GPL and recommended hardware

I am buying a new machine... my P150 oc'd to 166 just won't run GPL.. i haven't even bought it and tried. I am looking for a good machine to run GPL, GP2 and Quake 2 along with other EA sports games. I plan on putting together this machine myself. I am currently deciding on: AMD K6-III-450 or a Celeron 433 What should I go with? I don't plan on spending any more cash than that on the chip. How much memory and what type? (i haven't bought a machine in a couple years so I might be down on the computer talk) My current video card is a PCI All-N-Wonder. Should I go with an AGP card? 3DFX? What is a good mix of a video card and 3DFX? My current wheel is a GP1. I am leaning towards a split axis wheel. Which wheels offer split axis capabilites? What type of performance will I get out of GPL and GP2? And advice would be greatly appreciated.

SF, Go with the Celeron 433, the price on those is going down as we speak. (unless you want to try "overclocking" a P300a to 450 + mhz) If you can, get an Abit BH mainboard, it is more "flexible" to "tweaking" than other BX chipset boards, and will make "overclocking" very easy if you want to try. If you can afford it, get a 128 Mb (100 mhz) DIMM memory module, that will allow for easy "expansion" later. I prefer Western Digital hard drives, they have 7200 rpm drives available for reasonable $$$, any name brand will do though. Right now, the 16 Mb Voodoo AGP cards are another bargain. You should be able to get on at $90.00 or below. 40X CD drives are available under $50 and a GREAT sound card is a Soundblaster Live Value at around $70.00. Tha above will give OUTSTANDING performance in GPL (what else is there ???). I just got a Hyper Stimulator system (currently building the***pit "kit") and have used a TM T-2 before that, so I'll defer to someone else on giving advice on a steering wheel & pedals. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any more "hardware" questions. I can help you out on an Abit mainboard and CPU if you can't find them. Take care, EE

What is the fascination with a high speed CD Rom drive? a 40X is quite fast but it does nothing for you if you do the Full Install to the HDD. If you do a Full install.. A 2X CD Rom drive will do. And the 2X will be a whole lot cheaper. And you wont have to wait as long for the CD Rome drive to load the stuff between races. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? MikeBa on the TEN network. Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

E E gave good recommendations. I would suggest the same hardware concerning the CPU, motherboard and Ram. The rest, I haven't tried. Robert Hull, Qubec

First off where can you buy a 2x? And a 40x will sure install the game a lot faster than a 2x.

True, the 40X will install it quicker. For that reason alone a 40X is a good purchase. However, I just meant to say that a 40X drive is not worth getting unless you have programs that run off the CD *ONLY*. You can still pick up 2X's very cheap. They are hard to find but they are still available. Shoot, just the next town over there is a store that sells a lot of New 486's. Complete with monitor, Keyboard, printer, ect.. Most people I know that buy these 486's buy them just for the printers, monitors, and HDDs. at $120.00 it's worth it.

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> > What is the fascination with a high speed CD Rom drive? a 40X is > quite > > fast but it does nothing for you if you do the Full Install to the HDD. > If > > you do a Full install.. A 2X CD Rom drive will do. And the 2X will be a > > whole lot cheaper. And you wont have to wait as long for the CD Rome drive > > to load the stuff between races. > First off where can you buy a 2x? And a 40x will sure install the game a > lot faster than a 2x.

-- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? MikeBa on the TEN network. Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:11:41 -0400, Michael Barlow > True, the 40X will install it quicker. For that reason alone a 40X is a >good purchase. However, I just meant to say that a 40X drive is not worth >getting unless you have programs that run off the CD *ONLY*. Hmmm I'd rather replace my 4x CDROM with a CD Rewriteable. How about 3DFX cards? How do these work? Are they add-on cards that work with the video card or are they the actual video card?

You will definitely get a lot of different opinions, here's mine. Do a lot of research on the net from places like Tom's and Anandtech. Keep in mind YOUR priorities, performance requirements, what kind of software, budget etc. Then consider the paths before you, buy ready made locally, custom built local, mail order ready made or custom. I could go on but you get the point, think now and save later. What would I do? Same thing I did 8 months ago when the ole 200mmx wasn't running GPL very well. Mail ordered the parts, case, celeron 300a cpu, Abit bh6 mobo,128 meg pc100 ram, and used my thriller 8meg etc. I paid a local shop $50 to assemble, set bios, load windows and test. Well worth the money. After a breakin period and a little tweaking it has been running at 450mhz 24/7 over 6 months rock solid. Keep in mind this cpu is getting rare and you should read up on overclocking . Check this out, pricey but gaurenteed. As for video, voodoodoo works fine with most everything and although the new riva tnt is great it isn't perfect with GPL yet. You may also want to read GPL forums for a while too. There is a lot more but I'm even boring myself at this point. One last thing, imo an overclocked 300a is still the most bang for the buck. JM

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> I am buying a new machine... my P150 oc'd to 166 just won't run GPL.. > i haven't even bought it and tried. I am looking for a good machine > to run GPL, GP2 and Quake 2 along with other EA sports games. I plan > on putting together this machine myself. > I am currently deciding on: > AMD K6-III-450 or a Celeron 433 > What should I go with? I don't plan on spending any more cash than > that on the chip. > How much memory and what type? (i haven't bought a machine in a > couple years so I might be down on the computer talk) > My current video card is a PCI All-N-Wonder. Should I go with an AGP > card? 3DFX? What is a good mix of a video card and 3DFX? > My current wheel is a GP1. I am leaning towards a split axis wheel. > Which wheels offer split axis capabilites? > What type of performance will I get out of GPL and GP2? > And advice would be greatly appreciated.

I plan on purchasing the parts and putting together the machine myself. I probably won't save a lot of money--but I know I will be getting all the manuals and I know what I am getting (no flaky parts). Can't find a Celeron 300A anywhere. I am not really into overclocking it because you can find comparable CPUs for what you paid 6 months ago. Why buy a 300A when you can buy a reasonably priced PII 400. Also if anyone can recommemd some really good video cards for GPL/GP2/Quake2, that would be kindly appreciated. Cost does not matter--just performance!

300a's $75 , pII400's $225 , pII450's $375, I only paid $130 for mine last year. If cost is no object then go for dual pIII xeon's they are only $965 each and the upcoming GPL patch will use one for physic's and the other for rendering.

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> >You will definitely get a lot of different opinions, here's mine. > >Do a lot of research on the net from places like Tom's and Anandtech. > >Keep in mind YOUR priorities, performance requirements, what kind of > >software, budget etc. Then consider the paths before you, buy ready made > >locally, custom built local, mail order ready made or custom. I could go > >on but you get the point, think now and save later. > >What would I do? Same thing I did 8 months ago when the ole 200mmx wasn't > >running GPL very well. Mail ordered the parts, case, celeron 300a cpu, > >Abit bh6 mobo,128 meg pc100 ram, and used my thriller 8meg etc. I paid a > >local shop $50 to assemble, set bios, load windows and test. Well worth > I plan on purchasing the parts and putting together the machine > myself. I probably won't save a lot of money--but I know I will be > getting all the manuals and I know what I am getting (no flaky parts). > >the money. After a breakin period and a little tweaking it has been > >running at 450mhz 24/7 over 6 months rock solid. Keep in mind this cpu is > >getting rare and you should read up on overclocking . Check this out, > >pricey but gaurenteed. As for video, voodoodoo works fine with most > >everything and although the new riva tnt is great it isn't perfect with > >GPL yet. You may also want to read GPL forums for a while too. There is a > >lot more but I'm even boring myself at this point. One last thing, imo an > >overclocked 300a is still the most bang for the buck. > Can't find a Celeron 300A anywhere. I am not really into overclocking > it because you can find comparable CPUs for what you paid 6 months > ago. Why buy a 300A when you can buy a reasonably priced PII 400. > Also if anyone can recommemd some really good video cards for > GPL/GP2/Quake2, that would be kindly appreciated. Cost does not > matter--just performance!

Like I said, research the web sites I gave you, it's all there.

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> On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:11:41 -0400, Michael Barlow > > True, the 40X will install it quicker. For that reason alone a 40X is a > >good purchase. However, I just meant to say that a 40X drive is not worth > >getting unless you have programs that run off the CD *ONLY*. > Hmmm I'd rather replace my 4x CDROM with a CD Rewriteable. > How about 3DFX cards? How do these work? Are they add-on cards that > work with the video card or are they the actual video card?

Mike, <<What is the fascination with a high speed CD Rom drive?>> I agree, but where are you going to buy a new CD slower than 40X ??? Time marches on, EE

SF, <<How about 3DFX cards? How do these work? Are they add-on cards that work with the video card or are they the actual video card?>> You're not reading the replies to your original question - Get a 16 Mb Voodoo AGP, one card, one slot, GREAT GPL performance !!! EE

SF, <<Why buy a 300A when you can buy a reasonably priced PII 400>> I guess at this point, after reading this entire thread, I'm asking myself why you asked the original question if you have all these answers ??? I can tell you why a 300a at 450 mhz over a PII400 - it's SIMPLE, the 300a is FASTER !!! Look on Ebay, there's over a hundred for sale today alone !!! Hope you get this worked out, you can spend days trying to figure ways to save a buck or two. Sometimes the speed you need cost a little more. Later, EE

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>SF, ><<How about 3DFX cards? How do these work? Are they add-on cards that >work with the video card or are they the actual video card?>> >You're not reading the replies to your original question - >Get a 16 Mb Voodoo AGP, one card, one slot, GREAT GPL performance !!!

I did read them. But I was under the impression that the 3DFX cards were add-on cards to video cards. But I think I will go with the VooDoo AGP. Hopefully it will work okay. game? Thanks for the help.

SF, Early Voodoos were, but the AGP card is a stand alone, works well and is getting cheap !!! Haven't had cable modem long enough to tell about on-line races, but so far performance is FAST. Take care, EE

> game? > Thanks for the help. no_spam.n2rif1.vcf < 1K Download

>I did read them. But I was under the impression that the 3DFX cards >were add-on cards to video cards. But I think I will go with the >VooDoo AGP. Hopefully it will work okay. Fair to be confused - the Voodoo1 & 2 were dedicated 3d cards only & were additional to your 2d card. The voodoo3 is a combined 2d/3d card. The voodoo3 runs GPL very well Tony

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>I am buying a new machine... my P150 oc'd to 166 just won't run GPL.. >i haven't even bought it and tried. I am looking for a good machine >to run GPL, GP2 and Quake 2 along with other EA sports games. I plan >on putting together this machine myself. >I am currently deciding on: >AMD K6-III-450 or a Celeron 433 >What should I go with? I don't plan on spending any more cash than >that on the chip.

Those two machines should be more or less identical regarding GPL performance. The Celeron 433 has an Intel FPU, which GPL likes better than the AMD counterpart. OTOH, the K6III will run at 100MHz FSB, which means better memory access. And it has a nice, huge, built-in L2 cache. The ss7 boards usually also have a huge L2 cache, which will work as an L3 chache with this chip. I'd go for the AMD - provided you can't get hold of a Celeron 300a anymore, which had by far the best power for money ratio. These can be overclocked to 4.5x100 MHz, but Intel pulled them from the market exactly because of this. Minimum 64MB PC100 SDRAM. More is better, of course. If you want to run GPL, buy a 3dfx card. Or a Rendition based card, but that won't do too much for Quake, I believe. Since you seem not to have an unlimited budget (just like me), I would suggest a Banshee card. There are better cards, of course (TNT (2), Voodoo3, etc. come to mind), but they either aren't fully compatible with GPL, and/or much more expensive. You could also keep your ATI and add a Voodoo2 card, though. Michael Carver, to the rescue! :) I have no idea. Very, very good GP2 performance. It runs already very beautifully on my iP166MMx o/c to 250 MHz (barring sand pit excursions, of course), and your system will be considerably faster. Good to very good GPL performance can be expected. -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

And sometimes not so great. I know of several cable modem users,including myself, that are less than satisfied with their cable modem in GPL use. I got mine becuase i wanted to do some GPL hosting . I cannot do so since the cable randomly drops everyone from the game. I have tryed everything I can find to correct this but the problem persists. Other cable users dont have this problem . It seems to be mostly dependent on your local cable provider and on the complexity of GPL's multiplayer code. Perhaps the long awaited patch will help since it is mostly concerned with multiplay issues or so I've heard. David Erb > > game? > > Thanks for the help.

% >My current wheel is a GP1. I am leaning towards a split axis wheel. % >Which wheels offer split axis capabilites? % Michael Carver, to the rescue! :) I have no idea. There are so many to choose from now days. I pretty sure that most Force Feedback wheels have the ability to have split axis for the pedals (though some may require a driver update). But then there is no Force Feedback in GPL (well I understand the code is there it just is turned off and is probably not fully implemented in the code). In the Thrustmaster line, I would recommend the Super Sport for precision or the NASCAR/Formula Pro if you just gotta have a stick shift. http://www.thrustmaster.com Thomas Enterprises has some units with split axis on pedals (but then you may have a long wait to get a unit built and shipped). http://soli.inav.net/~thomas -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I would go with, rather than a dirt-cheap 40X or 32X, a 24X for the same price. My point: One PC has a 24X Panasonic, paid $120 for it new. Extremely sturdy drive. Other one: 32X Samsung, feels kinda flimsy & cheap, and CDs are definitely warm after coming out. And the perfomance is VERY MARGINALLY better. Most stuff doesn't need more than even a 4X still. I betcha that when one goes to bits, it's the 32X first... I've also got a Sony 2X sitting around...like the Panasonic, a very study drive. -- Kirk Lane ICQ: 28171652 > True, the 40X will install it quicker. For that reason alone a 40X is a >good purchase. However, I just meant to say that a 40X drive is not worth >getting unless you have programs that run off the CD *ONLY*. > You can still pick up 2X's very cheap. They are hard to find but they are >still available. Shoot, just the next town over there is a store that sells a >lot of New 486's. Complete with monitor, Keyboard, printer, ect.. Most people >I know that buy these 486's buy them just for the printers, monitors, and HDDs. >at $120.00 it's worth it. >> > What is the fascination with a high speed CD Rom drive? a 40X is >> quite >> > fast but it does nothing for you if you do the Full Install to the HDD. >> If >> > you do a Full install.. A 2X CD Rom drive will do. And the 2X will be a >> > whole lot cheaper. And you wont have to wait as long for the CD Rome drive >> > to load the stuff between races. >> First off where can you buy a 2x? And a 40x will sure install the game a >> lot faster than a 2x. >-- >========================================= >Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? >MikeBa on the TEN network. >Member of R.O.R. 1999 >http://w3.ime.net/~marknjess/noflame.html >========================================= >Racing online with the help of...... >Race Communications Association >http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html >Holodyne Engineering >Mystic Music

> Hmmm I'd rather replace my 4x CDROM with a CD Rewriteable. GPL won't install from my CD recordable (Teac R55 SCSI). I tried it when my CDROM broke :-( Paul. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nortel, London Road, Harlow, Essex. CM17 9NA

>My current wheel is a GP1. I am leaning towards a split axis wheel. >Which wheels offer split axis capabilites? GP1 ;-) I have GP1 and I have modified it to have split axis gas and brake. If you like your GP1 I would suggest you to keep it and modify the wiring. I really cant drive with pedals, I need paddles for braking and gas :-) -- < Tero Turtiainen | Yes Sir, may I*** your boots or do your Highness > < turtiain at iki.fi | use dry cleaning? - Stone >

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>>My current wheel is a GP1. I am leaning towards a split axis wheel. >>Which wheels offer split axis capabilites? >GP1 ;-) >I have GP1 and I have modified it to have split axis gas and brake. If you >like your GP1 I would suggest you to keep it and modify the wiring. I really >cant drive with pedals, I need paddles for braking and gas :-)

Would I need a game card installed? I use the game port on my sound card but I have a Thrustmaster game card sitting in my closet if need be. How do I modify the wiring? +

Another question: Is there any advantage for gamers to have a dual processor computer? I would think the answer is yes but I don't jump to conclusions. >I am buying a new machine... my P150 oc'd to 166 just won't run GPL.. >i haven't even bought it and tried. I am looking for a good machine >to run GPL, GP2 and Quake 2 along with other EA sports games. I plan >on putting together this machine myself.

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>I am buying a new machine... my P150 oc'd to 166 just won't run GPL.. >i haven't even bought it and tried. I am looking for a good machine >to run GPL, GP2 and Quake 2 along with other EA sports games. I plan >on putting together this machine myself. >I am currently deciding on: >AMD K6-III-450 or a Celeron 433

I heard, that the new Celerons are also ok for overclocking (check in ng) 128 MB 100MHz ram -- also ok after CPU-upgrade No idea, Probably a Voodoo3 or Voodoo2 (budget now) FF or not? FF: Logitech NonFF: the TSW (or so) gets excellent reviews GPL: :-)))) GP2: no idea welcome Jens --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Michael, You will find no x2 drive on the market. I guess the lowest speed is about x24 in the moment. But carefully, the low cost products usually only have a high-speed-name and not the appropriate performance. To the "needed" speed: It's not essential, but very annoying to have a slow cd-rom in cd-based programs. GPL is the only Sim I know and use, which is fully running from HD. Jens On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:37:59 -0400, Michael Barlow

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>> ----some good suggestions snipped------ > What is the fascination with a high speed CD Rom drive? a 40X is quite >fast but it does nothing for you if you do the Full Install to the HDD. If >you do a Full install.. A 2X CD Rom drive will do. And the 2X will be a >whole lot cheaper. And you wont have to wait as long for the CD Rome drive >to load the stuff between races.

--------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

EE, How compared to Voodoo2 and V <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

You got a toaster ;-) Jens On Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:01:47 -0700, "Kirk Lane" <snip> <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

>>I have GP1 and I have modified it to have split axis gas and brake. If you >>like your GP1 I would suggest you to keep it and modify the wiring. I really >>cant drive with pedals, I need paddles for braking and gas :-) >Would I need a game card installed? I use the game port on my sound >card but I have a Thrustmaster game card sitting in my closet if need >be. I have SoundBlaster 16 VE sound card with a game port and the dual axis setup works fine with that one. Maybe I should make a web page... :-P Somebody mailed me the instructions for modifying Thrustmaster T1 and I applied some of the principles from those instructions. With GP1 it seemed to be a little easier, there is actually a wire in the GP1 cable that is connected to the right pin in the game port plug, by default it is just not used. -- < Tero Turtiainen | Yes Sir, may I*** your boots or do your Highness > < turtiain at iki.fi | use dry cleaning? - Stone >