GPL-tires heating too much

I have started racing the Lotus lately and tonight I stumbled onto something that I didnt think happened in GPL.After 10 laps at the Glen my car would start sliding on right hand turns.Braking and accelaration suffer too.Crashing is inevitable.After 4 restarts I decide to look at my tire temps and they are reading 270deg for the left/rear and 260 for the left/front.So I start taking it real easy,trying to stay behind the lead car to serve as a reference for how quick to take the turns.I turn the front wheel as little as possible and am actually easing off the throttle when I need the car to turn more instead of more lock.I am also trying for the least amount of tire squeal I can possibly do.I am only doing lap averages of 1:06:XX with occasional dips to the 5's.The best out their are doing low4's so I cant see how Im pushing the car too hard.I am using the default Lotus setups with gear,brake and ride height changes only.Is it because you just cant run 17 laps in the 6's.The really fast are doing low 4's at the Glen.Do they race at those times or is this a hotlap setup only kind of thing??One thing I am noticing is how you start to really sense the car on its edge of traction with practice even with the limited tire squeal sounds GPL has.Tire overheating and its affecting grip levels has probably happened to me before and I just never noticed it. Skeeter

.So I start taking it real More lock does not mean the car will actaully Turn more. At some point the car will only scrub speed and heat tires up. If you are beyond the proper slip angle and the tires is not addressing the road properly, you will basically not go any faster and really chew up tires. This is true in GPL and in my real race car. Its a wierd concept, and very hard to learn and do. If car is understeering a lot of times steering more will not make car turn better, but by letting out some lock will actaully make the car go thru turn faster. Remember you may only need to let out a little bit. In my real race car it has been so dramatic that at a Autocross I was fighting understeer really bad in one corner and finally let out some steering lock. The car scooted thru the corner some much faster i was not even on the gas at apex. I am also trying for the least You can do 17 laps in thte 105 range, you just need to be smooth with the car. the BRM is the only car that I have had problems getting 17 laps out of and my lap times were within a second of eachother. The BRM will really teach you how to conserve tires, since its so heavy and will use tires up fast. -- David Robinson Egan's Law The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first gear.

You make a great point. All teh guys that run the hard setups cant run them for long due to tire wear. I never thought of it because GPL simply doesnt have tire wear, just temps. That is also how it is in real life, stiff suspension handles great but tears up the tires, so maybe GPL is really modeling everything correctly (well maybe not the toein/out maximums). I guess that also shows why at a race at silverstone my braking kept getting worse and worse and I started going wider and wider in my 30 lap race, finally found some strategy for those long races. Jesse

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>> I have started racing the Lotus lately and tonight I stumbled onto >>something that I didnt think happened in GPL.After 10 laps at the Glen >>my car would start sliding on right hand turns.Braking and >>accelaration suffer too.Crashing is inevitable.After 4 restarts I >>decide to look at my tire temps and they are reading 270deg for the >>left/rear and 260 for the left/front.So I start taking it real >260 degrees shouldn't have your car sliding too much. 300 degrees is >the limit. At that temprature, your car becomes undrivable. It is very >abrupt too. Get one tyre temp to 300 and you'll immediatley start >doing spins while cornering. >The primary reason why you would get it to 300 is running front and >rear bars at 200 on a twisty circuit. 200 f+b at monza or spa is ok, >cause the tyres cool down on the straights, but at zandy, they >overheat within a few laps. >At a place like zandy, monaco, watkins glen, the maximum rollbart that >can be run without overheating is 150 f+b. >>easy,trying to stay behind the lead car to serve as a reference for >>how quick to take the turns.I turn the front wheel as little as >>possible and am actually easing off the throttle when I need the car >>to turn more instead of more lock.I am also trying for the least >This will help, and it's most noticalble at a place like monaco. >During braking for the hairpins, you can pull on some lock, but your >car won't turn in till you have scrubbed the speed off. I believe it >may even increase braking distance, cause your fronts are now sliding >instead of being on the braking threshold of grip.. >Therefore it usually is better to wait till you can turn with grip, >rather than power it though, sliding all the way...off the track :) >>amount of tire squeal I can possibly do.I am only doing lap averages >>of 1:06:XX with occasional dips to the 5's.The best out their are >>doing low4's so I cant see how Im pushing the car too hard.I am using >>the default Lotus setups with gear,brake and ride height changes >>only.Is it because you just cant run 17 laps in the 6's.The really >>fast are doing low 4's at the Glen.Do they race at those times or is >>this a hotlap setup only kind of thing??One thing I am noticing is how >I can only speak for my own experiences, but all my "hotlap" setups >are actually race setups. The exception being my zandvoort setup. The >zandy setup is only a hotlap setup, and is exceptional hard to >control, even for me :) >In most races, we run consistant laps within about 1/2 a second of the >WR. The exceptions being the long tracks such as spa and the ring. >A quick idea of what i mean, in the GPLWS race at watkins glen race >number 2, I did four***, 1m04s laps, with the best being 1m04s10. The >other few where a 1m09(start lap) 2 1m05's and a 1m06. And I still got >beaten by wolfgang by 0.27secs :) >>you start to really sense the car on its edge of traction with >>practice even with the limited tire squeal sounds GPL has.Tire >>overheating and its affecting grip levels has probably happened to me >>before and I just never noticed it. >Sensing traction, is mainly by sound. You can make the tires squeal >quite alot, and that is where the most speed is. If you watch one of >my hotlaps, you will see how on the edge I am, and during races, I am >quite close to that lap, every lap. >Ian Lake >/\ Smooth is fast! [link lost in import: /\] >>Skeeter

> I have started racing the Lotus lately and tonight I stumbled onto >something that I didnt think happened in GPL.After 10 laps at the Glen >my car would start sliding on right hand turns.Braking and >accelaration suffer too.Crashing is inevitable.After 4 restarts I >decide to look at my tire temps and they are reading 270deg for the >left/rear and 260 for the left/front.So I start taking it real 260 degrees shouldn't have your car sliding too much. 300 degrees is the limit. At that temprature, your car becomes undrivable. It is very abrupt too. Get one tyre temp to 300 and you'll immediatley start doing spins while cornering. The primary reason why you would get it to 300 is running front and rear bars at 200 on a twisty circuit. 200 f+b at monza or spa is ok, cause the tyres cool down on the straights, but at zandy, they overheat within a few laps. At a place like zandy, monaco, watkins glen, the maximum rollbart that can be run without overheating is 150 f+b. This will help, and it's most noticalble at a place like monaco. During braking for the hairpins, you can pull on some lock, but your car won't turn in till you have scrubbed the speed off. I believe it may even increase braking distance, cause your fronts are now sliding instead of being on the braking threshold of grip.. Therefore it usually is better to wait till you can turn with grip, rather than power it though, sliding all the way...off the track :) I can only speak for my own experiences, but all my "hotlap" setups are actually race setups. The exception being my zandvoort setup. The zandy setup is only a hotlap setup, and is exceptional hard to control, even for me :) In most races, we run consistant laps within about 1/2 a second of the WR. The exceptions being the long tracks such as spa and the ring. A quick idea of what i mean, in the GPLWS race at watkins glen race number 2, I did four***, 1m04s laps, with the best being 1m04s10. The other few where a 1m09(start lap) 2 1m05's and a 1m06. And I still got beaten by wolfgang by 0.27secs :) Sensing traction, is mainly by sound. You can make the tires squeal quite alot, and that is where the most speed is. If you watch one of my hotlaps, you will see how on the edge I am, and during races, I am quite close to that lap, every lap. Ian Lake /\ Smooth is fast! [link lost in import: /\]

Yes,this has been what I was doing.Everytime I release the throttle I ease off the lock alittle since the weight has transfered foward slightly.I have placed a piece of tape on my monitor and have painted my***pits to have a white line down the centers.This allows me to see the***pit shift better.How this helps is,without concentrating on it,I only turn the wheel enough until I see the***pit line shift off the center line on my monitor.This gives me a good sense of the car taking set and then I feather my steering from this point.The tape has really helped me in that before I was using way too much steering lock for the turns since these cars dont turn-in well and I figured this was because I wasnt using enough lock. Wow is all I can say.I have all of a sudden been doing consistent 5"s,same track,car,setup and race length.Not too much tire squeal and a perfect entrance to the ninety did it for me:))Thansks for the suggestions. Skeeter

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>> I have started racing the Lotus lately and tonight I stumbled onto >>something that I didnt think happened in GPL.After 10 laps at the Glen >>my car would start sliding on right hand turns.Braking and >>accelaration suffer too.Crashing is inevitable.After 4 restarts I >>decide to look at my tire temps and they are reading 270deg for the >>left/rear and 260 for the left/front.So I start taking it real >260 degrees shouldn't have your car sliding too much. 300 degrees is >the limit. At that temprature, your car becomes undrivable. It is very >abrupt too. Get one tyre temp to 300 and you'll immediatley start >doing spins while cornering.

Yes your right that 260 is driveable but you need to be able to feel these difeences to adjust to it.I hit 300temp and the car would not accept any power. Yes in a real car you will be able to feel this effect of the car not turning in because all your tires available traction is being used for braking.In a sim we cant feel this just yet.Since feeling this effect is impossible with todays sims I notice alot of GPL cars understeering heavily into turns because of too much braking force.Excellent FFB will cure this since easing off the brake will make the steering start to grip and well be better able to ride this edge of front tire traction:) I like to turn -in and then release the brakes to try to get some turning traction. Sounds to me like a blast.I am finding that as I improve I am enjoying racing the AI more and more.I now look in my mirrors and try to think strategy.I feel the best way to get really good at GPL is to get your times down low so the AI is doing super fastlaps then trying to come off corners faster than them.My polesitting AI qualified with a 1:04:XX.I stayed behind him and can get a very good sense of what makes me come off a corner faster.I set my fastest time at the Glen tonight by doing just this.By Pointing the car towards his inside I could get on the power just that much more quicker and pass him for my ultimate time of 1:05:01:)) Yes I noticed this alot by watching dave Mansell's hotlaps.He takes his car so hot into turns that you hear his rear squealing most of the time thru it.I am gonna check out some of your times tonight. Skeeter

Hehe me too.GPL is not totally realistic in terms of car setups and there is much room for improvement.I have noticed many faults in the GPL garage.This doesntreally matter in racing the cars though since its just numbers in the garage and you whats supposed to happen by changing a setup option actually happens..The fact that you can go from a 5in ride height down to a 1in and have the tire temps remain the same on both sides of the car is dead wrong.In real life the higher trhe center of gravity the more weight will transfer so the outside tires will go overload andthe inside will not be used as much.The net effect of this is less overall grip.Lower ride height means less weight transfer and your inside tires have more weight to grip with.This doesnt really matter because in GPL the car behaves like it should by having more grip with less ride height but it just isnt being modeled into the tire temps.Theres other things too but as papyrus stated they cant put it all in since it takes to much cpu to calculate this stuff eprfectly.I wish someone would figure out all the things that are perfectly modled in GPL so we can work from there in our setups. Skeeter

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>Jesse >>> I have started racing the Lotus lately and tonight I stumbled onto >>>something that I didnt think happened in GPL.After 10 laps at the Glen >>>my car would start sliding on right hand turns.Braking and >>>accelaration suffer too.Crashing is inevitable.After 4 restarts I >>>decide to look at my tire temps and they are reading 270deg for the >>>left/rear and 260 for the left/front.So I start taking it real >>260 degrees shouldn't have your car sliding too much. 300 degrees is >>the limit. At that temprature, your car becomes undrivable. It is very >>abrupt too. Get one tyre temp to 300 and you'll immediatley start >>doing spins while cornering. >>The primary reason why you would get it to 300 is running front and >>rear bars at 200 on a twisty circuit. 200 f+b at monza or spa is ok, >>cause the tyres cool down on the straights, but at zandy, they >>overheat within a few laps. >>At a place like zandy, monaco, watkins glen, the maximum rollbart that >>can be run without overheating is 150 f+b. >>>easy,trying to stay behind the lead car to serve as a reference for >>>how quick to take the turns.I turn the front wheel as little as >>>possible and am actually easing off the throttle when I need the car >>>to turn more instead of more lock.I am also trying for the least >>This will help, and it's most noticalble at a place like monaco. >>During braking for the hairpins, you can pull on some lock, but your >>car won't turn in till you have scrubbed the speed off. I believe it >>may even increase braking distance, cause your fronts are now sliding >>instead of being on the braking threshold of grip.. >>Therefore it usually is better to wait till you can turn with grip, >>rather than power it though, sliding all the way...off the track :) >>>amount of tire squeal I can possibly do.I am only doing lap averages >>>of 1:06:XX with occasional dips to the 5's.The best out their are >>>doing low4's so I cant see how Im pushing the car too hard.I am using >>>the default Lotus setups with gear,brake and ride height changes >>>only.Is it because you just cant run 17 laps in the 6's.The really >>>fast are doing low 4's at the Glen.Do they race at those times or is >>>this a hotlap setup only kind of thing??One thing I am noticing is how >>I can only speak for my own experiences, but all my "hotlap" setups >>are actually race setups. The exception being my zandvoort setup. The >>zandy setup is only a hotlap setup, and is exceptional hard to >>control, even for me :) >>In most races, we run consistant laps within about 1/2 a second of the >>WR. The exceptions being the long tracks such as spa and the ring. >>A quick idea of what i mean, in the GPLWS race at watkins glen race >>number 2, I did four***, 1m04s laps, with the best being 1m04s10. The >>other few where a 1m09(start lap) 2 1m05's and a 1m06. And I still got >>beaten by wolfgang by 0.27secs :) >>>you start to really sense the car on its edge of traction with >>>practice even with the limited tire squeal sounds GPL has.Tire >>>overheating and its affecting grip levels has probably happened to me >>>before and I just never noticed it. >>Sensing traction, is mainly by sound. You can make the tires squeal >>quite alot, and that is where the most speed is. If you watch one of >>my hotlaps, you will see how on the edge I am, and during races, I am >>quite close to that lap, every lap. >>Ian Lake >>/\ Smooth is fast! [link lost in import: /\] >>>Skeeter

Skeeter, Glad to have helped, no if I can just remember the things I have been practising in GPL when I get into the real car. -- David Robinson Egan's Law The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first gear.

What you people fail to realise is that the range of setups and adjustments provided in GPL far exceeds anything that was actually done in real life. Between races there was little done to the cars other than (possibly) changing gearbox ratios for the next track. Testing of cars was almost non-existent unless a major change had been made to either design or to engine. The ride-height adjustment in GPL is fictitous when related to real life.......this huge range, from an inch to six-inches ground clearance, is science fiction! Average ride-height was in excess of four inches and adjustments to spring/damper settings were extremely coarse compared to those presented in the simulation. So if you want to criticise GPLs accuaracy, it should be directed the other way....that the simulation provides adjustments far beyond what were available in real life.

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> >You make a great point. All teh guys that run the hard setups cant run them > >for long due to tire wear. I never thought of it because GPL simply doesnt > >have tire wear, just temps. That is also how it is in real life, stiff > >suspension handles great but tears up the tires, so maybe GPL is really > >modeling everything correctly (well maybe not the toein/out maximums). I > >guess that also shows why at a race at silverstone my braking kept getting > >worse and worse and I started going wider and wider in my 30 lap race, > >finally found some strategy for those long races. > Hehe me too.GPL is not totally realistic in terms of car setups and > there is much room for improvement.I have noticed many faults in the > GPL garage.This doesntreally matter in racing the cars though since > its just numbers in the garage and you whats supposed to happen by > changing a setup option actually happens..The fact that you can go > from a 5in ride height down to a 1in and have the tire temps remain > the same on both sides of the car is dead wrong.In real life the > higher trhe center of gravity the more weight will transfer so the > outside tires will go overload andthe inside will not be used as > much.The net effect of this is less overall grip.Lower ride height > means less weight transfer and your inside tires have more weight to > grip with.This doesnt really matter because in GPL the car behaves > like it should by having more grip with less ride height but it just > isnt being modeled into the tire temps.Theres other things too but as > papyrus stated they cant put it all in since it takes to much cpu to > calculate this stuff eprfectly.I wish someone would figure out all the > things that are perfectly modled in GPL so we can work from there in > our setups. > Skeeter > >Jesse > >>> I have started racing the Lotus lately and tonight I stumbled onto > >>>something that I didnt think happened in GPL.After 10 laps at the Glen > >>>my car would start sliding on right hand turns.Braking and > >>>accelaration suffer too.Crashing is inevitable.After 4 restarts I > >>>decide to look at my tire temps and they are reading 270deg for the > >>>left/rear and 260 for the left/front.So I start taking it real > >>260 degrees shouldn't have your car sliding too much. 300 degrees is > >>the limit. At that temprature, your car becomes undrivable. It is very > >>abrupt too. Get one tyre temp to 300 and you'll immediatley start > >>doing spins while cornering. > >>The primary reason why you would get it to 300 is running front and > >>rear bars at 200 on a twisty circuit. 200 f+b at monza or spa is ok, > >>cause the tyres cool down on the straights, but at zandy, they > >>overheat within a few laps. > >>At a place like zandy, monaco, watkins glen, the maximum rollbart that > >>can be run without overheating is 150 f+b. > >>>easy,trying to stay behind the lead car to serve as a reference for > >>>how quick to take the turns.I turn the front wheel as little as > >>>possible and am actually easing off the throttle when I need the car > >>>to turn more instead of more lock.I am also trying for the least > >>This will help, and it's most noticalble at a place like monaco. > >>During braking for the hairpins, you can pull on some lock, but your > >>car won't turn in till you have scrubbed the speed off. I believe it > >>may even increase braking distance, cause your fronts are now sliding > >>instead of being on the braking threshold of grip.. > >>Therefore it usually is better to wait till you can turn with grip, > >>rather than power it though, sliding all the way...off the track :) > >>>amount of tire squeal I can possibly do.I am only doing lap averages > >>>of 1:06:XX with occasional dips to the 5's.The best out their are > >>>doing low4's so I cant see how Im pushing the car too hard.I am using > >>>the default Lotus setups with gear,brake and ride height changes > >>>only.Is it because you just cant run 17 laps in the 6's.The really > >>>fast are doing low 4's at the Glen.Do they race at those times or is > >>>this a hotlap setup only kind of thing??One thing I am noticing is how > >>I can only speak for my own experiences, but all my "hotlap" setups > >>are actually race setups. The exception being my zandvoort setup. The > >>zandy setup is only a hotlap setup, and is exceptional hard to > >>control, even for me :) > >>In most races, we run consistant laps within about 1/2 a second of the > >>WR. The exceptions being the long tracks such as spa and the ring. > >>A quick idea of what i mean, in the GPLWS race at watkins glen race > >>number 2, I did four***, 1m04s laps, with the best being 1m04s10. The > >>other few where a 1m09(start lap) 2 1m05's and a 1m06. And I still got > >>beaten by wolfgang by 0.27secs :) > >>>you start to really sense the car on its edge of traction with > >>>practice even with the limited tire squeal sounds GPL has.Tire > >>>overheating and its affecting grip levels has probably happened to me > >>>before and I just never noticed it. > >>Sensing traction, is mainly by sound. You can make the tires squeal > >>quite alot, and that is where the most speed is. If you watch one of > >>my hotlaps, you will see how on the edge I am, and during races, I am > >>quite close to that lap, every lap. > >>Ian Lake > >>/\ Smooth is fast! [link lost in import: /\] > >>>Skeeter

-- Regards, Bruce. ---------- HMRC Web site address is:- http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm ----------

On Mon, 08 Mar 1999 19:33:47 +1100, Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>What you people fail to realise is that the range of setups and >adjustments provided in GPL far exceeds anything that was actually done >in real life. >Between races there was little done to the cars other than (possibly) >changing gearbox ratios for the next track. Testing of cars was almost >non-existent unless a major change had been made to either design or to >engine. >The ride-height adjustment in GPL is fictitous when related to real >life.......this huge range, from an inch to six-inches ground clearance, >is science fiction! Average ride-height was in excess of four inches >and adjustments to spring/damper settings were extremely coarse compared >to those presented in the simulation. >So if you want to criticise GPLs accuaracy, it should be directed the >other way....that the simulation provides adjustments far beyond what >were available in real life.

I am not trying to downplay GPL at all.I love GPL!!!I marvel at how realistic the driving model feels.I watch in amazement at how realistic this new physics models looks when I watch the racing from outside my car.I only paid $25 dollars for my beloved copy since I had the origional Electronics Boutique ad.I cant believe all the nights of enjoyment that this small purchase has given me.I have been driving GPL since the first night the demo appeared and it has been becoming even more satisfying the more I drive it.This game has forced me to make a homemade wheel/pedal setup thats good enough to take nightly abuse since the bungee in my T2 constantly loosened up and the pedals were awful.I have upgraded to a 450mhz pc with a 21in monitor just for GPL.I am seriously thinking of buying the Game Frame Pro cockpit from Ball Racing, "just" for GPL.Believe me I am not downplaying this game or should I say sim?I was just pointing out that this is not the ultimate in physics modeleing.Theres still many things that can be added and I for one feel this is something to look foward to in future Pay sims.The roads are smooth as silk in GPL and most likely N3 and this makse alot of the setup otions not work the way they should.People are running very stiff suspensions with super low ride heights since the GPL world doesnt model bumps on the roads.You better believe I am running an unrealistically low ride height at all the tracks too.The way I look at it is I am using every means of car setup to go faster in the simulated world of GPL.When we finally get these bumps in the roads,setups will be very varied and realistic.Wanna go fast then stiffen up those springs but have to deal with the fact that your tires will now skip across the road on turns and not grip as well.Something I noticed in the demo that I dont in my final copy is that I could swear there were bumps at the small downhill section before the ninety/Glen.If I would brake just at the limit of edhesion in the demo my car would sorta skip down the hill but this never happens in my final copy.I dont have the origional demo anymore so I cant try it to make sure I wasnt imagining this.High frequency bumps are defenitley something to look foward too in future sims to hit the market as is FFB wheels,pedals,VR systems and motion simulators:))But GPL is so realistic as it is that as I have said I spent lots of mula to enjoy it as it should be played. Skeeter

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>[email hidden] wrote: >> On Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:08:50 -0500, "Wosco" <[email hidden]> >> wrote: >> >You make a great point. All teh guys that run the hard setups cant run them >> >for long due to tire wear. I never thought of it because GPL simply doesnt >> >have tire wear, just temps. That is also how it is in real life, stiff >> >suspension handles great but tears up the tires, so maybe GPL is really >> >modeling everything correctly (well maybe not the toein/out maximums). I >> >guess that also shows why at a race at silverstone my braking kept getting >> >worse and worse and I started going wider and wider in my 30 lap race, >> >finally found some strategy for those long races. >> Hehe me too.GPL is not totally realistic in terms of car setups and >> there is much room for improvement.I have noticed many faults in the >> GPL garage.This doesntreally matter in racing the cars though since >> its just numbers in the garage and you whats supposed to happen by >> changing a setup option actually happens..The fact that you can go >> from a 5in ride height down to a 1in and have the tire temps remain >> the same on both sides of the car is dead wrong.In real life the >> higher trhe center of gravity the more weight will transfer so the >> outside tires will go overload andthe inside will not be used as >> much.The net effect of this is less overall grip.Lower ride height >> means less weight transfer and your inside tires have more weight to >> grip with.This doesnt really matter because in GPL the car behaves >> like it should by having more grip with less ride height but it just >> isnt being modeled into the tire temps.Theres other things too but as >> papyrus stated they cant put it all in since it takes to much cpu to >> calculate this stuff eprfectly.I wish someone would figure out all the >> things that are perfectly modled in GPL so we can work from there in >> our setups. >> Skeeter >> >Jesse >> >Ian Lake wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >> >>On Sat, 06 Mar 1999 11:49:25 GMT, in rec.autos.simulators you wrote: >> >>> I have started racing the Lotus lately and tonight I stumbled onto >> >>>something that I didnt think happened in GPL.After 10 laps at the Glen >> >>>my car would start sliding on right hand turns.Braking and >> >>>accelaration suffer too.Crashing is inevitable.After 4 restarts I >> >>>decide to look at my tire temps and they are reading 270deg for the >> >>>left/rear and 260 for the left/front.So I start taking it real >> >>260 degrees shouldn't have your car sliding too much. 300 degrees is >> >>the limit. At that temprature, your car becomes undrivable. It is very >> >>abrupt too. Get one tyre temp to 300 and you'll immediatley start >> >>doing spins while cornering. >> >>The primary reason why you would get it to 300 is running front and >> >>rear bars at 200 on a twisty circuit. 200 f+b at monza or spa is ok, >> >>cause the tyres cool down on the straights, but at zandy, they >> >>overheat within a few laps. >> >>At a place like zandy, monaco, watkins glen, the maximum rollbart that >> >>can be run without overheating is 150 f+b. >> >>>easy,trying to stay behind the lead car to serve as a reference for >> >>>how quick to take the turns.I turn the front wheel as little as >> >>>possible and am actually easing off the throttle when I need the car >> >>>to turn more instead of more lock.I am also trying for the least >> >>This will help, and it's most noticalble at a place like monaco. >> >>During braking for the hairpins, you can pull on some lock, but your >> >>car won't turn in till you have scrubbed the speed off. I believe it >> >>may even increase braking distance, cause your fronts are now sliding >> >>instead of being on the braking threshold of grip.. >> >>Therefore it usually is better to wait till you can turn with grip, >> >>rather than power it though, sliding all the way...off the track :) >> >>>amount of tire squeal I can possibly do.I am only doing lap averages >> >>>of 1:06:XX with occasional dips to the 5's.The best out their are >> >>>doing low4's so I cant see how Im pushing the car too hard.I am using >> >>>the default Lotus setups with gear,brake and ride height changes >> >>>only.Is it because you just cant run 17 laps in the 6's.The really >> >>>fast are doing low 4's at the Glen.Do they race at those times or is >> >>>this a hotlap setup only kind of thing??One thing I am noticing is how >> >>I can only speak for my own experiences, but all my "hotlap" setups >> >>are actually race setups. The exception being my zandvoort setup. The >> >>zandy setup is only a hotlap setup, and is exceptional hard to >> >>control, even for me :) >> >>In most races, we run consistant laps within about 1/2 a second of the >> >>WR. The exceptions being the long tracks such as spa and the ring. >> >>A quick idea of what i mean, in the GPLWS race at watkins glen race >> >>number 2, I did fourteen, 1m04s laps, with the best being 1m04s10. The >> >>other few where a 1m09(start lap) 2 1m05's and a 1m06. And I still got >> >>beaten by wolfgang by 0.27secs :) >> >>>you start to really sense the car on its edge of traction with >> >>>practice even with the limited tire squeal sounds GPL has.Tire >> >>>overheating and its affecting grip levels has probably happened to me >> >>>before and I just never noticed it. >> >>Sensing traction, is mainly by sound. You can make the tires squeal >> >>quite alot, and that is where the most speed is. If you watch one of >> >>my hotlaps, you will see how on the edge I am, and during races, I am >> >>quite close to that lap, every lap. >> >>Ian Lake >> >>/\ Smooth is fast! http://gpl.gamesmania.com/fastlaps.htm /\ >> >>>Skeeter >-- >Regards, >Bruce. >---------- >HMRC Web site address is:- >http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm >----------