GPL 1.103 -- What are your thoughts?

Ok, chances are you've all seen the README.TXT from the GPL patch. If not, go here: http://www.simracingnews.com/headlines/june99/072.htm Anyway, What do you think? Are there features you like? Dislike? Just curious.... --Dave

The Force Feed back part seems a bit confusing do you have to edit the joy.file yourself? thats what it seems like and experiment with settings. Cheers Andy.

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> Ok, chances are you've all seen the README.TXT from the GPL patch. If not, > go here: > http://www.simracingnews.com/headlines/june99/072.htm > Anyway, What do you think? > Are there features you like? > Dislike? > Just curious.... > --Dave

That 2.50 ride height is going to mess up the few good setups I have <VBG> Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

Also... I see no mention of any improvements for the OpenGL patch? Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

Andy... You'll be able to modify your force feedback settings from GPaL, alleviating the need to edit INI files. Jack Rambo www.RaceLive.com/GPaL

Yes, Scott, that was my first thought after a quick overview of the readme. What a pity! I will never be able to use my f***ing expensive (well, when I bought it, it was ;-)) TNT with GPL. Instead, I have to drive through this washed-out V2 landscapes. Shame! Crash -- "...shortest straw has been pulled for you!" Metallica "Scott B. Husted" schrieb:

On Mon, 07 Jun 1999 23:20:36 +0200, Turn down the GAMMA. -- // email: rrevved at mindspring dot com

I like the fact that you'll be able to block OFF F1's when you host an F3 race. Robert Hull, Qubec

Hehehe no more Wascal Wabbits for us! <G> Ross Robert Gravel a crit dans le message ...

LOL.. but look at all the fun we will miss out on Wabbit hunting.!!! God damn, now we have to find out another way to keep ourselves amused.. :) Cheers, Ron

>Also... I see no mention of any improvements for the OpenGL patch? There was something about the Voodoo3 though, I guess I'll get one of those instead of a TNT2 ultra.

> Yes, Scott, that was my first thought after a quick overview of the > readme. What a pity! I will never be able to use my f***ing expensive > (well, when I bought it, it was ;-)) TNT with GPL. Instead, I have to > drive through this washed-out V2 landscapes. Shame! >Crash Strange though that they say it will work on WinNT with directX, what about directX in win9x?? /Stefan -- ========================================================== Software Developer Phone(Work): +46-(0)243-886 01 Columna AB Phone(Cell): +46-(0)70- 665 75 67 "Computers are like airconditioners; they stop working if you open Windows" ==========================================================

But can you block F3's when running F1 race? I would like that... "No more turtles for us..." ;) Robert Gravel kirjoitti viestiss? ...

Really an anti-climax for those of us who do not race on-line. In fact, I doubt if I will bother obtaining the "upgrade" at all. -- Best regards, Bruce. ====== The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff! http://welcome.to/the_stunned_mullet =============================================== >Ok, chances are you've all seen the README.TXT from the GPL patch. If not, >go here: >http://www.simracingnews.com/headlines/june99/072.htm >Anyway, What do you think? >Are there features you like? >Dislike? >Just curious.... >--Dave

***y lovely.............shall I cut my throat now! Been waiting all this time for good OpenGL support....and nuthin!!

GPL's beta OpenGL rasterizer works pretty well on the TNT and TNT2. Now if NVidia would just optimize their ICD... Eric

Just curious, what outstanding single player bugs would you like to have seen addressed in the patch? Eric

> Really an anti-climax for those of us who do not race on-line. In fact, I > doubt if I will bother obtaining the "upgrade" at all. Well, it's actually a patch, rather than an upgrade, which seems reasonable as it's free! I must admit there were a lot more things I would have liked to see as well, but they would be the domain of GPL 2, if there ever is one. eg. 4-way speaker sound (not necessarily A3D or EAX) ability to do hotlaps against a ghost car 2-player split-screen mode (probably too slow though) I'm assuming it doesn't already do 4-speaker sound - haven't got 4 speakers yet so I can't check! Anyway, I can see why they're concentrating on online play - this is a crucial area for all games at the moment, and it certainly adds enormously to what is already a great game (and sim!). Once you can race online straight out of the box, it will mean a huge increase in the number of online players - whether this is a good thing remains to be seen :-O

Now Jack, GPaL is going to take my rubbish out for me isnt it? Todd >Andy... >You'll be able to modify your force feedback settings from GPaL, alleviating >the need to edit INI files. >Jack Rambo >www.RaceLive.com/GPaL

DirectX is Microsoft's collective term for their *** API's. I suspect you're thinking of Direct3D, which is their 3D graphics API. GPL with the 1.1 patch does not use Direct3D on either NT or Win9x. Randy

Yes.

I kinda feel the same way, too, as I don't race online either. I was hoping for a new track or something like that for the solo racer. Of course I would really be happy if the game would just not lock up so often (I suffer from GPL-Voodoo2 syndrome). Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Frankly, I can't wait :) I especially like the multiplayer internet additions - kicking, auto-kicking for very slow connections, etc etc! Also, they did happen to include new default setups - which they blatantly call setups for newbies! A possible late attempt to make GPL more public-friendly? -- Kirk Lane ICQ: 28171652 RMRL #119 >Ok, chances are you've all seen the README.TXT from the GPL patch. If not, >go here: >http://www.simracingnews.com/headlines/june99/072.htm >Anyway, What do you think? >Are there features you like? >Dislike? >Just curious.... >--Dave

Don't know that I'd call it "outstanding", but the single-player collision modeling leaves a touch to be desired. I've often hit other cars or trackside objects (the haybales in the chicane and gasworks at Monaco, for instance:-)) when visually, there was at least a tire's width of separation, verified by watching replays from all camera views. I also have a replay of an AI car passing DIRECTLY through another. Made for some interesting views, though; from the nose camera of the passing car you could see inside the the passed driver's***pit, showing his arms and steering wheel from below, at about about seat-bottom level. From the in-car, the***pit and steering wheel morph from one type to another! The problem with loss of mouse-control in replays at above-desktop resolutions would also be nice to see resolved. I don't think I saw mention of that. Otherwise, the patch looks good. If it solves most of the online problems, that alone will be great. Looking forward to full-size menus again, Steve B. remove "edy" from address for email

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> >Just curious, what outstanding single player bugs would you like to > >have seen addressed in the patch? > Don't know that I'd call it "outstanding", but the single-player collision > modeling leaves a touch to be desired. I've often hit other cars or trackside > objects (the haybales in the chicane and gasworks at Monaco, for instance:-)) > when visually, there was at least a tire's width of separation, verified by > watching replays from all camera views. I also have a replay of an AI car > passing DIRECTLY through another. Made for some interesting views, though; > from the nose camera of the passing car you could see inside the the passed > driver's***pit, showing his arms and steering wheel from below, at about > about seat-bottom level. From the in-car, the***pit and steering wheel morph > from one type to another!

That's interesting - I have a similar replay where I made a great move on an AI car only for both of us to suddenly veer off the track as though we'd collided - I checked and there was at least a full tyre's-width between us at all times. I *thought* Monaco was a tough circuit - looks like it's even tougher than it ought to be! I believe you can work round that one by increasing your desktop screen size (the bug is that the mouse pointer is limited to the desktop area).

That's actually a limitation of 3dfx's Voodoo1/2 architecture and will occur in any game/app which is run at above-desktop resolution which requires full-screen mouse control (this can be easily demonstrated if you have two monitors and plug one into your primary video card and the second into the Voodoo1/2). Eric

Todd... Since you've been such a GPaL/NTT supporter, I'm building a prototype, just for you, that will take out the rubbish *and* rebuild your Cosworth after every race! :) Jack www.RaceLive.com/GPaL

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>That's interesting - I have a similar replay where I made a great move >on an AI car only for both of us to suddenly veer off the track as >though we'd collided - I checked and there was at least a full >tyre's-width between us at all times. >I *thought* Monaco was a tough circuit - looks like it's even tougher >than it ought to be!

I should have mentioned that it seems to be primarily a lateral separation issue where other AI cars are involved. I can nose up to someone's gearbox with no problem, but side-by-side can be pretty sketchy. As to the trackside objects, there seems to be a discrepancy between the "visual" and "virtual" locations of a few objects. Most are rendered quite accurately, so those that aren't really get your attention! Just a few more track "secrets" to file away, I suppose.... Cheers, Steve B. remove "edy" from address for email

I am sure we will still find the odd wail wider now and again Ron <G> Mark

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> LOL.. but look at all the fun we will miss out on Wabbit hunting.!!! > God damn, now we have to find out another way to keep ourselves > amused.. :) > Cheers, > Ron > > Hehehe no more Wascal Wabbits for us! <G> > > Ross > > Robert Gravel a crit dans le message ... > > >I like the fact that you'll be able to block OFF F1's when you host > an F3 > > >race. > > >Robert > > >Hull, Qubec

>Really an anti-climax for those of us who do not race on-line. In fact, I >doubt if I will bother obtaining the "upgrade" at all. Are you kidding? A chance to check out what will hopefully be the best FF implementation yet? As Austin Powers would say, "Teah baby!" Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

All the online stuff :-) No dislikes, but I would have liked a couple of very minor things, such as the ability to run on the pits loop at the 'Ring, thereby eliminating the need for an 8-minute out-lap... Also it would be cool to sort out the AI so that they can't turn around on a sixpence :-) That aside - gimme it now! -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 ________________________________________________________________________________ "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" (Calvin & Hobbes)

one really big thing for me that i wish would have been addressed was how the AI cars if you tangle with them have this magic ability to get back on the track very quickly and efficiently. When the AI cars end up off the track they "magically" just *rotate* to the direction of the track and then they are off. Meanwhile i am hitting reverse, spinning my tires just to get pointed in the right direction....while the AI car has already sped off to the horizon -zAmboni

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> Just curious, what outstanding single player bugs would you like to > have seen addressed in the patch? > Eric > > Really an anti-climax for those of us who do not race on-line. In > fact, I > > doubt if I will bother obtaining the "upgrade" at all.

I think they're doing a great job to improve online play. The one thing I miss in this respect is fixing the *** collisions. Famous examples are Loewes in Monaco and the hairpin in Rouen. Low speed collisions can result in major damage if cars overlap when the collision is detected. Should papy fix this, it would allow for much closer racing. And of course official OpenGL support would be nice. Bart Westra

And you know what happens to wabbits. We wam them, wun them off the woad and watch as they woll over into the bawwiers hehe Mawk > But can you block F3's when running F1 race? I would like that... Yes. hmm, F3's running in an F1 race? would they be considered to be "stibbaw"? We call F1's in an F3 race "Wabbits"<g> -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://www.pivot.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Sim Racing Mag http://www.simracingmag.com/ Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

How come the body of the car is never damaged in a wreck? only the wheels, suspension, engine, etc.

Oops... Sorry Won. I spelt your name rong then <G> Mawk

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> I am sure we will still find the odd wail wider now and again Ron <G> > Mark > > LOL.. but look at all the fun we will miss out on Wabbit hunting.!!! > > God damn, now we have to find out another way to keep ourselves > > amused.. :) > > Cheers, > > Ron > > > Hehehe no more Wascal Wabbits for us! <G> > > > Ross > > > Robert Gravel a crit dans le message ... > > > >I like the fact that you'll be able to block OFF F1's when you host > > an F3 > > > >race. > > > >Robert > > > >Hull, Qubec

eh, Bruce must've seen a crucial spelling error somewhere . . .

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> Just curious, what outstanding single player bugs would you like to > have seen addressed in the patch? > Eric > > Really an anti-climax for those of us who do not race on-line. In > fact, I > > doubt if I will bother obtaining the "upgrade" at all.

Please don't ask with that Papy smirk on your face...as in how could there be any bugs in a product we've released??? Just because your products are better tested and have fewer bugs on release than everyone else's, doesn't mean there aren't any bugs. I know you are already aware of the many instances that the collision detection seems utterly wacky. The damage model can also return some pretty strange results...although most of the problems in that regard seem to stem from the inability of the tub to take damage. If you ram a wall at 100 km/h, you could possibly build in a fudge factor of a few other parts breaking to make up for the indestructible tub. You shouldn't be able to drive away unscathed. The most important flaw in the simulation modelling of GPL is the lack of pit stops. It completely destroys the authenticity of the 1967 F1 racing experience...too bad when the rest of the sim. is awesomely detailed and caringly constructed. Personally, I could care less if pit crew are animated (or even visible!!), but if I have grazed an Armco at 90% of a hard-fought race and caused myself a pretty minor problem, AND, I can make it back to my pit stall, I want a new tire and an appropriate delay for it to be changed. That's what happened in real life and it couldn't be that hard to program in a damage repair facility when returning to your pit stall. You don't even have to ask what to fix--if you go back to the pits, it can only be for one reason!!!!!!!! Even static time delay values could be used for various types of damage. Save the pit crew mistake modelling and all the other bells and whistles for Nascar 3. Lastly, the ability of the AI cars to be immune (or almost immune) from driving off course (not to mention their speed advantage in a lot of scenarios) is a real single-player problem. GPL is the best racing simulator on the market today, as it was when it was released last year. It isn't perfect though, and it even has a few glaring problems. (Far, far fewer than Nascar Racing 1999, though, which is a huge credit to the GPL development team since they weren't just updating an existing product). Marc.

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> Just curious, what outstanding single player bugs would you like to > have seen addressed in the patch? > Eric > > Really an anti-climax for those of us who do not race on-line. In > fact, I > > doubt if I will bother obtaining the "upgrade" at all.

On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:17:30 +0100, Graeme Nash >No dislikes, but I would have liked a couple of very minor things, such >as the ability to run on the pits loop at the 'Ring, That would be great - and original also, as they really did warm-up laps there. Also, nowadays, in practise for he 24 hours on the full 25.3km Ring, cars can come out of the pits, drive a lap on the 4.5km GP track, and then do a timed lap on the full thing. Saves a lot of time, as 3 or 4 drivers in each of the 200 entered cars have to do at least 2 timed laps. You can eliminate this by yourself: just place the pit stalls in the track.ini behind (or before) the S/F line (like it is eg. in Watkins Glen or Monza). Maybe even put them on the long straight or somewhere else on the track. Then you can do a timed lap out of the pits, with slightly warmed tyres . Yes, that is a strange thing. :-/ -- Matthias Flatt

>No dislikes, but I would have liked a couple of very minor things, such >as the ability to run on the pits loop at the 'Ring, thereby eliminating >the need for an 8-minute out-lap... This might just be the best idea I've ever heard in my life! Don McCorkle Libertarian Motorsports

On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 02:23:45 GMT, "Marc Collins" >Please don't ask with that Papy smirk on your face...as in how could there >be any bugs in a product we've released??? Just because your products are >better tested and have fewer bugs on release than everyone else's, doesn't >mean there aren't any bugs. I suppose you can read anything into a statement that you want but that was not at all what I saw from Eric's question. Asking your customers directly what THEY would like to see changed in your product is an admirable trait for a company, wouldn't you say? As regards pit stops, if you do want to recreate the experience then limp back to the pits, sit in the stall for 10 seconds and press Shift-R to get the damage fixed. I agree it would be "nice" to have proper pit stops but it would be a lot nicer to see other things incorporated. At the end of it all it comes down to priorities versus time available. Cheers! John

That was my point, Eric....I don't consider there to be any!! I've thrashed this sim since it was released and to be perfectly honest I find absolutely nothing to complain about insofar as the execution of the game is concerned. (I also have added too many third-party "graphics and audio enhancements" to even consider blowing all that work away and having to start again.) The only items that I would like to see addressed are really minor "historical" things, such as having the ability to "select and drop" the correct drivers onto the correct grid positions for each race. A few minor adjustments to some inaccuracies in the shape of the cars would be nice (Lotus, Honda and Eagle come to mind). And of course, for all those out there who, like me, have a lifestyle in which computer *** forms a minor part, the ability to save a race in progress. I think I've said it before (about a year ago!) but I'll say it again:- it is going to take a super effort by a super team to knock GPL off its perch. -- Best regards, Bruce. ====== The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff! http://welcome.to/the_stunned_mullet =============================================== >Just curious, what outstanding single player bugs would you like to >have seen addressed in the patch? >Eric

> Also... I see no mention of any improvements for the OpenGL patch? Obviously they consider the current opengl beta 2 patch satisfactory and have abandoned us non-3dfx, non-rendition card owners. Not that I couldn't live with the laggy mirrors but at least the random crashes need to be fixed.

Hey Randy et al... So, in the readme it is written: "GPL would sometimes shut down improperly, causing some files to not be saved, and some system settings to not be restored. This seemed to happen more often on slower systems. This has been fixed. These changes also improved game performance by one or two percent." Is this referring to the "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down" message that I occasionally get on my P166, usually in high-speed crashes or spins? If so, can I have the patch yesterday? J. P. Hovercraft -----------------------------

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> Ok, chances are you've all seen the README.TXT from the GPL patch. If not, > go here: > http://www.simracingnews.com/headlines/june99/072.htm > Anyway, What do you think? > Are there features you like? > Dislike? > Just curious.... > --Dave

This passage refers only to a problem that could arise when you exited the program normally from the main menu. GPL is a multi-threaded program, and sometimes the threads would argue over the order in which they would exit. They would eventually become disgusted with each other, and one would ExitProcess before yet another thread had a chance to save some data. Randy

Remember that this function is not available at the highest "realism" setting. -- Best regards, Bruce. ====== The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff! http://welcome.to/the_stunned_mullet =============================================== >As regards pit stops, if you do want to recreate the experience then >limp back to the pits, sit in the stall for 10 seconds and press >Shift-R to get the damage fixed.

>This passage refers only to a problem that could arise when you exited >the program normally from the main menu. GPL is a multi-threaded >program, and sometimes the threads would argue over the order in which >they would exit. They would eventually become disgusted with each >other Sounds like R.A.S. Don McCorkle Libertarian Motorsports

Would you welcome the accompanying loss in fps though?

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> one really big thing for me that i wish would have been addressed was how > the AI cars > if you tangle with them have this magic ability to get back on the track > very quickly and efficiently. > When the AI cars end up off the track they "magically" just *rotate* to the > direction of the track and then they are off. > Meanwhile i am hitting reverse, spinning my tires just to get pointed in the > right direction....while the AI car has already sped off to the horizon > -zAmboni > > Just curious, what outstanding single player bugs would you like to > > have seen addressed in the patch? > > Eric > > > Really an anti-climax for those of us who do not race on-line. In > > fact, I > > > doubt if I will bother obtaining the "upgrade" at all.

Yes, but to be exact, the question was "bugs", not candidates for GPL2. These are feature issues, not bug issues. This is a very generous patch I think since it is in many respects an upgrade as well.

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> Remember that this function is not available at the highest "realism" > setting. > -- > Best regards, > Bruce. > ====== > The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff! > http://welcome.to/the_stunned_mullet > =============================================== > >As regards pit stops, if you do want to recreate the experience then > >limp back to the pits, sit in the stall for 10 seconds and press > >Shift-R to get the damage fixed.

Great point about the Ring loop Graeme. And a good point for me to say my bit. I'd like to see sims in future offer the ability to run all tracks in the reverse direction, effectively giving us double the tracks. This means probable repositioning of S/F lines and grids. Reverse AI would be optional IMO - maybe in a later patch if the demand is there. But I think it should be there for online use right out of the box in future. Track packs and track editors are a chore or out of the question but this seems like a good way to get literally twice the mileage out of all the track designing :)

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> >Are there features you like? > All the online stuff :-) > >Dislike? > No dislikes, but I would have liked a couple of very minor things, such > as the ability to run on the pits loop at the 'Ring, thereby eliminating > the need for an 8-minute out-lap... Also it would be cool to sort out > the AI so that they can't turn around on a sixpence :-) > That aside - gimme it now! > -- > Cheers! > Graeme Nash > http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk > ICQ# 11257824 > ________________________________________________________________________________ > "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" > (Calvin & Hobbes)

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>This passage refers only to a problem that could arise when you exited >the program normally from the main menu. GPL is a multi-threaded >program, and sometimes the threads would argue over the order in which >they would exit. They would eventually become disgusted with each >other, and one would ExitProcess before yet another thread had a chance >to save some data. >Randy

Can't they all just get along...? <g> Eldred __ Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea... remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Byron, with respect, read the thread! I have already stated that I didn't consider the program to be "buggy"! -- Best regards, Bruce. ====== The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff! http://welcome.to/the_stunned_mullet =============================================== > Yes, but to be exact, the question was "bugs", not candidates for >GPL2. These are feature issues, not bug issues. This is a very generous >patch I think since it is in many respects an upgrade as well. >> Remember that this function is not available at the highest "realism" >> setting. >> -- >> Best regards, >> Bruce. >> ====== >> The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff! >> http://welcome.to/the_stunned_mullet >> =============================================== >> >As regards pit stops, if you do want to recreate the experience then >> >limp back to the pits, sit in the stall for 10 seconds and press >> >Shift-R to get the damage fixed.

What, exactly, is "reverse AI", Byron? "Artificial Stupidity"? -- Best regards, Bruce. ====== The Stunned Mullet........seriously satirical stuff! http://welcome.to/the_stunned_mullet =============================================== > Great point about the Ring loop Graeme. And a good point for me to >say my bit. > I'd like to see sims in future offer the ability to run all tracks in >the reverse direction, effectively giving us double the tracks. This >means probable repositioning of S/F lines and grids. Reverse AI would be >optional IMO - maybe in a later patch if the demand is there. But I >think it should be there for online use right out of the box in future. >Track packs and track editors are a chore or out of the question but >this seems like a good way to get literally twice the mileage out of all >the track designing :) >> >Are there features you like? >> All the online stuff :-) >> >Dislike? >> No dislikes, but I would have liked a couple of very minor things, such >> as the ability to run on the pits loop at the 'Ring, thereby eliminating >> the need for an 8-minute out-lap... Also it would be cool to sort out >> the AI so that they can't turn around on a sixpence :-) >> That aside - gimme it now! >> -- >> Cheers! >> Graeme Nash >> http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk >> ICQ# 11257824 ____________________________________________________________________________ ____

>That 2.50 ride height is going to mess >up the few good setups I have <VBG> Shut up Scott!!! <vbg> ... err ... wrong newsgroup ;-) -- tEeM sPeLcHeK http://www.concentric.net/~irnhed/index.shtml "Triskaidekaphobia in your mirror" OL5 SNASSCAR PROATI HSTS

Are you both driving the coventry/cooper or the other car was a coventry? There is a bug in physical/visible car dimentions. Car is wider than it looks like. To check, drive donuts in chase-view. The skids are not centred with the tires. There is a patch to correct this - but don't ask me where. Jens --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

No, the AI have to drive the correct direction - very challenging ;-) Jens <snip>. <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

LOL! -- Suck The Goat

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> >That's interesting - I have a similar replay where I made a great move > >on an AI car only for both of us to suddenly veer off the track as > >though we'd collided - I checked and there was at least a full > >tyre's-width between us at all times. > Are you both driving the coventry/cooper or the other car was a > coventry? > There is a bug in physical/visible car dimentions. Car is wider than > it looks like. To check, drive donuts in chase-view. The skids are not > centred with the tires. > There is a patch to correct this - but don't ask me where.

Yes, indeed I was driving the Coventry! Since it's such a simple fix, hopefully it will have been included in the upcoming 1.1.0.3 patch.