Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on
those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games.
I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with:
sport suspension
sport seats
and did these mods:
AMS (ABT) Stage II chip - 215HP
KingDragon air filter (K&N style)
KONI yellow sports shocks (fronts adjusted 1 full turn rebound)
Eibach Pro-Kit springs
RONAL G1001 3 piece alloy 17X8.5 wheels
Toyo Proxy T1+ tires in 235/40/ZR17
eliminated the center resonator and replaced with small glasspack (saved
30lbs weight)
4" Suppertrapp rear muffler with no disks (on Dyno, was the best setup - and
also saved near 30lbs)
I raced it this weekend at the track in Pahrump, Nevada - 44 miles out of
Las Vegas.
Now, as for Sports Car GT, take the BMW M3, which is near an A4, yet this
car is FULLY race prepped! Yet in the game it slides all over the track! My
nearly stock Audi A4 and on STREET TIRES, was no where near as slippery as
that M3! And yet the AI cars stick so much better. The same goes for Viper
Racing - the Viper is a much better car than my A4, yet in the game it
drives like shit. And we won't even TALK about Grand Touring, yech! Nor Gran
Turismo.
But now as for TOCA2, . . . . . I have to say that THIS game IS near like
what I was having happen to me while driving my real car. I really get the
feel of being back on the track in this game! Just that I still have a gripe
with the damn AI cars not having to slow way down for the turns like they
should, and seem to have superhuman grip. But in respect to the car you are
driving, it is GREAT!
So for all you diehard armchair sim drivers, before you bash TOCA2, DRIVE A
REAL TRACK FIRST!!!!
--
Thanks
Mike Z
Please remove the *** front and back to reply
Real track day in an Audi compared with TOCA 2
A poster who races his modified Audi A4 described how real cars behaved on track and compared this with sports car sims, finding TOCA 2 too easy. Replies covered front-wheel-drive setup tricks, SCCA Solo as cheap racing, and touring car versus single-seater difficulty, while a troll's jibes about 'rice burners' led to jokes about slow cars.
Automated summary.
Quoted text (15 lines)
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:32:30 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy" > >Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on > >those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games. > >I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with: > >sport suspension > Whoa dude! > >So for all you diehard armchair sim drivers, before you bash TOCA2, DRIVE A > >REAL TRACK FIRST!!!! > Na you need to drive a real car! Thats what your problem is!On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:32:30 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy"
>Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on
>those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games.
>I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with:
>sport suspension
Whoa dude!
Whoa Dude.....That ought to add about 20hp!
Whoa Yellow! Wow-We!
17" wheels on a tonka?
Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod!
Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn
rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000
or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid?
Should have raced further out of town where nobody could have seen ya!
Probally cause it would only go half as fast!
Nah! No Shit?
That game must suck as much as your car then!
Or like your weenie moblile has to!
Na you need to drive a real car! Thats what your problem is!
Oh, Mike!
Not all of us have access to that kind of machinery...which is part of the
reason why we "simrace."
But be that as it may...my friend had a real Dodge Viper, which he describes
as having "knife-in-the-back handling." Tricky is a heck of an
understatement, according to him. I've never driven on a race myself, and
the closest was a friend's IMSA GTU (in 1986) Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo and
another friend's Ferrari Testarossa (apparently, I'm the only one of my
friends who's poor!).
My two cents is that FWD cars handle significantly different than RWD cars.
The Mirage, as compared to other cars, really understeers and gives the
impression that is sticking more, but it was kind of hard to accelerate out
of a bend due to driving and steering the same wheels. Also weight
distribution was "funny." Compared to others, it seemed to stick like crazy
under braking, but then it felt like driving on an ice-rink under
acceleration. I remember similar comments from the IROC gang when they were
using Dodge Daytonas a few years back (also FWD).
Now, I know I run the risk of speaking of stuff I'm not entirely privy to,
but...there's a great difference between a street car setup for average
conditions and a fully adjustable race car. A race car will almost always
feel very loose compared to a streetcar. Even though you describe a lot of
modifications to your A4 (and I'm turning green with envy), I don't think it
approximates the degree of adjustment possible in a race car. Your car is
STILL very heavy compared to a race car in power-to-weight ratio. Race cars
are light because light is fast. But lots of power will make a light car
loose, as the tires struggle with wheelspin. Nothing new for you, I'm sure.
But even a street-going M3 will handle more like your car than like a
race-prepped one.
Oh, heck...just nothing to do at midnight but express my opinion. I
apologize for the "more than two cents." After all, I'm not a race car
driver, I just play one on PC :-)
L.S.
: My two cents is that FWD cars handle significantly different than RWD cars.
: The Mirage, as compared to other cars, really understeers and gives the
: impression that is sticking more, but it was kind of hard to accelerate out
: of a bend due to driving and steering the same wheels. Also weight
Actually, a properly set-up FWD race car has very neutral handling. They
certainly don't plow like a street car. A lot of the autocrossers running
FWDs like Golfs etc. have them set up with an incredible sensitivity to
throttle input, with small lifts doing magic at the back end.
: acceleration. I remember similar comments from the IROC gang when they were
: using Dodge Daytonas a few years back (also FWD).
Except all IROC cars are always tube frame RWD racers with a skin on them.
Stephen
s.net...
Sorry to break this to you Doctor, . . . but an Audi is a GERMAN car,
meaning it runs on sauerkraut and bratwurst :)
> : My two cents is that FWD cars handle significantly different than RWD cars.
> : The Mirage, as compared to other cars, really understeers and gives the
> : impression that is sticking more, but it was kind of hard to accelerate out
> : of a bend due to driving and steering the same wheels. Also weight
> Actually, a properly set-up FWD race car has very neutral handling. They
> certainly don't plow like a street car. A lot of the autocrossers running
> FWDs like Golfs etc. have them set up with an incredible sensitivity to
> throttle input, with small lifts doing magic at the back end.
There is a large VW group in my region of SCCA that are doing this. The
trick with FWD cars is to make the backend stiffer than the front. It helps
compensate for the understeering tendency. Plus it is amazing at how just a
few pounds of tire pressure can make a difference too.
Ahhh, but you are a bit wrong there. SCCA Solo II is the cheapest racing you
can do - it only costs about $25 to enter. And as for machinery, you can run
any car you want, even a pickup truck! There is a class for anything, and
recently they even added a class for go-carts, and there is even a company
that rents the carts for this. Hell, if you even want to do it cheaper, I
know of some folks who have rented the new C5 Vette to run, ha ha.
Hey, I am poor too. But I wanted this car badly, so I made some scarifices.
As to the Mirage Turbo, I had one too! And I used to be pals with Dave Wolen
Racing, who did the IMSA Firehawk events for Mitsubishi (if you ever saw the
Starion race cars, that was Dave), and through him I got HKS (way back under
Luckey Dodge) to install a huge prototype intercooler and chip in my Mirage.
It was one hell of a fast car, but the CRX Si's always got me in the turns
:(
cars.
AMEN to that! I still prefer RWD to FWD, except on wet or ice tracks.
Not to mention that HUGE torque steer!
This I have to disagree with. I have driven a few full race prepped cars,
and they were stiff as hell, and stuck like glue. I also got a ride this
weekend in a BMWCCA Champ's car (used for the BMWCCA Club Racing), and this
car too stuck like glue, stopped on a dime, and had enough "G" forces to
strain my neck in the turns. And at no time did this car feel unstable. It
was awesome! Now someday when the new Audi S4 comes to market in the USA,
that might be close to an M3, but it would need a lot of work to be like
this car.
Don't get green, I paid my dues to get this, and work my ass off. Plus I am
not a kid as the Doctor might have thought. I am 44, and work so damn many
hours in the IS Dept, I hardly have a life. And next to computers, I spend
my time in cars, so most of you have more than I do in your homes. :(
Well, after all my mods, my car is just now starting to handle like an M3.
But stock for stock, the M3 is the most awesome car out there for sale.
Sure, a 911 or Boxster can come close or be better, but still are no where
near as practical as a kick-ass 4 door sedan that the M3 is.
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > Actually, a properly set-up FWD race car has very neutral handling. They > > certainly don't plow like a street car. A lot of the autocrossers running > > FWDs like Golfs etc. have them set up with an incredible sensitivity to > > throttle input, with small lifts doing magic at the back end. > There is a large VW group in my region of SCCA that are doing this. The > trick with FWD cars is to make the backend stiffer than the front. It helps > compensate for the understeering tendency. Plus it is amazing at how just a > few pounds of tire pressure can make a difference too.TOCA 2 is as close to Scalextric racing as I have seen in a "sim". Don't get me
wrong, I love slot cars, but really, if Touring car racing is this easy I might
change professions.
Quoted text (45 lines)
> Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on > those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games. > I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with: > sport suspension > sport seats > and did these mods: > AMS (ABT) Stage II chip - 215HP > KingDragon air filter (K&N style) > KONI yellow sports shocks (fronts adjusted 1 full turn rebound) > Eibach Pro-Kit springs > RONAL G1001 3 piece alloy 17X8.5 wheels > Toyo Proxy T1+ tires in 235/40/ZR17 > eliminated the center resonator and replaced with small glasspack (saved > 30lbs weight) > 4" Suppertrapp rear muffler with no disks (on Dyno, was the best setup - and > also saved near 30lbs) > I raced it this weekend at the track in Pahrump, Nevada - 44 miles out of > Las Vegas. > Now, as for Sports Car GT, take the BMW M3, which is near an A4, yet this > car is FULLY race prepped! Yet in the game it slides all over the track! My > nearly stock Audi A4 and on STREET TIRES, was no where near as slippery as > that M3! And yet the AI cars stick so much better. The same goes for Viper > Racing - the Viper is a much better car than my A4, yet in the game it > drives like shit. And we won't even TALK about Grand Touring, yech! Nor Gran > Turismo. > But now as for TOCA2, . . . . . I have to say that THIS game IS near like > what I was having happen to me while driving my real car. I really get the > feel of being back on the track in this game! Just that I still have a gripe > with the damn AI cars not having to slow way down for the turns like they > should, and seem to have superhuman grip. But in respect to the car you are > driving, it is GREAT! > So for all you diehard armchair sim drivers, before you bash TOCA2, DRIVE A > REAL TRACK FIRST!!!! > -- > Thanks > Mike Z > Please remove the *** front and back to replyPut my Old Mazda RX3 or a new WRX against any of your Yank tanks any day. The Aussie
cops are having to replace their Holden V8 pursuit cars with WRX's cause they can't
keep up with these "rice burners".
Jimbob......was you called that because your mum couldn't decide which of her brothers
was your father...Jim or Bob?
Quoted text (78 lines)
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:32:30 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy" > >Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on > >those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games. > >I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with: > >sport suspension > Whoa dude! > >sport seats > Whoa Dude.....That ought to add about 20hp! > >and did these mods: > >AMS (ABT) Stage II chip - 215HP > >KingDragon air filter (K&N style) > >KONI yellow sports shocks (fronts adjusted 1 full turn rebound) > Whoa Yellow! Wow-We! > >Eibach Pro-Kit springs > >RONAL G1001 3 piece alloy 17X8.5 wheels > 17" wheels on a tonka? > >Toyo Proxy T1+ tires in 235/40/ZR17 > >eliminated the center resonator and replaced with small glasspack (saved > >30lbs weight) > >4" Suppertrapp rear muffler with no disks (on Dyno, was the best setup - and > >also saved near 30lbs) > Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod! > Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn > rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000 > or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid? > >I raced it this weekend at the track at Pahrump Jr. High, Nevada - 44 miles out of > >Las Vegas. > Should have raced further out of town where nobody could have seen ya! > >Now, as for Sports Car GT, take the BMW M3, which is near an A4, yet this > >car is FULLY race prepped! Yet in the game it slides all over the track! My > >nearly stock Audi A4 and on STREET TIRES, was no where near as slippery as > >that M3! > Probally cause it would only go half as fast! > > And yet the AI cars stick so much better. The same goes for Viper > >Racing - the Viper is a much better car than my A4, > Nah! No Shit? > > yet in the game it > >drives like shit. And we won't even TALK about Grand Touring, yech! Nor Gran > >Turismo. > >But now as for TOCA2, . . . . . I have to say that THIS game IS near like > >what I was having happen to me while driving my real car. > That game must suck as much as your car then! > >I really get the > >feel of being back on the track in this game! Just that I still have a gripe > >with the damn AI cars not having to slow way down for the turns like they > >should, > Or like your weenie moblile has to! > >and seem to have superhuman grip. But in respect to the car you are > >driving, it is GREAT! > >So for all you diehard armchair sim drivers, before you bash TOCA2, DRIVE A > >REAL TRACK FIRST!!!! > Na you need to drive a real car! Thats what your problem is!He he......
Quoted text (22 lines)
> > On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:32:30 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy" > > >Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on > > >those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games. > > >I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with: > > >sport suspension > > Whoa dude! > > >So for all you diehard armchair sim drivers, before you bash TOCA2, DRIVE A > > >REAL TRACK FIRST!!!! > > Na you need to drive a real car! Thats what your problem is! > <<A bunch of mindless blathering snipped>> > Whoa dude! Your woman turned you down for the four***th day straight > when you asked for sex, eh?! > I can just feel the frustration.As Anthony reid said himself- Touring Cars are not that exciting or demanding
to drive next to Single Seaters- but the difficulty and closenss of the racing
is beyond anything he'd done before.
Z.
Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.
When you have the knack it does seem that driving a Super Touring car isn't
that hard, after all if John Cleland can do it how hard can it be? :P
The racing is what marks out BTCC and that's what I watch motorsport for.
M
>>TOCA 2 is as close to Scalextric racing as I have seen in a "sim". Don't get me
>>wrong, I love slot cars, but really, if Touring car racing is this easy I might
>>change professions.
>As Anthony reid said himself- Touring Cars are not that exciting or demanding
>to drive next to Single Seaters- but the difficulty and closenss of the racing
>is beyond anything he'd done before.
>Z.
Mike....
> SNIP<
> Audi is a GERMAN car,
> meaning it runs on sauerkraut and bratwurst :)
How ironic!!! Me too!! :-)
--dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Ladies and Gentlemen, for your entertainment, I present tonight's Shew:
*Dr. JimBob*
The Talking LoveChild
of a
Mating Between
Bo Duke and Sporty Spice
Quoted text (78 lines)
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:32:30 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy" > >Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on > >those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games. > >I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with: > >sport suspension > Whoa dude! > >sport seats > Whoa Dude.....That ought to add about 20hp! > >and did these mods: > >AMS (ABT) Stage II chip - 215HP > >KingDragon air filter (K&N style) > >KONI yellow sports shocks (fronts adjusted 1 full turn rebound) > Whoa Yellow! Wow-We! > >Eibach Pro-Kit springs > >RONAL G1001 3 piece alloy 17X8.5 wheels > 17" wheels on a tonka? > >Toyo Proxy T1+ tires in 235/40/ZR17 > >eliminated the center resonator and replaced with small glasspack (saved > >30lbs weight) > >4" Suppertrapp rear muffler with no disks (on Dyno, was the best setup - and > >also saved near 30lbs) > Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod! > Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn > rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000 > or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid? > >I raced it this weekend at the track at Pahrump Jr. High, Nevada - 44 miles out of > >Las Vegas. > Should have raced further out of town where nobody could have seen ya! > >Now, as for Sports Car GT, take the BMW M3, which is near an A4, yet this > >car is FULLY race prepped! Yet in the game it slides all over the track! My > >nearly stock Audi A4 and on STREET TIRES, was no where near as slippery as > >that M3! > Probally cause it would only go half as fast! > > And yet the AI cars stick so much better. The same goes for Viper > >Racing - the Viper is a much better car than my A4, > Nah! No Shit? > > yet in the game it > >drives like shit. And we won't even TALK about Grand Touring, yech! Nor Gran > >Turismo. > >But now as for TOCA2, . . . . . I have to say that THIS game IS near like > >what I was having happen to me while driving my real car. > That game must suck as much as your car then! > >I really get the > >feel of being back on the track in this game! Just that I still have a gripe > >with the damn AI cars not having to slow way down for the turns like they > >should, > Or like your weenie moblile has to! > >and seem to have superhuman grip. But in respect to the car you are > >driving, it is GREAT! > >So for all you diehard armchair sim drivers, before you bash TOCA2, DRIVE A > >REAL TRACK FIRST!!!! > Na you need to drive a real car! Thats what your problem is!hehehe, Jimbob is funny! I wonder what jimbobs big v-8 is? Lets see if this
describes it? It cost a whopping $24.99 from a mail order magazine.
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
MikeBa on the TEN network.
Member of R.O.R. 1999
http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......
Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
mikeba.vcf
< 1K
Download
Quoted text (78 lines)
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:32:30 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy" > >Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on > >those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games. > >I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with: > >sport suspension > Whoa dude! > >sport seats > Whoa Dude.....That ought to add about 20hp! > >and did these mods: > >AMS (ABT) Stage II chip - 215HP > >KingDragon air filter (K&N style) > >KONI yellow sports shocks (fronts adjusted 1 full turn rebound) > Whoa Yellow! Wow-We! > >Eibach Pro-Kit springs > >RONAL G1001 3 piece alloy 17X8.5 wheels > 17" wheels on a tonka? > >Toyo Proxy T1+ tires in 235/40/ZR17 > >eliminated the center resonator and replaced with small glasspack (saved > >30lbs weight) > >4" Suppertrapp rear muffler with no disks (on Dyno, was the best setup - and > >also saved near 30lbs) > Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod! > Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn > rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000 > or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid? > >I raced it this weekend at the track at Pahrump Jr. High, Nevada - 44 miles out of > >Las Vegas. > Should have raced further out of town where nobody could have seen ya! > >Now, as for Sports Car GT, take the BMW M3, which is near an A4, yet this > >car is FULLY race prepped! Yet in the game it slides all over the track! My > >nearly stock Audi A4 and on STREET TIRES, was no where near as slippery as > >that M3! > Probally cause it would only go half as fast! > > And yet the AI cars stick so much better. The same goes for Viper > >Racing - the Viper is a much better car than my A4, > Nah! No Shit? > > yet in the game it > >drives like shit. And we won't even TALK about Grand Touring, yech! Nor Gran > >Turismo. > >But now as for TOCA2, . . . . . I have to say that THIS game IS near like > >what I was having happen to me while driving my real car. > That game must suck as much as your car then! > >I really get the > >feel of being back on the track in this game! Just that I still have a gripe > >with the damn AI cars not having to slow way down for the turns like they > >should, > Or like your weenie moblile has to! > >and seem to have superhuman grip. But in respect to the car you are > >driving, it is GREAT! > >So for all you diehard armchair sim drivers, before you bash TOCA2, DRIVE A > >REAL TRACK FIRST!!!! > Na you need to drive a real car! Thats what your problem is!Forgive Doctor Jimbob Lord, for he is an idiot.
--
Ken's Sig 2.01
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system
of government.
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from
some farcical aquatic ceremony."
Go #43 and #44!
volksy (at) geocities (dot) com
volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com
w
>s.net...
>> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:32:30 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy"
>> >I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with:
>> Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod!
>> Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn
>> rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000
>> or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid?
>Sorry to break this to you Doctor, . . . but an Audi is a GERMAN car,
>meaning it runs on sauerkraut and bratwurst :)
>Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on
>those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games.
>I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with:
>sport suspension
>sport seats
<Znib low end specification>
Hmmm, is that all? Brace yourself, now you get the specs of a REAL
car. Yup it's mine:
SEAT Terra Vance special model '89 with windows at the back!
Used to be white.
Power almost too much to handle, i.e. 29 Bhp. The Horror!
Top end: An astonishing 65 Mph. (With the wind in the back)
Accel. 0-60 Mph. Sorry, battery of stopwatch died.
Wheels: Special rustcoloured version.
4 speed gearbox. First gear tops out at 15 Mph.
Rear suspension: Sheet metall shocks.
Fancy a race?
Remco
Quoted text (13 lines)
>Hmmm, is that all? Brace yourself, now you get the specs of a REAL >car. Yup it's mine: >SEAT Terra Vance special model '89 with windows at the back! >Used to be white. >Power almost too much to handle, i.e. 29 Bhp. The Horror! >Top end: An astonishing 65 Mph. (With the wind in the back) >Accel. 0-60 Mph. Sorry, battery of stopwatch died. >Wheels: Special rustcoloured version. >4 speed gearbox. First gear tops out at 15 Mph. >Rear suspension: Sheet metall shocks. >Fancy a race?WOW, You mean I had a super sports car and didn't know it? (65 VW bug) I
hit 85 mph on a level stretch once. Then I made a boo-boo and didn't pay
attention to what I was doing... I ran for 6 miles in third gear doing 55 to
60 mph and spun a bearing.
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
MikeBa on the TEN network.
Member of R.O.R. 1999
http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......
Race Communications Association
http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
mikeba.vcf
< 1K
Download
Quoted text (18 lines)
> >Hmmm, is that all? Brace yourself, now you get the specs of a REAL > >car. Yup it's mine: > >SEAT Terra Vance special model '89 with windows at the back! > >Used to be white. > >Power almost too much to handle, i.e. 29 Bhp. The Horror! > >Top end: An astonishing 65 Mph. (With the wind in the back) > >Accel. 0-60 Mph. Sorry, battery of stopwatch died. > >Wheels: Special rustcoloured version. > >4 speed gearbox. First gear tops out at 15 Mph. > >Rear suspension: Sheet metall shocks. > >Fancy a race? > i'll take you on. i've got a 1960 american motors metropolitan. it is the > high performance model, so it has a full 55 HP. 0-60 in just under 27 > seconds. 3-speed *** that gets me to third at about 35 MPH. i got going > 67 down a hill in northern california once! suspension? what's that?Wow... what a ride Remco! :-) I don't want to meet that car on any dark
highways... :-)
And no 0-60 time because the stopwatch batteries died?? No problem, just
use that sundial!
:-)
And hey, you must have picked up your wheels at the same place I did...
they sound like they have the same special finish as mine! :-)
--Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (15 lines)
> Hmmm, is that all? Brace yourself, now you get the specs of a REAL > car. Yup it's mine: > SEAT Terra Vance special model '89 with windows at the back! > Used to be white. > Power almost too much to handle, i.e. 29 Bhp. The Horror! > Top end: An astonishing 65 Mph. (With the wind in the back) > Accel. 0-60 Mph. Sorry, battery of stopwatch died. > Wheels: Special rustcoloured version. > 4 speed gearbox. First gear tops out at 15 Mph. > Rear suspension: Sheet metall shocks. > Fancy a race? > RemcoAnd for quite a few of them, you'd lose to.
Racer X
Veteran Sim Racer
Victory Lane-
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/
:> Actually, a properly set-up FWD race car has very neutral handling. They
:> certainly don't plow like a street car. A lot of the autocrossers running
:> FWDs like Golfs etc. have them set up with an incredible sensitivity to
:> throttle input, with small lifts doing magic at the back end.
: There is a large VW group in my region of SCCA that are doing this. The
: trick with FWD cars is to make the backend stiffer than the front. It helps
: compensate for the understeering tendency. Plus it is amazing at how just a
: few pounds of tire pressure can make a difference too.
VW's have always had a big difference in roll-stiffness front to back due
to the twist-beam axle design. that's why they always lift a rear wheel.
Pretty sweet handling trick, I always thought. the opposite is true for a
lot of RWD racers: watch any older 911, Alfa or ford Cortina going hard
and you will see it picking up its inside front wheel on hard cornering.
These little tweaks also work in the sims.
Stephen
But I have a great "Lawn-Boy" mower ready to take u'all on!!! I am a
millionaire with a cement pond.
"Yo Ella' Mae pass me a'nah'der beer & git me shot-gun rat-now"
Words by Jed Clampett
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Quoted text (78 lines)
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:32:30 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy" > >Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on > >those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games. > >I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with: > >sport suspension > Whoa dude! > >sport seats > Whoa Dude.....That ought to add about 20hp! > >and did these mods: > >AMS (ABT) Stage II chip - 215HP > >KingDragon air filter (K&N style) > >KONI yellow sports shocks (fronts adjusted 1 full turn rebound) > Whoa Yellow! Wow-We! > >Eibach Pro-Kit springs > >RONAL G1001 3 piece alloy 17X8.5 wheels > 17" wheels on a tonka? > >Toyo Proxy T1+ tires in 235/40/ZR17 > >eliminated the center resonator and replaced with small glasspack (saved > >30lbs weight) > >4" Suppertrapp rear muffler with no disks (on Dyno, was the best setup - and > >also saved near 30lbs) > Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod! > Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn > rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000 > or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid? > >I raced it this weekend at the track at Pahrump Jr. High, Nevada - 44 miles out of > >Las Vegas. > Should have raced further out of town where nobody could have seen ya! > >Now, as for Sports Car GT, take the BMW M3, which is near an A4, yet this > >car is FULLY race prepped! Yet in the game it slides all over the track! My > >nearly stock Audi A4 and on STREET TIRES, was no where near as slippery as > >that M3! > Probally cause it would only go half as fast! > > And yet the AI cars stick so much better. The same goes for Viper > >Racing - the Viper is a much better car than my A4, > Nah! No Shit? > > yet in the game it > >drives like shit. And we won't even TALK about Grand Touring, yech! Nor Gran > >Turismo. > >But now as for TOCA2, . . . . . I have to say that THIS game IS near like > >what I was having happen to me while driving my real car. > That game must suck as much as your car then! > >I really get the > >feel of being back on the track in this game! Just that I still have a gripe > >with the damn AI cars not having to slow way down for the turns like they > >should, > Or like your weenie moblile has to! > >and seem to have superhuman grip. But in respect to the car you are > >driving, it is GREAT! > >So for all you diehard armchair sim drivers, before you bash TOCA2, DRIVE A > >REAL TRACK FIRST!!!! > Na you need to drive a real car! Thats what your problem is!<snip>
For starters, you dumbass redneck, he is talking about a GERMAN CAR. NOT A
JAPANESE CAR.
Second, stick to a NG where you know at least enough about the subject
matter as to make yourself sound intelligent. The more you write, the less
educated you sound.
Third, he's talking about one of the best production cars in the world. Not
some under-engineered American piston pounder. You strap a big bore V8 to a
go-cart frame, and it's bound to be fast, but to get the same performance
from a car with less than half the displacement, it takes a lot more than
your sixth grade thinking level.
- Ben
www.hotyellow98.com/benfarneman
>TOCA 2 is real arcade,gpl is real sim.
Totally different types of race cars. TOCA2 may not have as realistic
physics engine, but it is still sim. The reason these Touring car drivers
get paid so much is because they're so good in traffic. Watch a race
sometime.
- Ben
www.hotyellow98.com/benfarneman
Hey Remco, this is still better than owning a YUGO!!!! Or what was that East
German car a few years back? I seem to remember that Car & Driver once did a
road test on it. Hilarious it was too!
Uh Simon, . . . . . even in real life, if you went from a Touring Car into a
F1 car (of any vintage), you still would be messed up. They are two
completely different type of cars. And TOCA cars are in reality fairly near
the street cars. The only street car near an F1 is a Lotus Super Seven, or
Europa.
But now if you REALLY want to get messed up, try going from a NASCAR car to
a F1 car! The first right hand turn you'd come upon and you'd be dead :0
Well if that is the case then maybe i should give saloon car racing a go
then because TOCA2 makes it seem VERY VERY VERY easy,and if thats life like
then i wonder why these tourning car drivers get paid so much money for
something that is so easy, get real man .
I would also like to say that if anyone is reading this that is good at GPL
then don't play TOCA2 as it will really fu*k up your car control when you go
back to playing GPL,I know because i have some good times in gpl and after
playing toca2 went on vroc and couldn't stop crashing.
TOCA 2 is real arcade,gpl is real sim.
....
of
> > Las Vegas.
> > Now, as for Sports Car GT, take the BMW M3, which is near an A4, yet this
> > car is FULLY race prepped! Yet in the game it slides all over the track!
> My
> > nearly stock Audi A4 and on STREET TIRES, was no where near as slippery as
> > that M3! And yet the AI cars stick so much better. The same goes for Viper
> > Racing - the Viper is a much better car than my A4, yet in the game it
> > drives like shit. And we won't even TALK about Grand Touring, yech! Nor
> Gran
> > Turismo.
> > But now as for TOCA2, . . . . . I have to say that THIS game IS near like
> > what I was having happen to me while driving my real car. I really get the
> > feel of being back on the track in this game! Just that I still have a
> gripe
> > with the damn AI cars not having to slow way down for the turns like they
> > should, and seem to have superhuman grip. But in respect to the car you
> are
> > driving, it is GREAT!
> > So for all you diehard armchair sim drivers, before you bash TOCA2, DRIVE
like
> then i wonder why these tourning car drivers get paid so much money for
> something that is so easy, get real man .
> I would also like to say that if anyone is reading this that is good at GPL
> then don't play TOCA2 as it will really fu*k up your car control when you go
> back to playing GPL,I know because i have some good times in gpl and after
> playing toca2 went on vroc and couldn't stop crashing.
> TOCA 2 is real arcade,gpl is real sim.
Quoted text (21 lines)
> > Ok, I don't have an old F1 car nor an Indy car, so I can not comment on > > those games. But I CAN comment on sports car games. > > I have a 1998 Audi A4 1.8T (Turbo) FWD that came from the factory with: > > sport suspension > > sport seats > > and did these mods: > > AMS (ABT) Stage II chip - 215HP > > KingDragon air filter (K&N style) > > KONI yellow sports shocks (fronts adjusted 1 full turn rebound) > > Eibach Pro-Kit springs > > RONAL G1001 3 piece alloy 17X8.5 wheels > > Toyo Proxy T1+ tires in 235/40/ZR17 > > eliminated the center resonator and replaced with small glasspack (saved > > 30lbs weight) > > 4" Suppertrapp rear muffler with no disks (on Dyno, was the best setup - > and > > also saved near 30lbs) > > I raced it this weekend at the track in Pahrump, Nevada - 44 miles outQuoted text (11 lines)
> A > > REAL TRACK FIRST!!!! > > -- > > Thanks > > Mike Z > > Please remove the *** front and back to reply > Well if that is the case then maybe i should give saloon car racing a go > then because TOCA2 makes it seem VERY VERY VERY easy,and if thats lifeLove wacthing the BTCC! Much more entertaining than the V8 Supercar series we
have in Australia. However I am sure an accurate sim of Aussie V8 Supercars
would be much more of a challenge to learn and conquer. Just ask Radisish how
hard the Aussie V8's are...he collapsed and had to be carried out of the car
part way through a race in Adelaide on Sunday.....
There are brief moments of close racing with TOCA 2 but when you get in front
there is no Ai drivers riding the curbs or locking the brakes to pass you.You
can back off 1 or 2 seconds a lap and the Ai drivers still wont pass you.
Quoted text (28 lines)
> When you have the knack it does seem that driving a Super Touring car isn't > that hard, after all if John Cleland can do it how hard can it be? :P > The racing is what marks out BTCC and that's what I watch motorsport for. > M > >>TOCA 2 is as close to Scalextric racing as I have seen in a "sim". Don't > get me > >>wrong, I love slot cars, but really, if Touring car racing is this easy I > might > >>change professions. > >As Anthony reid said himself- Touring Cars are not that exciting or > demanding > >to drive next to Single Seaters- but the difficulty and closenss of the > racing > >is beyond anything he'd done before. > >Z.Not when there are wriggly bits as well as long straight bits.
Quoted text (7 lines)
> >Put my Old Mazda RX3 or a new WRX against any of your Yank tanks any day. > And for quite a few of them, you'd lose to. > Racer X > Veteran Sim Racer > Victory Lane- > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/Imagine trying to get spare parts for a YUGO at the moment. You would be on your
way to the YUGO spare part store and BOOM, NATO blows it up because its been
supplying spare parts to the military.......
Nothing is worse than those three wheel cars that were popular in England for a
while and the Mr Bean has trouble with....
Quoted text (19 lines)
> Hey Remco, this is still better than owning a YUGO!!!! Or what was that East > German car a few years back? I seem to remember that Car & Driver once did a > road test on it. Hilarious it was too! > > Hmmm, is that all? Brace yourself, now you get the specs of a REAL > > car. Yup it's mine: > > SEAT Terra Vance special model '89 with windows at the back! > > Used to be white. > > Power almost too much to handle, i.e. 29 Bhp. The Horror! > > Top end: An astonishing 65 Mph. (With the wind in the back) > > Accel. 0-60 Mph. Sorry, battery of stopwatch died. > > Wheels: Special rustcoloured version. > > 4 speed gearbox. First gear tops out at 15 Mph. > > Rear suspension: Sheet metall shocks.Stop it Mark!!! :-( You're killing me!!
I cannot see these series anymore because my lame-ass US cable company
does not have Speedvision (which my old one in Boston did). Speedvision
showed BTCC races AND Aussie touring/super car stuff. That IS awesome
racing.
But you know what I maybe miss the most?? The Aussie Jetboat races!! :-)
That was the damn coolest thing I've ever seen.... a 12-foot boat with a
rollcage and a 440 hemi Dodge motor powering it behind the driver!! What
a rush that would be! :-)
Anyone else ever see these??
--Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (41 lines)
> Love wacthing the BTCC! Much more entertaining than the V8 Supercar series we > have in Australia. However I am sure an accurate sim of Aussie V8 Supercars > would be much more of a challenge to learn and conquer. Just ask Radisish how > hard the Aussie V8's are...he collapsed and had to be carried out of the car > part way through a race in Adelaide on Sunday..... > There are brief moments of close racing with TOCA 2 but when you get in front > there is no Ai drivers riding the curbs or locking the brakes to pass you.You > can back off 1 or 2 seconds a lap and the Ai drivers still wont pass you. > > When you have the knack it does seem that driving a Super Touring car isn't > > that hard, after all if John Cleland can do it how hard can it be? :P > > The racing is what marks out BTCC and that's what I watch motorsport for. > > M > > >>TOCA 2 is as close to Scalextric racing as I have seen in a "sim". Don't > > get me > > >>wrong, I love slot cars, but really, if Touring car racing is this easy I > > might > > >>change professions. > > >As Anthony reid said himself- Touring Cars are not that exciting or > > demanding > > >to drive next to Single Seaters- but the difficulty and closenss of the > > racing > > >is beyond anything he'd done before. > > >Z.>Hey Remco, this is still better than owning a YUGO!!!! Or what was that East
>German car a few years back? I seem to remember that Car & Driver once did a
>road test on it. Hilarious it was too!
That would be the Trabant. Actually, both these ***s outrun me on
the highway....
Remco
hehe... I bet you're glad they don't have these cars in GPL, huh Remco??
--Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (8 lines)
> >Hey Remco, this is still better than owning a YUGO!!!! Or what was that East > >German car a few years back? I seem to remember that Car & Driver once did a > >road test on it. Hilarious it was too! > That would be the Trabant. Actually, both these ***s outrun me on > the highway.... > Remco>hehe... I bet you're glad they don't have these cars in GPL, huh Remco??
Hehe, actually....Once I drove that Terra on the Club Circuit of
Zandvoort. (Is a short version of the one in GPL). It was to get used
to the track, prior to testing a FF1600. We were not allowed to drive
at full speed....yeah right, I had to, if I wanted to keep up with the
rest. Most people were driving sportcars or fast saloons,
There was one other slow car, a plumbers vance, inclusive ladders. We
both had a lot of fun trying to outbrake eachother, and trying to keep
up with the rest. The rest didn't understand us afterwards, that much
fun at such a slow speed. Hehe, still getting a huge grin when I think
about that.
Remco
>Speedvision showed BTCC races AND Aussie touring/super car stuff. That IS awesome
>racing. ^^^^^^^^
Correction, *shows*.
Sorry Dave, couldn't resist that one. ;)
Brett
Ouch!! That hurt!! :-)
--dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (8 lines)
> >Speedvision showed BTCC races AND Aussie touring/super car stuff. That IS awesome > >racing. ^^^^^^^^ > Correction, *shows*. > Sorry Dave, couldn't resist that one. ;) > BrettHehe!! How true! It IS fun to beat the ***out of a slow car
sometimes... you're going really fast, but because the car is slow,
people think you're more or less milking it...
I remember a Chevy press day at Road America (I worked as an auto racing
reporter for a newspaper in my past jobs). There were ZR-1 Corvettes and
the first year of the LT-1 vettes. There were also Z28s, so there was
plenty of horsepower there.
Well, the Vettes were fun, very nice to drive. But we had a pacecar
driver in front of us (Peter Lockhart, a Canadian Pro) and he would go
at a decent clip in the corners, but back off to about 95mph (!) on the
straights. (and there was no passing, ESPECIALLY of the pace car)
My point is that the most fun I had was beating the pee out of a GTZ
Beretta, a four-cylinder two-door with about 190hp. I had to WORK the
thing to keep up... fun!! :-) I got to really wail on it and not worry
about anyone thinking I was driving like a nut because they were in much
faster cars, which to them, seemed like a more sedate pace.
But back in the Vettes, on the last session around the track, on the
last lap, I was right behind Lockhart... he then decided to pick it up
on the straights. Fun! We cranked it up to about 130 or so on the long
ones... I kept hesitating, then accelerating, etc... because he just
kept going, which is far different than before. Not that I minded! What
was really cool was that I stayed with him in the corners and we left
everyone else (of varied driving experience/talent, with Tommy Kendall,
excluded, but he was too far in the pack) behind! It was good fun... I
think we probably scared our passengers a bit! :-)
--Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (15 lines)
> >hehe... I bet you're glad they don't have these cars in GPL, huh Remco?? > Hehe, actually....Once I drove that Terra on the Club Circuit of > Zandvoort. (Is a short version of the one in GPL). It was to get used > to the track, prior to testing a FF1600. We were not allowed to drive > at full speed....yeah right, I had to, if I wanted to keep up with the > rest. Most people were driving sportcars or fast saloons, > There was one other slow car, a plumbers vance, inclusive ladders. We > both had a lot of fun trying to outbrake eachother, and trying to keep > up with the rest. The rest didn't understand us afterwards, that much > fun at such a slow speed. Hehe, still getting a huge grin when I think > about that. > Remco>Hehe!! How true! It IS fun to beat the ***out of a slow car
>sometimes... you're going really fast, but because the car is slow,
>people think you're more or less milking it...
Yup! <VBG>
<Znib>
Yeah, that's the charm of slower cars. It's like in GPL driving a
slower car in mid-pack, were you've to fight for position, instead of
a 15sec lead in the Lotus. I prefer the former any day.
Cool! Elkhart Lake is a great track for that. (This said when I got
the only experience there from ICR2). Sigh, the great moments of
life...
Remco
Im not sure but is this the type of racing that requires a co-pilot on the
boat ? He's acting the same as a Rally driver, but he indicates to the
driver with his arm (indicating where to go) the river. Mostly because the
race track is flat (well it's water ! <g>) so it's difficult to see where to
go in those tight courses.
If it is.. it's great to watch ;))))
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-- May the Downforce be with you...
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
Yeah, the Trabant!!! What a JOKE that was! A tiny square box too! :)
Have any of you seen that weird type of racing called "RALLYCROSS"??? Now
that is bizarre racing! Part Rally, part Road Racing. And the cars are a
riot!
> Stop it Mark!!! :-( You're killing me!!
> > Love wacthing the BTCC! Much more entertaining than the V8 Supercar series we
> > have in Australia. However I am sure an accurate sim of Aussie V8 Supercars
> > would be much more of a challenge to learn and conquer. Just ask Radisish how
> > hard the Aussie V8's are...he collapsed and had to be carried out of the car
> > part way through a race in Adelaide on Sunday.....
s.net...
A
> >JAPANESE CAR.
> German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, whatever its still an import and a
> front wheel drive to boot! And as far as being a Redneck I'm damn
> pround of it!
PROUND of it? Yikes, here is an example of our poor USA Education system.
Anyway, Doctor, I do NOT consider a German car to be in the same class as
vehicles made out of old Coke cans. German cars are finely handcrafted by
artisans, not overpaid Union workers who can't seem to put the right number
of bolts on to hold a trunk lid. And take Porsche for example = this car is
still hand made, and by workers who are PROUD (not PROUND) of their work.
And seeing as you mention FORD below, what do you say about English Ford
then? Or German Ford???? And the Contour we have originated in Europe as the
Mondeo - are THESE junk too???? I guess you'd rather drive the new (SIC)
Taurus?????
Have you shaved your head yet? You sure are sounding like a skinhead, ugh!
Well, I would not go so far as to say it is the BEST production car - the
BMW M3 is, and so is the Porsche 911. But an Audi is up there though.
I think as your punishment, we will strap you into a YUGO CONVERTIBLE and
force you to drive that around your town!!! :)
Well, if you want to talk MUSTANGS, then you have the WRONG ONE! The 73 was
a LAND YACHT! So large, you need mirrors on the front of the hood to see if
you can turn onto the street from a driveway. And it might go in a straight
line ok, but wait till you get to a turn, DOH! Nope, if you want to talk
CLASSIC Mustang, then I'd suggest the 69-72 BOSS 302 or Mach 1. That was
more of a sports car. Or better yet, a GT350/450.
And as for blowing away anything small and foreign, . . . . well I used to
have a buddy with a Jensen Healy. It was a small Brit sports car with a
Lotus 2.2L Twin Cam engine. When we were racing at Road America with the
Alfa Club, he was on the track at the same time as a bunch of Vintage Racers
driving their Shelby Mustangs. On the straights they pull away from him a
bit, but on the turns he'd blow them away by a LARGE amount. So you have to
remember, races are NOT won in the straights, but in the TURNS. And your 73
Mach 1 is no where NEAR as good as a Shelby!
Quoted text (7 lines)
> ><snip> > >>Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod! > >>Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn > >>rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000 > >>or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid? > >For starters, you dumbass redneck, he is talking about a GERMAN CAR. NOTThree wheel car was a Reliant Robin, I think? It would have to be pommie,
wouldn't it! :)
The two-stroke East German car you would be thinking of is probably the
Trabant.
--
Rob.
>Imagine trying to get spare parts for a YUGO at the moment. You would be on
your
>way to the YUGO spare part store and BOOM, NATO blows it up because its
been
>supplying spare parts to the military.......
>Nothing is worse than those three wheel cars that were popular in England
for a
>while and the Mr Bean has trouble with....
>> Hey Remco, this is still better than owning a YUGO!!!! Or what was that
East
>> German car a few years back? I seem to remember that Car & Driver once
did a
>> road test on it. Hilarious it was too!
>> > Hmmm, is that all? Brace yourself, now you get the specs of a REAL
>> > car. Yup it's mine:
>> > SEAT Terra Vance special model '89 with windows at the back!
>> > Used to be white.
>> > Power almost too much to handle, i.e. 29 Bhp. The Horror!
>> > Top end: An astonishing 65 Mph. (With the wind in the back)
>> > Accel. 0-60 Mph. Sorry, battery of stopwatch died.
>> > Wheels: Special rustcoloured version.
>> > 4 speed gearbox. First gear tops out at 15 Mph.
>> > Rear suspension: Sheet metall shocks.
Quoted text (8 lines)
><snip> >>Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod! >>Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn >>rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000 >>or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid? >For starters, you dumbass redneck, he is talking about a GERMAN CAR. NOT A >JAPANESE CAR.writes:
You sure he even HAS a woman...? Maybe you should have said GOAT...
__
Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea...
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Geez! Road America - my old Home away from Home for many years (1974 till
1984). I raced there with the Alfa Club a few times (2 Italian guys used to
show up with a Lancia Stratos even!), was a Pit Marshal, Paddock Marshal,
and best of all, a Course Marshal (I got to drive the course after every
race, and sometime flat tow some race cars in - I had a loud white 79 RX7
back then, maybe you might have seen it on the track at that time????).
My favorite turn there was Turn 5 - both to watch, and to drive! It was a
real hairy turn, and was awesome in my RX7 with headers and a 5" Suppertrapp
gutted to be an open megaphone. I used to have flames spitting out as I
braked and downshifted for that turn - just like the old Racing Beat IMSA
GTU RX7's. Made GREAT pictures.
And after having driven that track, not even Riverside could compare. There
is simply NO OTHER TRACK as good as RA. I miss it so damn much, being stuck
here in SoCal - where they tore down Riverside and Ontario, only had Willow
for awhile out in the horrid desert, and now just recently built a ROUND
track (Cal Speedway owned by Penske). BORING!!!!!
By the way, did you ever know Tom Peacock? He was head of the Course
Marshals for a long time, and I used to go out with his Daughter Sandy
(that's how I got to be one, ha ha - but I DID and still do LOVE her, where
ever she is now . . . . . ). Or Bill Hurt, or Claire Ball????
And OOoooooooh do I miss that Steak joint in Santa Ana (spelling????), I
think it too was called Seibkins??? This is the one about a 1/2 hour away
from the track, not the Seibkins in town.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> Hehe!! How true! It IS fun to beat the ***out of a slow car > sometimes... you're going really fast, but because the car is slow, > people think you're more or less milking it... > I remember a Chevy press day at Road America (I worked as an auto racing > reporter for a newspaper in my past jobs). There were ZR-1 Corvettes and > the first year of the LT-1 vettes. There were also Z28s, so there was > plenty of horsepower there.Jimbob, you've got a hot button the size of Georgia! A couple of lines
defending good foreign engineering, and you get all sorts of defensive! It
is fairly entertaining to read, though.
BTW, I'm American through and through, own a Ford Explorer, and am as Hetero
as they come, so you're way off.
- Ben
www.hotyellow98.com/benfarneman
A
less
Quoted text (7 lines)
>><snip> >>>Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod! >>>Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn >>>rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000 >>>or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid? >>For starters, you dumbass redneck, he is talking about a GERMAN CAR. NOTQuoted text (8 lines)
>>JAPANESE CAR. >German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, whatever its still an import and a >front wheel drive to boot! And as far as being a Redneck I'm damn >pround of it! >>Second, stick to a NG where you know at least enough about the subject >>matter as to make yourself sound intelligent. The more you write, theQuoted text (28 lines)
>>educated you sound. >The more you write the more you sound more like a ***! >>Third, he's talking about one of the best production cars in the world. >The best production car in the world is a front wheel drive 4cyl? >Gimme a break! Geez I be emabarassed to be seen in anything like that. >In my part of the country only ***s and women drive ***like that! >> Not >>some under-engineered American piston pounder. >Under Engineered American Piston Pounder? What was wrong with good ole >American V-8 musle cars? Who are you? Some kind of Anti-American >Communist ***! >> You strap a big bore V8 to a >>go-cart frame, and it's bound to be fast, but to get the same performance >>from a car with less than half the displacement, it takes a lot more than >>your sixth grade thinking level. >Tell ya what I got an old 73 Mach I Mustang in the garage with a 351 >Cleveland that will blow away anything you got especially any little >wimpy front wheel drive foreign weenie mobile! >>- Ben >>www.hotyellow98.com/benfarnemanYou could just run over to the Fiat store, since a Yugo was just an old Fiat.
The problem is, Fiat makes mediocre cars. When one gets too old to make
anymore, they sell it to Yugo. Stir in a little socialism, something which has
never worked anywhere, and you get a hell of a mess.
Donald McCorkle
Libertarian Motorsports
In your part of the country you also marry your sisters. How else
would you breed something so moronic as yourself?
--
Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors
Alfa Romeo - Super Touring - Club Cars
http://fullspeed.to/astc
Australian Super Touring Championship
News and Information
> Have any of you seen that weird type of racing called "RALLYCROSS"??? Now
> that is bizarre racing! Part Rally, part Road Racing. And the cars are a
> riot!
Yep, it's very popular here in Sweden, the cars used to be rallycars,
but nowadays RC uses more open rules, so you can have 700+ bhp
firebreathing cars that accelarates like a Formula 1 (obviously with a
lot less topspeed though..) and hit the gravelparts doin ~100mph :)
Rallycross-racing is what I call racing!
/Stefan
--
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hehe!! Yeah! That's it! :-) That looks like a blast, doesn't it! :-)
Hey, now there's a good idea for a sim!! :-)
--Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (22 lines)
> > But you know what I maybe miss the most?? The Aussie Jetboat races!! :-) > > That was the damn coolest thing I've ever seen.... a 12-foot boat with a > > rollcage and a 440 hemi Dodge motor powering it behind the driver!! What > > a rush that would be! :-) > Im not sure but is this the type of racing that requires a co-pilot on the > boat ? He's acting the same as a Rally driver, but he indicates to the > driver with his arm (indicating where to go) the river. Mostly because the > race track is flat (well it's water ! <g>) so it's difficult to see where to > go in those tight courses. > If it is.. it's great to watch ;)))) > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> > -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ > -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ > -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. > -- May the Downforce be with you... > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."Yep, Mike, that is seriously fun (looking) too!!
We need a rallycross sim, too!! :-)
--Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (18 lines)
> Have any of you seen that weird type of racing called "RALLYCROSS"??? Now > that is bizarre racing! Part Rally, part Road Racing. And the cars are a > riot! > > Stop it Mark!!! :-( You're killing me!! > > > Love wacthing the BTCC! Much more entertaining than the V8 Supercar > series we > > > have in Australia. However I am sure an accurate sim of Aussie V8 > Supercars > > > would be much more of a challenge to learn and conquer. Just ask > Radisish how > > > hard the Aussie V8's are...he collapsed and had to be carried out of the > car > > > part way through a race in Adelaide on Sunday.....Mike... yes RA is fabulous!! :-)
To any of my European, British or Aussie friends that have not had the
pleasure to be there, it is really a fabulous circuit and site. I can't
think of any CART drivers that don't rank it as THE favorite, or in the
top 3.
I know a guy who travels about 100K miles a year for his job and he is a
BIG F1 fan.... he's been to almost all the tracks. Anyway, he says Road
America is the Spa of North America. Have to agree... the only thing
missing is Eau Rouge (tough set of corners to beat :-)). The circuit is
fast and long and is very hilly and tree-lined. A real gem. I can't wait
until the full ICR-GPL converter comes out!! :-)
Mike, I don't remember the car you drove... but *anything* around RA is
a joy...
The names you mention don't sound familiar, with the exception of Claire
Ball... not sure why that sounds familiar, tho...
And yep... the restaurant that serves steak IS Siebkens... and the food
is still good! :-)
Hope you can get back someday... or at least get to Laguna, for one of
North America's other really nice road courses...
--Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (38 lines)
> Geez! Road America - my old Home away from Home for many years (1974 till > 1984). I raced there with the Alfa Club a few times (2 Italian guys used to > show up with a Lancia Stratos even!), was a Pit Marshal, Paddock Marshal, > and best of all, a Course Marshal (I got to drive the course after every > race, and sometime flat tow some race cars in - I had a loud white 79 RX7 > back then, maybe you might have seen it on the track at that time????). > My favorite turn there was Turn 5 - both to watch, and to drive! It was a > real hairy turn, and was awesome in my RX7 with headers and a 5" Suppertrapp > gutted to be an open megaphone. I used to have flames spitting out as I > braked and downshifted for that turn - just like the old Racing Beat IMSA > GTU RX7's. Made GREAT pictures. > And after having driven that track, not even Riverside could compare. There > is simply NO OTHER TRACK as good as RA. I miss it so damn much, being stuck > here in SoCal - where they tore down Riverside and Ontario, only had Willow > for awhile out in the horrid desert, and now just recently built a ROUND > track (Cal Speedway owned by Penske). BORING!!!!! > By the way, did you ever know Tom Peacock? He was head of the Course > Marshals for a long time, and I used to go out with his Daughter Sandy > (that's how I got to be one, ha ha - but I DID and still do LOVE her, where > ever she is now . . . . . ). Or Bill Hurt, or Claire Ball???? > And OOoooooooh do I miss that Steak joint in Santa Ana (spelling????), I > think it too was called Seibkins??? This is the one about a 1/2 hour away > from the track, not the Seibkins in town. > > Hehe!! How true! It IS fun to beat the ***out of a slow car > > sometimes... you're going really fast, but because the car is slow, > > people think you're more or less milking it... > > I remember a Chevy press day at Road America (I worked as an auto racing > > reporter for a newspaper in my past jobs). There were ZR-1 Corvettes and > > the first year of the LT-1 vettes. There were also Z28s, so there was > > plenty of horsepower there.Hey Kneel and Bob, I mean Jimbob:
When you think real hard duz yer head hurt? The guys original post was actually
very good. He had some seat time with a quality car on a track and he is
offering a comparison to sims for those of us without the seat time. And you
whip out your red neck ego and kill the guy for no good reason. So sick of
***s like you. Were you born a degenerate *** or have you worked at it
your whole life? Oh yeah, call me a "***" too, nice come back, you're quite
the gifted debater (master-debater). Do you squeal like a pig you inbred
moron? BTW, I've owned a bullshit American V-8. That was 10 years ago when I
was ignorant and immature (kind of like the way you'll spend your entire life).
I currently own the first "real car" of my life, an Audi A-6. No American car
can compare to a German driving machine. Yes, I'm American. Does that mean I
should blindly love the mediocrity we produce? I understand the American auto
makers strategy. Low prices, shot gun racks, trailer hitches, easily
pronounceable names, and bright shiny colors so guys like you can drool and run
out and buy one when you trade in your double wide. You can keep your straight
line shit box. Oh, Daddy didn't buy it for me, I actually have a job. You know
the thing your wife does while you sit home drinking Bud while watching Jerry
Springer.
<<snipped mindless drivel>>
Well, I am not an Audi fan or a red neck, but here are some great
American cars. anything made by a Texan named Carroll Shelby, 67 to 72
Camaros, and 93 to newer Camaros, Dodge Intrepid ( mine never left me
stranded in 125,000 miles), Dodge Stratus winner of the now defunct North
American Touring Car series. Cheverolet Corvette, Dodge Viper. This is a
short list and is my opinion so it may not agree with everyone. I am a car
fan particularly racing cars, but I do get sick of stupid people which
would include the orginal poster who called someone a *** and the guy
who claims Americans cannot build good cars. I do also remember a time
when you bought an Audi the serivce contract on them was twice as much as
any other car, due to its track record. I also get tired of guys who put
else they are immature.
Dave
<snipped *even more* mindless drivel>
Unbelieveable. Gosh, I'm glad Joe wasn't around ten years ago!
Jack Rambo
Since I haven't had the joy of the latter, I'd like to try THAT first... :)
__
Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea...
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Was I talking to you? No, I was talking to the *** who attacks the
original post without merit. He was a hostile *** for no reason, sort of
like you. I was not posting to pick a fight with American car fans, I was
purposely screwing with the idiot Jimbob. I know there are some fine American
cars. In my opinion, they do not compare to German cars. What current
American car compares to a 911? None, correct. It's ok to have my own
opinion, isn't it? It's also ok to slam a shit for brains who ATTACKS AN
INNOCENT POST FOR NO REASON. Do you think I give a shit what you think about
anything? So why do you feel compelled to get involved? You criticize me for
getting in the mix with the ***plug Jimbob, because you are an *** and
Quoted text (15 lines)
> Well, I am not an Audi fan or a red neck, but here are some great > American cars. anything made by a Texan named Carroll Shelby, 67 to 72 > Camaros, and 93 to newer Camaros, Dodge Intrepid ( mine never left me > stranded in 125,000 miles), Dodge Stratus winner of the now defunct North > American Touring Car series. Cheverolet Corvette, Dodge Viper. This is a > short list and is my opinion so it may not agree with everyone. I am a car > fan particularly racing cars, but I do get sick of stupid people which > would include the orginal poster who called someone a *** and the guy > who claims Americans cannot build good cars. I do also remember a time > when you bought an Audi the serivce contract on them was twice as much as > any other car, due to its track record. I also get tired of guys who put > else they are immature. > DaveJoe,
You just proved my point. The first person who has to use that kind of
language lost the discussion. And there is an american car that is eating
the 911 alive in both United States road racing and in the FIA GT races. I
will let you figue that one out on your own.
Dave, who is still at the same email address not some infantile one.
> Was I talking to you? No, I was talking to the *** who attacks the
> original post without merit. He was a hostile *** for no reason, sort of
> like you. I was not posting to pick a fight with American car fans, I was
> purposely screwing with the idiot Jimbob. I know there are some fine American
> cars. In my opinion, they do not compare to German cars. What current
> American car compares to a 911? None, correct. It's ok to have my own
> opinion, isn't it? It's also ok to slam a shit for brains who ATTACKS AN
> INNOCENT POST FOR NO REASON. Do you think I give a shit what you think about
> anything? So why do you feel compelled to get involved? You criticize me for
> getting in the mix with the ***plug Jimbob, because you are an *** and
Have you seen it when those powerboats dive down like a submarine and little bits
float to the surface.....cool!
Quoted text (65 lines)
> Stop it Mark!!! :-( You're killing me!! > I cannot see these series anymore because my lame-ass US cable company > does not have Speedvision (which my old one in Boston did). Speedvision > showed BTCC races AND Aussie touring/super car stuff. That IS awesome > racing. > But you know what I maybe miss the most?? The Aussie Jetboat races!! :-) > That was the damn coolest thing I've ever seen.... a 12-foot boat with a > rollcage and a 440 hemi Dodge motor powering it behind the driver!! What > a rush that would be! :-) > Anyone else ever see these?? > --Dave > > Love wacthing the BTCC! Much more entertaining than the V8 Supercar series we > > have in Australia. However I am sure an accurate sim of Aussie V8 Supercars > > would be much more of a challenge to learn and conquer. Just ask Radisish how > > hard the Aussie V8's are...he collapsed and had to be carried out of the car > > part way through a race in Adelaide on Sunday..... > > There are brief moments of close racing with TOCA 2 but when you get in front > > there is no Ai drivers riding the curbs or locking the brakes to pass you.You > > can back off 1 or 2 seconds a lap and the Ai drivers still wont pass you. > > > When you have the knack it does seem that driving a Super Touring car isn't > > > that hard, after all if John Cleland can do it how hard can it be? :P > > > The racing is what marks out BTCC and that's what I watch motorsport for. > > > M > > > >>TOCA 2 is as close to Scalextric racing as I have seen in a "sim". Don't > > > get me > > > >>wrong, I love slot cars, but really, if Touring car racing is this easy I > > > might > > > >>change professions. > > > >As Anthony reid said himself- Touring Cars are not that exciting or > > > demanding > > > >to drive next to Single Seaters- but the difficulty and closenss of the > > > racing > > > >is beyond anything he'd done before. > > > >Z. > -- > Dave Schwabe > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > http://users.wi.net/~schwabeHow did you outbreak him, open a window?
Quoted text (15 lines)
> >hehe... I bet you're glad they don't have these cars in GPL, huh Remco?? > Hehe, actually....Once I drove that Terra on the Club Circuit of > Zandvoort. (Is a short version of the one in GPL). It was to get used > to the track, prior to testing a FF1600. We were not allowed to drive > at full speed....yeah right, I had to, if I wanted to keep up with the > rest. Most people were driving sportcars or fast saloons, > There was one other slow car, a plumbers vance, inclusive ladders. We > both had a lot of fun trying to outbrake eachother, and trying to keep > up with the rest. The rest didn't understand us afterwards, that much > fun at such a slow speed. Hehe, still getting a huge grin when I think > about that. > RemcoMake the mouth whole in your white pillowcase bigger...its cutting of your
oxygen!
Make the eye holes bigger as well and look at the calendar...it's 1999, not
1959.
Quoted text (43 lines)
> ><snip> > >>Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod! > >>Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn > >>rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000 > >>or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid? > >For starters, you dumbass redneck, he is talking about a GERMAN CAR. NOT A > >JAPANESE CAR. > German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, whatever its still an import and a > front wheel drive to boot! And as far as being a Redneck I'm damn > pround of it! > >Second, stick to a NG where you know at least enough about the subject > >matter as to make yourself sound intelligent. The more you write, the less > >educated you sound. > The more you write the more you sound more like a ***! > >Third, he's talking about one of the best production cars in the world. > The best production car in the world is a front wheel drive 4cyl? > Gimme a break! Geez I be emabarassed to be seen in anything like that. > In my part of the country only ***s and women drive ***like that! > > Not > >some under-engineered American piston pounder. > Under Engineered American Piston Pounder? What was wrong with good ole > American V-8 musle cars? Who are you? Some kind of Anti-American > Communist ***! > > You strap a big bore V8 to a > >go-cart frame, and it's bound to be fast, but to get the same performance > >from a car with less than half the displacement, it takes a lot more than > >your sixth grade thinking level. > Tell ya what I got an old 73 Mach I Mustang in the garage with a 351 > Cleveland that will blow away anything you got especially any little > wimpy front wheel drive foreign weenie mobile! > >- Ben > >www.hotyellow98.com/benfarnemanWhy try reasoning with him. If afly crawled in his ear it would be a space
invader!
Quoted text (71 lines)
> s.net... > > ><snip> > > >>Whoa Dude, What a badass car. A guenuine tonka 4 cyl hot rod! > > >>Get ya an American car with a V8 and be a real man. 4cyl foriegn > > >>rice burners are for ***s!!!!! Dont matter if they cost $30,000 > > >>or not! Daddy must giva a big allowance huh kid? > > >For starters, you dumbass redneck, he is talking about a GERMAN CAR. NOT > A > > >JAPANESE CAR. > > German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, whatever its still an import and a > > front wheel drive to boot! And as far as being a Redneck I'm damn > > pround of it! > PROUND of it? Yikes, here is an example of our poor USA Education system. > Anyway, Doctor, I do NOT consider a German car to be in the same class as > vehicles made out of old Coke cans. German cars are finely handcrafted by > artisans, not overpaid Union workers who can't seem to put the right number > of bolts on to hold a trunk lid. And take Porsche for example = this car is > still hand made, and by workers who are PROUD (not PROUND) of their work. > And seeing as you mention FORD below, what do you say about English Ford > then? Or German Ford???? And the Contour we have originated in Europe as the > Mondeo - are THESE junk too???? I guess you'd rather drive the new (SIC) > Taurus????? > > >Second, stick to a NG where you know at least enough about the subject > > >matter as to make yourself sound intelligent. The more you write, the > less > > >educated you sound. > > The more you write the more you sound more like a ***! > Have you shaved your head yet? You sure are sounding like a skinhead, ugh! > > >Third, he's talking about one of the best production cars in the world. > Well, I would not go so far as to say it is the BEST production car - the > BMW M3 is, and so is the Porsche 911. But an Audi is up there though. > > The best production car in the world is a front wheel drive 4cyl? > > Gimme a break! Geez I be emabarassed to be seen in anything like that. > > In my part of the country only ***s and women drive ***like that! > I think as your punishment, we will strap you into a YUGO CONVERTIBLE and > force you to drive that around your town!!! :) > > Tell ya what I got an old 73 Mach I Mustang in the garage with a 351 > > Cleveland that will blow away anything you got especially any little > > wimpy front wheel drive foreign weenie mobile! > Well, if you want to talk MUSTANGS, then you have the WRONG ONE! The 73 was > a LAND YACHT! So large, you need mirrors on the front of the hood to see if > you can turn onto the street from a driveway. And it might go in a straight > line ok, but wait till you get to a turn, DOH! Nope, if you want to talk > CLASSIC Mustang, then I'd suggest the 69-72 BOSS 302 or Mach 1. That was > more of a sports car. Or better yet, a GT350/450. > And as for blowing away anything small and foreign, . . . . well I used to > have a buddy with a Jensen Healy. It was a small Brit sports car with a > Lotus 2.2L Twin Cam engine. When we were racing at Road America with the > Alfa Club, he was on the track at the same time as a bunch of Vintage Racers > driving their Shelby Mustangs. On the straights they pull away from him a > bit, but on the turns he'd blow them away by a LARGE amount. So you have to > remember, races are NOT won in the straights, but in the TURNS. And your 73 > Mach 1 is no where NEAR as good as a Shelby!Used to be very popular in Australia in ther early 70's. A good combination of
rally drivers and rally cars and touring cars with mud tyres driven by the top
touring car jockeys was the order of the day. There were so much fender bending
it tended to appeal to the grunters more than the dedicated motor racing fans.
Quoted text (18 lines)
> Have any of you seen that weird type of racing called "RALLYCROSS"??? Now > that is bizarre racing! Part Rally, part Road Racing. And the cars are a > riot! > > Stop it Mark!!! :-( You're killing me!! > > > Love wacthing the BTCC! Much more entertaining than the V8 Supercar > series we > > > have in Australia. However I am sure an accurate sim of Aussie V8 > Supercars > > > would be much more of a challenge to learn and conquer. Just ask > Radisish how > > > hard the Aussie V8's are...he collapsed and had to be carried out of the > car > > > part way through a race in Adelaide on Sunday.....How does Jimbob know when his mother is having her period?
His brothers*** tastes different!
Quoted text (15 lines)
> >The best production car in the world is a front wheel drive 4cyl? > >Gimme a break! Geez I be emabarassed to be seen in anything like that. > >In my part of the country only ***s and women drive ***like that! > In your part of the country you also marry your sisters. How else > would you breed something so moronic as yourself? > -- > Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors > Alfa Romeo - Super Touring - Club Cars > http://fullspeed.to/astc > Australian Super Touring Championship > News and InformationWHOA there guys, . . . . .
I am the one who did the original post. I didn't mean to start you two off
on each other, so please don't get into it, ok? And as for JimBob, I take
him with a grain of salt and a laugh :)
As for cars, there ARE some American cars I appreciate. And there are some
real kick-ass American cars out there - new SVT Mustang (at LAST they added
Independent Rear Suspension - but is it too little too late???), SVT
Contour, Camaro SS (but this COULD be the Camaro's last year, sadly - but
when I drove one, it was too big for my tastes and my type of racing -
AutoX), Viper (but a REAL handful to drive and the most expen$ive to insure
cuz of drivers who have the bucks but no brains when they drive it), and I
am REAL impressed with the new C5 Vette HARDTOP (but this Vette still has
quality control problems, and it still can't compensate for a bad driver -
as proved when I was behind one at the Pahrump, Nevada track - he took all
the wrong lines, was holding me up in the turns, but would NOT let me pass
in the allowed straights where he had the HP over me - and damn near got me
killed when I was on his tail at the end of the straight and he nailed his
brakes too hard too early, got squirrelly and made me have to break while
turning almost causing me to go off the track!).
But you do have to admit, the new BMW "M" Coupe is a killer car as well as
the M3. But in the Tennessee Region SCCA, Mark Sipe is killing ALL the cars
in the lesser HP BMW 2.8 Coupe - even in the rain! And the new Audi TT Coupe
(UGLY!) is going to be a killer when the 225HP Quattro version comes out, as
well as the new S4. And the new A6 will be coming with the 4.2L V8!!!!
As for the FIA GT Racing, I don't think the Panoz is killing them, it is the
Mercedes CLK LM's that it racking up the wins. But in the USA SCGT, the
Panoz and Vipers were doing quite well. But in its class (GT2 and GT3), the
BMW M3's are kicking ass.
Now, back to my original thoughts when I made my post - I think before many
folks flame a game and say it is, or is not a sim, they should try to get
some real track time to make a real comparison. It could be a local AutoX,
or a "Driver's School. Audi, BMW, PCA (Porsche), Alfa Romeo, NASA, Midwest
Council, etc Clubs DO put on track events. An AutoX could be as low as $10 -
$30 an event, where Driver's Schools could cost from $100 - $300 - but once
you try it, you are HOOKED! :) And you don't need a real F1 or Ferrari to
enter these. As a matter of fact, for a first timer, a SLOW car is best! You
are able to react better and LEARN the correct LINES on the turns with a
slower car. I read the remarks of an instructor from one of the BMW Driver's
Schools - almost everyone had a tricked out M3, tons of HP and sticky
tires - but none knew how to drive them right. Well, after the first half
hour, he was chunking it up BIG TIME! No matter how good a driver YOU are,
being a passenger in a high HP car with a nutcase, thus a helpless
passenger - who wouldn't have a near death experience?
Anyway, of all the sims I have been playing, for MY type of racing, TOCA2
seems to help me best with practicing for the REAL thing. Then SCGT might be
next, once I get the finished product. And Viper isn't too bad. But GPL, F1,
GT, NFS, Test Drive, and others don't fit the bill for my needs. And now
that I have the Logitech Formula FF wheel, I can feel even more so that I am
on the track in TOCA2. Reason being, after some track time in a near stock
vehicle (compared to a real race car), my car was simply NOT that loose on
the track as most games make them out to, except for when I had to brake
hard in an emergency and while turning, when I had to avoid that C5 Vette
mentioned above. My car felt nice and stable, and near neutral in the turns.
I think that perhaps the games exaggerate cars handling to make it more
exciting for us, but instead make it less real for me.
> Joe,
> You just proved my point. The first person who has to use that kind of
> language lost the discussion. And there is an american car that is eating
> the 911 alive in both United States road racing and in the FIA GT races. I
AN
> > INNOCENT POST FOR NO REASON. Do you think I give a shit what you think
> about
> > anything? So why do you feel compelled to get involved? You criticize
> me for
> > getting in the mix with the ***plug Jimbob, because you are an ***
> and
Quoted text (17 lines)
> will let you figue that one out on your own. > Dave, who is still at the same email address not some infantile one. > > Was I talking to you? No, I was talking to the *** who attacks the > > original post without merit. He was a hostile *** for no reason, sort > of > > like you. I was not posting to pick a fight with American car fans, I > was > > purposely screwing with the idiot Jimbob. I know there are some fine > American > > cars. In my opinion, they do not compare to German cars. What current > > American car compares to a 911? None, correct. It's ok to have my own > > opinion, isn't it? It's also ok to slam a shit for brains who ATTACKSJoe: 1 David: 0
Quoted text (33 lines)
> Was I talking to you? No, I was talking to the *** who attacks the > original post without merit. He was a hostile *** for no reason, sort of > like you. I was not posting to pick a fight with American car fans, I was > purposely screwing with the idiot Jimbob. I know there are some fine American > cars. In my opinion, they do not compare to German cars. What current > American car compares to a 911? None, correct. It's ok to have my own > opinion, isn't it? It's also ok to slam a shit for brains who ATTACKS AN > INNOCENT POST FOR NO REASON. Do you think I give a shit what you think about > anything? So why do you feel compelled to get involved? You criticize me for > getting in the mix with the ***plug Jimbob, because you are an *** and > > Well, I am not an Audi fan or a red neck, but here are some great > > American cars. anything made by a Texan named Carroll Shelby, 67 to 72 > > Camaros, and 93 to newer Camaros, Dodge Intrepid ( mine never left me > > stranded in 125,000 miles), Dodge Stratus winner of the now defunct North > > American Touring Car series. Cheverolet Corvette, Dodge Viper. This is a > > short list and is my opinion so it may not agree with everyone. I am a car > > fan particularly racing cars, but I do get sick of stupid people which > > would include the orginal poster who called someone a *** and the guy > > who claims Americans cannot build good cars. I do also remember a time > > when you bought an Audi the serivce contract on them was twice as much as > > any other car, due to its track record. I also get tired of guys who put > > else they are immature. > > DaveJoe: 1 David: 1
Quoted text (28 lines)
> Joe, > You just proved my point. The first person who has to use that kind of > language lost the discussion. And there is an american car that is eating > the 911 alive in both United States road racing and in the FIA GT races. I > will let you figue that one out on your own. > Dave, who is still at the same email address not some infantile one. > > Was I talking to you? No, I was talking to the *** who attacks the > > original post without merit. He was a hostile *** for no reason, sort > of > > like you. I was not posting to pick a fight with American car fans, I > was > > purposely screwing with the idiot Jimbob. I know there are some fine > American > > cars. In my opinion, they do not compare to German cars. What current > > American car compares to a 911? None, correct. It's ok to have my own > > opinion, isn't it? It's also ok to slam a shit for brains who ATTACKS AN > > INNOCENT POST FOR NO REASON. Do you think I give a shit what you think > about > > anything? So why do you feel compelled to get involved? You criticize > me for > > getting in the mix with the ***plug Jimbob, because you are an *** > andQuoted text (8 lines)
>Joe, >You just proved my point. The first person who has to use that kind of >language lost the discussion. And there is an american car that is eating >the 911 alive in both United States road racing and in the FIA GT races. I >will let you figue that one out on your own. >Dave, who is still at the same email address not some infantile one.French euroweenies too. I love how American race fans always point to the
Viper and perviously the Panoz and say "See we can build race cars at least
the equal of yours" and forget that the former are only beating everything
else because of Oreca and the latter DAMS and DPR :)
Maybe the new Cadillac open top sports car can repair the damage. Then
again, looking at the Mustang, maybe not.
M
On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:00:41 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy"
>vehicle (compared to a real race car), my car was simply NOT that loose on
>the track as most games make them out to, except for when I had to brake
>hard in an emergency and while turning, when I had to avoid that C5 Vette
>mentioned above. My car felt nice and stable, and near neutral in the turns.
>I think that perhaps the games exaggerate cars handling to make it more
>exciting for us, but instead make it less real for me.
Mike,
I can see where you're coming from, but the big factor is your car
isnt travelling fast enough. Cars can feel very stable on the track
when going slower than their potential, which very few drivers reach.
To reach it you have to be driving at 100% of the cars capability,
which is out of reach to mos drivers because of fear, skill, or
insurance! :)
When you're really racing hard, you have to tread a fine line between
smooth flowing lines, and being on the ragged edge. And I dont mean
powerslidig out of every turn etc etc, I mean keeping the car
teetering between oversteer and neutral going around a fast bend etc
etc. Some games such as TOCA and TOCA 2 exaggerate this slightly, but
make no mistake, balancing one of those cars is a tricky act,
especially when your tyres and wheels are only a touch over 8" wide!
While your car is nicely modified, and no doubt handles well, it's not
being pushed to its limits and nor is the driver. That is what
separates us from the professionals, and our cars from real racecars.
--
Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors
Alfa Romeo - Super Touring - Club Cars
http://fullspeed.to/astc
Australian Super Touring Championship
News and Information
Hehe, we were TRYING to outbrake eachother.
Remco
Quoted text (15 lines)
>> >hehe... I bet you're glad they don't have these cars in GPL, huh Remco?? >> Hehe, actually....Once I drove that Terra on the Club Circuit of >> Zandvoort. (Is a short version of the one in GPL). It was to get used >> to the track, prior to testing a FF1600. We were not allowed to drive >> at full speed....yeah right, I had to, if I wanted to keep up with the >> rest. Most people were driving sportcars or fast saloons, >> There was one other slow car, a plumbers vance, inclusive ladders. We >> both had a lot of fun trying to outbrake eachother, and trying to keep >> up with the rest. The rest didn't understand us afterwards, that much >> fun at such a slow speed. Hehe, still getting a huge grin when I think >> about that. >> RemcoNathan, I fully understand what you are saying, and agree, except for one
point. I WAS pushing my car to 100% - I was racing it on a real racetrack
and pushing it hard. In the sweepers I had the car at its limit, that fine
line you were talking about between under/oversteer. And the point where I
had to brake hard to evade that Vette was as the end of the straight where I
was hitting near 130mph. I have been racing my cars since 1974, so I figure
that I am not your average driver. And I have a large room full of trophies
from those good years. So again, except for where my car got a bit wobbly
under extreme emergency braking, I kept the car in good balance (as I AM a
smooth driver), and still feel that most games exaggerate the car's handling
to make an armchair racer feel like he might be experiencing a conception of
what might be real racing.
As for tracks, I have raced at these that I can remember:
Road America (MY FAVORITE forever!!!!) - usually with the local Alfa Club
too!
Riverside (Turn 9 was awesome) again with the Alfa Club
Blackhawk Farms (owner was in the pavement business, so you never knew what
road surface you'd be on from one turn to the next)
Grattan
Lake Geneva Speedway
Rockford Speedway
US 30 Speedway
IRP (the other track, not the 500 one)
Milwaukee (they do have sort of a road course in the infield)
Utica Kart Track
various other large go-kart tracks
Portage Grand Prix (street AutoX in Indiana)
Lincoln GP (street AutoX at Capitol in Illinois)
Jordan Ford/Toyota GP (street AutoX in Missewaga - ????? Indiana)
and many, many other places and tracks I have forgotten.
So please trust me on this Nathan, I have been around (the track, ha ha) a
few times in my 44 years. And I also used to be able to beat "Crazy" Peter
"PD" Cunningham, my old buddy from Milwaukee who went from AutoX to SCCA
Rally, then Road Racing for King Honda, then to NSX sponsored by Acura, and
now in the PTG BMW M3's (which happen to be in the SCGT game).
Oh, and Nathan, I do have tires/wheels slightly over 8" wide - I have Toyo
Proxy T1+ (235/40/17) mounted on Ronal G1001 (17X8.5) alloys.
> On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:00:41 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy"
> >vehicle (compared to a real race car), my car was simply NOT that loose on
> >the track as most games make them out to, except for when I had to brake
> >hard in an emergency and while turning, when I had to avoid that C5 Vette
> >mentioned above. My car felt nice and stable, and near neutral in the turns.
Quoted text (32 lines)
> >I think that perhaps the games exaggerate cars handling to make it more > >exciting for us, but instead make it less real for me. > Mike, > I can see where you're coming from, but the big factor is your car > isnt travelling fast enough. Cars can feel very stable on the track > when going slower than their potential, which very few drivers reach. > To reach it you have to be driving at 100% of the cars capability, > which is out of reach to mos drivers because of fear, skill, or > insurance! :) > When you're really racing hard, you have to tread a fine line between > smooth flowing lines, and being on the ragged edge. And I dont mean > powerslidig out of every turn etc etc, I mean keeping the car > teetering between oversteer and neutral going around a fast bend etc > etc. Some games such as TOCA and TOCA 2 exaggerate this slightly, but > make no mistake, balancing one of those cars is a tricky act, > especially when your tyres and wheels are only a touch over 8" wide! > While your car is nicely modified, and no doubt handles well, it's not > being pushed to its limits and nor is the driver. That is what > separates us from the professionals, and our cars from real racecars. > -- > Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors > Alfa Romeo - Super Touring - Club Cars > http://fullspeed.to/astc > Australian Super Touring Championship > News and InformationMike! Man, here you go again! :-)
I've been to almost all the places you have too... also from a
autocrossing perspective. Big fun.
And if you've beaten Peter Cunningham, trust me folks, Mike is doing
pretty damn well. As Mike said, Pete is a pro and one of the best you'll
find at going fast in *anything* at *any course* be it auto-x, or road
course.
Mike, were have you beaten PD?
-_Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (85 lines)
> Nathan, I fully understand what you are saying, and agree, except for one > point. I WAS pushing my car to 100% - I was racing it on a real racetrack > and pushing it hard. In the sweepers I had the car at its limit, that fine > line you were talking about between under/oversteer. And the point where I > had to brake hard to evade that Vette was as the end of the straight where I > was hitting near 130mph. I have been racing my cars since 1974, so I figure > that I am not your average driver. And I have a large room full of trophies > from those good years. So again, except for where my car got a bit wobbly > under extreme emergency braking, I kept the car in good balance (as I AM a > smooth driver), and still feel that most games exaggerate the car's handling > to make an armchair racer feel like he might be experiencing a conception of > what might be real racing. > As for tracks, I have raced at these that I can remember: > Road America (MY FAVORITE forever!!!!) - usually with the local Alfa Club > too! > Riverside (Turn 9 was awesome) again with the Alfa Club > Blackhawk Farms (owner was in the pavement business, so you never knew what > road surface you'd be on from one turn to the next) > Grattan > Lake Geneva Speedway > Rockford Speedway > US 30 Speedway > IRP (the other track, not the 500 one) > Milwaukee (they do have sort of a road course in the infield) > Utica Kart Track > various other large go-kart tracks > Portage Grand Prix (street AutoX in Indiana) > Lincoln GP (street AutoX at Capitol in Illinois) > Jordan Ford/Toyota GP (street AutoX in Missewaga - ????? Indiana) > and many, many other places and tracks I have forgotten. > So please trust me on this Nathan, I have been around (the track, ha ha) a > few times in my 44 years. And I also used to be able to beat "Crazy" Peter > "PD" Cunningham, my old buddy from Milwaukee who went from AutoX to SCCA > Rally, then Road Racing for King Honda, then to NSX sponsored by Acura, and > now in the PTG BMW M3's (which happen to be in the SCGT game). > Oh, and Nathan, I do have tires/wheels slightly over 8" wide - I have Toyo > Proxy T1+ (235/40/17) mounted on Ronal G1001 (17X8.5) alloys. > > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:00:41 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy" > > >vehicle (compared to a real race car), my car was simply NOT that loose > on > > >the track as most games make them out to, except for when I had to brake > > >hard in an emergency and while turning, when I had to avoid that C5 Vette > > >mentioned above. My car felt nice and stable, and near neutral in the > turns. > > >I think that perhaps the games exaggerate cars handling to make it more > > >exciting for us, but instead make it less real for me. > > Mike, > > I can see where you're coming from, but the big factor is your car > > isnt travelling fast enough. Cars can feel very stable on the track > > when going slower than their potential, which very few drivers reach. > > To reach it you have to be driving at 100% of the cars capability, > > which is out of reach to mos drivers because of fear, skill, or > > insurance! :) > > When you're really racing hard, you have to tread a fine line between > > smooth flowing lines, and being on the ragged edge. And I dont mean > > powerslidig out of every turn etc etc, I mean keeping the car > > teetering between oversteer and neutral going around a fast bend etc > > etc. Some games such as TOCA and TOCA 2 exaggerate this slightly, but > > make no mistake, balancing one of those cars is a tricky act, > > especially when your tyres and wheels are only a touch over 8" wide! > > While your car is nicely modified, and no doubt handles well, it's not > > being pushed to its limits and nor is the driver. That is what > > separates us from the professionals, and our cars from real racecars. > > -- > > Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors > > Alfa Romeo - Super Touring - Club Cars > > http://fullspeed.to/astc > > Australian Super Touring Championship > > News and InformationBecause Peter was in Milwaukee, Wisc - and I was from Steger, ILL - we
didn't get to race against each other a whole lot. But There were special
events that many of us came from all over to attend. The Portage Grand Prix
in Portage, Indiana was always the best. It started as a 1 day street Autox,
and in 2 years turned into a week long festival (complete with carnival,
Queen crowning, and more). Peter and I both had Mazda RX7's at the time, and
until I built mine up into Street Prepared, I beat him every year at
Portage - but we were REAL close (fractions of a second). There were also
some events that were part of the Tri-State Championship Series (Chicago
SCCA was a member club of this) that Peter and Mike Stern (Jensen Healey)
and other Wisconsinites would come down to join - where Peter and I would
mix it up a bit. After awhile, there were more Street Grand Prix's in
Indiana and Illinois - and those too I won my class and was faster than
Peter, but he was in stock class and I now was in Street Prepared. I won my
SP class 4 years in a row too in Tri-State, so did quite well. And when it
came for track events (the ones I listed), I never lost a one. I had a
natural talent then, and the balls to go with it. But I am a wee bit rusty
now, as well as older. So needless to say, it took a day and a half to get
back to "speed". I don't think I could be as daring again - being older, car
more expensive, and now wanting to be able to drive home - but I do still
push as much as I can to the limits (within reason).
But back then Peter and I had been good friends too. Hell, I trusted him so
much, that when he moved on to road racing in Showroom Stock driving Kent
McCord's (from Adam 12 TV show) old RX7 at Road America- I let them remove
my rear axle to use, as he bent his in practice. It was the only race I
sweated bullets that I was not even driving in (it was nearly a 4 hour drive
home from there). And as it was, the rear seals started to leak, so PD
started using a slower black Mustang in front of him for breaking help going
into Turn 5 cause my rear shoes were now soaking wet. But then in 1984 I
moved to SoCal and we lost touch, and in 1987 I quit racing. During that
time, Peter went to driving Honda's and getting sponsored by King Honda -
the Mugen Importer, and got noticed. That led to sponsorship eventually from
Honda, then Acura and a drive in the NSX. And now he is with BMW! I got to
see and talk to him a couple of years ago when I flew in to Road America,
and he did remember me and we had a few moments of nostalgia. But at the F1
GT races at Laguna, the only thing I could do was get a wave from him, and
he tossed me a SCGT hat. Damn, I wanted the M3 hat, oh well . . .
one
> > point. I WAS pushing my car to 100% - I was racing it on a real racetrack
> > and pushing it hard. In the sweepers I had the car at its limit, that fine
> > line you were talking about between under/oversteer. And the point where I
> > had to brake hard to evade that Vette was as the end of the straight where I
> > was hitting near 130mph. I have been racing my cars since 1974, so I figure
> > that I am not your average driver. And I have a large room full of trophies
> > from those good years. So again, except for where my car got a bit wobbly
> > under extreme emergency braking, I kept the car in good balance (as I AM a
> > smooth driver), and still feel that most games exaggerate the car's handling
> > to make an armchair racer feel like he might be experiencing a conception of
> > what might be real racing.
> > As for tracks, I have raced at these that I can remember:
> > Road America (MY FAVORITE forever!!!!) - usually with the local Alfa Club
> > too!
> > Riverside (Turn 9 was awesome) again with the Alfa Club
> > Blackhawk Farms (owner was in the pavement business, so you never knew what
a
> > few times in my 44 years. And I also used to be able to beat "Crazy" Peter
> > "PD" Cunningham, my old buddy from Milwaukee who went from AutoX to SCCA
> > Rally, then Road Racing for King Honda, then to NSX sponsored by Acura, and
> > now in the PTG BMW M3's (which happen to be in the SCGT game).
> > Oh, and Nathan, I do have tires/wheels slightly over 8" wide - I have Toyo
loose
> > on
> > > >the track as most games make them out to, except for when I had to brake
> > > >hard in an emergency and while turning, when I had to avoid that C5 Vette
> > > >mentioned above. My car felt nice and stable, and near neutral in the
> > turns.
> > > >I think that perhaps the games exaggerate cars handling to make it more
Quoted text (18 lines)
> Mike! Man, here you go again! :-) > I've been to almost all the places you have too... also from a > autocrossing perspective. Big fun. > And if you've beaten Peter Cunningham, trust me folks, Mike is doing > pretty damn well. As Mike said, Pete is a pro and one of the best you'll > find at going fast in *anything* at *any course* be it auto-x, or road > course. > Mike, were have you beaten PD? > -_Dave > > Nathan, I fully understand what you are saying, and agree, except forQuoted text (15 lines)
> > road surface you'd be on from one turn to the next) > > Grattan > > Lake Geneva Speedway > > Rockford Speedway > > US 30 Speedway > > IRP (the other track, not the 500 one) > > Milwaukee (they do have sort of a road course in the infield) > > Utica Kart Track > > various other large go-kart tracks > > Portage Grand Prix (street AutoX in Indiana) > > Lincoln GP (street AutoX at Capitol in Illinois) > > Jordan Ford/Toyota GP (street AutoX in Missewaga - ????? Indiana) > > and many, many other places and tracks I have forgotten. > > So please trust me on this Nathan, I have been around (the track, ha ha)Quoted text (9 lines)
> > Proxy T1+ (235/40/17) mounted on Ronal G1001 (17X8.5) alloys. > > > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:00:41 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy" > > > >vehicle (compared to a real race car), my car was simply NOT thatQuoted text (36 lines)
> > > >exciting for us, but instead make it less real for me. > > > Mike, > > > I can see where you're coming from, but the big factor is your car > > > isnt travelling fast enough. Cars can feel very stable on the track > > > when going slower than their potential, which very few drivers reach. > > > To reach it you have to be driving at 100% of the cars capability, > > > which is out of reach to mos drivers because of fear, skill, or > > > insurance! :) > > > When you're really racing hard, you have to tread a fine line between > > > smooth flowing lines, and being on the ragged edge. And I dont mean > > > powerslidig out of every turn etc etc, I mean keeping the car > > > teetering between oversteer and neutral going around a fast bend etc > > > etc. Some games such as TOCA and TOCA 2 exaggerate this slightly, but > > > make no mistake, balancing one of those cars is a tricky act, > > > especially when your tyres and wheels are only a touch over 8" wide! > > > While your car is nicely modified, and no doubt handles well, it's not > > > being pushed to its limits and nor is the driver. That is what > > > separates us from the professionals, and our cars from real racecars. > > > -- > > > Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors > > > Alfa Romeo - Super Touring - Club Cars > > > http://fullspeed.to/astc > > > Australian Super Touring Championship > > > News and Information > -- > Dave Schwabe > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > http://users.wi.net/~schwabeHow do you outbreak someone? Have a better crash than them?
<G>
--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash
http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
ICQ# 11257824
________________________________________________________________________________
"My forward mobility became impaired"
(Brett Lunger, post-crash)
Cool story Mike... it is funny how the right amount of $$ and especially
the right breaks are what separate the pros from the, from the....
well... from the GPL drivers!! :-)
-_Dave
PS -- All other sims are included in the last statement! :-)
Mike Zamarocy wrote:
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
Quoted text (166 lines)
> Because Peter was in Milwaukee, Wisc - and I was from Steger, ILL - we > didn't get to race against each other a whole lot. But There were special > events that many of us came from all over to attend. The Portage Grand Prix > in Portage, Indiana was always the best. It started as a 1 day street Autox, > and in 2 years turned into a week long festival (complete with carnival, > Queen crowning, and more). Peter and I both had Mazda RX7's at the time, and > until I built mine up into Street Prepared, I beat him every year at > Portage - but we were REAL close (fractions of a second). There were also > some events that were part of the Tri-State Championship Series (Chicago > SCCA was a member club of this) that Peter and Mike Stern (Jensen Healey) > and other Wisconsinites would come down to join - where Peter and I would > mix it up a bit. After awhile, there were more Street Grand Prix's in > Indiana and Illinois - and those too I won my class and was faster than > Peter, but he was in stock class and I now was in Street Prepared. I won my > SP class 4 years in a row too in Tri-State, so did quite well. And when it > came for track events (the ones I listed), I never lost a one. I had a > natural talent then, and the balls to go with it. But I am a wee bit rusty > now, as well as older. So needless to say, it took a day and a half to get > back to "speed". I don't think I could be as daring again - being older, car > more expensive, and now wanting to be able to drive home - but I do still > push as much as I can to the limits (within reason). > But back then Peter and I had been good friends too. Hell, I trusted him so > much, that when he moved on to road racing in Showroom Stock driving Kent > McCord's (from Adam 12 TV show) old RX7 at Road America- I let them remove > my rear axle to use, as he bent his in practice. It was the only race I > sweated bullets that I was not even driving in (it was nearly a 4 hour drive > home from there). And as it was, the rear seals started to leak, so PD > started using a slower black Mustang in front of him for breaking help going > into Turn 5 cause my rear shoes were now soaking wet. But then in 1984 I > moved to SoCal and we lost touch, and in 1987 I quit racing. During that > time, Peter went to driving Honda's and getting sponsored by King Honda - > the Mugen Importer, and got noticed. That led to sponsorship eventually from > Honda, then Acura and a drive in the NSX. And now he is with BMW! I got to > see and talk to him a couple of years ago when I flew in to Road America, > and he did remember me and we had a few moments of nostalgia. But at the F1 > GT races at Laguna, the only thing I could do was get a wave from him, and > he tossed me a SCGT hat. Damn, I wanted the M3 hat, oh well . . . > schwabe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Mike! Man, here you go again! :-) > > I've been to almost all the places you have too... also from a > > autocrossing perspective. Big fun. > > And if you've beaten Peter Cunningham, trust me folks, Mike is doing > > pretty damn well. As Mike said, Pete is a pro and one of the best you'll > > find at going fast in *anything* at *any course* be it auto-x, or road > > course. > > Mike, were have you beaten PD? > > -_Dave > > Mike Zamarocy wrote: > > > Nathan, I fully understand what you are saying, and agree, except for > one > > > point. I WAS pushing my car to 100% - I was racing it on a real > racetrack > > > and pushing it hard. In the sweepers I had the car at its limit, that > fine > > > line you were talking about between under/oversteer. And the point where > I > > > had to brake hard to evade that Vette was as the end of the straight > where I > > > was hitting near 130mph. I have been racing my cars since 1974, so I > figure > > > that I am not your average driver. And I have a large room full of > trophies > > > from those good years. So again, except for where my car got a bit > wobbly > > > under extreme emergency braking, I kept the car in good balance (as I AM > a > > > smooth driver), and still feel that most games exaggerate the car's > handling > > > to make an armchair racer feel like he might be experiencing a > conception of > > > what might be real racing. > > > As for tracks, I have raced at these that I can remember: > > > Road America (MY FAVORITE forever!!!!) - usually with the local Alfa > Club > > > too! > > > Riverside (Turn 9 was awesome) again with the Alfa Club > > > Blackhawk Farms (owner was in the pavement business, so you never knew > what > > > road surface you'd be on from one turn to the next) > > > Grattan > > > Lake Geneva Speedway > > > Rockford Speedway > > > US 30 Speedway > > > IRP (the other track, not the 500 one) > > > Milwaukee (they do have sort of a road course in the infield) > > > Utica Kart Track > > > various other large go-kart tracks > > > Portage Grand Prix (street AutoX in Indiana) > > > Lincoln GP (street AutoX at Capitol in Illinois) > > > Jordan Ford/Toyota GP (street AutoX in Missewaga - ????? Indiana) > > > and many, many other places and tracks I have forgotten. > > > So please trust me on this Nathan, I have been around (the track, ha ha) > a > > > few times in my 44 years. And I also used to be able to beat "Crazy" > Peter > > > "PD" Cunningham, my old buddy from Milwaukee who went from AutoX to SCCA > > > Rally, then Road Racing for King Honda, then to NSX sponsored by Acura, > and > > > now in the PTG BMW M3's (which happen to be in the SCGT game). > > > Oh, and Nathan, I do have tires/wheels slightly over 8" wide - I have > Toyo > > > Proxy T1+ (235/40/17) mounted on Ronal G1001 (17X8.5) alloys. > > > Nathan Wong <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:00:41 -0700, "Mike Zamarocy" > > > > <[email hidden]***> wrote: > > > > >vehicle (compared to a real race car), my car was simply NOT that > loose > > > on > > > > >the track as most games make them out to, except for when I had to > brake > > > > >hard in an emergency and while turning, when I had to avoid that C5 > Vette > > > > >mentioned above. My car felt nice and stable, and near neutral in the > > > turns. > > > > >I think that perhaps the games exaggerate cars handling to make it > more > > > > >exciting for us, but instead make it less real for me. > > > > Mike, > > > > I can see where you're coming from, but the big factor is your car > > > > isnt travelling fast enough. Cars can feel very stable on the track > > > > when going slower than their potential, which very few drivers reach. > > > > To reach it you have to be driving at 100% of the cars capability, > > > > which is out of reach to mos drivers because of fear, skill, or > > > > insurance! :) > > > > When you're really racing hard, you have to tread a fine line between > > > > smooth flowing lines, and being on the ragged edge. And I dont mean > > > > powerslidig out of every turn etc etc, I mean keeping the car > > > > teetering between oversteer and neutral going around a fast bend etc > > > > etc. Some games such as TOCA and TOCA 2 exaggerate this slightly, but > > > > make no mistake, balancing one of those cars is a tricky act, > > > > especially when your tyres and wheels are only a touch over 8" wide! > > > > While your car is nicely modified, and no doubt handles well, it's not > > > > being pushed to its limits and nor is the driver. That is what > > > > separates us from the professionals, and our cars from real racecars. > > > > -- > > > > Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors > > > > Alfa Romeo - Super Touring - Club Cars > > > > [email hidden] V8Supercars - Formula One - CART > > > > http://fullspeed.to/astc > > > > Australian Super Touring Championship > > > > News and Information > > -- > > Dave Schwabe > > The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site > > http://users.wi.net/~schwabeMy friends Hyundai 1.5 Litre buzz box has an electronic brake. The button says A/C
which he swears means Air Conditioning but whenever he presses it the cars loses 40
KMH.
Quoted text (18 lines)
> >How did you outbreak him, open a window? > How do you outbreak someone? Have a better crash than them? > <G> > -- > Cheers! > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk > ICQ# 11257824 > ________________________________________________________________________________ > "My forward mobility became impaired" > (Brett Lunger, post-crash):>
:> Im not sure but is this the type of racing that requires a co-pilot on the
:> boat ? He's acting the same as a Rally driver, but he indicates to the
:> driver with his arm (indicating where to go) the river. Mostly because the
:> race track is flat (well it's water ! <g>) so it's difficult to see where to
:> go in those tight courses.
:>
Quite often he's a throttle man. In offshore racing there are often
three. navigator, throttle man and pilot. you have to constantly trim the
throttle when there are waves. On the gas in the wave, off the gas in the
air. throttle also has a big effect on the boat's attitude in the water,
whether it is planing or not. Wheee ha.
Stephen
Steve... I know what you're getting at, but ymenard is right... this is
a direction guy only. The courses are like 3/4 of a mile long and there
are about 20 turns. It's crazy. :-)
--Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
