Viper Racing - Am I missing something?

Hi, after seeing a lot of positive messages here about Viper Racing I picked up the game and I have so say that overall I'm quite disappointed. Its not like the game is specifically bad ... its just that overall I find it lacks a certain 'something' and there are a few _really_ annoying niggles like dumb AI cars that ram you off the tracks and the unrealistic way you go flying if you hit a cactus or signpost. Those sorts of things really spoil the game for me. The handling seems to me to be extremely poor as well, but then since I've never driven a real race car maybe this is what a Viper is like at high speeds. If this is true to life then I'm glad I don't have to drive a Viper. The graphics are 'OK' ... I run at 1024x768 and they are certainly pretty but also seem quite 'minimalist' to me and artificial looking. The in-car view makes everything look really slow and I find that I prefer to use the 'suspension' view which gives a better feeling of speed and much more screen area. I much prefer the look of Toca2 or Midtown Madness. Just about the only thing that really impressed me was the force feedback which seems to be better implemented than anything else I've seen. Its still not perfect, and I have to admit that it doesn't convey to me the feeling of the tires losing grip in sharp turns, but it does seem to generally respond very well to things that happen in the game. I live in a German speaking country so my version has been totally 'germanified' meaning that I can't read the manual and have difficulty understaning many of the on-screen options which would certainly stop me from getting the most out of the game. Does anyone who's a fan of the game have some tips on how to get the best out of it? Gavan -- There can be only one............. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Hi, > Its not like the game is specifically bad ... its just that overall I >find it lacks a certain 'something' and there are a few _really_ >annoying niggles like dumb AI cars that ram you off the tracks and the >unrealistic way you go flying if you hit a cactus or signpost. Those >sorts of things really spoil the game for me. We had a discussion about AI cars in Viper before. IMHO, the AI cars are acting VERY good and MUCH better than in any other game I played (sorry, haven't tried GPL 8^). They race like humans. Please watch the replay. You will find that about 90% of the crashes are indeed _your_ fault and not theirs. It is hard to accept this fact, but once you do you will change your passing behaviour and crash less frequently. As far as I know Viper is the only game where the AI cars use exactly the same physics engine as the human driver. Herwig

I agree with a lot of your comments - it doesn't grab you the way GPL does, there isn't much actual racing in my experience. What made it worthwhile for me was the career mode - working your way up through each level is quite exciting. Oh and the multiplayer mode on a lan works really well. Regards, Greg.

I'll take another look at the crashes but it seems to me the problem is that the computer cars do not try to avoid colliding with you when you are in front of them. It's like they simply cannot see you. For example: If I travel far ahead of a car and then slow down for a tricky bend or climb, its extremely likely the car following me will catch up and drive straight into the back of me. This happens almost every time I play - I get ahead on one part of the course but as soon as I hit an area where I am slower (like any bendy stretch of road) the computer catches up and procedes to try to drive straight through me. Yes, you can see the other cars spin and crash which makes a nice change to many racers where the computer cars just zoom around the course 'on rails'. But that still doesn't excuse the fact that they apparently pay no attention to you if you are in front of them and going slower. And then theres those damn trackside obstacles like cacti and roadsigns that cause you to go cartwheeling if you hit them - I mean, how unrealistic is that? Given that the car has an extreme tendency to drift outward on corners its incredibly frustrating to have the car clip a roadsign or piece of cactus on a corner and have the thing go spinning into the air. And thats on 'simulation' setting! Also, the car seems very unresponsive. If the back end starts to slide out and I correct it with opposing lock, its like everything is happening in slow motion and the whole thing just oscillates out of control. It feels like the physics are more or less accurate in principle, but they are too 'slow' if you see what I mean. Gavan -- There can be only one............. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I hate the game. i never read any positive messages about the game, just questions. Schumacher

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> Hi, > after seeing a lot of positive messages here about Viper Racing I > picked up the game and I have so say that overall I'm quite > disappointed. > Its not like the game is specifically bad ... its just that overall I > find it lacks a certain 'something' and there are a few _really_ > annoying niggles like dumb AI cars that ram you off the tracks and the > unrealistic way you go flying if you hit a cactus or signpost. Those > sorts of things really spoil the game for me. > The handling seems to me to be extremely poor as well, but then > since I've never driven a real race car maybe this is what a Viper is > like at high speeds. If this is true to life then I'm glad I don't have > to drive a Viper. > The graphics are 'OK' ... I run at 1024x768 and they are certainly > pretty but also seem quite 'minimalist' to me and artificial looking. > The in-car view makes everything look really slow and I find that I > prefer to use the 'suspension' view which gives a better feeling of > speed and much more screen area. I much prefer the look of Toca2 or > Midtown Madness. > Just about the only thing that really impressed me was the force > feedback which seems to be better implemented than anything else I've > seen. Its still not perfect, and I have to admit that it doesn't > convey to me the feeling of the tires losing grip in sharp turns, but > it does seem to generally respond very well to things that happen in the > game. > I live in a German speaking country so my version has been totally > 'germanified' meaning that I can't read the manual and have difficulty > understaning many of the on-screen options which would certainly stop me > from getting the most out of the game. > Does anyone who's a fan of the game have some tips on how to get the > best out of it? > Gavan > -- > There can be only one............. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

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> after seeing a lot of positive messages here about Viper Racing I >picked up the game and I have so say that overall I'm quite >disappointed. > Its not like the game is specifically bad ... its just that overall I >find it lacks a certain 'something' and there are a few _really_ >annoying niggles like dumb AI cars that ram you off the tracks and the >unrealistic way you go flying if you hit a cactus or signpost. Those >sorts of things really spoil the game for me.

I agree that a certain fun factor is missing from the game. I bought it after GPL and played it a lot for a limited time, but now I'm back to GPL and Viper is almost forgotten. I have to disagree about the AI, though. As the other guy said, watch the replays and ask yourself: did the AI car have a chance to avoid the crash? The AI opponents are not the most considerate drivers, but they obey to the same laws of physics as your car does. They try not to hit you, but sometimes it simply can't be done. If you start in career mode, you have a 'standard issue' Viper which, I guess, is even less usable for racing than a real Viper would be on track. But when you collect some money and buy the add-ons, the car gets better. [snip] Rest assured that even native speakers of German have a hard time with this 'localized' version. The translation of the menues is often pretty misleading, if not outright wrong. F.i., one of the effexts options reads "Spiegelungen", which would mean 'reflections'. But what does "Reflexionen" (the next point on the list) mean then? As it turns out, "Spiegelungen" toggles the rearview mirrors... Start a career, get used to the car and try to get up into the next category. Improving the car and finding better setups later on is fun. -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

[snip] My favourite is the german version of NFHSH, were they refer to "dead zone" as "Todeszone". Really.:) Greetings, Andreas -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Worueber man nicht reden kann, darueber muss man schweigen."(Wittgenstein) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi!, What I feel is that the default setups are all totally wrong. I have tweaked them almost opposite to get the feeling right - Viper really should be relative easy to drive (front engine). Hard front and soft rear is the basic thing. The setup I start experimenting is (for slow tracks) bump 90 front 20 rear rebound 40 f 80 r springs 40 f 20 r rollbars, low power 85 f 80 r, high power 90 f 70 r wings, low speed 100 f 100 r, high speed 80 f 85-90 r Feel free to try these, Tapani

I feel the game is very realistic. One of the best parts is the fact that the AI uses the same physics engine as the player's car. It's a lot more realistic that way.

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> Hi, > after seeing a lot of positive messages here about Viper Racing I > picked up the game and I have so say that overall I'm quite > disappointed. > Its not like the game is specifically bad ... its just that overall I > find it lacks a certain 'something' and there are a few _really_ > annoying niggles like dumb AI cars that ram you off the tracks and the > unrealistic way you go flying if you hit a cactus or signpost. Those > sorts of things really spoil the game for me. > The handling seems to me to be extremely poor as well, but then > since I've never driven a real race car maybe this is what a Viper is > like at high speeds. If this is true to life then I'm glad I don't have > to drive a Viper. > The graphics are 'OK' ... I run at 1024x768 and they are certainly > pretty but also seem quite 'minimalist' to me and artificial looking. > The in-car view makes everything look really slow and I find that I > prefer to use the 'suspension' view which gives a better feeling of > speed and much more screen area. I much prefer the look of Toca2 or > Midtown Madness. > Just about the only thing that really impressed me was the force > feedback which seems to be better implemented than anything else I've > seen. Its still not perfect, and I have to admit that it doesn't > convey to me the feeling of the tires losing grip in sharp turns, but > it does seem to generally respond very well to things that happen in the > game. > I live in a German speaking country so my version has been totally > 'germanified' meaning that I can't read the manual and have difficulty > understaning many of the on-screen options which would certainly stop me > from getting the most out of the game. > Does anyone who's a fan of the game have some tips on how to get the > best out of it? > Gavan > -- > There can be only one............. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Have you set the drive mode to 'Simulation'? I have to say that Viper is one of the most accurate simulations besides GPL. The drive model is incredibly good; it models downshift chassis instability, correctable oversteer, transition from understeer to power oversteer. The AI is great too; generally they are very cautious and they don't overtake unless sure of their path. The graphics are fine at 1,024 x 768 on V2SLI and so is the force feedback. T.

Thanks for the help, I'll have a go at inputting these (after I get my German/English dictionary out!) and see if it enhances my experience. Gavan -- There can be only one............. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Yes, that got me too as a lot of the words didn't seem to mean what my dictionary said they would. It's too bad theres no way to make it revert to English - there is an option for 'language' in the config file but if you change it, the game automatically changes it back to 'German'. At least the copy of Unreal I got with my SBLive allowed you to pick either English or German as your in-game languages. These localised versions seem to be quite often poorly translated, not compatible with patches and late (due to the need to translate). They should code games with a configurable language file instead of hardcoding the text into the games. That way people could enjoy them in any language and patches would work with everything. Gavan -- There can be only one............. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Viper is the most realistic game out there . Physics are much more realistic than GPL where it feels like you can't even control a car going 50 miles per hour. The only drawback is that you have to use the bumper view to get the proper feeling of speed [ it's my favorite view anyway so it works great for me ]. The colision you mention happens not because they do not see you , but because they want to bump you on purpose , after all all Nascar drivers do this quite frequently [ although they may not admit it ]. Crashes are great although a bit over the top sometimes. The bottom line is if you want physics realism this is THE ONLY GAME THAT PROVIDES IT. SCGT is pretty good, but not very realistic GPL is overrated [ nobody here has a clue what driving a '67 F-1 car feels like anyway so all this talk of realism is nonsense, I just know that those cars were hard to drive over 100mph, but in this game it starts to get tricky at what feels like 40-50 mph, which is bullshit ] To get the most out of Viper drive in bumper view play with set-ups, makes a huge difference get to at least the PRO level, it gets much better when you can afford better parts. the rest should take care of itself. To get most out of GPL Wait 'til they invent a CD writer/eraser that can erase any CD and then you can use it to back up your files to it.

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> Hi, > after seeing a lot of positive messages here about Viper Racing I > picked up the game and I have so say that overall I'm quite > disappointed. > Its not like the game is specifically bad ... its just that overall I > find it lacks a certain 'something' and there are a few _really_ > annoying niggles like dumb AI cars that ram you off the tracks and the > unrealistic way you go flying if you hit a cactus or signpost. Those > sorts of things really spoil the game for me. > The handling seems to me to be extremely poor as well, but then > since I've never driven a real race car maybe this is what a Viper is > like at high speeds. If this is true to life then I'm glad I don't have > to drive a Viper. > The graphics are 'OK' ... I run at 1024x768 and they are certainly > pretty but also seem quite 'minimalist' to me and artificial looking. > The in-car view makes everything look really slow and I find that I > prefer to use the 'suspension' view which gives a better feeling of > speed and much more screen area. I much prefer the look of Toca2 or > Midtown Madness. > Just about the only thing that really impressed me was the force > feedback which seems to be better implemented than anything else I've > seen. Its still not perfect, and I have to admit that it doesn't > convey to me the feeling of the tires losing grip in sharp turns, but > it does seem to generally respond very well to things that happen in the > game. > I live in a German speaking country so my version has been totally > 'germanified' meaning that I can't read the manual and have difficulty > understaning many of the on-screen options which would certainly stop me > from getting the most out of the game. > Does anyone who's a fan of the game have some tips on how to get the > best out of it? > Gavan > -- > There can be only one............. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

>> Hi, >> after seeing a lot of positive messages here about Viper Racing I >> picked up the game and I have so say that overall I'm quite >> disappointed. Put some time in with it and it gets alot better. The career mode is what this game is about, it's great once you have bought all the upgrades and are in the GT class. Winning the GT career class is challenging and the handling is tons better than what you will experience in the lower levels. Setup is very important and you can download good ones from Viper sites on the net. The suspension view is generally regarded as the best driving view. I agree that the AI cars do often drive like morons and intentionally ram you, but this happens less with the drivers at the front of the pack than at the rear, so as you start getting better and running at the front you will get less of it. It's not entirely unrealistic, just watch some British Touring Car racing on tv. Yes the crashing is over the top, but again, as your driving gets better you will be crashing alot less and experiencing very little of this. I have every drive sim out there but I'm currently having the most fun with Viper. Don Scurlock Vancouver, B.C.

Maybe you need more practice then. -- Cheers! Graeme Nash http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk ICQ# 11257824 "Keyboard error or no keyboard attached. Press F1 for help"

> These localised versions seem to be quite often poorly translated, >not compatible with patches and late (due to the need to translate). >They should code games with a configurable language file instead of >hardcoding the text into the games. That way people could enjoy them in >any language and patches would work with everything. Amen, brother. I don't even blame the folks who do the translations: if the conditions are similar to those when translating books or movie/TV scripts (I know people who work in these businesses), they get a lot of pressure and very little money. But having simple text files for the different languages would make things much more agreeable, even if the translation is screwed up. -- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Download the GT hack and set the "opponent strength" to 6 in your options.cfg file. Then you can continue GT class racing in the Quick Race. The somewhat moronic AI is right. Run some laps in GT class on Sunset Mesa and observe the idiots spinning out and running into each other on the switchbacks. I admit, in Simulation mode the switchbacks *can* be tricky if not taken properly *and* having to navigate around other cars at the same time is even trickier, but you'd think that at the very least the three or four best GT opponents would be able to do it. Never happens. Even Finkel, the best GT AI, spins out everytime. Of course that's not even mentioning all the other places on the other tracks where common sense simply dictates slowing down and trying to *avoid* accidents which the AI opponents frequently seem unable to do. Well, regardless of anything including the lack of customization (tracks, textures, sounds, cars, ...) I love the game...

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> Put some time in with it and it gets alot better. The career mode is what this > game is about, it's great once you have bought all the upgrades and are in the > GT class. Winning the GT career class is challenging and the handling is tons > better than what you will experience in the lower levels. Setup is very > important and you can download good ones from Viper sites on the net. The > suspension view is generally regarded as the best driving view. I agree that > the AI cars do often drive like morons and intentionally ram you, but this > happens less with the drivers at the front of the pack than at the rear, so as > you start getting better and running at the front you will get less of it. It's > not entirely unrealistic, just watch some British Touring Car racing on tv. > Yes the crashing is over the top, but again, as your driving gets better you > will be crashing alot less and experiencing very little of this. > I have every drive sim out there but I'm currently having the most fun with > Viper. > Don Scurlock > Vancouver, B.C.

-- Morgan V.

I have another one for you, although quite OT The latest James Bond title was:"Tomorrow never dies" For Germany there was translated :"Der Morgen stirbt nie". For the few english-speaking guys: "The morning never dies" (In german "morgen" means "tomorrow" or "morning" Obviously somebody translated the title without any english-knowledge only using a dictionary. Jens --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

But at least you know, that anybody in the group doesn't know anything. Since you are the only one blessed with knowledge, don't waste your time with us idiots. Shut up and go back to your "realistic" Mickey Mouse tire squealing Jens <snip> <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Well, if 'Morgen' means either 'tomorrow' or 'morning', the translation was correct? Andre

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>I have another one for you, although quite OT >The latest James Bond title was:"Tomorrow never dies" >For Germany there was translated :"Der Morgen stirbt nie". >For the few english-speaking guys: "The morning never dies" (In german >"morgen" means "tomorrow" or "morning" >Obviously somebody translated the title without any english-knowledge >only using a dictionary. >Jens >>My favourite is the german version of NFHSH, were they refer to "dead zone" as >>"Todeszone". Really.:) >>Greetings, >>Andreas >--------------------------------------------- >Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

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>I have another one for you, although quite OT >The latest James Bond title was:"Tomorrow never dies" >For Germany there was translated :"Der Morgen stirbt nie". >For the few english-speaking guys: "The morning never dies" (In german >"morgen" means "tomorrow" or "morning" >Obviously somebody translated the title without any english-knowledge >only using a dictionary.

Well, that one was a bit difficult, since the title of the movie also referred to the title of a magazine owned by the bad guy, or something. The translator tried to conserve the pun; and "Morgen stirbt nie" or "Das Morgen stirbt nie" (which would be correct translations) sound really stupid. Whatever. I have a good on-topic one, though: I just bought "Midtown Madness" - by *Microsoft*, mind, not by a small publisher without sufficient manpower to make good localizations - in the (almost) completely translated German version. Apart from really appalling voice-over commentaries (soo k3wl and soo funny it makes you wanna puke), the written text contains one of the biggest bloopers ever: In the demo, the starting sequence goes "ready - set - GO!" The German equivalent would be "Achtung - fertig - LOS!" ("Auf die Plaetze - fertig - LOS!" would also be acceptable.) But how did they translate it? "Fertig - feststellen - LOS!" What the heck is that supposed to mean? I'm fairly sure no race was ever started with these words in the history of the German language. "feststellen" - well... This reminds me of the old Monty Python sketch about the deadly joke: while translating it into German, none of the translators was allowed to see more than one word - otherwise, they would die laughing. Apparently, the joke was still intelligible after this procedure, though, unlike this 'localized' rubbish. ;)

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>>My favourite is the german version of NFHSH, were they refer to "dead zone" as >>"Todeszone". Really.:) >>Greetings, >>Andreas >--------------------------------------------- >Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

-- Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

better Mickey Mouse tire squeals and realistic driving feel than realistic tire squeals and Mickey Mouse driving like GPL

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> But at least you know, that anybody in the group doesn't know > anything. > Since you are the only one blessed with knowledge, don't waste your > time with us idiots. Shut up and go back to your "realistic" Mickey > Mouse tire squealing > Jens > <snip> > >GPL is overrated [ nobody here has a clue what driving a '67 F-1 car

feels > >like anyway so > >all this talk of realism is nonsense, I just know that those cars were hard > >to drive over 100mph, > <snip> > --------------------------------------------- > Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Troll-o-meter: v 1------------------10 -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Translation "correct", sence missed. Jens >Well, if 'Morgen' means either 'tomorrow' or 'morning', the >translation was correct? >Andre --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address