after numerous attempts and a few black flags i might add. But it does hurt u immensly at the start. I used to lose 2-3 positons now i gain 2-3. Hope thois helps. BTW- The 'Ring with manual shift?!?!?! I can BARELY complete a warm-up lap with auto!!!!

Well, I must join the opinion: My best time in the only track I know somehow (Monza) was 1:36.??, and as soon as I turned to manual shifting, the best went to 1:33.??. I just got more means of controlling the car... (I drive fastest with the Lotus, ... I know I should be ashamed...) Arto

Try getting used to the manual gears. When I finally changed, it actually got easier to drive within about 30mins - being able to use the gears to help in braking makes it MUCH easier! AFAIK it is impossible to avoid bogging down at the start unless you turn off the auto gearchange. Good luck! Cheers Alan

I've never been able to time it right(jump start). I also think I've only done about 4-5 full laps at the 'Ring'. I have PlENTY of: spin-crash-spin-spin-crash-SCREW THIS! next track... :) Eldred

writes: You gained THREE seconds?!? Hmm..I'm at 1:32.xx NOW...Maybe I can beat that accursed Clark *after* all...<g> Eldred

Ha Ha Ha. Thats how i am sometimes at the Ring. But today i made progress im in the 10 minute bracket!!! My previous best was 11-something. So all in all i think i hit shift-R maybe 3 times as opposed to 5.

I accidentally tried auto-shift yesterday while creating another driver for messing about in other cars. I was amazed at how poorly the car performed compared to manual shift, and I think starting from the grid's probably the worst example of this. As it happens I was also playing with the Coventry (incredibly stable at Zandvoort) and it's quite a friendly car, so I'd seriously suggest biting the bullet and losing all the aids. It might be scary at first, but it's worth it for the sheer thrill of being in total control of your own (sim) destiny. That sounds a bit pompous, but it's true :-) Andrew McP

> Have you ever seen the german F1 driver M. Schumacher start? That man is > absolutely ace! Well, he sure wouldn't be able to do this if he had > auto-shifting... I'm not sure I'd pick the man that lost the world championship title in part because of a lousy start as an example. This is the way I do it (manual shifting, button clutch). However, I start by keeping the throttle at about 85-90% (even before the flag goes up), then as the flag comes down, drop the clutch and push the pedal even further to keep the engine going (a little wheelspin sometimes occurs). Due to my usually sad performance in qualifying, I'm somewhere around 10th-15th place in the start, and my start is much faster that the computer cars in front of me. My only online-start so far was a warp-fest, from which I emerged (Ithink) in a better position that I started from. -- Anssi Lehtinen

Keep at it - I think the Ring is one of the most satisfying tracks to master, I managed to win against the AI in a 2 lap race for the first time on Monday. I don't think I'd be able to manage more than 2 laps though, its mentally very taxing - you feel shattered after 2 max effort laps. - Michael

After driving at the Ring for three days, Mosport is a piece of cake...yeah, even that darn left-hander is tamed... Michael schrieb in Nachricht

switch to manual shift for two reasons, starts, laps. for starts set up a key on the keyboard for the clutch, click into first gear and wait until the green flag comes up, hold the clutch in and start revving the engine to 70-80% when the flag drops you drop the clutch, feather the throttle so the engine stays in a good powerband, don't let the engine bog down and don't let the wheels spin out of control, it will take a little practice ( this is GPL ) but you should be able to beat just about everybody, in midpack starts I can beat all but a few cars into turn one, from the front row it's a drag race. also when driving laps you will be able to change the gear ratios to be able to judge your speed into turns more consistently, change third so it tops out in between the first and second lesmos pulls well out of the lesmos and for example. JM 1:28:92 monza in a gurney

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> Hi, > I have been playing GPL for probably 50 hours or so, but I have a problem > starting the (offline) race - I have not tried online racing yet. > First some background info: > I am driving the Cooper (Coventry) car and using the setups from Alison's > site. > I usually drive at the Monza track, because I know it quite well now - > especially the grass and the armco :-) > On a good day, I qualify at 1.35.6 which put me in position 14 in a PRO > short race. > BTW, I am driving with no aids on - EXCEPT automatic shifting. > Now to my problem - when the flag drops, my car is just glued to the track. > I can't seem to get the car moving and quite soon my nice pos. 14 is > becoming an ugly #20. I know that using the automatic shifting option is not > helping me at the start, but untill I am more comfortable with the car, I > don't want to concentrate on the gears... I would like to have a way to keep > the revs up before tha flag drops, but with auto shifting the result is > always a false start :-( > Can anybody give me some tips to getting a better start ? > Regards, > Simon > ( Who raced last night and was sure that Beltoise had a mission - "Stop > Simon at all costs" :-)

>3- manual shifting, ANALOG (pedal-) clutch (the way I do it). GPL lets us >assign a third axis, so why not use it? All those having a T2 or a NASCAR >PRO wheel can easily add a third pedal to the pedal base, and this really >rules. Are there instructions somewhere on the web how to build a third pedal?

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>> I know that using the automatic shifting option is not >> helping me at the start, >I accidentally tried auto-shift yesterday while creating another driver for >messing about >in other cars. I was amazed at how poorly the car performed compared to >manual >shift, and I think starting from the grid's probably the worst example of >this. >As it happens I was also playing with the Coventry (incredibly stable at >Zandvoort) and >it's quite a friendly car, so I'd seriously suggest biting the bullet and >losing all the aids. >It might be scary at first, but it's worth it for the sheer thrill of being >in total control of >your own (sim) destiny. >That sounds a bit pompous, but it's true :-) >Andrew McP

Well, I tried another race at Monza, with manual shifting. I ran about 28-30 laps in training mode, to practice shifting. I qualified in 2nd (1:31.99, I think), lost a spot on the start, and was back in 1st by Curva Grande. I beat Jochen Rindt by 3.xx seconds in a 6-lap race. In looking at the race lap times, I realized that my fastest was a personal record by almost .5 sec (1:31.66 to 1:31.19). I was SHOCKED to realize that THREE out of my last FOUR laps beat my previous record! All four were in the 1:31.xx range... Maybe there IS something to this manual shifting.... Although, now it screws up my braking. I can't hear the tires locking up, or I don't brake ENOUGH. By the time I REALIZE that, I'm too deep in the corner... :( In OTHER words, I still have a long way to go... Eldred(who STILL can't imagine Spa...)

Adding an analog clutch to GPL is awesome! I could set up a homepage with a simple instruction how to do this (on the basis of a NASCAR PRO wheel), but I'm not sure how many of you would actually be interested. That page would also include a section with tips on the new (and improved) driving techniques that lay open once you got used to the "third pedal". I don't have Viper Racing, but I believe that sim supports an analog clutch as well. So - would you like me to do this (it would take me a week to do it properly, though)? Here's a short GPL replay showing a start at Mosport and the great advantage an anaolg clutch offers: [link lost in import: /***er/start.zip] Mea***er >>3- manual shifting, ANALOG (pedal-) clutch (the way I do it). GPL lets us >>assign a third axis, so why not use it? All those having a T2 or a NASCAR >>PRO wheel can easily add a third pedal to the pedal base, and this really >>rules. >Are there instructions somewhere on the web how to build a third pedal?

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> Well, I tried another race at Monza, with manual shifting. I ran about 28-30 > laps in training mode, to practice shifting. I qualified in 2nd (1:31.99, I > think), lost a spot on the start, and was back in 1st by Curva Grande. I beat > Jochen Rindt by 3.xx seconds in a 6-lap race. In looking at the race lap > times, I realized that my fastest was a personal record by almost .5 sec > (1:31.66 to 1:31.19). I was SHOCKED to realize that THREE out of my last FOUR > laps beat my previous record! All four were in the 1:31.xx range... Maybe > there IS something to this manual shifting.... > Although, now it screws up my braking. I can't hear the tires locking up, or I > don't brake ENOUGH. By the time I REALIZE that, I'm too deep in the corner... > :( In OTHER words, I still have a long way to go... > Eldred(who STILL can't imagine Spa...)

There's less braking at Spa....it requires a lot better car control though. ;-)

Stick with it guys, the Ring is daunting at first, but after several laps you begin to actually remember SOME of the really treacherous corners that surprise you and then you begin to piece it all together. I've probably done 20+ laps around the place, and I've finally broken into the 8 minute XX seconds range (as in XX=50+ secs). I rarely did more than 2 laps at a time and usually flipped the car several times at first. I still crash there sometimes, but it is a wonderful track once you become vaguely familiar with its layout. Paul

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> >I also think I've only done > >about 4-5 full laps at the 'Ring'. I have PlENTY of: > >spin-crash-spin-spin-crash-SCREW THIS! > >next track... :) > Ha Ha Ha. Thats how i am sometimes at the Ring. But today i made > progress im > in the 10 minute bracket!!! My previous best was 11-something. So > all in all > i think i hit shift-R maybe 3 times as opposed to 5.