Question about FF

>The disadvantage: CPU cycles going to the routines handling FF >The advantage: Knowing through the wheel what those front wheels are doing >w/o having to look at them. I read quite an interesting post about this on the 3Dfx server yesterday, supposedly quoting a GPL developer: As for CPU usage, I have seen a post by Randy Cassidy, one of the designer of Grand Prix Legends who tested some FF wheel and here's his quote: "Of the wheels I've tried, the Force GT (USB) causes by far the greatest CPU hit. On a PII-400, it takes about 3.5 million CPU cycles (about 8.75 milliseconds) to issue a simple force command. This is unconscionable! By contrast, the Logitech Wingman Formula Force (serial) takes about 50,000 cycles (about 0.12 milliseconds), and the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback wheel (game port/MIDI) takes about 1.5 million cycles (about 3.75 milliseconds - still very, very high, but servicable; drops to about 1/3rd this amount if the wheel and pedals are stationary, but what good does that do you?)" Joe

I wonder how much of that is coming from the port and how much is the wheel itself? JM

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> >The disadvantage: CPU cycles going to the routines handling FF > >The advantage: Knowing through the wheel what those front wheels are doing > >w/o having to look at them. > I read quite an interesting post about this on the 3Dfx server > yesterday, supposedly quoting a GPL developer: > As for CPU usage, I have seen a post by Randy Cassidy, one of the > designer of Grand Prix Legends who tested some FF wheel and here's his > quote: > "Of the wheels I've tried, the Force GT (USB) causes by far the > greatest CPU hit. On a PII-400, it takes about 3.5 million CPU cycles > (about 8.75 milliseconds) to issue a simple force command. This is > unconscionable! > By contrast, the Logitech Wingman Formula Force (serial) takes about > 50,000 cycles (about 0.12 milliseconds), and the Microsoft Sidewinder > Force Feedback wheel (game port/MIDI) takes about 1.5 million cycles > (about 3.75 milliseconds - still very, very high, but servicable; > drops > to about 1/3rd this amount if the wheel and pedals are stationary, but > what good does that do you?)" > Joe

On Tue, 18 May 1999 16:48:59 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"

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>Im curious about individuals who love FF. Now, Im not slamming FF <G> >Ive only used it a few times on various games. "not simulations". >My question is this. If drivers choose to use FF online, wont they be >at a disadvantage? I would think that having to deal with more >feedback would give the individuals using non-FF wheels an advantage >because they could be smoother, etc. >Although I would imagine that FF would be pretty cool to just run around >with offline. >Thanks, >Scott >PA-Scott >-- >Scott B. Husted >ICQ# 4395450

One would imagine that there would be a way to switch _off_ the force feedback, if required. The perfect solution to anybody having problems playing with FF online. ;) Griffin, the Slayer

Griffin... To supplement the ability to turn off force feedback at the controller level, GPaL will also allow you to turn off force feedback through an appropriate selection from the Control Set dropdown box in GPaL's Race Central screen. Take a peek at www.RaceLive.com/GPaL. Jack Rambo www.RaceLive.com/GPaL

Yeah, that thread is on this list too. :) So yes, he did say that. > >The disadvantage: CPU cycles going to the routines handling FF > >The advantage: Knowing through the wheel what those front wheels are doing

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> >w/o having to look at them. > I read quite an interesting post about this on the 3Dfx server > yesterday, supposedly quoting a GPL developer: > As for CPU usage, I have seen a post by Randy Cassidy, one of the > designer of Grand Prix Legends who tested some FF wheel and here's his > quote: > "Of the wheels I've tried, the Force GT (USB) causes by far the > greatest CPU hit. On a PII-400, it takes about 3.5 million CPU cycles > (about 8.75 milliseconds) to issue a simple force command. This is > unconscionable! > By contrast, the Logitech Wingman Formula Force (serial) takes about > 50,000 cycles (about 0.12 milliseconds), and the Microsoft Sidewinder > Force Feedback wheel (game port/MIDI) takes about 1.5 million cycles > (about 3.75 milliseconds - still very, very high, but servicable; > drops > to about 1/3rd this amount if the wheel and pedals are stationary, but > what good does that do you?)" > Joe

>I wonder how much of that is coming from the port and how much is the wheel >itself? I think the uSB is pretty fast, so in the Force Gt case it must be the wheel or the drivers. Not sure about the MS wheel. Joe

On Tue, 18 May 1999 12:12:32 -0500, "Chris Schletter"

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>The disadvantage: CPU cycles going to the routines handling FF >The advantage: Knowing through the wheel what those front wheels are doing >w/o having to look at them. >I've tried Viper Racing both with and without FF and I must say I am faster >WITH FF simply because I know what those wheels are doing BEFORE I see the >results of my course corrections. >Best advice I can give is to try Viper Racing...its a great platform for >showing a good decent start at FF in racing games.

I second that. I find it much easier to corner in Viper racing now that I can feel my car get loose. Before, I would often find myself starting to push out into a guard-rail or be spun around ass-backwards and not know what happened. The FF lets me progressively feel the over or understeer start to happen and allows me to take corrective action. There's a great feeling in Viper Racing of sliding around the switchbacks of sunset mesa with the wheel letting you know when you have regained traction... -Bill

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>> Im curious about individuals who love FF. Now, Im not slamming FF <G> >> Ive only used it a few times on various games. "not simulations". >> My question is this. If drivers choose to use FF online, wont they be >> at a disadvantage? I would think that having to deal with more >> feedback would give the individuals using non-FF wheels an advantage >> because they could be smoother, etc. >> Although I would imagine that FF would be pretty cool to just run around >> with offline.

>Im curious about individuals who love FF. Now, Im not slamming FF <G> >Ive only used it a few times on various games. "not simulations". >My question is this. If drivers choose to use FF online, wont they be >at a disadvantage? I would think that having to deal with more If someone is scrapping the wall and constantly hitting things, maybe. However FF will force you to drive smoother. I worked for me in F1RS. It really does add quite a bit to the experience. Perhaps there should be a FF only online league for real men (and ladies). -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Im curious about individuals who love FF. Now, Im not slamming FF <G> Ive only used it a few times on various games. "not simulations". My question is this. If drivers choose to use FF online, wont they be at a disadvantage? I would think that having to deal with more feedback would give the individuals using non-FF wheels an advantage because they could be smoother, etc. Although I would imagine that FF would be pretty cool to just run around with offline. Thanks, Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

The disadvantage: CPU cycles going to the routines handling FF The advantage: Knowing through the wheel what those front wheels are doing w/o having to look at them. I've tried Viper Racing both with and without FF and I must say I am faster WITH FF simply because I know what those wheels are doing BEFORE I see the results of my course corrections. Best advice I can give is to try Viper Racing...its a great platform for showing a good decent start at FF in racing games.

>Perhaps there should be a FF only online league for real men (and >ladies). So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack of money for example, are sissies? If not, perhaps you should rephrase that ... Hena

> So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack of > money for example, are sissies? Yes, you big wuss :) -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

>>Perhaps there should be a FF only online league for real men (and >>ladies). >So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack of >money for example, are sissies? If not, perhaps you should rephrase that .... Hey you said it not me, I think I'll go with it :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

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>>>Perhaps there should be a FF only online league for real men (and >>>ladies). >>So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack of >>money for example, are sissies? If not, perhaps you should rephrase that >.... >Hey you said it not me, I think I'll go with it :-)

DEJAVU!

>> So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack of >> money for example, are sissies? >Yes, you big wuss :) <disagreed>

>>>So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack of >>>money for example, are sissies? If not, perhaps you should rephrase that >DEJAVU! Of course I am not saying people are wusses because they cannot afford a FF wheel. $200 for my Logitech FF is a huge cost, I realize that. I was referring more to the fact that FF can make things harder. You can scrape walls with normal wheels and not wipe out. With the FF you get thrown to the other side of the track and usually wipe out. So in the end you are forced to drive a cleaner line. These are the reasons for my "real men/women" comments not because someone can't afford one. That would be asinine on my part... P.S. The FF effects I am referring to are in F1RS at Monaco. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

It was a joke - lighten up. Mr. Hakkanen and I go way back.

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> >> So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack > of > >> money for example, are sissies? > >Yes, you big wuss :) > <disagreed>

>It was a joke - lighten up. Mr. Hakkanen and I go >way back. I'm glad you got it, Pat! :) Hena >> >> So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack >> of >> >> money for example, are sissies? >> >Yes, you big wuss :) >> <disagreed>

> >>>So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack > of > >>>money for example, are sissies? If not, perhaps you should rephrase that

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> >DEJAVU! > Of course I am not saying people are wusses because they cannot > afford a FF wheel. $200 for my Logitech FF is a huge cost, I realize > that. I was referring more to the fact that FF can make things harder. > You can scrape walls with normal wheels and not wipe out. With the > FF you get thrown to the other side of the track and usually wipe out. > So in the end you are forced to drive a cleaner line. These are the > reasons for my "real men/women" comments not because someone > can't afford one. That would be asinine on my part...

I knew you didn't really mean it :). I was basically just joking around. But according to what Mr. Dotson, for example, has been saying about FF in GPL, I just might have to get myself a FF wheel. But right now I'm saving all my money for a trip to the Ring with myt bike in July :D Hena -- Best regards, Hena H?kk?nen Remove NOSPAM to email me!

Yeah, FF will surely be great thing in GPL, I can already imagine how it feeeeeels....like it iiiiiiiissss in the liiiiimiiiiiiit....now don't get loose here!!! GET that grip....theeeere you go... ;) ps. I'm saving my money to rent. >I knew you didn't really mean it :). I was basically just joking around. But

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>according to what Mr. Dotson, for example, has been saying about FF in GPL, >I just might have to get myself a FF wheel. But right now I'm saving all my >money for a trip to the Ring with myt bike in July :D >Hena >-- >Best regards, >Hena H?kk?nen

>>It was a joke - lighten up. Mr. Hakkanen and I go >>way back. Yeah, I'm all lit, because me and Mr. Hakkanen go way front too...

>I knew you didn't really mean it :). I was basically just joking around. But >according to what Mr. Dotson, for example, has been saying about FF in GPL, >I just might have to get myself a FF wheel. But right now I'm saving all my If the FF in GPL is simply banging and crashing effects (like scgt and to a certain extent F1RS) I will pass on GPL. If you can feel the wheel loosen up as you loose grip, and feel other inertial effects I'll probably have to check out GPL and show you wusses how to drive :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Start practicing. Jack Rambo www.RaceLive.com/GPaL

All the wheel manufacturers should pay commision to Papy for all the extra wheels they'll sell :) -- Ian Parker ICQ 21772592

>Start practicing. Not until the patch is released and it is proven to model more than bumps on the track and hits with other cars. I don't do hype... -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com