Alison's Brabham setups

Very well done! I just tried them on vroc and was within a tenth of my fastest time at Monza (130.8) and the Glen (108:6), while gaining some consistancy with a very stable setup. Well done, Eagle Woman! -- Jeff "Flex" Flechsing LTO Motorsports

I had to add 5 pounds to the rear springs to keep the rear end from snapping around on me in Curva Grande at Monza - when the fuel load gets real light, the setup is much more stable overall with this slight change. My best with that setup is 1:30.45, but I've seen people do 1:29's with her Monza setup (unchanged). I have to ask - why does everyone feel the need for such high settings on the ARB's in the Brabham? I get similar performance with 70-80 on both bars. Is it just me, or am I missing something? Lastly, I am having a REAL problem keeping the motor together during a race. At what RPM does everyone shift in the Brabham? Max possible RPM appears to be 8600 RPM, and I typically shift between 8300 and 8400. -- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html IGPS (Season 2) Director http://207.104.111.77/igps2/igps2.html If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Thanks for the tip. That might be what I need. Ive just gone from the coventry setups and Im either spinning or going slower than I was in the cov? These setups are killing me!

Hi John... As for bars, well, use what you like best. I find that stiff bars help make the car a bit more responsive. But at Kyalami for instance, I've tried soft bars like you speak of and stiff bars... not a great difference in lap times. But they do feel a bit different, so just decide which you like better. As for blowing motors, how do you see such detailed tach #s?? I can't make out ANY of the numbers on the tach... too small. I just shift at about 10 o-clock on the dial. For a bit more help, download the Brabham ***pit at Andy Olley's site [link lost in import] It's a better looking***pit AND it has a redlined tach! You definitely know where to stop, and it works fabulous. You will NOT blow motors with this redline (if you don't blow shifts). --Dave

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> >Very well done! I just tried them on vroc and was within a tenth of my > >fastest time at Monza (130.8) and the Glen (108:6), while gaining some > >consistancy with a very stable setup. > I had to add 5 pounds to the rear springs to keep the rear end from > snapping around on me in Curva Grande at Monza - when the fuel load > gets real light, the setup is much more stable overall with this slight > change. My best with that setup is 1:30.45, but I've seen people do > 1:29's with her Monza setup (unchanged). > I have to ask - why does everyone feel the need for such high settings on > the ARB's in the Brabham? I get similar performance with 70-80 on both > bars. Is it just me, or am I missing something? > Lastly, I am having a REAL problem keeping the motor together during a > race. At what RPM does everyone shift in the Brabham? Max possible RPM > appears to be 8600 RPM, and I typically shift between 8300 and 8400. > -- > ========================================================= > John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) > http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html > John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector > http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html > IGPS (Season 2) Director > http://207.104.111.77/igps2/igps2.html > If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's > shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

could it be (dare I suggest it?) that some people may be racing in Chase mode where you can see exactly what rpm you have?

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> Hi John... > As for bars, well, use what you like best. I find that stiff bars help > make the car a bit more responsive. But at Kyalami for instance, I've > tried soft bars like you speak of and stiff bars... not a great > difference in lap times. But they do feel a bit different, so just > decide which you like better. > As for blowing motors, how do you see such detailed tach #s?? I can't > make out ANY of the numbers on the tach... too small. I just shift at > about 10 o-clock on the dial. For a bit more help, download the Brabham >***pit at Andy Olley's site > [link lost in import] > It's a better looking***pit AND it has a redlined tach! You definitely > know where to stop, and it works fabulous. You will NOT blow motors with > this redline (if you don't blow shifts). > --Dave > > >Very well done! I just tried them on vroc and was within a tenth of my > > >fastest time at Monza (130.8) and the Glen (108:6), while gaining some > > >consistancy with a very stable setup. > > I had to add 5 pounds to the rear springs to keep the rear end from > > snapping around on me in Curva Grande at Monza - when the fuel load > > gets real light, the setup is much more stable overall with this slight > > change. My best with that setup is 1:30.45, but I've seen people do > > 1:29's with her Monza setup (unchanged). > > I have to ask - why does everyone feel the need for such high settings

on

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> > the ARB's in the Brabham? I get similar performance with 70-80 on both > > bars. Is it just me, or am I missing something? > > Lastly, I am having a REAL problem keeping the motor together during a > > race. At what RPM does everyone shift in the Brabham? Max possible RPM > > appears to be 8600 RPM, and I typically shift between 8300 and 8400. > > -- > > ========================================================= > > John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) > > http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html > > John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector > > http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html > > IGPS (Season 2) Director > > http://207.104.111.77/igps2/igps2.html > > If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's > > shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > ========================================================= > -- > Dave Schwabe > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Tim... you know, I never ran in chase mode, so I didn't even know you could see RPM!! :-) Well, that could make sense then, huh?? I still stand by my recommendations for shift points... Tim, I can't imagine that I am not alone in finding the tach numbers unreadable, am I?? (from in-car that is) --dave

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> could it be (dare I suggest it?) that some people may be racing in Chase > mode where you can see exactly what rpm you have? > > Hi John... > > As for bars, well, use what you like best. I find that stiff bars help > > make the car a bit more responsive. But at Kyalami for instance, I've > > tried soft bars like you speak of and stiff bars... not a great > > difference in lap times. But they do feel a bit different, so just > > decide which you like better. > > As for blowing motors, how do you see such detailed tach #s?? I can't > > make out ANY of the numbers on the tach... too small. I just shift at > > about 10 o-clock on the dial. For a bit more help, download the Brabham > >***pit at Andy Olley's site > > [link lost in import] > > It's a better looking***pit AND it has a redlined tach! You definitely > > know where to stop, and it works fabulous. You will NOT blow motors with > > this redline (if you don't blow shifts). > > --Dave > > > >Very well done! I just tried them on vroc and was within a tenth of my > > > >fastest time at Monza (130.8) and the Glen (108:6), while gaining some > > > >consistancy with a very stable setup. > > > I had to add 5 pounds to the rear springs to keep the rear end from > > > snapping around on me in Curva Grande at Monza - when the fuel load > > > gets real light, the setup is much more stable overall with this slight > > > change. My best with that setup is 1:30.45, but I've seen people do > > > 1:29's with her Monza setup (unchanged). > > > I have to ask - why does everyone feel the need for such high settings > on > > > the ARB's in the Brabham? I get similar performance with 70-80 on both > > > bars. Is it just me, or am I missing something? > > > Lastly, I am having a REAL problem keeping the motor together during a > > > race. At what RPM does everyone shift in the Brabham? Max possible RPM > > > appears to be 8600 RPM, and I typically shift between 8300 and 8400. > > > -- > > > ========================================================= > > > John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) > > > http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html > > > John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector > > > http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html > > > IGPS (Season 2) Director > > > http://207.104.111.77/igps2/igps2.html > > > If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's > > > shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > > ========================================================= > > -- > > Dave Schwabe > > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > > http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

They are. And when I sit in the***pit of my real sports car, I can definetly see the &^%$ing tach numbers. :)

Very true, Chris... Hey Eric Busch or Randy Cassidy... how about readable tachs in Patch 1.1?? -Dave > > Tim, I can't imagine that I am not alone in finding the tach numbers > > unreadable, am I?? (from in-car that is) > They are. And when I sit in the***pit of my real sports car, I can > definetly see the &^%$ing tach numbers. :) -- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Absolutely Dave. Like you I shift at about "10 o'clock" or just past "11 o'clock" in the Lotus. I couldnt possibly say accurately what the RPM is. A friend of mine recently told me he races in chase mode, which certainly doesn't suit me and feels very inauthentic. However I have now programmed a button on my wheel to switch between the views (mapping F10 to the button), so I can start the race on the grid in chase, and thus avoid the carnage, and I then switch back into in-car as soon as I'm clear. I may even become a convert to the A.T. I'm practising Cheers Tim

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> Tim... you know, I never ran in chase mode, so I didn't even know you > could see RPM!! :-) > Well, that could make sense then, huh?? I still stand by my > recommendations for shift points... > Tim, I can't imagine that I am not alone in finding the tach numbers > unreadable, am I?? (from in-car that is) > --dave

Rpm's are clearly visible during replays, which doesn't help much during race, but viewing replays can show you your shift and brake points......Ed --

I drive in chase view - easy to see actual numbers in chase view...

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>As for blowing motors, how do you see such detailed tach #s?? I can't >make out ANY of the numbers on the tach... too small. I just shift at >about 10 o-clock on the dial. For a bit more help, download the Brabham >cockpit at Andy Olley's site >> Lastly, I am having a REAL problem keeping the motor together during a >> race. At what RPM does everyone shift in the Brabham? Max possible >> RPM appears to be 8600 RPM, and I typically shift between 8300 and >> 8400.

-- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html IGPS (Season 2) Director http://207.104.111.77/igps2/igps2.html If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

>A friend of mine recently told me he races in chase mode, which certainly >doesn't suit me and feels very inauthentic. I now race both GPL and N99 the same way, and find that my performance has improved considerably. I find it "inauthentic" to have my eyes locked forward (except for flicks to the left and right), no situational awareness around the race car, and no tach readout. Like another poster, my REAL sports car has a tach and 360-degree vision. Plus, even the AI guys are better than I am, and I need Mark Donohue's "unfair advantage" (long a part of real racing). Anybody else out there willing to confess? Trey Behan

You really think that back in 1967, the drivers could see the tach numbers on the dash ? It was bouncing up and down and tilting like a madman.. You really though they could focus on the numbers wrote on the dash ? Heck I know with my Volvo 850T with smooth shocks It was almost impossible to figure the # (I just shifted by sound and visual cues like a clock), so I can see how incredibly shaky it would be back in those days. Oh yeah I also guess the resolution of the***pit can't be made better. The whole game engine is made that way, I guess it would be hard. Of course I think they will go that way for N3 (increasing the base resolution for the ***pit), so who knows :) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

gEEz Lou-eez. You'd think we were having some sort of soul baring revival. You all chase drivers...(I suspect many TNT lads) you are playing GPL for Chrissakes...not NEED FOR SPEED! Kee-ripes! dave henrie ( :} I'd rather be slower than mud but in the car....)

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>I drive in chase view - easy to see actual numbers in chase view... >>As for blowing motors, how do you see such detailed tach #s?? I can't >>make out ANY of the numbers on the tach... too small. I just shift at >>about 10 o-clock on the dial. For a bit more help, download the Brabham >>cockpit at Andy Olley's site >>> Lastly, I am having a REAL problem keeping the motor together during a >>> race. At what RPM does everyone shift in the Brabham? Max possible >>> RPM appears to be 8600 RPM, and I typically shift between 8300 and >>> 8400. >-- >========================================================= >John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) >http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html >John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector >http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html >IGPS (Season 2) Director >http://207.104.111.77/igps2/igps2.html >If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's >shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. >=========================================================

I always run in the Chase view on GPL. I like knowing exactly where the other cars are around me Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited

My Solo ll Corolla with ver very stiff springs is very readable even on the rough surfaces we race on like old decaying airport concrete. I think it would be easy to read. Also the BT24 I drove many years ago in a Solo ll was very easy to read all the gauges on it. Tho it did not have the Repco V8 it had a Cosworth BDA Formula Atlantic motor in with a redline of over 10,000 RPMs. Dave

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> > You really think that back in 1967, the drivers could see the tach > numbers > > on the dash ? It was bouncing up and down and tilting like a madman.. > You > > really though they could focus on the numbers wrote on the dash ? Heck I > > know with my Volvo 850T with smooth shocks It was almost impossible to > > figure the # (I just shifted by sound and visual cues like a clock), so I > > can see how incredibly shaky it would be back in those days. > My Solo ll Corolla with ver very stiff springs is very readable even on the > rough surfaces we race on like old decaying airport concrete. I think it > would be easy to read. Also the BT24 I drove many years ago in a Solo ll > was very easy to read all the gauges on it. Tho it did not have the Repco > V8 it had a Cosworth BDA Formula Atlantic motor in with a redline of over > 10,000 RPMs. > Dave

If I'm not wrong, in 67, all cars used mechanical tachos. I've raced cars with these lovely Smiths gauges - two things: - They are always turned in the dash, so that max/shift RPM is when the needle is 90 deg upwards. Same goes with all the other gauges, so you can see them in your peripheral vision. Easy to see if something is wrong! - The Smiths Mech tacho has a nice "delay" - it moves in jerks and leaps - nothing like todays smooth electronic operations. You blip, and when the engine is slowing down, the needle jerks up- but on smooth throttle, it is very accurate! Very nice looking dashes can be found at the***pit shop. Matt -- ----------------------------------------- Matthew Knutsen "The Art of Legends" - GPL add-ons www.cheekracing.electra.no/GPL/simrace1.htm -----------------------------------------

I drive in chase view because it's easier for me to see the turns that are coming up, and to more easily judge track width. Being faster is being safer on the track, and if I was in the car, I wouldn't be nearly as fast. Besides that, all of the guages are displayed in text form, so I know how hot the oil and water is getting, what the oil pressure is, etc. Nine to know stuff that you don't get "in-car". To each his own...

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>gEEz Lou-eez. You'd think we were having some >sort of soul baring revival. You all chase drivers...(I suspect >many TNT lads) you are playing GPL for Chrissakes...not >NEED FOR SPEED! Kee-ripes! >dave henrie >( :} I'd rather be slower than mud but in the car....) >>I drive in chase view - easy to see actual numbers in chase view... >>>As for blowing motors, how do you see such detailed tach #s?? I can't >>>make out ANY of the numbers on the tach... too small. I just shift at >>>about 10 o-clock on the dial. For a bit more help, download the >>>Brabham***pit at Andy Olley's site

-- ========================================================= John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html IGPS (Season 2) Director http://207.104.111.77/igps2/igps2.html If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

I'm surprised with all the custom dashboards and tach's out there that nobody has done tach's with READABLE numbers... > > Tim, I can't imagine that I am not alone in finding the tach numbers > > unreadable, am I?? (from in-car that is) > They are. And when I sit in the***pit of my real sports car, I can > definetly see the &^%$ing tach numbers. :)

>> Hey Eric Busch or Randy Cassidy... how about readable tachs in Patch >> 1.1?? >You really think that back in 1967, the drivers could see the tach numbers >on the dash ? It was bouncing up and down and tilting like a madman.. You >really though they could focus on the numbers wrote on the dash ? Heck I This goes back to my idea of a rotated gauges mod. Most race cars (and I assume '67 F1 cars) have their tachs rotated in the dash so that the needle is straight up at either shift rpm or max rpm (driver preference). -- | "Instead of letting the moon be the Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our

Holy ***Dave!! You drove a BT24!! ;-) What was it like?? (even with the newer 4-banger)?? -_Dave

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> > You really think that back in 1967, the drivers could see the tach > numbers > > on the dash ? It was bouncing up and down and tilting like a madman.. > You > > really though they could focus on the numbers wrote on the dash ? Heck I > > know with my Volvo 850T with smooth shocks It was almost impossible to > > figure the # (I just shifted by sound and visual cues like a clock), so I > > can see how incredibly shaky it would be back in those days. > My Solo ll Corolla with ver very stiff springs is very readable even on the > rough surfaces we race on like old decaying airport concrete. I think it > would be easy to read. Also the BT24 I drove many years ago in a Solo ll > was very easy to read all the gauges on it. Tho it did not have the Repco > V8 it had a Cosworth BDA Formula Atlantic motor in with a redline of over > 10,000 RPMs. > Dave

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Frank... I have NO problem with it being unreadable because of bouncing... I'd just like to be able to read it ONCE! ;-) Now, they are total fuzz... Just let me see it in the pits... that's all I'm asking for. I just want to know which numbers are where... and where those translate to what the needle says when I blow it up! :-) --Dave

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> > Hey Eric Busch or Randy Cassidy... how about readable tachs in Patch > > 1.1?? > You really think that back in 1967, the drivers could see the tach numbers > on the dash ? It was bouncing up and down and tilting like a madman.. You > really though they could focus on the numbers wrote on the dash ? Heck I > know with my Volvo 850T with smooth shocks It was almost impossible to > figure the # (I just shifted by sound and visual cues like a clock), so I > can see how incredibly shaky it would be back in those days. > Oh yeah I also guess the resolution of the***pit can't be made better. > The whole game engine is made that way, I guess it would be hard. Of course > I think they will go that way for N3 (increasing the base resolution for the >***pit), so who knows :) > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> > -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ > -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ > -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. > -- May the Downforce be with you... > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Understood, Bill, but the Brab and Honda, I believe, are not at 90 degrees... If you try to wind the Brab up that high, KABOOM! and the Honda spins past 90. I just want to *see* the numbers, just for grins... -_Dave

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> >> Hey Eric Busch or Randy Cassidy... how about readable tachs in Patch > >> 1.1?? > >You really think that back in 1967, the drivers could see the tach numbers > >on the dash ? It was bouncing up and down and tilting like a madman.. You > >really though they could focus on the numbers wrote on the dash ? Heck I > This goes back to my idea of a rotated gauges mod. Most race cars (and I > assume '67 F1 cars) have their tachs rotated in the dash so that the > needle is straight up at either shift rpm or max rpm (driver preference). > -- > | "Instead of letting the moon be the > Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let > Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

It is still done now so you don't have to spend time looking at it. In your perifial vision you see needle stright up you upshift, at least that is how my solo ll car is done. I could read if I wanted to but when you are constantly tieing you arms in knots on a solo ll course why take the time if you don't have too. dave

Back in the 60s, we turned the tachs so the shift point was straight up, precisely because you couldn't read it. DD

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> > Hey Eric Busch or Randy Cassidy... how about readable tachs in Patch > > 1.1?? > You really think that back in 1967, the drivers could see the tach numbers > on the dash ? It was bouncing up and down and tilting like a madman.. You > really though they could focus on the numbers wrote on the dash ? Heck I > know with my Volvo 850T with smooth shocks It was almost impossible to > figure the # (I just shifted by sound and visual cues like a clock), so I > can see how incredibly shaky it would be back in those days. > Oh yeah I also guess the resolution of the***pit can't be made better. > The whole game engine is made that way, I guess it would be hard. Of course > I think they will go that way for N3 (increasing the base resolution for the >***pit), so who knows :) > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> > -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ > -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ > -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. > -- May the Downforce be with you... > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Yes I totally agree. IMHO I think it was just that they didn't had the time to tweak the game engine and allow such thing (increase resolution on certain 2d bitmaps). From what I see, N3 will have that. I can see your point. You still can't blame Papyrus for peripheral vision ;) The widescreen is one genius idea that both increase the FPS and allows for a better peripheral view. -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

>Back in the 60s, we turned the tachs so the shift point was straight up, >precisely because you couldn't read it. Many racers with analog tachs still do that today. I know that my friend and neighbor has his tach rotated this way on his Formula Ford. Dave Ewing

Let me second that! I immediately set new fast laps at Watkins Glen and Zandvoort. Additionally, it may not be the fastest, but it runs around Spa like it's on rails. (not to be confused with rail-riding) Alison, you saved my ***at first with the Coventry setups, but this is the best yet! Thanks ever so much! DD

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> Very well done! I just tried them on vroc and was within a tenth of my > fastest time at Monza (130.8) and the Glen (108:6), while gaining some > consistancy with a very stable setup. > Well done, Eagle Woman! > -- > Jeff "Flex" Flechsing > LTO Motorsports

I've actually created new tachos for each car in GPL that indicates the redline. Well what I think the redline is from the maximum power outputs from the car stats page. All I've done is painted a white marker on the dial where the redline should be. Just as if a driver stuck some masking tape to the dial. It's nothing very attractive or artistic but it does the job, I don't blow up engines now. I've made a utility to update the car .dat files yet. But if anyone who owns a GPL web page wants the updated car .dat files they're welcome to them. -- Rob Yates Found in the Land of OZ http://users.netcon.net.au/ryates/index.htm

IMO clearly the best dashes(cockpit) I've seen in GPL are here: [link lost in import]

You need to remember that the BT24 was essentially a lightweight F2 chassis with the Repco V8 slotted in where, in F2 guise, a 4 cylinder Honda engine would have sat. Yes, it did have a small frontal area but also had a very good power-to-weight ratio. -- Best regards, Bruce. ====== The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff! http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/mullet/index.htm =============================================== >50-65 hp deficit to the other cars. Is it really *THAT* much smaller >in frontal area?

The Brab must have been a killer F2 car! Light and rugged as it is. Do you know, or remember ;-), what cars dominated the F2 series at that time, Bruce? ---Asgeir---

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> You need to remember that the BT24 was essentially a lightweight F2 chassis > with the Repco V8 slotted in where, in F2 guise, a 4 cylinder Honda engine > would have sat. > Yes, it did have a small frontal area but also had a very good > power-to-weight ratio. > -- > Best regards, > Bruce. > ====== > The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff! > http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/mullet/index.htm > =============================================== > >50-65 hp deficit to the other cars. Is it really *THAT* much smaller > >in frontal area?