Finally The Glen under 1:10!!!

So, tell us how you did it! rob. >After only 3-400 laps, too! Funny how it goes.. Was consistant 1:10xx >and 1:11xx until last night. Now i'm in the mid 1:08s!! A little >better timing and possibly a setup tweak or two and i'll be there! >G. Patricks >G. Patricks

My best lap so far had been a 1:10.21. I wasn't that happy with this, so I decided to just do some hotlapping. after 3 laps, I was down to 1:09.98. I was glad to be below the magic 1:10 barrier, but I wanted to go farther. next laps I got .55 and .44. Then, I remembered something: If I drive like a maniac, and crash into a barrier, I am still going to be able to walk away. So I decided to brake a little later each turn, trying to see what the car's limit was (hey, it worked for Gilles Villeneuve, might work for me :D ). So the next lap I crashed. heh, thats alright, I reset and started over. The next laps I get 1:08.5 and .4. Again, I am really psyched to have cut 2 seconds off my best in 20 minutes. I decide to start a novice race, and just see where I would qualify. Clark takes pole with a 1:07.09. Chasing this, I pull out a personal best 1:07.89!!! I was out of my mind! Now I know I still qualed 9th on the grid, but it was my first real accomplishment (my best SIMing accomplishment to this point was a 186 at n2 Michigan :D ) So that is my great story! My best setup advice is start off by putting brake bias to 54%. Then move the roll bars up to 100 and 80. And adjust fuel accordingly. not much, but it helps. Sean

: So, tell us how you did it! Yeah - what's the "under 1:10" secret? -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Yes! Way to go... I think you've pushed through the envelope and are seeing what you can do if you break out of what you do lap after lap... then you get in a rut. But by experimenting and pushing a bit, you had a real breakthrough. Keep at it and you'll find even more! -_dave

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> My best lap so far had been a 1:10.21. I wasn't that happy with this, so I > decided to just do some hotlapping. after 3 laps, I was down to 1:09.98. I > was glad to be below the magic 1:10 barrier, but I wanted to go farther. next > laps I got .55 and .44. Then, I remembered something: If I drive like a > maniac, and crash into a barrier, I am still going to be able to walk away. So > I decided to brake a little later each turn, trying to see what the car's limit > was (hey, it worked for Gilles Villeneuve, might work for me :D ). So the next > lap I crashed. heh, thats alright, I reset and started over. The next laps I > get 1:08.5 and .4. Again, I am really psyched to have cut 2 seconds off my > best in 20 minutes. I decide to start a novice race, and just see where I > would qualify. > Clark takes pole with a 1:07.09. Chasing this, I pull out a personal best > 1:07.89!!! I was out of my mind! Now I know I still qualed 9th on the grid, > but it was my first real accomplishment (my best SIMing accomplishment to this > point was a 186 at n2 Michigan :D ) > So that is my great story! > My best setup advice is start off by putting brake bias to 54%. Then move the > roll bars up to 100 and 80. And adjust fuel accordingly. not much, but it > helps. > Sean

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Secret? Its (LOTS OF) practice! I have downloaded 100s of setups, read tip and hints, tried setting up a car from scratch, modifying other fast lapper setups, raced the "gentler" cars, etc. All that did one thing for me. It immersed me in the sim even more and trying all those things kept me on the track (90% at Watkins Glen, at least I stayed consistent with that! LOL). My triumph came driving a Ferrari as I have been wrestling with the red beast of late. I had hit 1:10 in the Honda but seemed stuck there, and the Ferrari "felt" quicker to me. Heres the rub. After I broke the 1:10 "barrier" with the Ferrari and was consistently running 1:08s I hopped in a Lotus. Guess what. After a few laps I had the Lotus at 1:08. Then the Honda, same thing! So what I am getting at is IMHO it ISN'T the car (at the 1:08 range anyway). For me, to go faster I "think" it will require some tweaking (of whatever car) for my particular style of driving as I am pushing the edge of control now. One thing I can say with confidence (that you have probably already found out). Just because someone has a setup that can hot lap around the Glen at 1:03xx doesn't mean its ANY good for you. >:: So, tell us how you did it! >: >: Yeah - what's the "under 1:10" secret? G. Patricks

Yup, this is very true. I hit 1:08s w/o too much of a problem...but my car still feels like its on ice through the 2nd and 3rd corners.

<...> That is a good point. When I first got GPL, something I read convinced me that setups didn't matter... but they do, and finding something that suits your personal style is essential. I don't think the setup makes the fast lap, but I think some fast laps are only available to appropriate setups (i.e., some setups *can't* do a 1:04 at the glen) I used to just use W. Woeger's setups, because they were fast. There is something nice about being sure such-and-such setup is *capable* of such a time, but in the end, my setups are now completely different, and whereas I did strictly one 1:04 at the glen with his setup and unlimited practice time, I can do two 1:04s per race with the ones I eventually evolved.. Another thing- I think as a beginner it is a mixed bessing to to start out with someone else's fast-lap setup. The pros: that you learn to drive unstable cars, and develop a taste for on-the-edge setups that will eventually make for fast (if at first unreliable) racing. The cons: if the setup is way over your head, you might not "catch up" with it in any reasonable time, and waste a lot of time fighting it. In the latter case, it is a good idea to pull the brake-bias back a bit, loosen the shocks and roll bars a notch, and get rid of a notch or two of toe-out on the front, if there is any. At least at a place like the Glen. I love the glen- someone blows your hot lap, so what- it's only another minute around! Unlike Rouen, Spa, or the Ring.

>I love the glen- someone blows your hot lap, so what- it's only >another minute around! Unlike Rouen, Spa, or the Ring. Yeah, but sometimes I got the feeling I am in a CART race, with a full course yellow. :-) Remco

> : So, tell us how you did it! > Yeah - what's the "under 1:10" secret? I was in a vroc race WG last night and did my fastest *ever* lap in the qualifying period, an amazing (for me!) 1:07:71. My previous best was hovering around 1:08. There is *NO* secret to sub 1:10 laptimes. It just requires lots, and lots, and lots of practice, perseverance, determination and patience, and maybe a little luck? I found that I was hovering around 1:10 for ages and ages, I knew I could go quicker as the replay of my faster laps showed lots of errors? Then I just seemed to *click* one day, and managed a sub 1:10 lap. When you have done it once, then you *know* you can do it again. That gives you confidence. And checking the replay I made errors again so I knew I could go faster. Gradually with practice I came down to 1:08 on a fairly consistent basis, but again got stuck at that time. Then in the last few days I have made a couple of sub 1:08 laps. I find that you need to be in the mood for racing/hotlapping, Some people call it getting into the *groove* and I think this is right. Sometimes you just *feel* right when you are driving the car, at other times its not right? So relax, settle down to a nice GPL session, and gradually the times will come. I just *KNOW* I have a 1:06 in me somewhere....... 8-) *Peter* #:-)

Hehe.. I agree. A good track for short attention spans like mine! :-) -_dave > I love the glen- someone blows your hot lap, so what- it's only > another minute around! Unlike Rouen, Spa, or the Ring. -- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Hehe, I can relate to that too, Remco!! :-) Also, passing can be somewhat dicey, even without the FC yellow... -_Dave

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> >I love the glen- someone blows your hot lap, so what- it's only > >another minute around! Unlike Rouen, Spa, or the Ring. > Yeah, but sometimes I got the feeling I am in a CART race, with a full > course yellow. :-) > Remco

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

>My best setup advice is start off by putting brake bias to 54%. Then move the >roll bars up to 100 and 80. And adjust fuel accordingly. not much, but it >helps. A bit OT, but can someone remind my how to setup to get the tire temperatures evenly? I've lost the ***y setup guide somewhere in my apartment (if you saw what a mess this place is sometimes, you'd understand ;-). Also, does it make that much difference shich car you use, other than personal preference? I find the Eagle much easier to drive than the other cars. Will car choice slow me down much? Joe

Play with the camber settings to adjust the tire temps. Read the book that came with GPL it has the info you'll need in there. This is a good starting place. Also, Julian Data has an excellent setup guide which you can find at his BlackHole Motorsports, www.bhmotorsports.com I do believe. And yes, the cars are different.

I don't think it's too much of an issue. If you are more comfortable in a Brabham than in a Lotus, the chances are you'll be faster with it in the end. The car you feel most comfortable with is the car you can gain that extra little bit out of per lap. I have found this with the Lotus and the Ferrari. I drove the Ferrari for about 4 months and last week returned to the Lotus. I still don't feel as confident with it as I did with the Ferrari, and as a result I'm still struggling to beat my red car laptimes even though the Lotus is inherently quicker! -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 ________________________________________________________________________________ "I liked things better when I didn't understand them" (Calvin & Hobbes)

Too right Peter! There's definitely something to be said for overcoming psychological barriers in GPL. Several times I have struggled to "break into the next second" at a particular track, but once I did it I knew that I could push hard without the fear of spinning causing me to back off slightly. In fact tonight I beat one of the barriers - I finally ran a 1m18 at Kyalami :-) Woohoooooo! -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 ________________________________________________________________________________ "I liked things better when I didn't understand them" (Calvin & Hobbes)

Sure, practice is key, but if you use a cheap joystick as I do (unless you're a Hot Lap God), there seems to be a definite limit to what you can do. The lousy buttons on my joystick have kept me using auto-shifting too.. anyone know how much time that loses me at the Glen? My limit seems to be 1.06.18 in the Lotus.. and even after all this time, I still spear the guardrail between turns 2 and 3 head-on every other lap when on the limit! (well, except when using the Coventry with Alison's setup) King HotPants Siegfried & Roy's secret love child

>There is *NO* secret to sub 1:10 laptimes. It just requires lots, and >lots, and lots of practice, perseverance, determination and patience, >and maybe a little luck? Actually, there's a secret shortcut in between the trees but the jumps are very tricky... Seriously, though, I've found that you can shave seconds off your time quickly by learning from others (while knowing when to apply your own specific driving style). A few weeks after GPL was released I was stuck in the high 1:07s. After downloading and studying Dave Mansell's then-fastest lap replay of 1:05.3x (as well as using Doug Arnao's stiff Glen setup [when it comes to setting up cars, I always do more harm than good]), I was able to post a 1:05.63. Of course, practice has a lot to do with it as well. As I haven't been playing GPL as often as I did in those days, I've never broken my own time! If only I could find a pair of CH pedals to complement my GP1... Martin Nigel Mansell RIP!

Hi ! In my experience, every GPL car CAN do 1:05 at Glen. It just takes 3 things : practice, practice and (guess what?) practice :o) But not practice with some lame setup, but with the setup you feel confident with. For beginning try to use a bit pushy setup (understeering) - gained with harder front springs then rear springs (about 20-19psi on all tyres is a must), stiffer front anti-roll bar and stiffer front dampers (especially rebound) then rear ones (e.g. 2 at front, 1 at back). And keep ramp angles at 85/30 with 2 clutches (use 3 or more when you think you can handle more power-on oversteer) Also, use more then 200 rear toe-in, it prevents you from spinning when accelerating out of corners and use the same (but negative) amount at front (use less if you can't handle high settings). And for your own sake, make tyre temperature (using camber setting) as even as possible over the whole surface through the corners !! and not on the straight (you can maybe even decrease rear camber one notch for better grip under acceleration out of the corner). Use ride height as low as possible to gain cornering power (you can use 1inch setting at all tracks except Nuerburgring, Monaco and (maybe) Mosport). Also use lower brake ratio (54% for Lotus, 55% for Eagle and Brabham, etc...) Now when you finally hit the 1:06 or 1:05, start using more clutches, less negative front toe-in, set anti-roll-bars to equal (stif, about 130 to 170), play with spring rates and finally remove the front rebound difference to your rear rebound (use the same, e.g. 1 at front and 1 at rear). All that is left is to go out there and start turning laps, start out slowly to get familiar with the car's setup, then start to push gradually. Build on consistency and push harder in each corner every lap. When you start consistently crashing out in a particular corner <g> you (hopefully) know where the limit of that corner is. and forget the 1:03's. This is a lucky lap and it's got to be almost perfect... :o) Let me know if it helps.... Tadej Krevh Lotus Internet Racing http://welcome.to/LotusRacing // how many people would be interested in a GPL performance viewer of which a screenshot can be seen on the page ? ;o)

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> Secret? Its (LOTS OF) practice! I have downloaded 100s of setups, read > tip and hints, tried setting up a car from scratch, modifying other > fast lapper setups, raced the "gentler" cars, etc. All that did one > thing for me. It immersed me in the sim even more and trying all those > things kept me on the track (90% at Watkins Glen, at least I stayed > consistent with that! LOL). My triumph came driving a Ferrari as I > have been wrestling with the red beast of late. I had hit 1:10 in the > Honda but seemed stuck there, and the Ferrari "felt" quicker to me. > Heres the rub. After I broke the 1:10 "barrier" with the Ferrari and > was consistently running 1:08s I hopped in a Lotus. Guess what. After > a few laps I had the Lotus at 1:08. Then the Honda, same thing! So > what I am getting at is IMHO it ISN'T the car (at the 1:08 range > anyway). For me, to go faster I "think" it will require some tweaking > (of whatever car) for my particular style of driving as I am pushing > the edge of control now. > One thing I can say with confidence (that you have probably already > found out). Just because someone has a setup that can hot lap around > the Glen at 1:03xx doesn't mean its ANY good for you. > >:: So, tell us how you did it! > >: > >: Yeah - what's the "under 1:10" secret? > G. Patricks

Cool Graeme! What was your barrier and how'd you do it?? --Dave

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> In fact tonight I beat one of the barriers - I finally ran a 1m18 at > Kyalami :-) Woohoooooo! > -- > Cheers! > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk > ICQ# 11257824 > ________________________________________________________________________________ > "I liked things better when I didn't understand them" > (Calvin & Hobbes)

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Well, I guess with the amount of time I spent on it, it had to come eventually :-) I came back to the Lotus last Friday after a 4-month break and started lapping at Kyalami to get reacquainted with it, and I was running so many laps around 1m19.0x - 1m19.3x it was maddening :-) And then last night I sat down, did an out-lap, ran my first flyer at 1m19.2 and my second at 1m18.9! I think maybe there's another 2-3 tenths to come so I'll have to see :-) I think the key for me was turn 4 (sunset?). I kept sliding wide there and losing speed but I figured out that I had to brake and change down that wee bit earlier... It's kinda like turn 6 at the Glen. Staying tucked to the inside seemed to do the trick..! -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 ________________________________________________________________________________ "Sorry, my eyes were on screensaver" (Calvin & Hobbes)

As a matter of fact, yes, car choice can slow you down. I personally started on the Brabham and can't drive anything but; anything heavier than the Ferarri feels too big & slow, and besides, I love a low revline/great low-end power! -- Kirk Lane ICQ: 28171652