Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits in GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be getting quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but the problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with the original pot. What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad, too? The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in the last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a Voodoo II. Thanks, Marc. -- **************************************************************************** Marc Collins "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---" General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864 ****************************************************************************

Marc, This is definetly a Thrustmaster problem and is most pronounced in GPL! I've had two of Thrustmaster's products (GP1 and Nascar Sprint). Both of these had pots that went bad almost immediately (twitching). I had to resort to spraying the inside of the pots with electronic contact cleaner before each session. This stopped the twitching but was only temporary (until the cleaner evaporated). Now this solution only works for about 1/2 hour (not good enough for a long race). Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots (translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL if you want to be competitive. Your only solution is to buy a good quality wheel and pedals (expensive) or continue buying Thrustmaster and hope you get a good one (two in row was enough for me). Doug

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>My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight >tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits in >GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be getting >quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a >year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but the >problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with the >original pot. >What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad, too? >The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in the >last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a Voodoo >II. >Thanks, >Marc.

I'm not sure if that's true, I use a TM "Formula 1" (NASCAR Pro) wheel/pedal set and I like to think I'm pretty competitive - 1m27.9 at Monza, 1m04.3 at Watkins, 1m20.0 at Kyalami etc etc and I think I am also the current leader of the IGPS GPL series (I have to wait until the Spa results are updated to be sure). I've had the thing since September and have had no problems with it at all. Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

Hey Graeme Those times are not just competitive, there great! Maybe I ought to check into this wheel. One question - how comfortable are the pedals for long sessions? I have long legs and some of the pedals have an upright position which I find awkard. For me, the pedals make the difference in a wheel. The MS FF pedals look promising but the price is high considering that I don't care about FF. Any input? Doug

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>>Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots >>(translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL if >>you want to be competitive. >I'm not sure if that's true, I use a TM "Formula 1" (NASCAR Pro) >wheel/pedal set and I like to think I'm pretty competitive - 1m27.9 at >Monza, 1m04.3 at Watkins, 1m20.0 at Kyalami etc etc and I think I am >also the current leader of the IGPS GPL series (I have to wait until the >Spa results are updated to be sure). >I've had the thing since September and have had no problems with it at >all. >Cheers! >Graeme Nash >http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk >ICQ# 11257824 >1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics store. It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first two from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that can cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer. Marc. >Marc, >This is definetly a Thrustmaster problem and is most pronounced in GPL! >I've had two of Thrustmaster's products (GP1 and Nascar Sprint). Both of >these had pots that went bad almost immediately (twitching). I had to resort

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>to spraying the inside of the pots with electronic contact cleaner before >each session. This stopped the twitching but was only temporary (until the >cleaner evaporated). Now this solution only works for about 1/2 hour (not >good enough for a long race). Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots >(translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL if >you want to be competitive. Your only solution is to buy a good quality >wheel and pedals (expensive) or continue buying Thrustmaster and hope you >get a good one (two in row was enough for me). >Doug

>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics store. >It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first two >from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high >quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that can >cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer. >Marc. I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I have an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand new Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel. I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around inside my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1 beta, blah blah and it still happens. Call me paranoid but I'm sure that "the shakes" are much more likely to happen when there are other cars near me on the track i.e. a lot of noise. I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new steering wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm considering. Andy.

It would fuc*** figure if it was my SB PCI 128 (Ensoniq) contributing to this problem. The ***y card has so many sound related and driver problems already.... God, I would like to shoot CL over this one. I don't even have room in my system for a dedicated game port, so I don't know what to think. I find it very hard to believe, though, that three pots. (two from TM and one "independent") all have exactly the same faults. I only switched to the 128 a few months back...and probably presumed that the shaking was just my old original pot. starting to go. Now it makes sense that it is the sound card's game port causing the problem since it happens consistently even after a major overhaul of the wheel parts. AARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...but thanks for the helpful tip!! Marc. >>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics >store. >>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first two >>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high >>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that can >>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer. >>Marc. >I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I have >an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand new

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>Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel. >I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around inside >my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1 >beta, blah blah and it still happens. >Call me paranoid but I'm sure that "the shakes" are much more likely to >happen when there are other cars near me on the track i.e. a lot of noise. >I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new steering >wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm >considering. >Andy.

Try shooting some electronic contact cleaner (not the wire drier stuff you find in auto parts stores) directly into the pots before running the sim. If this fixes the problem (this will only be temporary 'till the stuff evaporates - but should last about 1/2 hour) then its the pots and not your pc. As stated in my previous posts I've had 2 Breakmaster products with bad pots. Test your setup by doing a calibation on your wheel before and after spraying it with the contact cleaner. Even a slight jiggling of the wheel, gas or brake will prevent you from good lap times in GPL. I just purchased a MS FF for GPL. Since its digital it's absolutely rock solid and the calibration will never wander. You can adjust the amount of "tension" and "centering" effect which works in non-FF sims (will not work in a pure DOS only game). This works great in GPL. Even though GPL does not support FF effects, the FF is still active which gives you auto-center like the sprung or bungee corded wheels (this is also adjustable). You get a good tight feel (its adjustable). You can also it set up for separate gas and brake axis for GPL. The pedals fit my driving style perfectly and have a much better position and throw than any of the others I've seen or read about in the reviews in the under $200 range. Most of the reviews praise the wheels but slam the pedals (like the Logitech). The decent pedals of the MS FF made the difference in the decision for me. It's pricey but the features and pedals made the difference worth it. This is a good wheel and pedals. I'll never go back to a Thrustmaster! Before the TSW crowd jumps on me, I had an absolute limit of under $200 to work with (even this was a stretch since I recently spent wads on upgrades) or I'd end up in divorce court. I'll choose my wife over GPL anyday but this way I can have both! Doug >It would fuc*** figure if it was my SB PCI 128 (Ensoniq) contributing to >this problem. The ***y card has so many sound related and driver problems >already.... God, I would like to shoot CL over this one. I don't even have

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>room in my system for a dedicated game port, so I don't know what to think. >I find it very hard to believe, though, that three pots. (two from TM and >one "independent") all have exactly the same faults. >I only switched to the 128 a few months back...and probably presumed that >the shaking was just my old original pot. starting to go. Now it makes >sense that it is the sound card's game port causing the problem since it >happens consistently even after a major overhaul of the wheel parts. >AARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >...but thanks for the helpful tip!! >Marc.

On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:52:03 -0000, "Andrew Middleton"

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>>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics >store. >>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first two >>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high >>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that can >>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer. >I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I have >an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand new >Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel. >I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around inside >my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1 >beta, blah blah and it still happens. >I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new steering >wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm >considering. >Andy.

Sorry, old chap, but I don't think either a new wheel or soundcard is the fix. I have the same problem with a TSW, and now still, with a new PDPI L4 soundcard. It must be someting else. PDPI has informed me that they have ordered a TSW and will report after examination. It has been posted that the fix is to remove and then reinstall the soundcard and it's software after the Gameport is installed. Others say that has been tried. If anyone discovers a positive cause or fix, I hope it gets posted, in large letters! Thanx to those who have tried to help. Sam

The pedals are fine for me. They seem a bit too spaced apart at first, but you soon you get used to them. Pedal travel is pretty long which I like. The brake pedal is quite firm but it's nice. I like the setup and have no problem driving it. The longest session I've ever run with it non-stop is an hour long training session at Kyalami. No problems at all. The rest of the experience is a bit uncomfortable for me but that's a problem at my end - my computer desk is too low and so I have to drive with the wheel unit resting loosely on my knees. I'm sure I could go quicker if I wasn't constantly moving my hardware around whilst driving :-) The arms do shake a bit but I only ever notice it in the pits. Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

Yeah, TM works for me too - 1.27.3 at Monza, 1.04.0x at Watkins 1.19 Kyalami etc... ;o) I have yet to try out the PDPI which arrived today (damn paper work at customs)... I'll report if there will be any time improvements due to this expensive game card (maybe 1.26 at Monza :o)) but I bought it mainly for online playing because it removes conflicts with modem, it removes jitter (then my TM wheel will be accurate as some expensive fancy wheel), and above all of that, it improves FPS and controller rate (higher it is, easier it is to controll the car), but this is what they say on their homepage, so I'm yet to see if it's true.... Tadej Krevh Lotus Internet Racing http://members.xoom.com/LotusRacing/

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> >Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots > >(translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL if > >you want to be competitive. > I'm not sure if that's true, I use a TM "Formula 1" (NASCAR Pro) > wheel/pedal set and I like to think I'm pretty competitive - 1m27.9 at > Monza, 1m04.3 at Watkins, 1m20.0 at Kyalami etc etc and I think I am > also the current leader of the IGPS GPL series (I have to wait until the > Spa results are updated to be sure). > I've had the thing since September and have had no problems with it at > all. > Cheers! > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk > ICQ# 11257824 > 1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

Go to http://www.pdpi.net and check out their PDPI L4 gamecard. It has got a DSP (digital signal processor on the board) which is said to remove the jitter, improve frame rate, etc...Just check it out and see it for yourself, it's expensive though - more then $100 with shipping. Tadej

Yes, I think that the pot can't report jitering values when you DON'T even move the wheel. It must be controller's fault imo.

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> It would fuc*** figure if it was my SB PCI 128 (Ensoniq) contributing to > this problem. The ***y card has so many sound related and driver problems > already.... God, I would like to shoot CL over this one. I don't even have > room in my system for a dedicated game port, so I don't know what to think. > I find it very hard to believe, though, that three pots. (two from TM and > one "independent") all have exactly the same faults. > I only switched to the 128 a few months back...and probably presumed that > the shaking was just my old original pot. starting to go. Now it makes > sense that it is the sound card's game port causing the problem since it > happens consistently even after a major overhaul of the wheel parts. > AARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > ...but thanks for the helpful tip!! > Marc. > >>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics > >store. > >>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first two > >>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high > >>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that > can > >>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer. > >>Marc. > >I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I have > >an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand > new > >Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel. > >I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around inside > >my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1 > >beta, blah blah and it still happens. > >Call me paranoid but I'm sure that "the shakes" are much more likely to > >happen when there are other cars near me on the track i.e. a lot of noise. > >I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new steering > >wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm > >considering. > >Andy.

You mean your Thomas wheel also "jitters" in GPL (or other sims.)? Uninstall sound card--my game port is on the sound card...could you elaborate as to what the supposed benefit of this process is? You don't suppose it could be a problem with GPL do you??????????? Thanks. Marc.

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>On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:52:03 -0000, "Andrew Middleton" >>>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics >>store. >>>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first

two >>>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high >>>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that can >>>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer. >>I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I have >>an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand new >>Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel. >>I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around inside >>my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1 >>beta, blah blah and it still happens. >>I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new steering

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>>wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm >>considering. >>Andy. >Sorry, old chap, but I don't think either a new wheel or soundcard is >the fix. I have the same problem with a TSW, and now still, with a new >PDPI L4 soundcard. It must be someting else. PDPI has informed me that >they have ordered a TSW and will report after examination. It has been >posted that the fix is to remove and then reinstall the soundcard and >it's software after the Gameport is installed. Others say that has >been tried. If anyone discovers a positive cause or fix, I hope it >gets posted, in large letters! Thanx to those who have tried to help. >Sam

Ignore the GPL part--my frustration is getting me carried away! The jittering is quite visible in the Win98 calibration screen, so it has nothing to do with GPL. Marc.

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>You mean your Thomas wheel also "jitters" in GPL (or other sims.)? >Uninstall sound card--my game port is on the sound card...could you >elaborate as to what the supposed benefit of this process is? >You don't suppose it could be a problem with GPL do you??????????? >Thanks. >Marc. >>On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:52:03 -0000, "Andrew Middleton" >>>>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics >>>store. >>>>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first >two >>>>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high >>>>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that >can >>>>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer. >>>I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I >have >>>an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand >new >>>Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel. >>>I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around >inside >>>my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1 >>>beta, blah blah and it still happens. >>>I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new >steering >>>wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm >>>considering. >>>Andy. >>Sorry, old chap, but I don't think either a new wheel or soundcard is >>the fix. I have the same problem with a TSW, and now still, with a new >>PDPI L4 soundcard. It must be someting else. PDPI has informed me that >>they have ordered a TSW and will report after examination. It has been >>posted that the fix is to remove and then reinstall the soundcard and >>it's software after the Gameport is installed. Others say that has >>been tried. If anyone discovers a positive cause or fix, I hope it >>gets posted, in large letters! Thanx to those who have tried to help. >>Sam

That makes sense... Do you have any idea what other things could cause the jittering? My system is configured perfectly with no hardware or software conflicts of any kind...and I don't even have a modem in my machine! Marc. >Yes, I think that the pot can't report jitering values when you DON'T even move

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>the wheel. It must be controller's fault imo. >> It would fuc*** figure if it was my SB PCI 128 (Ensoniq) contributing to >> this problem. The ***y card has so many sound related and driver

problems >> already.... God, I would like to shoot CL over this one. I don't even have >> room in my system for a dedicated game port, so I don't know what to think.

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>> I find it very hard to believe, though, that three pots. (two from TM and >> one "independent") all have exactly the same faults. >> I only switched to the 128 a few months back...and probably presumed that >> the shaking was just my old original pot. starting to go. Now it makes >> sense that it is the sound card's game port causing the problem since it >> happens consistently even after a major overhaul of the wheel parts. >> AARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> ...but thanks for the helpful tip!! >> Marc. >> >>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics >> >store. >> >>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first

two

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>> >>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high >> >>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that >> can >> >>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer. >> >>Marc. >> >I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I

have >> >an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand >> new >> >Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel. >> >I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around inside >> >my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1 >> >beta, blah blah and it still happens. >> >Call me paranoid but I'm sure that "the shakes" are much more likely to >> >happen when there are other cars near me on the track i.e. a lot of noise. >> >I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new steering >> >wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm >> >considering. >> >Andy.

See Sam's message above...bad news! Marc.

On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:30:13 -0500, "Marc Collins"

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>You mean your Thomas wheel also "jitters" in GPL (or other sims.)? >Uninstall sound card--my game port is on the sound card...could you >elaborate as to what the supposed benefit of this process is? >You don't suppose it could be a problem with GPL do you??????????? >Thanks. >Marc.

Ans. to Marc: Yes, have jitter with TSW. Shaking arms. When I installed dedicated Gameport, PDPI L4, the jitter in the calibrations went away. The calibrations are rock-solid steady, now. But the arms still jitter, and what's worse, the cars in GPL have become more eratic. The soundcard item: When you install a game port, there may still be mini-drivers in the soundcard software which "booger" the contoller operation. It has been suggested by Jake that if you remove the soundcard, physically, and its software, after you install the Gameport (PDPI, in my case) and then re-install it, (for the sound) your machine will recognize that the gameport takes precedence and will function properly. I am going to try this. Jake, apologies if I made any errors. If it works for me, I will post. By the way, that guy cutting low 127's at Monza doesn't DESERVE any inprovement! :-) Sam

OOPS! I was calling the PDPI a soundcard. It is, of course, a GAMECARD, not a soundcard. Sorry for confusion. I have a photographic memory, but I'm not getting SAME DAY SERVICE, any more! Sam

Just for the record, my Windows calibration screen is also rock solid - the jitters are only occuring in GPL. Hopefully we are getting somewhere with this because I'd love to be able to pin it down. It looks as though a gamecard isn't going to solve it. Andy. P.S. would a Michael J.Fox joke about this problem be in bad taste ?

I'm not convinced that the MS FF pedals would justify the purchase. Seems like the hardware driver would be designed to utilize feedback that even when not utilized may slightly impair the controller's bandwidth/responsiveness..and what about centering..even a bungy cord would be better than a FF wheel with centering off. I've never used an FF wheel so I could be way off base here.

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>Hey Graeme >Those times are not just competitive, there great! >Maybe I ought to check into this wheel. One question - how comfortable are >the pedals for long sessions? I have long legs and some of the pedals have >an upright position which I find awkard. For me, the pedals make the >difference in a wheel. The MS FF pedals look promising but the price is

high

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>considering that I don't care about FF. >Any input? >Doug >>>Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots >>>(translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL if >>>you want to be competitive. >>I'm not sure if that's true, I use a TM "Formula 1" (NASCAR Pro) >>wheel/pedal set and I like to think I'm pretty competitive - 1m27.9 at >>Monza, 1m04.3 at Watkins, 1m20.0 at Kyalami etc etc and I think I am >>also the current leader of the IGPS GPL series (I have to wait until the >>Spa results are updated to be sure). >>I've had the thing since September and have had no problems with it at >>all. >>Cheers! >>Graeme Nash >>http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk >>ICQ# 11257824 >>1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

I have a new P II 333 with a vortex A3D soundcard and had exactly the same problem when using my TM F1 wheel, (brand new, first one broke :-( ), using the Microsoft Sidewinder standard joystick the jittering reduced considerably, but was still apparent. Both of these controllers worked fine with my old Compaq P166mmx with onboard soundcard / gameport so I presume that the problem is not with the wheel or j/stick, or even with GPL because I also had problems in F1 RS and MGPRS2 where the car looked as though it was juddering down the road. I spoke to Thrustmaster's technical helpline in the UK and they said that it may be a speed issue between the PC and soundcard. The resistance of the pots in the thrustmaster wheel are higher than the Microsoft stick and the resistance also increases when turning the steering to the left. What I found was that the jittering got worse the further to the left I turned and improved to the right, so it seems as though the higher the resistance the longer the port takes to read it which is probably causing the jittering. I now use a Microsoft wheel which, due to it's digital control, has eliminated the jittering I don't know of any other way of solving this problem except maybe trying different soundcards or gameports. Ian Parker

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>That makes sense... Do you have any idea what other things could cause the >jittering? My system is configured perfectly with no hardware or software >conflicts of any kind...and I don't even have a modem in my machine! >Marc. >>Yes, I think that the pot can't report jitering values when you DON'T even >move >>the wheel. It must be controller's fault imo.

Thanks for the clarifications...please post and let us know whether it works--or not! Marc.

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>On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:30:13 -0500, "Marc Collins" >>You mean your Thomas wheel also "jitters" in GPL (or other sims.)? >>Uninstall sound card--my game port is on the sound card...could you >>elaborate as to what the supposed benefit of this process is? >>You don't suppose it could be a problem with GPL do you??????????? >>Thanks. >>Marc. >Ans. to Marc: Yes, have jitter with TSW. Shaking arms. When I >installed dedicated Gameport, PDPI L4, the jitter in the calibrations >went away. The calibrations are rock-solid steady, now. But the arms >still jitter, and what's worse, the cars in GPL have become more >eratic. The soundcard item: When you install a game port, there may >still be mini-drivers in the soundcard software which "booger" the >contoller operation. It has been suggested by Jake that if you remove >the soundcard, physically, and its software, after you install the >Gameport (PDPI, in my case) and then re-install it, (for the sound) >your machine will recognize that the gameport takes precedence and >will function properly. I am going to try this. Jake, apologies if I >made any errors. If it works for me, I will post. By the way, that guy >cutting low 127's at Monza doesn't DESERVE any inprovement! :-) Sam

I've looked at all the pedals in the under $200 crowd and the MS is the only set that works for me. The Thrustmaster Pro came close but they were just too vertical and I didn't like the brake pedal sticking out further than the gas (obviously designed for N1, 2, 99). The MS also completely solved the jitters problem I had on three axis using my previous two thrustmaster products. It's now smooth as silk. The onboard 25mhz co-processor is more than adequate to handle the interface. The auto-centering is handled by an "electronic spring" whose tension is adjustable in the MS software supplied with the unit. I drive GPL almost exclusively. I've got the MS wheel setup for separate brake and gas and with FF on for the auto-centering action. I could have purchased a TSW for $230 + shipping but probably would still have the jitters and have to purchase a high quality gameport ($100) to solve that problem (re: this thread). The jitters are gone the wheel and pedals are smooth - i'm going racing! Doug >I'm not convinced that the MS FF pedals would justify the purchase. Seems >like the hardware driver would be designed to utilize feedback that even >when not utilized may slightly impair the controller's >bandwidth/responsiveness..and what about centering..even a bungy cord would >be better than a FF wheel with centering off. I've never used an FF wheel so

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>I could be way off base here. >>Hey Graeme >>Those times are not just competitive, there great! >>Maybe I ought to check into this wheel. One question - how comfortable are >>the pedals for long sessions? I have long legs and some of the pedals have >>an upright position which I find awkard. For me, the pedals make the >>difference in a wheel. The MS FF pedals look promising but the price is >high >>considering that I don't care about FF. >>Any input? >>Doug >>>>Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots >>>>(translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL

if

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>>>>you want to be competitive. >>>I'm not sure if that's true, I use a TM "Formula 1" (NASCAR Pro) >>>wheel/pedal set and I like to think I'm pretty competitive - 1m27.9 at >>>Monza, 1m04.3 at Watkins, 1m20.0 at Kyalami etc etc and I think I am >>>also the current leader of the IGPS GPL series (I have to wait until the >>>Spa results are updated to be sure). >>>I've had the thing since September and have had no problems with it at >>>all. >>>Cheers! >>>Graeme Nash >>>http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk >>>ICQ# 11257824 >>>1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

Are there any digital wheels with decent pedals that also have a gear shift? I don't like using buttons in sims. where you were supposed to be using a real gear shift. Marc. >I've looked at all the pedals in the under $200 crowd and the MS is the only >set that works for me. The Thrustmaster Pro came close but they were just >too vertical and I didn't like the brake pedal sticking out further than the

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>gas (obviously designed for N1, 2, 99). The MS also completely solved the >jitters problem I had on three axis using my previous two thrustmaster >products. It's now smooth as silk. >The onboard 25mhz co-processor is more than adequate to handle the >interface. >The auto-centering is handled by an "electronic spring" whose tension is >adjustable in the MS software supplied with the unit. >I drive GPL almost exclusively. I've got the MS wheel setup for separate >brake and gas and with FF on for the auto-centering action. >I could have purchased a TSW for $230 + shipping but probably would still >have the jitters and have to purchase a high quality gameport ($100) to >solve that problem (re: this thread). >The jitters are gone the wheel and pedals are smooth - i'm going racing! >Doug >>I'm not convinced that the MS FF pedals would justify the purchase. Seems >>like the hardware driver would be designed to utilize feedback that even >>when not utilized may slightly impair the controller's >>bandwidth/responsiveness..and what about centering..even a bungy cord

would

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>>be better than a FF wheel with centering off. I've never used an FF wheel >so >>I could be way off base here. >>>Hey Graeme >>>Those times are not just competitive, there great! >>>Maybe I ought to check into this wheel. One question - how comfortable

are >>>the pedals for long sessions? I have long legs and some of the pedals have

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>>>an upright position which I find awkard. For me, the pedals make the >>>difference in a wheel. The MS FF pedals look promising but the price is >>high >>>considering that I don't care about FF. >>>Any input? >>>Doug >>>>>Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots >>>>>(translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL >if >>>>>you want to be competitive. >>>>I'm not sure if that's true, I use a TM "Formula 1" (NASCAR Pro) >>>>wheel/pedal set and I like to think I'm pretty competitive - 1m27.9 at >>>>Monza, 1m04.3 at Watkins, 1m20.0 at Kyalami etc etc and I think I am >>>>also the current leader of the IGPS GPL series (I have to wait until the >>>>Spa results are updated to be sure). >>>>I've had the thing since September and have had no problems with it at >>>>all. >>>>Cheers! >>>>Graeme Nash >>>>http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk >>>>ICQ# 11257824 >>>>1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

The MSFFW pedals are the most comfortable I've used so far... One word of warning. If you race bare-footed, don't reach your feet behind the pedals to pull the base up towards you. The molding of the plastic is RAZOR SHARP on the back of the pedals, and I actually cut a foot wide open on them. I intend on taking a file to the back of the pedals next weekend. -Larry

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> Those times are not just competitive, there great! > Maybe I ought to check into this wheel. One question - how comfortable are > the pedals for long sessions? I have long legs and some of the pedals have > an upright position which I find awkard. For me, the pedals make the > difference in a wheel. The MS FF pedals look promising but the price is high > considering that I don't care about FF. > Any input?

On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:04:50 -0500, "Marc Collins"

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>See Sam's message above...bad news! >Marc. >>Go to http://www.pdpi.net and check out their PDPI L4 gamecard. It has got >a DSP >>(digital signal processor on the board) which is said to remove the jitter, >>improve frame rate, etc...Just check it out and see it for yourself, it's >>expensive though - more then $100 with shipping. >>Tadej >>> I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new >steering >>> wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm >>> considering. >>> Andy.

OK, I guess Mad Cow Disease is the next try at a fix. Tonight we tried Jake Myers fix for twitches and instability. You recall the idea was to eliminate any residual mini-drivers from the soundcard software resident in the computer by installing the Gameport (PDPI) and THEN physically removing the soundcard AND it's software and then reinstalling it. The computer was then supposed to recognize that the gamecard is to take precedence. Controller is a TSW. Well, we did this. Twitches and instability remain. Performance was actually better with the old soundcard port. There is a Digital Signal Processor (DSP) on th PDPI, I believe, but if it's anything like the one I built to remove static from SW Radio, it just filters out the noise. The static is still there, you just can't hear it. Thus stability in the calibration may just "mask" what's actually going on. I don't even have stable calibration since this last gyration. So, tomorrow I'll try changing the steering pot. I suspect that maybe the gamecard needs a "slider" to match your computer speed to the pots in the controller. "Go with throttle up!" (The last words to the spaceship Challenger) Sam

I have Logitech Formula (non-force feedback) wheel, that does away with all bouncing around of the calibration numbers I saw with my TM GP1. Unfortunately, I'm discovering the calibration is difficult to get centered (4 to 5 tries usually) and that it drifts when changing windows in GPL. Once you are driving, it appears to stay where it was when you entered the car, but whether it is still centered like it was in the calibration window seems to be a ***shoot. It seems something odd is going on here, and whether it is the wheels, GPL, or Windows is unclear. I've tried the Logitech Profiler, but I can't drive GPL at all with it installed. I've down loaded various centering and calibration utilities with no effect. The Logitech seems to have some electronics that smoothes out the jitters, at the expense of calibration stability. I'm not sure which is worse... Kevin Caldwell Calgary, Canada >On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:04:50 -0500, "Marc Collins" >>See Sam's message above...bad news! There is a Digital Signal Processor (DSP)

> The MSFFW pedals are the most comfortable I've used so far... > One word of warning. If you race bare-footed, don't reach your feet > behind the pedals to pull the base up towards you. The molding of the > plastic is RAZOR SHARP on the back of the pedals, and I actually cut a > foot wide open on them. And they say sim racing isn't dangerous! Dave Ewing

Hehe... -Larry

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> > The MSFFW pedals are the most comfortable I've used so far... > > One word of warning. If you race bare-footed, don't reach your feet > > behind the pedals to pull the base up towards you. The molding of the > > plastic is RAZOR SHARP on the back of the pedals, and I actually cut a > > foot wide open on them. > And they say sim racing isn't dangerous! > Dave Ewing

What sound card (or game port) are you using? I read about a drifting problem with the Saitek wheel and they have a patch available....have you contacted Logitech? Marc >I have Logitech Formula (non-force feedback) wheel, that does away with all >bouncing around of the calibration numbers I saw with my TM GP1. >Unfortunately, I'm discovering the calibration is difficult to get centered >(4 to 5 tries usually) and that it drifts when changing windows in GPL. Once >you are driving, it appears to stay where it was when you entered the car, >but whether it is still centered like it was in the calibration window seems

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>to be a ***shoot. >It seems something odd is going on here, and whether it is the wheels, GPL, >or Windows is unclear. I've tried the Logitech Profiler, but I can't drive >GPL at all with it installed. I've down loaded various centering and >calibration utilities with no effect. The Logitech seems to have some >electronics that smoothes out the jitters, at the expense of calibration >stability. I'm not sure which is worse... >Kevin Caldwell >Calgary, Canada >>On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:04:50 -0500, "Marc Collins" >>>See Sam's message above...bad news! >There is a Digital Signal Processor (DSP) >>on th PDPI, I believe, but if it's anything like the one I built to >>remove static from SW Radio, it just filters out the noise. The static >>is still there, you just can't hear it. Thus stability in the >>calibration may just "mask" what's actually going on. I don't even >>have stable calibration since this last gyration. So, tomorrow I'll >>try changing the steering pot. I suspect that maybe the gamecard needs >>a "slider" to match your computer speed to the pots in the controller. >>"Go with throttle up!" (The last words to the spaceship Challenger) >>Sam

I did, and an older SB 16 solved the problem completely in Windows calibration and 90% in GPL. So it is my piece of shit SB PCI 128 that is the main culprit. Marc.

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>I have a new P II 333 with a vortex A3D soundcard and had exactly the same >problem when using my TM F1 wheel, (brand new, first one broke :-( ), using >the Microsoft Sidewinder standard joystick the jittering reduced >considerably, but was still apparent. >Both of these controllers worked fine with my old Compaq P166mmx with >onboard soundcard / gameport so I presume that the problem is not with the >wheel or j/stick, or even with GPL because I also had problems in F1 RS and >MGPRS2 where the car looked as though it was juddering down the road. > I spoke to Thrustmaster's technical helpline in the UK and they said that >it may be a speed issue between the PC and soundcard. >The resistance of the pots in the thrustmaster wheel are higher than the >Microsoft stick and the resistance also increases when turning the steering >to the left. What I found was that the jittering got worse the further to >the left I turned and improved to the right, so it seems as though the >higher the resistance the longer the port takes to read it which is

probably

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>causing the jittering. >I now use a Microsoft wheel which, due to it's digital control, has >eliminated the jittering >I don't know of any other way of solving this problem except maybe trying >different soundcards or gameports. >Ian Parker >>That makes sense... Do you have any idea what other things could cause

the

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>>jittering? My system is configured perfectly with no hardware or software >>conflicts of any kind...and I don't even have a modem in my machine! >>Marc. >>>Yes, I think that the pot can't report jitering values when you DON'T

even >>move >>>the wheel. It must be controller's fault imo.

I had a similar problem with steering wheel "shakiness" in GPL. After a little tinkering, I believe I have the problem solved and maybe my solution will help some other people having similar problems. My system goodies: homebrew steering wheel. I built my own steering wheel so I could have a very good unit without spending tons of money. Lately during GPL, however, I noticed I was getting a ton of "noise" while playing, which shows-up in GPL as shakey arms. I've always had a touch of noise, but never before was it bad enough to effect my driving. Luckily, building your own wheel has it's advantages. I dug out the multimeter and checked the pot on the wheel. It checked-out great, as it should have because it was a pretty good one and new. Hmmm, my system setup didn't change at all, what could cause this problem? My homebrew wheel is still in the late beta stage; it's about 90% finished but cold weather and GPL itself stopped work on the unit. Because of this, I didn't get around to installing the "stops" which stop the wheel from turning to it's extremities. When calibrating the wheel, I just make sure I don't turn the wheel more than a 180 degree arc. When checking the wheel with the multimeter, however, I noticed that the pot "ran out" before this. That is to say, you could still turn the pot, but the resistance did not get any greater, in fact it dropped a little. This was not easily visible from the calibration screen. I fixed this by adjusting the gearing enough so I can get a full 180 degrees of "good" travel. After all this tweaking, I hooked the wheel up to the computer and recalibrated it in GPL, using the generic driver, being careful not to overturn the wheel into the pot's dead zone. I then tried GPL and was happy to find out that things returned to normal- very slight tremor in the arms but not nearly what I was experiencing before. It seems the GPL joystick driver doesn't like flat resistance lines at the ends of the calibration loop? While I'm not a 100% positive this is where the problem lies, the above procedure helped me out a great deal. Obviously, most people can't adjust their wheels like I did, but maybe you should try calibrating the wheel while staying a little away from the stops. I would like to try out the DirectInput driver, but Win98 doesn't like the fact I'm skipping a pot; it wants to see 3 axes. The next neat trick is getting the PCI 128 to work with GPL without all those annoying pops and crackles. Took awhile, but I got that working as well. The PCI 128 isn't that bad a card once you get everything tweaked-out. -- Douglas Bollinger Mt. Holly Springs, PA 17065 Let not the sands of time get in your lunch.

I've been working on this problem and found one factor not mentioned in this thread...contamination. Using 'contact cleaner' does help reduce 'the shakes' temporarily and replacing the steering pot may improve it. When my second steering pot got as bad as the one that came with my TM Pro wheel after repeated use of contact cleaner, I disassembled the original pot to find the contact surface covered in a greasy goo. The contact surface was not worn. I wiped it clean, sprayed it with contact cleaner, wiped it dry, reassembled it, and sprayed it again. After extensive play in GPL the shakes have not returned and calibration shows steady smooth action. It appears that any foreign material on the contact surface of the steering pot plays havoc with the game port. Marty

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> My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight > tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits in > GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be getting > quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a > year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but the > problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with the > original pot. > What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad, too? > The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in the > last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a Voodoo > II. > Thanks, > Marc. > -- > **************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---" > General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864 > ****************************************************************************

> >>> I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new > >steering > >>> wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm > >>> considering. Sam, I mentioned this before, did you adjust the Options/Controls/Steering Linearity slider to the right, to the "non-linear" side. This is contrary to which seems to work for most, but works better for me with the PDPI TSW combination. Bill Yowell Remove "NOSPAM" to reply

I'm using a SB Awe 64. It never drifted like this with the TM GP1. I have not contacted Logitech, but I did down load their latest drivers. I'm not sure what their Profiler does that makes it so difficult to stay on the track. I tried all the settings, but things improved markedly when I got rid of it. I've also heard this from at lest two other Logitech owners since. Kevin

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>What sound card (or game port) are you using? I read about a drifting >problem with the Saitek wheel and they have a patch available....have you >contacted Logitech? >Marc >>I have Logitech Formula (non-force feedback) wheel, that does away with

all >>bouncing around of the calibration numbers I saw with my TM GP1. >>Unfortunately, I'm discovering the calibration is difficult to get centered >>(4 to 5 tries usually) and that it drifts when changing windows in GPL.

Interesting...mine was covered in "goo", too. Marc. >I've been working on this problem and found one factor not mentioned in this >thread...contamination. >Using 'contact cleaner' does help reduce 'the shakes' temporarily and replacing >the steering pot may improve it. When my second steering pot got as bad as the >one that came with my TM Pro wheel after repeated use of contact cleaner, I >disassembled the original pot to find the contact surface covered in a greasy >goo. The contact surface was not worn. I wiped it clean, sprayed it with contact >cleaner, wiped it dry, reassembled it, and sprayed it again. >After extensive play in GPL the shakes have not returned and calibration shows >steady smooth action. >It appears that any foreign material on the contact surface of the steering pot

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>plays havoc with the game port. >Marty >> My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight >> tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits

in >> GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be getting >> quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a >> year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but the >> problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with the >> original pot. >> What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad, too? >> The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in the

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>> last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a Voodoo >> II. >> Thanks, >> Marc. >> --

**************************************************************************** >> Marc Collins >> "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---" >> General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864 ****************************************************************************

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>>> My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight >>> tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits >in >>> GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be >getting >>> quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a >>> year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but >the >>> problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with >the >>> original pot. >>> What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad, >too? >>> The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in >the >>> last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a Voodoo >>> II. >>> Thanks, >>> Marc.

I dumped most of the shakes and regained control of the cars (with very helpful suggestions from W.Yowell and T. Quick) by calibrating in Generic rather than Direct and moving Linearity slider 2/3 right. My machine is PII 400, Monster2, 128RAM, PDPI L4 Gamecard, TSW GT contoller. I think my pots are 100K. I don't know what "Generic " means, but it seems to work. Under Direct I was getting control spikes and mega-shaking. If anyone can explain any of this to me, I am *** on your every word! "Go with throttle-up!" Sam

>I dumped most of the shakes and regained control of the cars (with >very helpful suggestions from W.Yowell and T. Quick) by calibrating in >Generic rather than Direct and moving Linearity slider 2/3 right. My >machine is PII 400, Monster2, 128RAM, PDPI L4 Gamecard, TSW GT >contoller. I think my pots are 100K. I don't know what "Generic " >means, but it seems to work. "Generic" is something of a misnomer here, IMO. It is the Papyrus-specific joystick driver which reads the gameport directly. It usually works great with standard joystick-type devices (up to four axis and four buttons, standard pots), but does not work with input devices that require special drivers or use a different technology (i.e. MS joysticks and wheels with "optical pots"). The biggest benefit of the "generic" driver is its greater range of input values. IIRC, the "direct" driver goes from -1000 to 1000 on a given axis, while the "generic" goes from -5000 to 5000, or thereabouts. The "direct" driver uses Win9x DirectX interface and has no problems with MS wheels etc., though. I don't claim to understand the shaking issue. As it seems, many things play a role in this problem, among them Win9x, the wheel/joystick hardware and probably even signal problems on the ISA/PCI busses. I can explain why moving the linearity slider more in the direction of "non-linear" helps, though. If your pot gives slightly erroneous readings around the center, say -10 to 10 without moving it, it is possible that this is translated into visible steering wheel motion when the slider is on the fully linear position. Once you go to a less linear setting, the sensitivity of the wheel around the center decreases and the program will ignore those slight variations. -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Generic vs. Direct makes no difference on my machine and no, I cannot move to non-linear (read dull and unrealistic) steering even if that did fix the problem. Of course, it wouldn't fix the problem, it would just dull it at wheel centre positions--the jittering would still be there when I turned the wheel to one side or the other. If you understand how the non-linear steering system works, you'll get why this is the case. If you want me to explain more, just ask. Thanks for your attempt to help, Marc. >>>> My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight >>>> tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits >>in >>>> GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be >>getting >>>> quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a

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>>>> year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but >>the >>>> problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with >>the >>>> original pot. >>>> What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad, >>too? >>>> The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in >>the >>>> last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a

Voodoo

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>>>> II. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Marc. >I dumped most of the shakes and regained control of the cars (with >very helpful suggestions from W.Yowell and T. Quick) by calibrating in >Generic rather than Direct and moving Linearity slider 2/3 right. My >machine is PII 400, Monster2, 128RAM, PDPI L4 Gamecard, TSW GT >contoller. I think my pots are 100K. I don't know what "Generic " >means, but it seems to work. Under Direct I was getting control spikes >and mega-shaking. If anyone can explain any of this to me, I am >hanging on your every word! >"Go with throttle-up!" >Sam

On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:08:08 -0500, "Marc Collins"

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>Generic vs. Direct makes no difference on my machine and no, I cannot move >to non-linear (read dull and unrealistic) steering even if that did fix the >problem. Of course, it wouldn't fix the problem, it would just dull it at >wheel centre positions--the jittering would still be there when I turned the >wheel to one side or the other. If you understand how the non-linear >steering system works, you'll get why this is the case. If you want me to >explain more, just ask. >Thanks for your attempt to help, >Marc.

Thanks for the info, folks, it does help. But what about the PDPI gamecard? Am I passing it up by using Generic, then? I'm trying to determine if I should keep it. Using Generic is kind of a pain as I have to re-calibrate every time I power up. Sam

Why do you have to recalibrate when you use the generic driver? I use it exclusively, and never have this problem. The only time a forced recalibration screen pops up is when I forget to plug in the wheel before starting GPL or leave plugged in a gamepad or other joystick. -- Douglas Bollinger Mt. Holly Springs, PA 17065 A witty saying proves nothing. -- Voltaire

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>> Thanks for the info, folks, it does help. But what about the PDPI >> gamecard? Am I passing it up by using Generic, then? I'm trying to >> determine if I should keep it. Using Generic is kind of a pain as I >> have to re-calibrate every time I power up. >> Sam >Why do you have to recalibrate when you use the generic driver? I >use it exclusively, and never have this problem. >The only time a forced recalibration screen pops up is when I forget >to plug in the wheel before starting GPL or leave plugged in a >gamepad or other joystick. >-- >Douglas Bollinger >Mt. Holly Springs, PA 17065

Doug: Don't know. My TSW is plugged into the PDPI L4 Gamecard. No other controllers plugged, and no other drivers enabled. When I power off, and come back, I have an immediate Direct Driver calibration screen which wants calibration. "Go with throttle up!" Sam

Shakes: I've decided to live with it on my Nascar SuperSport. I pretend it's just me struggling mightily with my beastly car. "Sorry, guv'--would've done better, but the handling's way off. Look at the telemetry!"

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>>> Thanks for the info, folks, it does help. But what about the PDPI >>> gamecard? Am I passing it up by using Generic, then? I'm trying to >>> determine if I should keep it. Using Generic is kind of a pain as I >>> have to re-calibrate every time I power up. >>> Sam >>Why do you have to recalibrate when you use the generic driver? I >>use it exclusively, and never have this problem. >>The only time a forced recalibration screen pops up is when I forget >>to plug in the wheel before starting GPL or leave plugged in a >>gamepad or other joystick. >>-- >>Douglas Bollinger >>Mt. Holly Springs, PA 17065 > Doug: >Don't know. My TSW is plugged into the PDPI L4 Gamecard. No other >controllers plugged, and no other drivers enabled. When I power off, >and come back, I have an immediate Direct Driver calibration screen >which wants calibration. >"Go with throttle up!" >Sam

Oh, I thought you where using the generic drivers via a traditional joystick port. The driver calibration screen you are seeing via direct X must be a PDPI feature. :) -- Douglas Bollinger Mt. Holly Springs, PA 17065 Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic