Sports Car GT

EA has finally put up an official Sports Car GT page at [link lost in import] Art Stealth Racing http://www.***sys.com/stealthracing.html

Thanks Arthur, this sim looks very promising. I saw a program on my telly the other night that telled some of the history behind the Callaway, so now I want to drive them too :o). /Christer > EA has finally put up an official Sports Car GT page at > [link lost in import] > Art > Stealth Racing > http://www.***sys.com/stealthracing.html -- [link lost in import: /~w-41236/] (Read all about the "Global online racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)). If there's a six in my email replace it with the digit instead.

Hmmm... is it just me or is it a game-ish odor from SCGT?? Dont look much like a sim. to me. A real real shame imho... But I ******hope****** I'm wrong. -- All the best, Edwin Solheim **remove spamguard in address to reply** Drop by "The Paddock - a legendary site....." for some cool GPL stuff! http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock

EA has their website up http://www.sportscargt.com/ And a site for the real thing http://www.professionalsportscar.com/ Should be fun, I wonder if it will give GPL a run for the money? JM

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> >Thanks Arthur, this sim looks very promising. > Hmmm... is it just me or is it a game-ish odor from SCGT?? > Dont look much like a sim. to me. > A real real shame imho... > But I ******hope****** I'm wrong. > -- > All the best, > Edwin Solheim **remove spamguard in address to reply** > Drop by "The Paddock - a legendary site....." for some cool GPL stuff! > http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock

Game-ish? I don't know yet, but the cars look great (no to mention the track, the wet weather effect, the night effect,...). It's really nice to have that kind of simulation coming out. It's sure is a change from F1 and stock cars. Endurance racing at it's best. Just want to put my hand on the demo. Also, I wonder what resolution was used to take the pictures. The screenshots were pretty crisp! Philster

Is GPL a sim? I ran a mock season accelerated time and the Loti killed both Brabham's have just maybe 1 more DNF per car...that ain't a simulation of a season. Exhibit B...Kyalami and Spa; how in the world can I lap faster than Jimmy Clark did in 1967 by 5 seconds or so seconds...some of you guys are even another few seconds quicker than that. Again not simulating 1967. The reason I see you saying SCGT looks game-ish is that it's not in***pit view, although we already have heard that there will be a***pit view. Also any sim rarely has a***pit view shown b4 release of demo or full version (which ever may come first). Can't judge anything but graphics on screenshots, which they did quite well. I'm waiting for those online 12hours of Sebring races. Everyone is parked and we all run to our computers and hit the power button. And away they go... :-)

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> >Thanks Arthur, this sim looks very promising. > Hmmm... is it just me or is it a game-ish odor from SCGT?? > Dont look much like a sim. to me. > A real real shame imho... > But I ******hope****** I'm wrong. > -- > All the best, > Edwin Solheim **remove spamguard in address to reply** > Drop by "The Paddock - a legendary site....." for some cool GPL stuff! > http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock

-- Jon Van Ginneken "I wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, handcuffed lightning, threw thunder in jail...I'm a bad dude." - Muhammad Ali

Must be you...Game-ish it isn't. ;) > Hmmm... is it just me or is it a game-ish odor from SCGT?? -- Marc J. Nelson SimRacing Online - http://www.simracing.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

>On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:18:45 -0600, Jon Van Ginneken >>Is GPL a sim? I ran a mock season accelerated time and the Loti killed both >>Brabham's have just maybe 1 more DNF per car...that ain't a simulation of a >>season. >It depends how realistic you want it. If you want a "simulation of a >season" then Bandini should be killed and the Lotus and Eagle fall out >of every other race with mechanical failure - it may be historically >accurate but it's not really fun. If you want it to be perfectly accurate, YOU wouldn't be there, either ;) ~daxe "religion is remedial spirituality" -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com/ The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! -----------== Over 66,000 Groups, Plus a Dedicated Binaries Server ==----------

I agree ;) Arthur Stealth Racing http://www.***sys.com/stealthracing.html

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>Must be you...Game-ish it isn't. ;) >> Hmmm... is it just me or is it a game-ish odor from SCGT?? >-- >Marc J. Nelson >SimRacing Online - http://www.simproject.com >* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:57:26 -0600, Jon Van Ginneken >So? I bring up facts? I don't care how much it's been done when something is not >accurate it's not a simulation...well that's my defnition. I really hate to see lap >times that are way off for any sim. No, you don't read and try to understand facts. Before posting anymore please go and LOOK on Dejanews. You will find that it is precisely BECAUSE things are done accurately that you see such a thing. In any case, as we have all discussed here if I give you a PERFECT computer simulation of a Lotus-49 and I drive the real thing you will ALWAYS be faster than me. Think about it. Simply put you cannot kill yourself, so you will always be prepared to drive at or beyond the limit of what I am prepared to do, that and the fact that you will get much more practice than me. Remember Clark's Spa practice time was set in about 10 or 12 laps and he was quicker in the race - he was still learning the track. How fast were you after 10 laps? So everyone but you should take more care? Q.E.D.... Cheers! John

Also, SCGT is being made or published or whatever by EA sports. That worries me right off the bat. Not once have they made a true racing sim. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

Hmmmm...wasn't Indy 500 a Papy game published by EA...gasp!!! I love Indy 500, and it is all sim just bad grafx (which I think is understandable for that era). > Also, SCGT is being made or published or whatever by EA sports. That worries > me right off the bat. Not once have they made a true racing sim. > Racer X > Veteran Sim Racer > Victory Lane- > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/ -- Jon Van Ginneken "I wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, handcuffed lightning, threw thunder in jail...I'm a bad dude." - Muhammad Ali

Jon Van Ginneken wrote You sure you do ? ;-D -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -= May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Just not at Mosport with you Frank, I may get taken out by a racer who loves to drive a Brabham in GPL and wants to be David Brabham in a Panoz... ;-)

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> Jon Van Ginneken wrote > >I'm looking forward to online racing like I said... > You sure you do ? > ;-D > -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> > -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ > -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ > -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. > -= May the Downforce be with you... > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

-- Jon Van Ginneken "I wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, handcuffed lightning, threw thunder in jail...I'm a bad dude." - Muhammad Ali

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> On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:57:26 -0600, Jon Van Ginneken > >So? I bring up facts? I don't care how much it's been done when something is not > >accurate it's not a simulation...well that's my defnition. I really hate to see lap > >times that are way off for any sim. > No, you don't read and try to understand facts. Before posting anymore > please go and LOOK on Dejanews. You will find that it is precisely > BECAUSE things are done accurately that you see such a thing.

Will do next time I make a quick referance just as long as you agree to read my main arguement (this GPL thing was to mention GPL has it's faults like anything else). My point was we cannot judge a game by it's screenshots, if that were the case SCGT would beat GPL hands down, which you didn't argue; but rather you came to GPL's defence when I was just looking for a yes or no answer if GPL was a (good) sim. My answer is yes. Then how'd he do the Nurburging in 8:06 or whatever it is? Clark hated Spa so I don't expect him to do well there, but shouldn't simulator now-a-days simulate a driver not doing well at a track? Oh yeah all my laps at the Nurburgring that border respectable had many instances where I would have put my life in serious danger, but they are still not even close to Clark's time. In my first 3 laps around Spa in Lotus I did a 3:26...not crashing once; I steered clear of the big tracks until. That was also probably the 3rd or 4th time I had ever practiced ith Lotus. Never made it ten laps because I had to goto sleep (it was 2:30am and I had to get up at 6am). That time is lower than pole in 67. Maybe Papy should've gone more indepth and made each race track with driver performance (like CPR did, one of the few thigs that were done well in CPR (that and engineer idea)...then they could just let the car decide if it breaks or not (so that you aren't in second and you just hold back cause in 67 so-and-so's engine blew). No I read it carefully and know enough about racing to say that GPL is not 100% accurate...that was my arguement/defence for non-Papy sims (gotta give the final proiduct a chance b4 you say its pure arcade game). The one thing I don't get it is I'm supposed to go outta my way to dejanews to search for a mediocre excuse when you can't read the message I replied to properly that's just above it in the string? I understand now, shame on me for bringing up a valid arguement. But in all seriousness lighten up a bit GPL is just a very accurate sim with some faults, although I know to some it's a way of life...but in my mind it's nothing worth getting upset about someone having a different view on the reality on F1 in 1967 than you. This just could go on and on, but this pointless bickering does nothing unless you work for Papy or have direct input in future sims, but then again I would THINK Sierra/Papyrus would be open to hearing whatever the consumer thought was inaccurate. -- Jon Van Ginneken "I wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, handcuffed lightning, threw thunder in jail...I'm a bad dude." - Muhammad Ali

Jon Van Ginneken wrote Yes when I will lap you ;-) Remember there's no scuderia in SportsCar GT ! Still.. hmm another bet. The one about the sub-8min lap at the Ring with a Stockcar still goes... but this time... especially with a Panoz. I can lap you at Road Atlanta in a 5lap race... 5bucks AMERICAN this time ;-D -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -= May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

> Jon Van Ginneken wrote > >Just not at Mosport with you Frank, I may get taken out by a racer who > loves > >to drive a Brabham in GPL and wants to be David Brabham in a Panoz... ;-) > Yes when I will lap you ;-) I shoulda mentioned 1st or 2nd turn of first lap :-) I thought it was sub 7 originally until I slapped some sense into you :-) Give me a McLaren F1 GTR anyday of the week and I'll smoke your batmobile any track any time. I a GT1 or WSC could do sub 7 I'm sure. Yeah hit me and then lap me as I'm in the pits getting the whole side of my car taped up. oooooooooooooooo, we have a big spender do we? Upping the ante from Canadian? :-P We have overused the face thingies. :-) -- Jon Van Ginneken "I wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, handcuffed lightning, threw thunder in jail...I'm a bad dude." - Muhammad Ali

ES> Dont look much like a sim. to me. ES> A real real shame imho... Why ??? Also, man mailt sich... .\\atze *home* : http://www.buesing.de

>>Is GPL a sim? I ran a mock season accelerated time and the Loti killed both >>Brabham's have just maybe 1 more DNF per car...that ain't a simulation of a >>season. Get a life. GPL is a simulation of a race car. Call Papy and tell them to make a manager or something to suit your needs.

I need not mention Mario Andretti racing,NASCAR '98, NASCAR 99/Revolution, and all those other racing games. Then again, Indy 500 was just made for the PC, not PSX (as it wasn't out by then, but still..)I just hope I'm wrong and SCGT is a true sim. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

Please keep this argument going I love it..... >> Jon Van Ginneken wrote >> >Just not at Mosport with you Frank, I may get taken out by a racer who >> loves >> >to drive a Brabham in GPL and wants to be David Brabham in a Panoz... ;-) >> Yes when I will lap you ;-) >I shoulda mentioned 1st or 2nd turn of first lap :-) >> Remember there's no scuderia in SportsCar GT ! Still.. hmm another bet. The >> one about the sub-8min lap at the Ring with a Stockcar still goes... but >> this time... especially with a Panoz. >I thought it was sub 7 originally until I slapped some sense into you :-) >Give me a McLaren F1 GTR anyday of the week and I'll smoke your batmobile any >track any time. I a GT1 or WSC could do sub 7 I'm sure. >> I can lap you at Road Atlanta in a 5lap race... >Yeah hit me and then lap me as I'm in the pits getting the whole side of my car >taped up. >> 5bucks AMERICAN this time ;-D >oooooooooooooooo, we have a big spender do we? Upping the ante from Canadian?

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>:-P >> -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> >> -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ >> -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ >> -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. >> -= May the Downforce be with you... >> "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise >> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world." >We have overused the face thingies. :-) >-- >Jon Van Ginneken >"I wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, >handcuffed lightning, threw thunder in jail...I'm a bad dude." > - Muhammad Ali

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:50:38 -0600, Jon Van Ginneken >Will do next time I make a quick referance just as long as you agree to read my main >arguement (this GPL thing was to mention GPL has it's faults like anything else). My >point was we cannot judge a game by it's screenshots, if that were the case SCGT would >beat GPL hands down, which you didn't argue; Actually I do argue with that statement, quite a lot in fact. If you choose to judge the quality of a product by dint of the advertising released by the company making it then you can't be surprised when your opinion is skewed. Papy released a video or two during development (to let us know how the game _moved_) but screenshots were small 320x200 affairs made by *** sites or mags. On top of that, SCGT still has the "rose-tinted glasses" syndrome, since we all WANT it to be great. If you take a few screenshots of GPL, perhaps from around Spa say, it looks a lot better than what SCGT currently offers (IMO at least) - those car models are really in need of work. I've driven BMW M3s for a number of years and believe me they look nothing like the ones in SCGT. To my mind the tracks in SCGT lack atmosphere, looking too clinical. On top of that there looks like there will be quite a bit of pop-up in the graphics as you can often see large objects in the mid-background aren't yet drawn. Still, it's only a screenshot and it's well before release - I'm not going to be crying into my cornflakes, but I'm not reading too much into them either. If that is the case, why do you bother to post your opinions if you then want to ask people not to state theirs, and why go to all the trouble of posting a long response? Pot, kettle, black? If you class it as "bickering" whenever someone doesn't share your opinion then that is probably the first thing to look at. When you classify someone's response as a "madiocre excuse" you're not exactly going out of your way to avoid confrontational messages either. Cheers! John

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:05:25 -0600, Jon Van Ginneken >Still you seem to have forgotten Spa. Spa is a series of very quick corners leading onto massively long straights - improving exit speed improves lap time enormously, since you carry speed all the way along those straights. Even setting aside the fact that we get much, much more practice, the fact that we can attack the corners without fear will give enormous drops in time. I take the Masta Kink at over 170mph in GPL, and having driven that stretch of road in real life I know for sure the sphincter factor would rule that out for any but the insane. If you were to stand in front of my PC with a sledgehammer and pound me all over the head and body if I crashed you can be sure I'd be easily 10mph down going through Masta, or any other corner for that matter. You can work out the math for the laptime from there I'm sure. No-one's saying there aren't problems with GPL, to say anything is perfect is ridiculous. At the same time you shouldn't try to directly equate real-life and sims, because there are inherent compromises which preclude it. Cheers! John

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>>>Is GPL a sim? I ran a mock season accelerated time and the Loti killed both >>>Brabham's have just maybe 1 more DNF per car...that ain't a simulation of a >>>season. >Get a life. GPL is a simulation of a race car. >Call Papy and tell them to make a manager or something to suit your >needs.

In the meantime you should learn to quote - I didn't write the above. Cheers! John

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> On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:50:38 -0600, Jon Van Ginneken > >Will do next time I make a quick referance just as long as you agree to read my main > >arguement (this GPL thing was to mention GPL has it's faults like anything else). My > >point was we cannot judge a game by it's screenshots, if that were the case SCGT would > >beat GPL hands down, which you didn't argue; > Actually I do argue with that statement, quite a lot in fact. If you > choose to judge the quality of a product by dint of the advertising > released by the company making it then you can't be surprised when > your opinion is skewed. Papy released a video or two during > development (to let us know how the game _moved_) but screenshots were > small 320x200 affairs made by *** sites or mags. On top of that, > SCGT still has the "rose-tinted glasses" syndrome, since we all WANT > it to be great. If you take a few screenshots of GPL, perhaps from > around Spa say, it looks a lot better than what SCGT currently offers > (IMO at least) - those car models are really in need of work. I've > driven BMW M3s for a number of years and believe me they look nothing > like the ones in SCGT. To my mind the tracks in SCGT lack atmosphere, > looking too clinical. On top of that there looks like there will be > quite a bit of pop-up in the graphics as you can often see large > objects in the mid-background aren't yet drawn. Still, it's only a > screenshot and it's well before release - I'm not going to be crying > into my cornflakes, but I'm not reading too much into them either.

We'll see when final version is released... Maybe because I came to the realization that I wasn't budging and you took me off the topic that was posted on...I was saying nothing is gonna match real life 100%. You seem to agree with that, but don't want to agree on a *small* example I used...that's why. Yes it was a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, but this was not near the intention of my post. I respond to that by just looking at F1 racers and seeing what they have said...that's all. I'm saying your points have some validity, but again not 100%. Many of the lap times are spot on at all the tracks, but at some they are not. I can understand what you say when it's a few seconds, but in some cases you have given no respect to any other car but the Lotus or any other racer but Jimmy Clark. Some of the others deserve the respect because both the things you are giving the utmost to were not champions that year. Again you did not recognize the issue at hand. We cannot tell what a sim is like untill we have tried the final product, screenshots will not tell us anything; and even if you have tried a beta not everything can be told by that. Both Marc and Arthur have said SCGT is not shabby, I have great respect for their opinion and racing abilities, so we'll see. -- Jon Van Ginneken "I wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, handcuffed lightning, threw thunder in jail...I'm a bad dude." - Muhammad Ali

<snip> <snip> "I never think I can hurt myself-not seriously. If you believe it can happen to you how can you do this job? If you're never over eight tenths, or whatever, because you're thinking about a shunt you're not going as quick as you can. And if you're not doing that, you're not a racing driver. Som guys in Forumla 1 ...well, to me, they're not racing drivers. They drive racing cars, that's all. They're doing half a job. And in that case, I wonder why they do it at all ..." --Gilles Villeneuve http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/vill_bio.htm Some racers do put it to the edge. I wouldn't in real life, but some do. -- Jon Van Ginneken "I wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, handcuffed lightning, threw thunder in jail...I'm a bad dude." - Muhammad Ali

On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:01:02 -0600, Jon Van Ginneken >We'll see when final version is released... Ah, but that won't be the same as the screenshots, will it. Still, to go back to the point I originally made, while you and I may have to wait to see the finished version to make such a value judgement, some others have already seen SCGT. You shouldn't presume that everyone's knowledge base is the same as your own. I know others for whom I have equal respect who would disagree with that, but we'll see in the fullness of time. Cheers! John

Hi, I looked at the screenshots on the site, is there a***pit view in this title? Has anyone seen one yet? Later, John

Jon Van Ginneken wrote that's impossible with your starts.. I bet that if I start at the back of a 20car pack I can still pass you into T1 with your starts <g> :) Naw even with a Truck I would still beat you there ;-) Automatic pits ;-P Yes well I have some extra bucks this week from some overtime work ;) Yepo &8-D -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -= May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

>In the meantime you should learn to quote - I didn't write the above. Sorry, missed the key ;)

Yes and yes. > Hi, > I looked at the screenshots on the site, is there a***pit view in > this title? Has anyone seen one yet? > Later, > John -- Marc J. Nelson SimRacing Online - http://www.simracing.com * No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

Agreed...not game-ish. Also, don't be discourged by the external view.

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>Must be you...Game-ish it isn't. ;) >> Hmmm... is it just me or is it a game-ish odor from SCGT?? >-- >Marc J. Nelson >SimRacing Online - http://www.simracing.com >* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

> Jon Van Ginneken wrote > >I shoulda mentioned 1st or 2nd turn of first lap :-) > that's impossible with your starts.. I bet that if I start at the back of a > 20car pack I can still pass you into T1 with your starts <g> :) I learned my starts from the best at those type <g> ;-) I got dibs on the semi...ooooooooooooh that would be so sweet; I don't know how I would survive the ordeal, but if I did I would run into your parked truck as I cross s/f line...nice effect is all :-). More time for me to stew over your reckless driving. :-) Just to hard to stop though, isn't it? ;-P -- Jon Van Ginneken "I wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, handcuffed lightning, threw thunder in jail...I'm a bad dude." - Muhammad Ali

SCGT is being developed by Image Space Incorporated and now is being published by EA (not EAsports), because *** has sold all it's games to EA. But the fact that EA is publishing this game doesn't say it's a bad game. ISI is completely new to EA. SCGT is being developed by some people who have a lot of experience in making Simulations for Car factories etc. And EA hasn't published earlier game of them so you don't know if the game is good or not. And according to some very experienced Sim Racer's this sim is going to rock. Dreadman >Also, SCGT is being made or published or whatever by EA sports. That worries >me right off the bat. Not once have they made a true racing sim. >Racer X >Veteran Sim Racer >Victory Lane- >[link lost in import]

I never said it was. Your talking about Electronic Arts right? If so, ever hear of NFS I, II, & III or Lotus turbo racing? Racer X Veteran Sim Racer Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/