steering wheel

hI there I recently changed from a Digital Edge F1 Sim Compact, which was OK but had an annoying tendency to shift calibration as I drove, and the pedals were too basic. I decided to buy an MS FF wheel. I am very pleased. I don't know how good the force feedback is: the only games I tried (briefly) were the ***that came bundled with the wheel, and the Viper demo. Frankly it didn't seem very realistic, but I didn't get the pull to the left which some reviewers complain about. I am committed to GPL as as a) I was heavily into Jim Clark and Chris Amon when I was 12 years old (in 1967), and b) it wipes the floor with everything else (IMHO) in terms of fun, realism, skill, ongoing development of competence etc. I am an averagely good driver (not enough practice) with consistent 1.07s at the Glen, and consistent 1.30s at Monza. So I didn't need good FF, BUT the good thing about the MS wheel is with the Force switched on (and set to maximum in software) you get quite a nice progressive resistance to the wheel and a very positive return to centre. (It's a little bit noisy and grainy feeling but you get used to it quickly.) I am able to set my steering fully linear, and use 14% and 15% settings in my setups with ease. Wheel: comfortable, very nice grip material, good angle, simple clamping. Probably quite robust, although clearly not as tough and well engineered as TSW, EDDS etc. Paddles: these are a bit small but they are reachable with fingertips and are very positive. There are six programmable buttons on the front. I have them as follows: Left top to bottom: 1 - clutch, 2 - look left, 3 - raise arm; Right top to bottom: 4 - Esc, Return (to get back to the pits etc), 5 - look right, 6 - Shift R. The buttons are all easily reachable with the thumbs. Pedals: As they come, they are not vertical enough for me and they can slide around. The accelerator is fine: good spring tension, nice throw. The brake is unusable (by me) without modification. I have made the following simple changes: Half a squash ball (Dunlop yellow dot) fits beautifully (without glue!) under the brake pedal and completely transforms it. You need to calibrate it first with the full throw, then stick the squash ball in and you have a brake pedal you can push hard with just the right amount of travel and a progressive firming up. I have mounted the pedals, with double sided carpet tile tape, onto an angled MDF plinth, very simple just two bits of MDF screwed together, giving an incline of about 17%, and butted it up against the wall. This produces rock solid action at just the right angle. Complete construction and installation of this took about half an hour. Conclusion: whenever I change equipment I have to get used to the new kit, and that was true of this wheel, but overall I'm very happy with the MS FF and my time are improving. I'm looking forward to my first sub 1m06 at the Glen and my first sub 1m26 at Zandvoort! Tim Leighton >Hey there, >i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while. What does >everyone think about it?

>Hey there, >i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while. What does >everyone think about it? Is it good force feedback? How are the pedals? I gave the wheel a test spin about 3 months ago. I took it back to the store because of the problems I (and everyone else) had getting it to calibrate in NR1999 (DOS). However I gave it a spin in F1RS and CPR (the latter comes with the wheel). These are the best pedals on the market. I never had any problems with them movine at all. They are more vertical & very comfortable for me. I is a gigantic swing arm clamp which is top rate. I had to remove my keyboard drawer to get it to work. Wheel yes, pedals *NO*. I did not like them at all. In fact I probably would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something" in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me. You never asked about FF effects!!!!! The FF in F1RS is absolut top rate. It was exactly what I was looking for. The trick is to set autocenter to 1/4. Then you can feel the wheel loosen up when your front tires lose traction. The wheel will tighten up as you gain adhesion. Also as I said in the GPL thread, I crashed and "burst" one of my front tires. I was completely shocked at the awesome FF effect for this. So my opinion of FF in F1RS is that it was an awesome "experience". Couple that with 3D positional sound and you have one heck of a game :-) I had to get that in there... Oh also these FF effects should make driving in the rain better as you can tell if you have adhesion or not :-) Haha. FF in CPR: You would expect the game that came with the wheel to kick some ***(I certainly did). Well the FF in CPR sucks as bad as the CPR game itself. Every FF effect seemed like a major shunt impact type of thing. The game was just horrible. Probably worse than Nascar Revolution. Well that's it. Hopefully you foind some useful advice here. I am still not sure what I am going to do for a FF wheel. I suppose I am going to wait for N3 (which damn well better use those digital wheel/ controllers) then make a decision. I do think the Logitech wheel is the best looking of the bunch, and it feels awesome. The only problem is that I heard many people complain about light FF effects and cheap crappy pedals. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Well I'm not into the dos version of NR1999 so I think ill be just fine. CPR was made a year and a half ago and at that time, they only had force feedback joysticks and the technology really sucked. Now It seems to be getting a little better. I have the full viper racing and F1rs both I lost interest because they were too unrealistic for me, but I hear that viper (and from you f1rs) are totally a different game with FF. Sounds pretty good. Jesse

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>>Hey there, >>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while. What does >>everyone think about it? Is it good force feedback? How are the pedals? >I gave the wheel a test spin about 3 months ago. I took it back to the >store because of the problems I (and everyone else) had getting it to >calibrate in NR1999 (DOS). However I gave it a spin in F1RS and CPR >(the latter comes with the wheel). >>Are they vertical or horizontal? Is the base well designed and heavy >enough >>to stay down? >These are the best pedals on the market. I never had any problems with >them movine at all. They are more vertical & very comfortable for me. >>Hows the clamping system. >I is a gigantic swing arm clamp which is top rate. I had to remove my >keyboard drawer to get it to work. >>Does the wheel have the right feel >>to it? Are the paddles good? >Wheel yes, pedals *NO*. I did not like them at all. In fact I probably >would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found >it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while >driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very >difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel >would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something" >in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me. >>Just a general review and maybe a comparison >>to other wheels. I am also looking at the act labs force wheel but not >sure >>which to go by. I can get the MS FF for cheaper though. >You never asked about FF effects!!!!! The FF in F1RS is absolut top >rate. It was exactly what I was looking for. The trick is to set autocenter >to 1/4. Then you can feel the wheel loosen up when your front tires >lose traction. The wheel will tighten up as you gain adhesion. Also >as I said in the GPL thread, I crashed and "burst" one of my front tires. >I was completely shocked at the awesome FF effect for this. So my >opinion of FF in F1RS is that it was an awesome "experience". >Couple that with 3D positional sound and you have one heck of >a game :-) I had to get that in there... Oh also these FF effects >should make driving in the rain better as you can tell if you have >adhesion or not :-) Haha. >FF in CPR: You would expect the game that came with the >wheel to kick some ***(I certainly did). Well the FF in CPR >sucks as bad as the CPR game itself. Every FF effect seemed >like a major shunt impact type of thing. The game was just horrible. >Probably worse than Nascar Revolution. >Well that's it. Hopefully you foind some useful advice here. I am still >not sure what I am going to do for a FF wheel. I suppose I am going >to wait for N3 (which damn well better use those digital wheel/ >controllers) then make a decision. I do think the Logitech wheel >is the best looking of the bunch, and it feels awesome. The only >problem is that I heard many people complain about light FF >effects and cheap crappy pedals. >-- >Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

I didnt know you could program the buttons like that. Man I bet the shift-r button comes in handy a lot huh. I think id end up putting one as escape and one as return so that when I leave the track, i could join just as easily. Jesse

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>hI there >I recently changed from a Digital Edge F1 Sim Compact, which was OK but had >an annoying tendency to shift calibration as I drove, and the pedals were >too basic. I decided to buy an MS FF wheel. I am very pleased. >I don't know how good the force feedback is: the only games I tried >(briefly) were the ***that came bundled with the wheel, and the Viper >demo. Frankly it didn't seem very realistic, but I didn't get the pull to >the left which some reviewers complain about. >I am committed to GPL as as a) I was heavily into Jim Clark and Chris Amon >when I was 12 years old (in 1967), and b) it wipes the floor with

everything >else (IMHO) in terms of fun, realism, skill, ongoing development of >competence etc. I am an averagely good driver (not enough practice) with >consistent 1.07s at the Glen, and consistent 1.30s at Monza. >So I didn't need good FF, BUT the good thing about the MS wheel is with the >Force switched on (and set to maximum in software) you get quite a nice >progressive resistance to the wheel and a very positive return to centre. >(It's a little bit noisy and grainy feeling but you get used to it quickly.)

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>I am able to set my steering fully linear, and use 14% and 15% settings in >my setups with ease. >Wheel: comfortable, very nice grip material, good angle, simple clamping. >Probably quite robust, although clearly not as tough and well engineered as >TSW, EDDS etc. >Paddles: these are a bit small but they are reachable with fingertips and >are very positive. There are six programmable buttons on the front. I have >them as follows: Left top to bottom: 1 - clutch, 2 - look left, 3 - raise >arm; Right top to bottom: 4 - Esc, Return (to get back to the pits etc),

5 - >look right, 6 - Shift R. The buttons are all easily reachable with the >thumbs. >Pedals: As they come, they are not vertical enough for me and they can slide

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>around. The accelerator is fine: good spring tension, nice throw. The brake >is unusable (by me) without modification. I have made the following simple >changes: Half a squash ball (Dunlop yellow dot) fits beautifully (without >glue!) under the brake pedal and completely transforms it. You need to >calibrate it first with the full throw, then stick the squash ball in and >you have a brake pedal you can push hard with just the right amount of >travel and a progressive firming up. I have mounted the pedals, with double >sided carpet tile tape, onto an angled MDF plinth, very simple just two

bits

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>of MDF screwed together, giving an incline of about 17%, and butted it up >against the wall. This produces rock solid action at just the right angle. >Complete construction and installation of this took about half an hour. >Conclusion: whenever I change equipment I have to get used to the new kit, >and that was true of this wheel, but overall I'm very happy with the MS FF >and my time are improving. I'm looking forward to my first sub 1m06 at the >Glen and my first sub 1m26 at Zandvoort! >Tim Leighton >>Hey there, >>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while. What does >>everyone think about it?

>I didnt know you could program the buttons like that. Man I bet the shift-r >button comes in handy a lot huh. I think id end up putting one as escape Yes the programing utility is really cool. You can easily program a profile for each game and when hte game is run from withing Windows EVERY button and lever is programable. I was very surprised that they had a profile for Nascar Racing 2. I would have thought that they would know it doesn't work. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >and one as return so that when I leave the track, i could join just as >easily. >Jesse >>hI there >>I recently changed from a Digital Edge F1 Sim Compact, which was OK but had >>an annoying tendency to shift calibration as I drove, and the pedals were >>too basic. I decided to buy an MS FF wheel. I am very pleased. >>I don't know how good the force feedback is: the only games I tried >>(briefly) were the ***that came bundled with the wheel, and the Viper >>demo. Frankly it didn't seem very realistic, but I didn't get the pull to >>the left which some reviewers complain about. >>I am committed to GPL as as a) I was heavily into Jim Clark and Chris Amon >>when I was 12 years old (in 1967), and b) it wipes the floor with >everything >>else (IMHO) in terms of fun, realism, skill, ongoing development of >>competence etc. I am an averagely good driver (not enough practice) with >>consistent 1.07s at the Glen, and consistent 1.30s at Monza. >>So I didn't need good FF, BUT the good thing about the MS wheel is with >the >>Force switched on (and set to maximum in software) you get quite a nice >>progressive resistance to the wheel and a very positive return to centre. >>(It's a little bit noisy and grainy feeling but you get used to it >quickly.) >>I am able to set my steering fully linear, and use 14% and 15% settings in >>my setups with ease. >>Wheel: comfortable, very nice grip material, good angle, simple clamping. >>Probably quite robust, although clearly not as tough and well engineered as >>TSW, EDDS etc. >>Paddles: these are a bit small but they are reachable with fingertips and >>are very positive. There are six programmable buttons on the front. I have >>them as follows: Left top to bottom: 1 - clutch, 2 - look left, 3 - raise >>arm; Right top to bottom: 4 - Esc, Return (to get back to the pits etc), >5 - >>look right, 6 - Shift R. The buttons are all easily reachable with the >>thumbs. >>Pedals: As they come, they are not vertical enough for me and they can >slide >>around. The accelerator is fine: good spring tension, nice throw. The brake >>is unusable (by me) without modification. I have made the following simple >>changes: Half a squash ball (Dunlop yellow dot) fits beautifully (without >>glue!) under the brake pedal and completely transforms it. You need to >>calibrate it first with the full throw, then stick the squash ball in and >>you have a brake pedal you can push hard with just the right amount of >>travel and a progressive firming up. I have mounted the pedals, with double >>sided carpet tile tape, onto an angled MDF plinth, very simple just two >bits >>of MDF screwed together, giving an incline of about 17%, and butted it up >>against the wall. This produces rock solid action at just the right angle. >>Complete construction and installation of this took about half an hour. >>Conclusion: whenever I change equipment I have to get used to the new kit, >>and that was true of this wheel, but overall I'm very happy with the MS FF >>and my time are improving. I'm looking forward to my first sub 1m06 at the >>Glen and my first sub 1m26 at Zandvoort! >>Tim Leighton >>>Hey there, >>>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while. What does >>>everyone think about it?

>Well I'm not into the dos version of NR1999 so I think ill be just fine. >CPR was made a year and a half ago and at that time, they only had force >feedback joysticks and the technology really sucked. Now It seems to be >getting a little better. I have the full viper racing and F1rs both I lost >interest because they were too unrealistic for me, but I hear that viper F1RS unrealistic? Haha that is a good one alright. Oh boy here we go again. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >(and from you f1rs) are totally a different game with FF. >Sounds pretty good. >Jesse >>>Hey there, >>>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while. What does >>>everyone think about it? Is it good force feedback? How are the pedals? >>I gave the wheel a test spin about 3 months ago. I took it back to the >>store because of the problems I (and everyone else) had getting it to >>calibrate in NR1999 (DOS). However I gave it a spin in F1RS and CPR >>(the latter comes with the wheel). >>>Are they vertical or horizontal? Is the base well designed and heavy >>enough >>>to stay down? >>These are the best pedals on the market. I never had any problems with >>them movine at all. They are more vertical & very comfortable for me. >>>Hows the clamping system. >>I is a gigantic swing arm clamp which is top rate. I had to remove my >>keyboard drawer to get it to work. >>>Does the wheel have the right feel >>>to it? Are the paddles good? >>Wheel yes, pedals *NO*. I did not like them at all. In fact I probably >>would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found >>it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while >>driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very >>difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel >>would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something" >>in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me. >>>Just a general review and maybe a comparison >>>to other wheels. I am also looking at the act labs force wheel but not >>sure >>>which to go by. I can get the MS FF for cheaper though. >>You never asked about FF effects!!!!! The FF in F1RS is absolut top >>rate. It was exactly what I was looking for. The trick is to set autocenter >>to 1/4. Then you can feel the wheel loosen up when your front tires >>lose traction. The wheel will tighten up as you gain adhesion. Also >>as I said in the GPL thread, I crashed and "burst" one of my front tires. >>I was completely shocked at the awesome FF effect for this. So my >>opinion of FF in F1RS is that it was an awesome "experience". >>Couple that with 3D positional sound and you have one heck of >>a game :-) I had to get that in there... Oh also these FF effects >>should make driving in the rain better as you can tell if you have >>adhesion or not :-) Haha. >>FF in CPR: You would expect the game that came with the >>wheel to kick some ***(I certainly did). Well the FF in CPR >>sucks as bad as the CPR game itself. Every FF effect seemed >>like a major shunt impact type of thing. The game was just horrible. >>Probably worse than Nascar Revolution. >>Well that's it. Hopefully you foind some useful advice here. I am still >>not sure what I am going to do for a FF wheel. I suppose I am going >>to wait for N3 (which damn well better use those digital wheel/ >>controllers) then make a decision. I do think the Logitech wheel >>is the best looking of the bunch, and it feels awesome. The only >>problem is that I heard many people complain about light FF >>effects and cheap crappy pedals. >>-- >>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Hi Jesse and Greg I know what Greg means about the paddles, but the trick is to just push the edge of the paddle with middle and third fingertips (I have quite small hands) rather than try to get your fingertips right into the hollow behind the paddles. Also, there seems potential to easily enlarge the paddles with suitable material and some superglue, although I know not everybody wants to tinker with a product. However it seems all the wheels produced so far have some flaws, and I certainly recommend Jesse gives the MS a trial. Tim

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>>Does the wheel have the right feel >>to it? Are the paddles good? >Wheel yes, paddles *NO*. I did not like them at all. In fact I probably >would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found >it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while >driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very >difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel >would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something" >in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me.

man that is my opinion. I was expecting much more from it. The graphics kick some ass and it runs real fast on my P2 350 voodoo2 12MB but the physics werent what i had expected. They seemed just like all other playstation F1 games ive played. There seems to be a limit right now on physics models. GPL is the only highly sophisticated physics model and the rest are all closely similar to each other which is far behind GPL. Now im not saying that they are bad, i still enjoy going out and running around in all of these games because you dont need to be in a certain mood or have a certain mindset on. In gpl you have to use your full brain, in all others, just half or a quarter. They are all great games but the physics have a long way to go until they are realistic. Jesse PS just one example, the other day i went into a turn way too hot and thought i was gonna go off but then i just slammed on teh brakes and kept it on the track, i hit the brakes like at the apex (where it was supposed to be) and it still made it. Now that is not what i call realistic. You dont get punished for your mistakes, I guess what im saying is that the brakes work too good. I dont want to be able to stop near a dime like in all the games. Well thats my opinion, come on back with your argument how much it is realistic. I still wont agree cause this is what i found out about it when i drove it, sorry. >>Well I'm not into the dos version of NR1999 so I think ill be just fine. >>CPR was made a year and a half ago and at that time, they only had force >>feedback joysticks and the technology really sucked. Now It seems to be >>getting a little better. I have the full viper racing and F1rs both I lost

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>>interest because they were too unrealistic for me, but I hear that viper >F1RS unrealistic? Haha that is a good one alright. >Oh boy here we go again. >-- >Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >>(and from you f1rs) are totally a different game with FF. >>Sounds pretty good. >>Jesse >>>>Hey there, >>>>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while. What does >>>>everyone think about it? Is it good force feedback? How are the

pedals?

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>>>I gave the wheel a test spin about 3 months ago. I took it back to the >>>store because of the problems I (and everyone else) had getting it to >>>calibrate in NR1999 (DOS). However I gave it a spin in F1RS and CPR >>>(the latter comes with the wheel). >>>>Are they vertical or horizontal? Is the base well designed and heavy >>>enough >>>>to stay down? >>>These are the best pedals on the market. I never had any problems with >>>them movine at all. They are more vertical & very comfortable for me. >>>>Hows the clamping system. >>>I is a gigantic swing arm clamp which is top rate. I had to remove my >>>keyboard drawer to get it to work. >>>>Does the wheel have the right feel >>>>to it? Are the paddles good? >>>Wheel yes, pedals *NO*. I did not like them at all. In fact I probably >>>would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found >>>it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while >>>driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very >>>difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel >>>would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something" >>>in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me. >>>>Just a general review and maybe a comparison >>>>to other wheels. I am also looking at the act labs force wheel but not >>>sure >>>>which to go by. I can get the MS FF for cheaper though. >>>You never asked about FF effects!!!!! The FF in F1RS is absolut top >>>rate. It was exactly what I was looking for. The trick is to set >autocenter >>>to 1/4. Then you can feel the wheel loosen up when your front tires >>>lose traction. The wheel will tighten up as you gain adhesion. Also >>>as I said in the GPL thread, I crashed and "burst" one of my front tires. >>>I was completely shocked at the awesome FF effect for this. So my >>>opinion of FF in F1RS is that it was an awesome "experience". >>>Couple that with 3D positional sound and you have one heck of >>>a game :-) I had to get that in there... Oh also these FF effects >>>should make driving in the rain better as you can tell if you have >>>adhesion or not :-) Haha. >>>FF in CPR: You would expect the game that came with the >>>wheel to kick some ***(I certainly did). Well the FF in CPR >>>sucks as bad as the CPR game itself. Every FF effect seemed >>>like a major shunt impact type of thing. The game was just horrible. >>>Probably worse than Nascar Revolution. >>>Well that's it. Hopefully you foind some useful advice here. I am still >>>not sure what I am going to do for a FF wheel. I suppose I am going >>>to wait for N3 (which damn well better use those digital wheel/ >>>controllers) then make a decision. I do think the Logitech wheel >>>is the best looking of the bunch, and it feels awesome. The only >>>problem is that I heard many people complain about light FF >>>effects and cheap crappy pedals. >>>-- >>>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >>>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

oh yeah, PS, im sure that with FF ill change my mind because of how much more deapth will be added. >>Well I'm not into the dos version of NR1999 so I think ill be just fine. >>CPR was made a year and a half ago and at that time, they only had force >>feedback joysticks and the technology really sucked. Now It seems to be >>getting a little better. I have the full viper racing and F1rs both I lost

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>>interest because they were too unrealistic for me, but I hear that viper >F1RS unrealistic? Haha that is a good one alright. >Oh boy here we go again. >-- >Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com >>(and from you f1rs) are totally a different game with FF. >>Sounds pretty good. >>Jesse >>>>Hey there, >>>>i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while. What does >>>>everyone think about it? Is it good force feedback? How are the

pedals?

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>>>I gave the wheel a test spin about 3 months ago. I took it back to the >>>store because of the problems I (and everyone else) had getting it to >>>calibrate in NR1999 (DOS). However I gave it a spin in F1RS and CPR >>>(the latter comes with the wheel). >>>>Are they vertical or horizontal? Is the base well designed and heavy >>>enough >>>>to stay down? >>>These are the best pedals on the market. I never had any problems with >>>them movine at all. They are more vertical & very comfortable for me. >>>>Hows the clamping system. >>>I is a gigantic swing arm clamp which is top rate. I had to remove my >>>keyboard drawer to get it to work. >>>>Does the wheel have the right feel >>>>to it? Are the paddles good? >>>Wheel yes, pedals *NO*. I did not like them at all. In fact I probably >>>would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found >>>it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while >>>driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very >>>difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel >>>would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something" >>>in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me. >>>>Just a general review and maybe a comparison >>>>to other wheels. I am also looking at the act labs force wheel but not >>>sure >>>>which to go by. I can get the MS FF for cheaper though. >>>You never asked about FF effects!!!!! The FF in F1RS is absolut top >>>rate. It was exactly what I was looking for. The trick is to set >autocenter >>>to 1/4. Then you can feel the wheel loosen up when your front tires >>>lose traction. The wheel will tighten up as you gain adhesion. Also >>>as I said in the GPL thread, I crashed and "burst" one of my front tires. >>>I was completely shocked at the awesome FF effect for this. So my >>>opinion of FF in F1RS is that it was an awesome "experience". >>>Couple that with 3D positional sound and you have one heck of >>>a game :-) I had to get that in there... Oh also these FF effects >>>should make driving in the rain better as you can tell if you have >>>adhesion or not :-) Haha. >>>FF in CPR: You would expect the game that came with the >>>wheel to kick some ***(I certainly did). Well the FF in CPR >>>sucks as bad as the CPR game itself. Every FF effect seemed >>>like a major shunt impact type of thing. The game was just horrible. >>>Probably worse than Nascar Revolution. >>>Well that's it. Hopefully you foind some useful advice here. I am still >>>not sure what I am going to do for a FF wheel. I suppose I am going >>>to wait for N3 (which damn well better use those digital wheel/ >>>controllers) then make a decision. I do think the Logitech wheel >>>is the best looking of the bunch, and it feels awesome. The only >>>problem is that I heard many people complain about light FF >>>effects and cheap crappy pedals. >>>-- >>>Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. >>>cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>physics werent what i had expected. They seemed just like all other >playstation F1 games ive played. There seems to be a limit right now on F1RS doesn't seem like a playstation game to me. In fact I had psygnosis F1 and Power F1 and there is absolutely no similarity with F1RS. The only game(s) close was GP2 and World Circuit. Well when I do that my tires lock up and I go off (depending on the momentum I am carrying) , so I have no concept of what you are referring to. Also racing in the rain is um... pretty darn believable. You can setup your car for rain conditions with max wing so you stay on the track. Then you tweak to get more top speed. Then you must adjust your braking/driving or you over shoot your slippery turns. I don't know. It may not be perfect and do quantum mechanics but F1RS is far from a Playstation toy game. You make it sound like simply applying the brakes (even at the apex) will save you when you going in the turn too fast. No way. At least not in illinois. I have also noticed that if I am going into a turn too hot, I have a shot of not overshooting if I pump the brakes allot. In fact if you do this properly you can drasticly reduce your braking distance. But it is too difficult to do all the time. Also, you wouldn't have braking help on or any other driving aids (would you)? To be honest that is what it seems like you are describing. I have read many people here claim F1RS is too difficult to drive without some driving aids. That is simply ridiculous. You most certainly do. At least I am punished by mistakes. That certainly doesn't happen to me. You sound like you are describing Psygnosis F1. That game had brakes that were way too good. Just taking you foot off the accelerator started the braking action. Hey no problem. If that is what you want to believe that is fine by me. For me if I brake too heavily when I am carrying too much momentum (almost sound like physics or something) I lock up the tires and go off. You apparently stop too quickly and do not go off at all. I guess I am not sure what to make about that. Also... I am sure you are aware that modern F1 cars have far shorter braking distance than just about any other type of automobile. Including the late 1960's era F1 cars :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Hey there, i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while. What does everyone think about it? Is it good force feedback? How are the pedals? Are they vertical or horizontal? Is the base well designed and heavy enough to stay down? Hows the clamping system. Does the wheel have the right feel to it? Are the paddles good? Just a general review and maybe a comparison to other wheels. I am also looking at the act labs force wheel but not sure which to go by. I can get the MS FF for cheaper though. Jesse

I use a per4mer wheel which i set to 30 degrees. It has buttons behind the wheel for gears and I find it great for NASCAR and ICR2. Will WWW.willsplace.freeserve.co.uk >Hi Jesse and Greg >I know what Greg means about the paddles, but the trick is to just push the >edge of the paddle with middle and third fingertips (I have quite small >hands) rather than try to get your fingertips right into the hollow behind >the paddles. Also, there seems potential to easily enlarge the paddles with >suitable material and some superglue, although I know not everybody wants to

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>tinker with a product. However it seems all the wheels produced so far have >some flaws, and I certainly recommend Jesse gives the MS a trial. >Tim >>>Does the wheel have the right feel >>>to it? Are the paddles good? >>Wheel yes, paddles *NO*. I did not like them at all. In fact I probably >>would have returned the unit even if it worked with NR1999. I found >>it very awkward to drive and keep your fingers on the paddles while >>driving in F1RS at Suzuka. The constant shifting required was very >>difficult as the paddles are not very ergonimic. The Logitech wheel >>would be much better in this respect. I actually snapped "something" >>in both of my wrists while driving F1RS. Very bad at least for me.

I think the pedals are great. I have one complaint. The paddles are _way_ too short and hard to reach, especially if you are in a turn. Other than that, it works great and feels great. Personally, I think the pedals are perfect. One word of warning. If you do N2/NROS, you are out of luck. These games don't work with digital controllers. -larry

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> i have been looking into getting the MS FF wheel for a while. What does > everyone think about it? Is it good force feedback? How are the pedals? > Are they vertical or horizontal? Is the base well designed and heavy enough > to stay down? Hows the clamping system. Does the wheel have the right feel > to it? Are the paddles good? Just a general review and maybe a comparison > to other wheels. I am also looking at the act labs force wheel but not sure > which to go by. I can get the MS FF for cheaper though. > Jesse

Will, do you like spam and want to collect? ;-) Jens On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:09:32 -0000, "Peter Bowman"

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>I use a per4mer wheel which i set to 30 degrees. It has buttons behind the >wheel for gears and I find it great for NASCAR and ICR2. >Will >WWW.willsplace.freeserve.co.uk

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