Help with GPL and the Glen

I have been playing this game for about 2 weeks now, although it is frustrating at times it has been the only driving game (or any game for that matter) that has held my attention for more than a couple of days... I have been exclusively racing at Watkins Glen with different cars, Lotus and Ferrari mostly. Recently I switched my settings to all help off and advanced trainer (basically the most realistic settings). And I am having many problems controlling the cars now, especially braking with braking help turned off (keep locking those brakes). I am sure that I will get used to it eventually but there is one part of the course that I just cannot figure out. The area between the speed trap and the big bend. I am usually in 4th gear when heading into the speed trap. As I shift down to 3rd and brake the car _always_ loses control and the rear end slides out (or just gets squirly) and hits the guardrail on the left side just before the "Big bend" turn. I almost always spin or have to make corrections from the grass. Any suggestions are welcome.. I really don't want to turn any of the driving aids back on though. My setup is as follows: MS Sidewinder FF Wheel, setup to accelerate and brake on sep. axis. Diamond V550 TNT P2 450 128mb ram etc etc. Before this wheel I had the new TM force, although I liked it at first it is a piece of... how should I put this... crap!

David, your post caught my eye. I too had Athrustmaster control. Yesterday I recieved my MSFF wheel. I can turn 106's at the Glen., with my T2. Now I can't do shit. My T2 had throttle and accelerator set at 40% and 30% - thats gives a lag time when accelerating and braking. The MSFF is very much more sensitive. I would suggest trying to apply brakes and acceleration in smaller increments. Know that this sounds like a big task but I feel this wheel is much better and it will be a feel thing . Stick with it. Tony

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> I have been playing this game for about 2 weeks now, although it is > frustrating at times it has been the only driving game (or any game for that > matter) that has held my attention for more than a couple of days... > I have been exclusively racing at Watkins Glen with different cars, Lotus > and Ferrari mostly. Recently I switched my settings to all help off and > advanced trainer (basically the most realistic settings). And I am having > many problems controlling the cars now, especially braking with braking help > turned off (keep locking those brakes). I am sure that I will get used to > it eventually but there is one part of the course that I just cannot figure > out. The area between the speed trap and the big bend. > I am usually in 4th gear when heading into the speed trap. As I shift down > to 3rd and brake the car _always_ loses control and the rear end slides out > (or just gets squirly) and hits the guardrail on the left side just before > the "Big bend" turn. I almost always spin or have to make corrections from > the grass. > Any suggestions are welcome.. I really don't want to turn any of the > driving aids back on though. > My setup is as follows: > MS Sidewinder FF Wheel, setup to accelerate and brake on sep. axis. > Diamond V550 TNT > P2 450 > 128mb ram > etc etc. > Before this wheel I had the new TM force, although I liked it at first it is > a piece of... how should I put this... crap!

I think my problem is playing too many arcade racers and not enough sims. With arcade racers you can floor it and the consequences are few. With GPL I have a feeling that these cars would react the same way in real life with no finesse. (i.e. pedal to the metal, or in this case plastic). There is a Sidewinder control panel with which you can configure your range of motion for the pedals. I am going to mess around with this tonight, sounds like this would be just the thing to ease your transition. BTW let me stress that IMHO I thought that the TM force wheel was junk. The wheel had this chinzy feel to it. I thought something was loose inside. Strangely enough I felt that I had better control with the TM product. I think that after tinkering a bit I will get back to that level. The pedals however I prefer over the MS ones. But hey can get everything. >David, your post caught my eye. >I too had Athrustmaster control. Yesterday I recieved my MSFF wheel. >I can turn 106's at the Glen., with my T2. >Now I can't do shit. >My T2 had throttle and accelerator set at 40% and 30% - thats gives a lag time >when accelerating and braking. >The MSFF is very much more sensitive. >I would suggest trying to apply brakes and acceleration in smaller increments. >Know that this sounds like a big task but I feel this wheel is much better and

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>it will be a feel thing . >Stick with it. >Tony >> I have been playing this game for about 2 weeks now, although it is >> frustrating at times it has been the only driving game (or any game for

that >> matter) that has held my attention for more than a couple of days... >> I have been exclusively racing at Watkins Glen with different cars, Lotus >> and Ferrari mostly. Recently I switched my settings to all help off and >> advanced trainer (basically the most realistic settings). And I am having >> many problems controlling the cars now, especially braking with braking help >> turned off (keep locking those brakes). I am sure that I will get used to >> it eventually but there is one part of the course that I just cannot figure >> out. The area between the speed trap and the big bend. >> I am usually in 4th gear when heading into the speed trap. As I shift down >> to 3rd and brake the car _always_ loses control and the rear end slides out >> (or just gets squirly) and hits the guardrail on the left side just before >> the "Big bend" turn. I almost always spin or have to make corrections from

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>> the grass. >> Any suggestions are welcome.. I really don't want to turn any of the >> driving aids back on though. >> My setup is as follows: >> MS Sidewinder FF Wheel, setup to accelerate and brake on sep. axis. >> Diamond V550 TNT >> P2 450 >> 128mb ram >> etc etc. >> Before this wheel I had the new TM force, although I liked it at first it

is >> a piece of... how should I put this... crap!

Could be alot of things, but here's a couple ideas; - Nice and easy when depressing the brake. Pounding on it is a big fat no-no. - Your front end may be bottoming out under braking. Try raisin' yer front ride height. - Switch to Monza. The Glen is a VERY tricky track. Monza first, then mebbe Spa. S.C. "Gritz" Petty Spectre Racing http://members.xoom.com/Gritz/Spectre/spectreracing.htm >I think my problem is playing too many arcade racers and not enough sims. >With arcade racers you can floor it and the consequences are few. With GPL >I have a feeling that these cars would react the same way in real life with >no finesse. (i.e. pedal to the metal, or in this case plastic).

Hi Tony I use the MSFF wheel too, stick with it, it's one of the better wheels out there I've got 2 other wheels gathering dust to prove it <g> a TM one and the F1sim wheel. I had a problem getting used to the MSFF wheel too, hang in there. Andy. -- Andrew Thatcher www.f1onehitwonders.ndirect.co.uk

I agree it just takes time to get used to the wheel the brakes a very sensitive and it took me a good couple of weeks to get the feel of it. My dad just picked up the MS FF wheel and is going through the same learning curve I did with it. He was going to give up on it but knew that I had masterd it and that it just takes time to get used to the pedals. That and he sees me pull 1:29's at Monza with the wheel! >David, your post caught my eye. >I too had Athrustmaster control. Yesterday I recieved my MSFF wheel. >I can turn 106's at the Glen., with my T2. >Now I can't do shit. >My T2 had throttle and accelerator set at 40% and 30% - thats gives a lag time >when accelerating and braking. >The MSFF is very much more sensitive. >I would suggest trying to apply brakes and acceleration in smaller increments. >Know that this sounds like a big task but I feel this wheel is much better and

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>it will be a feel thing . >Stick with it. >Tony >> I have been playing this game for about 2 weeks now, although it is >> frustrating at times it has been the only driving game (or any game for

that >> matter) that has held my attention for more than a couple of days... >> I have been exclusively racing at Watkins Glen with different cars, Lotus >> and Ferrari mostly. Recently I switched my settings to all help off and >> advanced trainer (basically the most realistic settings). And I am having >> many problems controlling the cars now, especially braking with braking help >> turned off (keep locking those brakes). I am sure that I will get used to >> it eventually but there is one part of the course that I just cannot figure >> out. The area between the speed trap and the big bend. >> I am usually in 4th gear when heading into the speed trap. As I shift down >> to 3rd and brake the car _always_ loses control and the rear end slides out >> (or just gets squirly) and hits the guardrail on the left side just before >> the "Big bend" turn. I almost always spin or have to make corrections from

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>> the grass. >> Any suggestions are welcome.. I really don't want to turn any of the >> driving aids back on though. >> My setup is as follows: >> MS Sidewinder FF Wheel, setup to accelerate and brake on sep. axis. >> Diamond V550 TNT >> P2 450 >> 128mb ram >> etc etc. >> Before this wheel I had the new TM force, although I liked it at first it

is >> a piece of... how should I put this... crap!

David... Specific points about your problems at the Glen: Speed Trap is a flat-out 5th gear turn. If you come off The Loop at a pretty good clip and accelerate hard through the gears down the back straight you'll hit 5th well before Speed Trap. If you're doing this going into Speed Trap, it's unnecessary and may be part of you problem, if you're destabilizing your car and consequently forcing yourself off line through a turn that has a very well-defined line. Noticed you said that you had a TNT card. I seem to recall that even the OpenGL driver may not support the "line" graphics. So in case you're not aware, you need the be hugging the left-hand barrier going into and through Speed Trap. (If you don't have the OpenGL driver, it'll make GPL much easier. I think it's still can be found at www.papy.com . A 3Dfx card will help even more.) Stay away from the "marbles" on the outside of Speed Trap. When I discovered that I could carry top gear full-throttle though Speed Trap I instantly gained 2-3 seconds per lap, it seems. Approaching Big Bend there are some ridges in the roadway that make it especially important that your car be stabilized before you begin you heavy braking for Big Bend. As your car comes off of Speed Trap, your rhs springs are compressed. Give the car a moment to stabilize (i.e. flatten-out) before getting *** the brakes. You'll spend less time polishing the barriers and your braking for Big Bend will be much more effective. It's much better to brake a little early for Big Bend than too late, so that you're not wasting a lot of time in the marbles (or grass!) on the outside of Big Bend and are not off line for the left before the 90. Use the sign on the rhs before Big Bend as a reference point...as you learn to carry speed through Speed Trap, don't start your braking as late as the sign, just use it as a reference. Allow your braking point to move closer and closer as you get more and more comfortable. Finally, listen for tire squeal and smoke under braking. If you're locking your wheels, you're not braking as effectively as you should. Remember, a locked wheel: 1) has no directional stability (i.e. it produces little to no lateral force for cornering), and 2) provides LESS braking force than a rotating wheel at the limit of adhesion. Study "Four Wheel Drift" by Steve Smith that came with GPL. It'll help a bunch. Good luck and keep at it!

>I have been playing this game for about 2 weeks now, ......<snipped> .........but there is one part of the course that I just cannot figure You may want to try going into the speed trap in 5th gear , then when you have completely straightened the car up, about 1/3rd of the way along the straight, start braking to reduce speed for the corner, when you are about 2/3rd's of the way along the straight start shifting down to 3rd or 2nd for the big bend, but try to do the braking and gearchanging while travelling in a straight line.When you have slowed and are entering the bend then gently start accelerating just a bit to balance the car through the corner. I think that by changing into 3rd before braking you are locking up the rear wheels , which is what is causing the car to spin. The best method for driving any car in GPL is to be smooth and keep revs low when slowing down and changing gear, at least while learning the tracks. Also the entry to the speed trap is important , Start from on the right along the straight and turn in quite late to try and keep to the barrier on the left as you go around because you want to exit on the left if possible to be on the correct line for the big bend. Are you getting a good frame rate? Less than 25 -30 fps can also cause problems controlling the car. Ian Parker [ Finally into the 1;05's :-)) ]

Hi Andrew, I use F1sim wheel and i can't get better than 1'08 at Glen Do you see diferences in lap times between the wheels? thanks kostis >Hi Tony > I use the MSFF wheel too, stick with it, it's one of the better >wheels out there I've got 2 other wheels gathering dust to prove it <g> a TM >one and the F1sim wheel. I had a problem getting used to the MSFF wheel too,

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>hang in there. >Andy. >-- >Andrew Thatcher >www.f1onehitwonders.ndirect.co.uk

Hi Kostis Yep its the Brake and Throttle that are the main things, I hated the F1 sims they were just buttons, really bad. when I first used the MSFF it felt like I had a bad understeer when going round corners which I never had with the F1sim, I think its something to do with the "Direct input" and "Generic" settings. But I learned to drive round it and my lap times came down. the lap times for the F1sim are about 2 secs slower than the MSFF, and I think that's down the lack of feel with the F1sims Brake and Throttle. Andy. -- Andrew Thatcher www.f1onehitwonders.ndirect.co.uk

Ah, I think you're talking about the "economy version"...that's the one with the *** little plastic pedals. The full setup has very good (IMO) all metal pedals, the only problem being the lack of separate brake/throttle axes (except on early batches). I had a play with an MSFF setup and thought the wheel itself was...well... 'orrible :-) Never got as far as the pedals because I just couldn't find a comfortable grip that allowed me to use the short gear change wossits behind the wheel. Andrew McP

cool I guess Im 1 of the lucky ones that had the pedals with separate axis, and they are very good. Big metal things with 5-6" springs. The wheel has a bad design flaw in that the wheel is fixed to the potentiometer by a piece of *** which tends to slip (which can easily be fixed) but even when this *** is fixed well, it still has too much movement in it and doesn't return to the exact centre position each time. But mine is now solid as a rock now that I have used the inner stem of a Thrustmaster T2 machined down to size and screwed in place in the steering column, and using the potentiometers for the T2. And now my times are beginning to tumble in GPL :-) -- Vince Fisher