Wheels vs Joysticks

I've been playing racing sims for a long time with my trusty old Flightstick and have had a great time. With the Flightstick I am able to match the faster lap times I have seen posted for GP2 and GPL. So, I can make the stick work. Yesterday I bought a Logitech Wingman Formula. Nice wheel. Well built and very comfortable. The only quam I have is that the brake pedal does not have much travel. Anyways, with the wheel I have been turned into a complete NOVICE. After about an hour of lapping Zandvoort I ran a best 1:36. 10 seconds off my joystick pace! I feel inadequate! The interesting thing with the wheel in GPL is the proliferation of power slides. With the joystick, steering corrections were much quicker and sharper. With the wheel (because of the amount of movement required) it takes longer to correct the oversteer situations which forces you into nice long drifts. I'm not sure If I'll ever reach the quickness level of my joystick, with my wheel. I'm not optimistic. :) How have you other joystick converts fared? Zooter

I feel the same way as you do about the joystick. I have been using it for years with many race simulators and feel the most comfortable with it. I know this sounds funny but i go to my friends house (he has the wheel) and try racing and it's like starting all over again. I'm going to stay with the joystick myself. Steve!

Well, the current world record is 1:23 something with a wheel the 2nd place is with a stick with most people using a wheel. But most definitely you should use whatever feels right. JM

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> I've been playing racing sims for a long time with my trusty old > Flightstick and have had a great time. With the Flightstick I am able > to match the faster lap times I have seen posted for GP2 and GPL. So, > I can make the stick work. > Yesterday I bought a Logitech Wingman Formula. Nice wheel. Well > built and very comfortable. The only quam I have is that the brake > pedal does not have much travel. Anyways, with the wheel I have been > turned into a complete NOVICE. After about an hour of lapping > Zandvoort I ran a best 1:36. 10 seconds off my joystick pace! I > feel inadequate! > The interesting thing with the wheel in GPL is the proliferation of > power slides. With the joystick, steering corrections were much > quicker and sharper. With the wheel (because of the amount of > movement required) it takes longer to correct the oversteer situations > which forces you into nice long drifts. > I'm not sure If I'll ever reach the quickness level of my joystick, > with my wheel. I'm not optimistic. :) How have you other joystick > converts fared? > Zooter

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>I've been playing racing sims for a long time with my trusty old >Flightstick and have had a great time. With the Flightstick I am able >to match the faster lap times I have seen posted for GP2 and GPL. So, >I can make the stick work. >Yesterday I bought a Logitech Wingman Formula. Nice wheel. Well >built and very comfortable. The only quam I have is that the brake >pedal does not have much travel. Anyways, with the wheel I have been >turned into a complete NOVICE. After about an hour of lapping >Zandvoort I ran a best 1:36. 10 seconds off my joystick pace! I >feel inadequate! >The interesting thing with the wheel in GPL is the proliferation of >power slides. With the joystick, steering corrections were much >quicker and sharper. With the wheel (because of the amount of >movement required) it takes longer to correct the oversteer situations >which forces you into nice long drifts. >I'm not sure If I'll ever reach the quickness level of my joystick, >with my wheel. I'm not optimistic. :) How have you other joystick >converts fared? >Zooter

I also used my trusty ole CH Flightstick before I bought the Logitech Wingman Formula Force wheel. At first it took some getting used to but after a while I became accustomed to it and shed many seconds off my original GPL times. I tried the other day to go back using the joystick and I couldnt do worth a darn. Give yourself about a week or so and youll be killing your old records. And yes the travel of the brake does present itself to be a bit of a problem but luckily for you, you dont have the force feedback wheel and your suppose to be able to convert a set of CH pedals to work with the non-force feedback wheel. I also have a set of CH pedals but unfortunately I dont believe you can convert them with the Formula Force wheel. I must admit though the CH pedals do kick butt! On the Logitech website they suppose to have some sort of utility that lets you adjust the axis of the logitech brake pedal to where you can have much better control in GPL. I havent tried it yet though.

Well, I have to agree in terms of adjustment. I had a Flightstick, and was running probably similar times to yours (25s in Brabham at Zandy). I was VERY used to racing with a stick from old ICR2 and N2.GPL was hard, but I eventually mastered the stick control. Then I built my own wheel. Works great. I don't find the problem so much in the driving itself or the reaction speed. My adjustment has to do with timing. With the stick, I knew just where to brake, turn, accelerate and how hard to do so and when. The wheel is very different in that you can have the wheel turned a bit and not realize it when braking or gassing it. The stick was easy to tell because center was straight up and once the stick neared straight up, you could lean on the power or brake. At Zandy, I am about 1 second slower. At Spa, I actually have gotten faster (a lot has to do with more practice there, but faster is faster...). Silverstone is a disaster.... I was just into the 27s in the Brab with the stick. Really starting to nail it. But the wheel is way different. Silverstone is all about rythym and timing, due to the long corners and fast speeds. And my timing is TOTALLY off there. But I think I am going to slow the steering and see if that helps. One thing that may help is playing with the Linearity slider and the steering ratios. Fine-tuning these may help you get the feel in the wheel that you want. I think you'll get there, but it will just take time. I know at some places I am adjusting well, some not so good. Practice should help out. Also, with the stick, I used the "virtual arms." I found them useful to see the wheel unwinding when I was exiting corners. I kept them on with the wheel, and didn't think twice about them. But then I took them off today. BIG difference. I am now (correctly) forced to FEEL the car instead of watching the arms like I did before. I think it helps to turn them off with a wheel. --Dave

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>I've been playing racing sims for a long time with my trusty old >Flightstick and have had a great time. With the Flightstick I am able >to match the faster lap times I have seen posted for GP2 and GPL. So, >I can make the stick work. >Yesterday I bought a Logitech Wingman Formula. Nice wheel. Well >built and very comfortable. The only quam I have is that the brake >pedal does not have much travel. Anyways, with the wheel I have been >turned into a complete NOVICE. After about an hour of lapping >Zandvoort I ran a best 1:36. 10 seconds off my joystick pace! I >feel inadequate! >The interesting thing with the wheel in GPL is the proliferation of >power slides. With the joystick, steering corrections were much >quicker and sharper. With the wheel (because of the amount of >movement required) it takes longer to correct the oversteer situations >which forces you into nice long drifts. >I'm not sure If I'll ever reach the quickness level of my joystick, >with my wheel. I'm not optimistic. :) How have you other joystick >converts fared? >Zooter

Horses for courses. I find a FF Wheel great in some games and my trusty Microsoft USB Joystick better for others. Since most games have a senisitivity level and a lot have a linear/non linear option for the steering I can usually adjust both for about equal times. One game I can;t stand with the wheel is EA Superbikes. The leaning of the joystick seems much more natural to me. I find TOCA 2 better with the joystick as well because no matter what settings I use I can get the Thrustmaster to repsond quick enough steer into the spins caused by other cars hotting me. Keep practicing and I am sure you will eventually get that 10 seconds back.

Quoted text (23 lines)

> I've been playing racing sims for a long time with my trusty old > Flightstick and have had a great time. With the Flightstick I am able > to match the faster lap times I have seen posted for GP2 and GPL. So, > I can make the stick work. > Yesterday I bought a Logitech Wingman Formula. Nice wheel. Well > built and very comfortable. The only quam I have is that the brake > pedal does not have much travel. Anyways, with the wheel I have been > turned into a complete NOVICE. After about an hour of lapping > Zandvoort I ran a best 1:36. 10 seconds off my joystick pace! I > feel inadequate! > The interesting thing with the wheel in GPL is the proliferation of > power slides. With the joystick, steering corrections were much > quicker and sharper. With the wheel (because of the amount of > movement required) it takes longer to correct the oversteer situations > which forces you into nice long drifts. > I'm not sure If I'll ever reach the quickness level of my joystick, > with my wheel. I'm not optimistic. :) How have you other joystick > converts fared? > Zooter