CART vs IRL

http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990526/01276790.html CART and the IRL, who parted company in 1995, have conducted face-to-face talks that could bring the two racing circuits together again and put the best drivers back in the showcase Indianapolis 500. "I can confirm that there have been some very informal talks with Tony George," said Andrew Craig, president and CEO of Championship Auto Racing Teams. "However, I am not prepared to comment on any of the details." Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

That would be nice to see. The Indy 500 hasn't been the same without the "Big Dogs"... Scottie

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>http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990526/01276790.html >CART and the IRL, who parted company in 1995, have conducted >face-to-face >talks that could bring the two racing circuits together again and put >the best >drivers back in the showcase Indianapolis 500. >"I can confirm that there have been some very informal talks with Tony >George," said Andrew Craig, president and CEO of Championship Auto >Racing >Teams. "However, I am not prepared to comment on any of the details." >Scott >PA-Scott >-- >Scott B. Husted >ICQ# 4395450

On Wed, 26 May 1999 21:53:57 -0500, "Scottie Smith" >That would be nice to see. The Indy 500 hasn't been the same without the >"Big Dogs"... The view from my seat . . . http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/599tvfms.htm -- JB

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>Scottie >>http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990526/01276790.html >>CART and the IRL, who parted company in 1995, have conducted >>face-to-face >>talks that could bring the two racing circuits together again and put >>the best >>drivers back in the showcase Indianapolis 500. >>"I can confirm that there have been some very informal talks with Tony >>George," said Andrew Craig, president and CEO of Championship Auto >>Racing >>Teams. "However, I am not prepared to comment on any of the details." >>Scott >>PA-Scott >>-- >>Scott B. Husted >>ICQ# 4395450

Tell me about it! A buddy of mine and I went down to the race at Dover last year, and I would be willing to bet that damn near 50% of the laps were run under yellow. Something like 7 drivers running at the checkered flag. I think only 2 were on the lead lap....... Kinda like F1...... <g>. Actually I love F1, but it is getting very mundane as well.........

Penske designing a Formula 1 chassis for next season, seems crazy to me. Grant it he won a race as a owner at Austria during the '70s but his recent Champ Car chassis has been anything but competitive. Not to mention the fact that either Toyota, Lotus, or Bernie himself are all trying to fill the last open constructors spot. Before you spread rumors like that maybe you should do a little more research.

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> On Wed, 26 May 1999 21:53:57 -0500, "Scottie Smith" > >That would be nice to see. The Indy 500 hasn't been the same without the > >"Big Dogs"... > The view from my seat . . . > http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/599tvfms.htm > -- JB > >Scottie > >>http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990526/01276790.html > >>CART and the IRL, who parted company in 1995, have conducted > >>face-to-face > >>talks that could bring the two racing circuits together again and put > >>the best > >>drivers back in the showcase Indianapolis 500. > >>"I can confirm that there have been some very informal talks with Tony > >>George," said Andrew Craig, president and CEO of Championship Auto > >>Racing > >>Teams. "However, I am not prepared to comment on any of the details." > >>Scott > >>PA-Scott > >>-- > >>Scott B. Husted > >>ICQ# 4395450

John, As you know we totally disagree on this issue <G> However, I do lean towards your view that a reunification is going to be one tough job to get done. You also mention Tony George and Satan taking part in the negotiations. Here I thought they were the same person. But we wont go there ;) The one thing this has going for it is Bill France. Mr. France knows how to get things done and I would never bet against him if he is serious in this reunification. I wonder if they remain seperate entities but somehow manage to work out an agreement to get CART drivers back for just the Indy 500? I have no idea how but I think that is one of the BIG issues here beyond the individual series. Time shall tell. Scott PA-Scott High Gear Editor - "The View" (Coming June 1) G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

ROFL - I told you he was Satan. ------ "INDIANAPOLIS -- The Indy Racing League is no closer to ending its feud with rival CART, despite talks aimed at bringing the two sides together, IRL's president said Thursday. In his most extensive comments on the 4-year-old split in American open-wheel racing, Tony George accused CART of fueling reports of a reconciliation to boost its stock price, soothe sponsors and divert attention from the Indianapolis 500. While admitting once again that it would be difficult for both series to survive, George said he got no indication of common ground at a meeting last week with Andrew Craig, chief executive officer of Championship Auto Racing Teams. "As long as we have different philosophies, we're never going to strike any kind of accord," George said. "I can't say I'm encouraged by anything we talked about." ---------------- THIS GUY IS ON ***!! (Leo Mehl) "Those CART guys are very concerned with what's going on here. If they come back here with the same engines we use, the same chassis, they'll get their doors blown off." ROFL - Yeah, by who ?? Billy "Ill make a lap sooner or later!" Boat??? ----------------------- INDY 500. R.I.P. -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott on TEN G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com High Gear "The View" Editor - http://www.simracingnews.com http://home.earthlink.net/~sbhusted ICQ# 4395450

On Thu, 27 May 1999 15:42:48 -0500, Green Giant >Penske designing a Formula 1 chassis for next season, seems crazy to me. >Grant it he won a race as a owner at Austria during the '70s but his recent >Champ Car chassis has been anything but competitive. Not to mention the fact >that either Toyota, Lotus, or Bernie himself are all trying to fill the last >open constructors spot. Before you spread rumors like that maybe you should >do a little more research. "Rumors?" Whoa, chuckles (or would you rather go by "Sprout"?) -- calm yourself a bit and go re-read the editorial. Actually, that's the key -- it's an EDITORIAL, which means opinion piece. I make no pretense of having "facts" about Penske doing an F1 chassis. Here's what the editorial says, for the record: <SNIP> "So while the rest of you spin your wheels pondering the possibility of an IRL/CART reunification under the guidance of Bill France, I'm betting that Roger Penske will be busy trying to figure out how to sign Jeff Gordon as the driver for the new American Eagle-Penske F1 car." <END SNIP> You may be right about the idea of a Penske F1 chassis being a crazy idea -- I'm also sure that a lot of people would have said the same thing about the idea of a Penske/Mercedes 209-pushrod engine before April or May of '94, too. Penske's recent lack of success in developing a CART chassis doesn't mean his chassis operation is all washed up -- for all we know, the '00 Penske champ car chassis may be the thing to make the Reynards obsolete. It could happen, given the level of competitiveness in the CART series. So, given that, why automatically assume that the idea of a Penske F1 chassis is ridiculous? Speaking of ridiculous, though, it seems you missed the point of the editorial altogether -- my point was that if the upcoming F1 race does overshadow the IRL and CART in the U.S., then both sides had better bury the hatchet fast and make amends, before all we have left is NASCAR and F1. -- JB

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>> On Wed, 26 May 1999 21:53:57 -0500, "Scottie Smith" >> >That would be nice to see. The Indy 500 hasn't been the same without the >> >"Big Dogs"... >> The view from my seat . . . >> http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/599tvfms.htm >> -- JB >> >Scottie >> >>http://espn.go.com/car/irl/news/1999/990526/01276790.html >> >>CART and the IRL, who parted company in 1995, have conducted >> >>face-to-face >> >>talks that could bring the two racing circuits together again and put >> >>the best >> >>drivers back in the showcase Indianapolis 500. >> >>"I can confirm that there have been some very informal talks with Tony >> >>George," said Andrew Craig, president and CEO of Championship Auto >> >>Racing >> >>Teams. "However, I am not prepared to comment on any of the details." >> >>Scott >> >>PA-Scott >> >>-- >> >>Scott B. Husted >> >>ICQ# 4395450

On Thu, 27 May 1999 21:14:39 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"

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>John, >As you know we totally disagree on this issue <G> However, I do lean >towards your view that a reunification is going to be one tough job to get >done. You also mention Tony George and Satan taking part in the >negotiations. Here I thought they were the same person. But we wont go >there ;) >The one thing this has going for it is Bill France. Mr. France knows how to >get things done and I would never bet against him if he is serious in this >reunification. >I wonder if they remain seperate entities but somehow manage to work out an >agreement to get CART drivers back for just the Indy 500? I have no idea how >but I think that is one of the BIG issues here beyond the individual series.

If there is to be ANY form of reunification, I see both sides adopting identical engine/chassis/rules formulas, with the IRL in charge of all the oval events, and CART handling all the road/street/international events. Kind of like baseball's American and National Leagues, but with the teams and drivers able to crossover at will between the two divisions. This would mean that everybody could show up at Indy. In this sort of "National Racing League/American Racing League" scenario, there might still be room for one division to use engine leases, and the other division to allow engine ownership -- with the engines also able to crossover from one division to the other, making for some WILD manufacturer/engine builder competition. -- JB

FYI Toyota are still likely to be forced to buy a team for 2001 as Bernie is trying to help a team into the 12th slot for next season. Rumours have it that Team Lotus will reform at the HRD (who will obviously be wound down close to the end of the season). As an aside, what kind of fool says that Penske developed the Indy winning Mercedes engine? Unless my memory fails me, it was designed and built at Ilmor Engineering like all the Merc engines. Okay so the Penske designers had input on some parts but still... Incidentally how is Penske American? Aren't the chassis designed and built over here? Isn't the engine designed and built here and badged by a German company? In fact I think the only American things about a Penske champ car are the driver and tyres. I think John has just crossed the line into insanity... M

Penske masterminded the concept -- or Penske's people did, at least -- so he gets the credit by default. FWIW, I'm also aware that Roger does NOT personally lay up the carbon fiber tubs by hand, either. Roger Penske is a U.S. citizen; Penske's enterprises are U.S.-based corporations. How much more American do you want? You might as well ask "How American is a Dodge Neon?" Or, "How Japanese is a Honda Accord?" A Penske team with an American engine manufacturer's name on the valve covers and an American driver would no doubt be an American team. Just crossed the line? Heck, I've lived there for years! <G>

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>M >>Penske designing a Formula 1 chassis for next season, seems crazy to me. >>Grant it he won a race as a owner at Austria during the '70s but his >>recent Champ Car chassis has been anything but competitive. Not to >>mention the fact that either Toyota, Lotus, or Bernie himself are all >>trying to fill the last open constructors spot. Before you spread >>rumors like that maybe you should do a little more research.

FWIW, there have been rumors about a united Toyota/Penske F1 effort (no, I'm not pulling this one out of my arse -- see last week's National Speed Sport News). With an American driver in the seat, it would be "American" enough for most U.S. fans, I'm sure.

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>As an aside, what kind of fool says that Penske developed the Indy >winning Mercedes engine? Unless my memory fails me, it was designed and >built at Ilmor Engineering like all the Merc engines. Okay so the Penske >designers had input on some parts but still... >Incidentally how is Penske American? Aren't the chassis designed and >built over here? Isn't the engine designed and built here and badged by a >German company? In fact I think the only American things about a Penske >champ car are the driver and tyres. >I think John has just crossed the line into insanity... >M >>Penske designing a Formula 1 chassis for next season, seems crazy to me. >>Grant it he won a race as a owner at Austria during the '70s but his >>recent Champ Car chassis has been anything but competitive. Not to >>mention the fact that either Toyota, Lotus, or Bernie himself are all >>trying to fill the last open constructors spot. Before you spread >>rumors like that maybe you should do a little more research.

On Thu, 27 May 1999 23:04:08 -0400, "Scott B. Husted" >ROFL - I told you he was Satan. Okay, fine -- but if that's so, then when does he ever find the time to consult with Clinton?

Didn't F1 pass a rule against duel ownership in F1 and another major series?

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> On Thu, 27 May 1999 23:04:08 -0400, "Scott B. Husted" > >ROFL - I told you he was Satan. > Okay, fine -- but if that's so, then when does he ever find the time > to consult with Clinton?

Clinton doesnt need consultations, he sins quite well without Satans help ;) ROFL Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

Don't tell that to Frank williams. He might get upset if he has to stop his touring cars and Tom Walkinshaw might not get his Jags to Le Mans.... Mark series?

So by having this "really cool idea" that gives you the credit for it? That means I'm one of the most prolific inventors of this century as I have all these cool ideas that I can't make happen myself and then someone else does it. *sweet* Seriously tho, an idea is well and good but Ilmor should get the credit, no Penske. Comparing creating the engine to making the tubs is missing my point. It's one thing to have an idea and tell someone who can make it happen, quite another to actually create the thing in question. Okay... he is a US citizen but the majority of his car and parts are sourced in Europe. To me, regardless of the owner, that makes it a European car more than a US car. Incidentally how do the people in the All American Championship that is IRL like a Swede winning the title and their blue ribband race in a European chassis? We'd noticed ;) M p.s. if we're getting off topic, maybe we should switch to email or a more suitable newsgroup :)

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>>Penske masterminded the concept -- or Penske's people did, at least -- >>so he gets the credit by default. FWIW, I'm also aware that Roger >>does NOT personally lay up the carbon fiber tubs by hand, either. >So by having this "really cool idea" that gives you the credit for it? That >means I'm one of the most prolific inventors of this century as I have all >these cool ideas that I can't make happen myself and then someone else does >it. *sweet*

I'm 90% sure that it was Penske's idea in the first place (or someone close to him) -- after the idea came up, Penske himself sold Mercedes on the idea, and then they paid Ilmore to do the development. At the very least, Penske had to give the whole project the go-ahead, which means it was HIS decision to produce the engine, and, therefore, HE gets the credit for the end result. We love it, frankly -- Kenny Brack is a great driver deserving of the win. The Indianapolis 500 is an international event, so the more the merrier. Why do people automatically assume that IRL fans all have anti-foreign sentiments towards non-American drivers in the IRL?? Thanks! But what does this have to do with autos.simulators?? -- JB

Last I looked no one claimed any of the chassises in IRL are American made. Only chassis I know (currently being raced too) of in either CART/IRL that is all American made is the Swift chassis. We do? Speak for yourself. Brack isn't a great driver until he's stacked up with the rest of the great drivers, and only Arie might come close to being labeled that in the IRL (notice how before he crashed he was over 3mph faster than the rest of the field?). Indy 500 is no international event, it is no "more the merrier" either. If it was, you wouldn't have to race in 10 other sorry IRL events to compete. Also, it would not be sanctioned by IRL, rather it would still be sanctioned by a neutral party such as the USAC (yes, I'm aware that USAC sanctioned IRL for awhile too). I don't think that people assume there ARE IRL fans. But, I do believe the assumption that there is an anti-foreign sentiment towards non-American drivers is because of Tony George. He was so damn insistant that there was too much foreign influence in CART, so that was one of the reasons that he started IRL (that and he seems to consider road racing foreign to the American race scene too....shakes his head sadly).

I think it's because Tony George said that the American public couldn't identify with the CART drivers as most were foreign and were driving the price of a race seat up. This was one of his reasons for starting the IRL. M

Wrong. Riley & Scott. That chassis is made in the U.S.A. Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

Wrong? No I wasn't. But thanks for letting us know.

What about the Gurnery Eagle chassis? I'm asking, not telling, where is that made? dave henrie -- >Last I looked no one claimed any of the chassises in IRL are American made.

Mms...ah, I forgot about Gurney. His, www.allamericanracers.com, site doesn't tell where it was made. Anyone know?

> Wrong. Riley & Scott. That chassis is made in the U.S.A. Yeah, and Reynard just bought R & S :(( Matt

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> > > >Okay... he is a US citizen but the majority of his car and parts are > > > >sourced in Europe. To me, regardless of the owner, that makes it a > > European > > > >car more than a US car. > > Last I looked no one claimed any of the chassises in IRL are American > made. > > Only chassis I know (currently being raced too) of in either CART/IRL that > > is all American made is the Swift chassis. > > > We love it, frankly -- Kenny Brack is a great driver deserving of the > > > win. The Indianapolis 500 is an international event, so the more the > > > merrier. Why do people automatically assume that IRL fans all have > > > anti-foreign sentiments towards non-American drivers in the IRL?? > > We do? Speak for yourself. Brack isn't a great driver until he's stacked > > up with the rest of the great drivers, and only Arie might come close to > > being labeled that in the IRL (notice how before he crashed he was over > 3mph > > faster than the rest of the field?). > > Indy 500 is no international event, it is no "more the merrier" either. > If > > it was, you wouldn't have to race in 10 other sorry IRL events to compete. > > Also, it would not be sanctioned by IRL, rather it would still be > sanctioned > > by a neutral party such as the USAC (yes, I'm aware that USAC sanctioned > IRL > > for awhile too). I don't think that people assume there ARE IRL fans. > > But, I do believe the assumption that there is an anti-foreign sentiment > > towards non-American drivers is because of Tony George. He was so damn > > insistant that there was too much foreign influence in CART, so that was > one > > of the reasons that he started IRL (that and he seems to consider road > > racing foreign to the American race scene too....shakes his head sadly). > Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

-- Matthew Birger Knutsen Cheek Racing Cars http://www.cheekracing.electra.no

On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:05:51 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >Mms...ah, I forgot about Gurney. His, www.allamericanracers.com, site >doesn't tell where it was made. Anyone know? They're made in California, so they're American also. --- Jet Jaguar I have a spam blocking address. Replying to me is like pulling teeth. Visit my crappy home page at http://home.att.net/~chmilnir/ MSTie #54297 The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last.