GPL improved frame rate (drivers)

I read with intrest Allisons comments about improved performanc with the SB Live value. I already had the said card and my F.R. was only ok in 640 480. But by reinstalling all the latest video drivers in the CORRECT ORDER, I'm now happily running 800 600 res with 36 fps solid in outside view, and the hi 20's in inside driver view. First install you latest 2D video driver. Second your latest 3D video drivers. Third latest virsion of DX6. It worked wonders for me. PII 266 o/c 448 Matrox G200 (sucks for GPL 3D) Diamond monster 1 (best for GPL 3D) Lew Hosier Chuck Skidmore

Uh... I think you must be confused. The Monster 3D "1" only has resolution of 640x480. There is no ability to run at a higher resolution. Now if you have a Monster 3D 2 or a Banshee, then it's possible. I wouldn't nitpick like this, but there's a lot of misinformation in this group regarding 3D cards and their capabilities and specifications. The same goes for processors, motherboards, etc. Dave Long

Well I believe that the 800x600 in gpl is a myth. It reads that but when you go to play, it is still in 640x480. Do a test, figure out how much your FPS lowers when you go to 800x600. Voodoo1 cards CANT go to 800x600. Just not made to do it. Jesse Black <Pip>

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|Hmmmm. |Cant Claim any expirtees here. |But I do only have a Diamond monster 1. It was hitech when I bought it |about |2 years ago, and I've considered replaceing it several times with (2) |monster |2 cards for my #1 Sim WarBirds WWII online flight sim. |It got reused in my new P266 o/c 448 box along with a new Matrox G200. | |So cross my heart and hope to die, its a monster one. And its running |quite |nicely at 800 x 600. | |I'm as suprised as you are since previously it was marginal at 640 480 w |the |Monster and terrible with the G200. | |Somehow I think the 2D power of the G200 must be helping the 3dfx. |Or something.... | |BTW the latest drivers I used were the 3dfx ones not the Diamond ones. | |Lew Hosier | |> |> Uh... I think you must be confused. The Monster 3D "1" only has

resolution |> of 640x480. There is no ability to run at a higher resolution. Now if you

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|> have a Monster 3D 2 or a Banshee, then it's possible. I wouldn't nitpick |> like this, but there's a lot of misinformation in this group regarding 3D |> cards and their capabilities and specifications. The same goes for |> processors, motherboards, etc. |> |> Dave Long |> |> > I read with intrest Allisons comments about improved performanc with |> > the SB Live value. |> > |> > I already had the said card and my F.R. was only ok in 640 480. |> > |> > But by reinstalling all the latest video drivers in the CORRECT ORDER, |> > I'm now happily running 800 600 res with 36 fps solid in outside view, |> > and the hi 20's in inside driver view. |> > |> > First install you latest 2D video driver. |> > Second your latest 3D video drivers. |> > Third latest virsion of DX6. |> > |> > It worked wonders for me. |> > |> > PII 266 o/c 448 |> > Matrox G200 (sucks for GPL 3D) |> > Diamond monster 1 (best for GPL 3D) |> > |> > Lew Hosier |> > Chuck Skidmore

My Pure3D 1 does. :) And it's definately running at 8x6, since when I run it at that, it's centered on the screen ,fitting nicely. When I move to 640x480 the screen is much smaller, due to the refresh rate I had the 6x4 res set for. You can tell, and I do not doubt anyone at all, saying they're running a v1 at 8x6 in GPL. Sorry for all the acronyms. :)

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> Well I believe that the 800x600 in gpl is a myth. It reads that but when > you go to play, it is still in 640x480. Do a test, figure out how much your > FPS lowers when you go to 800x600. Voodoo1 cards CANT go to 800x600. Just > not made to do it. > Jesse Black > <Pip>

Hmmmm. Cant Claim any expirtees here. But I do only have a Diamond monster 1. It was hitech when I bought it about 2 years ago, and I've considered replaceing it several times with (2) monster 2 cards for my #1 Sim WarBirds WWII online flight sim. It got reused in my new P266 o/c 448 box along with a new Matrox G200. So cross my heart and hope to die, its a monster one. And its running quite nicely at 800 x 600. I'm as suprised as you are since previously it was marginal at 640 480 w the Monster and terrible with the G200. Somehow I think the 2D power of the G200 must be helping the 3dfx. Or something.... BTW the latest drivers I used were the 3dfx ones not the Diamond ones. Lew Hosier

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> Uh... I think you must be confused. The Monster 3D "1" only has resolution > of 640x480. There is no ability to run at a higher resolution. Now if you > have a Monster 3D 2 or a Banshee, then it's possible. I wouldn't nitpick > like this, but there's a lot of misinformation in this group regarding 3D > cards and their capabilities and specifications. The same goes for > processors, motherboards, etc. > Dave Long > > I read with intrest Allisons comments about improved performanc with > > the SB Live value. > > I already had the said card and my F.R. was only ok in 640 480. > > But by reinstalling all the latest video drivers in the CORRECT ORDER, > > I'm now happily running 800 600 res with 36 fps solid in outside view, > > and the hi 20's in inside driver view. > > First install you latest 2D video driver. > > Second your latest 3D video drivers. > > Third latest virsion of DX6. > > It worked wonders for me. > > PII 266 o/c 448 > > Matrox G200 (sucks for GPL 3D) > > Diamond monster 1 (best for GPL 3D) > > Lew Hosier > > Chuck Skidmore

Yes, lots of misinformation. Like your post. Ok, here's the scoop. Some 3D games use a Z-buffer, some do not. I think this is used to avoid drawing the scene behind an object that can't be seen anyway, speeding up framerates. But, it uses graphics memory. The way it affects 3dfx cards (Voodoo1 and Voodoo2) is this: Games using the Z-buffer limit the resolution, 640x480 on V1, 800x600 on a single V2. If a game doesn't use Z-Buffer, they *CAN* run at 800x600 on V1, 1024x768 on single V2. I run games on my single 12mb V2 at 1024x768 all the time, although for many I prefer the framerate at 800x600 - GPL for example. So he IS getting 800x600 on a V1, GPL will do it, FS98 will do it, etc. -- Ken "If I went 'round claiming I was Emperor because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away" - anonymous peasant Go #43 and #44! volksy (at) geocities (dot) com volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com >Uh... I think you must be confused. The Monster 3D "1" only has resolution >of 640x480. There is no ability to run at a higher resolution. Now if you >have a Monster 3D 2 or a Banshee, then it's possible. I wouldn't nitpick >like this, but there's a lot of misinformation in this group regarding 3D >cards and their capabilities and specifications. The same goes for >processors, motherboards, etc. >Dave Long >> I read with intrest Allisons comments about improved performanc with >> the SB Live value. >> I already had the said card and my F.R. was only ok in 640 480. >> But by reinstalling all the latest video drivers in the CORRECT ORDER, >> I'm now happily running 800 600 res with 36 fps solid in outside view, >> and the hi 20's in inside driver view. >> First install you latest 2D video driver. >> Second your latest 3D video drivers. >> Third latest virsion of DX6. >> It worked wonders for me. >> PII 266 o/c 448 >> Matrox G200 (sucks for GPL 3D) >> Diamond monster 1 (best for GPL 3D) >> Lew Hosier >> Chuck Skidmore

BZZZT. YES THEY CAN. If a game DOESN'T use a Z-Buffer, it can most definitely do 800x600 on a Voodoo 1. The same situation exists with the Voodoo 2, where you can on a single Voodoo 2 run some games at 1024x768 (although it keeps getting misstated that this requires SLI). Case in point, GPL. On my ONE 12mb Voodoo2, I CAN run it at 1024x768. So therefore, it doesn't use Z-Buffer. So it can do 800x600 on a Voodoo 1. I haven't seen this with my own eyes w/ V1 and GPL, but way back when when I was trying out cards I had a Monster 3D in my K6-200, and DID run it at 800x600 in Flightsim 98, with the framerate hit to prove it, and it was definitely sharper. So it is NO MYTH - at least as far as the card not being able to do it at all - it may not do it in GPL but I can't see why not. -- Ken "If I went 'round claiming I was Emperor because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away" - anonymous peasant Go #43 and #44! volksy (at) geocities (dot) com volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com >Well I believe that the 800x600 in gpl is a myth. It reads that but when >you go to play, it is still in 640x480. Do a test, figure out how much your >FPS lowers when you go to 800x600. Voodoo1 cards CANT go to 800x600. Just >not made to do it. >Jesse Black ><Pip> >|Hmmmm. >|Cant Claim any expirtees here. >|But I do only have a Diamond monster 1. It was hitech when I bought it >|about >|2 years ago, and I've considered replaceing it several times with (2) >|monster >|2 cards for my #1 Sim WarBirds WWII online flight sim. >|It got reused in my new P266 o/c 448 box along with a new Matrox G200. >| >|So cross my heart and hope to die, its a monster one. And its running >|quite >|nicely at 800 x 600. >| >|I'm as suprised as you are since previously it was marginal at 640 480 w >|the >|Monster and terrible with the G200. >| >|Somehow I think the 2D power of the G200 must be helping the 3dfx. >|Or something.... >| >|BTW the latest drivers I used were the 3dfx ones not the Diamond ones. >| >|Lew Hosier >| >|> >|> Uh... I think you must be confused. The Monster 3D "1" only has >resolution >|> of 640x480. There is no ability to run at a higher resolution. Now if >you >|> have a Monster 3D 2 or a Banshee, then it's possible. I wouldn't nitpick >|> like this, but there's a lot of misinformation in this group regarding 3D >|> cards and their capabilities and specifications. The same goes for >|> processors, motherboards, etc. >|> >|> Dave Long >|> >|> > I read with intrest Allisons comments about improved performanc with >|> > the SB Live value. >|> > >|> > I already had the said card and my F.R. was only ok in 640 480. >|> > >|> > But by reinstalling all the latest video drivers in the CORRECT ORDER, >|> > I'm now happily running 800 600 res with 36 fps solid in outside view, >|> > and the hi 20's in inside driver view. >|> > >|> > First install you latest 2D video driver. >|> > Second your latest 3D video drivers. >|> > Third latest virsion of DX6. >|> > >|> > It worked wonders for me. >|> > >|> > PII 266 o/c 448 >|> > Matrox G200 (sucks for GPL 3D) >|> > Diamond monster 1 (best for GPL 3D) >|> > >|> > Lew Hosier >|> > Chuck Skidmore

Pure 3D have more Texture memory than a Diamond Monster 3D. The Pure 3D has 6MB onboard, 4 for textures and 2 for frame buffer, the Monster 1 only has 2 for textures and 2 for frame buffer. A 6MB Voodoo1 is the only car that can do proper 800x600. Any 4MB Voodoo1 is limited to 640x480. Read any reviews on the old cards and all the game reviews and they all say 640x480 It is possible in some games to run at 800x600 with a 4mb card, but I believe you have to disable certain functions to do it. -- Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors Alfa Romeo - Super Touring - Club Cars http://fullspeed.to/astc Australian Super Touring Championship News and Information

On Mon, 29 Mar 1999 03:40:26 GMT, "Ken Beard" >Yes, lots of misinformation. Like your post. >Ok, here's the scoop. Some 3D games use a Z-buffer, some do not. I think >this is used to avoid drawing the scene behind an object that can't be seen >anyway, speeding up framerates. But, it uses graphics memory. Z-buffering is storing the Z-value of every drawn pixel, so you can compare new polygons being drawn for their Z-values and draw only if their Z coordinate is closer to the eye than the pixel that is already there is. Z-buffers come in different bitsizes (16/24 etc) for which more bits mean more accurate buffering (for polygons close to each other, and on edges). Yes, I have done 800x600 on my 4Mb Voodoo1 card. Just no z-buffering. Ruud van Gaal MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

Well I guess I'm wrong. But I thought I could use my v2 card in 1024x768 in most games but maybe I am wrong there also. I have a voodoo1 card in my other computer but don't play GPL on it much. I was just basing everything on what I have read on RAS a while ago. I remember reading something about it just being a fake but maybe that was just one of many responses. OH well, RAS has failed me again. Jesse

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|BZZZT. | |YES THEY CAN. If a game DOESN'T use a Z-Buffer, it can most definitely do |800x600 on a Voodoo 1. The same situation exists with the Voodoo 2, where |you can on a single Voodoo 2 run some games at 1024x768 (although it keeps |getting misstated that this requires SLI). | |Case in point, GPL. On my ONE 12mb Voodoo2, I CAN run it at 1024x768. So |therefore, it doesn't use Z-Buffer. So it can do 800x600 on a Voodoo 1. I |haven't seen this with my own eyes w/ V1 and GPL, but way back when when I |was trying out cards I had a Monster 3D in my K6-200, and DID run it at |800x600 in Flightsim 98, with the framerate hit to prove it, and it was |definitely sharper. | |So it is NO MYTH - at least as far as the card not being able to do it at |all - it may not do it in GPL but I can't see why not. | |-- |Ken | |"If I went 'round claiming I was Emperor because some | moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away" - anonymous |peasant | |Go #43 and #44! | |volksy (at) geocities (dot) com |volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com | | |>Well I believe that the 800x600 in gpl is a myth. It reads that but when |>you go to play, it is still in 640x480. Do a test, figure out how much |your |>FPS lowers when you go to 800x600. Voodoo1 cards CANT go to 800x600.

Just

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|>not made to do it. |> |>Jesse Black |><Pip> |> |>|Hmmmm. |>|Cant Claim any expirtees here. |>|But I do only have a Diamond monster 1. It was hitech when I bought it |>|about |>|2 years ago, and I've considered replaceing it several times with (2) |>|monster |>|2 cards for my #1 Sim WarBirds WWII online flight sim. |>|It got reused in my new P266 o/c 448 box along with a new Matrox G200. |>| |>|So cross my heart and hope to die, its a monster one. And its running |>|quite |>|nicely at 800 x 600. |>| |>|I'm as suprised as you are since previously it was marginal at 640 480 w |>|the |>|Monster and terrible with the G200. |>| |>|Somehow I think the 2D power of the G200 must be helping the 3dfx. |>|Or something.... |>| |>|BTW the latest drivers I used were the 3dfx ones not the Diamond ones. |>| |>|Lew Hosier |>| |>|> |>|> Uh... I think you must be confused. The Monster 3D "1" only has |>resolution |>|> of 640x480. There is no ability to run at a higher resolution. Now if |>you |>|> have a Monster 3D 2 or a Banshee, then it's possible. I wouldn't |nitpick |>|> like this, but there's a lot of misinformation in this group regarding |3D |>|> cards and their capabilities and specifications. The same goes for |>|> processors, motherboards, etc. |>|> |>|> Dave Long |>|> |>|> > I read with intrest Allisons comments about improved performanc with |>|> > the SB Live value. |>|> > |>|> > I already had the said card and my F.R. was only ok in 640 480. |>|> > |>|> > But by reinstalling all the latest video drivers in the CORRECT

ORDER, |>|> > I'm now happily running 800 600 res with 36 fps solid in outside view,

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|>|> > and the hi 20's in inside driver view. |>|> > |>|> > First install you latest 2D video driver. |>|> > Second your latest 3D video drivers. |>|> > Third latest virsion of DX6. |>|> > |>|> > It worked wonders for me. |>|> > |>|> > PII 266 o/c 448 |>|> > Matrox G200 (sucks for GPL 3D) |>|> > Diamond monster 1 (best for GPL 3D) |>|> > |>|> > Lew Hosier |>|> > Chuck Skidmore |> |> | |

Bullshit! They do, but without a Z-buffer. I know, as I had a Pure3d I which ran GPL and Flight Unlimited 2 in 800x600, now I have V2 sli. A single V2 does 1024x768 with GPL btw (but unplayable IMO), this is also possible because GPL does not use a Z-buffer. K.S. Br?nnick

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>On Mon, 29 Mar 1999 03:40:26 GMT, "Ken Beard" >>Yes, lots of misinformation. Like your post. >>Ok, here's the scoop. Some 3D games use a Z-buffer, some do not. I think >>this is used to avoid drawing the scene behind an object that can't be

seen

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>>anyway, speeding up framerates. But, it uses graphics memory. >Z-buffering is storing the Z-value of every drawn pixel, so you can >compare new polygons being drawn for their Z-values and draw only if >their Z coordinate is closer to the eye than the pixel that is already >there is. Z-buffers come in different bitsizes (16/24 etc) for which >more bits mean more accurate buffering (for polygons close to each >other, and on edges).

Yup. And like Ken said, this information is stored in frame buffer memory. Extra texture memory in Pure3D doesn't do you any good when we're talking about resolutions. The fact that Voodoo cards have fixed and separate frame and texture memories is a major drawback. Other cards, like TNT, have dynamic texture/frame buffer memories, ie. enabling higher resolutions if for example textures used are small ... Hena

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>Pure 3D have more Texture memory than a Diamond Monster 3D. The Pure >3D has 6MB onboard, 4 for textures and 2 for frame buffer, the Monster >1 only has 2 for textures and 2 for frame buffer. >A 6MB Voodoo1 is the only car that can do proper 800x600. Any 4MB >Voodoo1 is limited to 640x480. Read any reviews on the old cards and >all the game reviews and they all say 640x480 >It is possible in some games to run at 800x600 with a 4mb card, but I >believe you have to disable certain functions to do it.

I have a Diamond Monster 1, 4MB. It runs GPL at 800x600. Not good, but it runs. The framerate is bad, the picture is distorted (looks square and is way too dark - I think I could cure that, but I never saw the need to do so), but it works. The resolution is definitely higher than in 640x480, so it's not just a different 640x480 mode. So it is definitely possible (though not desirable due to the bad framerate in comparison to 640x480) to use a resolution of 800x600 in GPL with a Monster 1. Case closed. -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

> Uh... I think you must be confused. The Monster 3D "1" only has resolution > of 640x480. There is no ability to run at a higher resolution. Now if you > have a Monster 3D 2 or a Banshee, then it's possible. I wouldn't nitpick > like this, but there's a lot of misinformation in this group regarding 3D > cards and their capabilities and specifications. As a matter of fact, the Voodoo1 cards can indeed go to 800*600 in any game that doesn't use the z-buffer. Only games that use the z-buffer are limited to 640*480. Trips

Here are some results of tests on my system. PII 266 o/c 448 Monster 1, Matrox G200 64 mg ram DX 6 I only tested the Diamond Monster 1 drivers, listed as "3dfx" in the options menu. The G200 drivers option seems to have disapeared, and since everything is running so well right now, I'm not gonna muck with the drivers. Test was done at the start with 10 opponents offline. Most graphic options are on but the detail level is to the left. at the start w/ 10 cars 800x600 in-20 out-36 640x480 in-27 out-36 No cars visible 800x600 in-27 out-36 640x480 in-31 out-36 I am running a matrox utility that de-syncs the video output from the monitor rate, so my crummy monitor doesn't slow thing down. It causes occasional burps in the video. Let me know if you need to know more. Lew Hosier

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> I read with intrest Allisons comments about improved performanc with > the SB Live value. > I already had the said card and my F.R. was only ok in 640 480. > But by reinstalling all the latest video drivers in the CORRECT ORDER, > I'm now happily running 800 600 res with 36 fps solid in outside view, > and the hi 20's in inside driver view. > First install you latest 2D video driver. > Second your latest 3D video drivers. > Third latest virsion of DX6. > It worked wonders for me. > PII 266 o/c 448 > Matrox G200 (sucks for GPL 3D) > Diamond monster 1 (best for GPL 3D) > Lew Hosier > Chuck Skidmore