Help: Saitek R4 Force in GPL

Well, I just purchased a refirb direct from Saitek and I'm not wholly impressed with it. The pedal throw is very short--especially the brake--compared to my T2 pedals. Does anyone know how I can use the T2 pedals and the R4 wheel? Second, the wheel uses Microsoft Force Feedback Technology so those of you with MSFF, maybe you could help me. When I have the force feedback enabled and I'm racing, I find that wheel has a bit of lag. But worse, when I make quick corrections [in GPL], including to opposite lock, the calibration gets messed up. It's like when I make those quick corrections, the wheel seems to slip on the belts that run the feedback. This problem doesn't occur when I have the feedback turned off. In fact, the optical system is very accurate, allowing me to catch spins that I wouldn't have with my T2. It's just when the feedback is on that I have this problem with the wheel losing its calibration. Please help with some suggestions! Thanks... -- Dream High, Aim High, Fly High--U.S. Air Force -- *****The WINGMAN*****

If you have a fast system, adjust the latency in the GPL .ini file down to (or towards) zero. Can make a huge difference. Marc.

Don't turn the wheel too much, you never need to do that in normal racing. If it oversteers too much, steering gets very light and loose. If there actually is something "wrong" in your wheel, here's my suggestion: I suggest you lower your steering ratio(I have it 10:1) and by doing that, try to be more precise with _less&short_ wheel moves. What comes to "lag": Minimize delay in the core.ini file in GPL folder(which usually causes the lag, I mean.....it's not folders fault, but too big latency in the file...<G>). My core.ini setup: --- force_feedback_latency = 0.00001 ; force feedback latency (secs) ---- If that's too restless(too precise&responsive) for you, increase it a bit. :) Make sure you ain't editing core.ini.sample file! Editing that doesn't have ANY effect. Yeah. Optical is best solution IMO, no problems with pots -> stays very accurate. I had suspicions before buying MS FF that optical wasn't accurate, but now I know it is accurate and I'm very happy with my MS FF. I hope you get your steering right ;) Wingman kirjoitti viestiss? ...

thanks for the suggestions. I've put the latency low, and the maxforce higher. I'm really growing annoyed with this force feedback thing, but the pedals are just horrible! -- *****The WINGMAN*****

In article Hey Wingman, Like you, I also purchased a re-furbed R4 Force Wheel... Overall it isn't too bad... very precise steering, FF is OK I suppose... The paddle shifters are a bit too long and get caught up in my fingers... I may cut those down... ;-) But, your right, the pedals are crap... the travel is just too short to get any precision in varying the brake and throttle position. I also have a T2... love the pedals on it, especially after I "modified" them to use "rollers" as the pedals themselves. Basically, I used 2" wide bed casters and a 3" long 1/4" bolt. So, now instead of those flat pedals, I have a smooth roller under my foot... very smooth. Now, how can we attach these to the R4 wheel... I haven't figured it out yet... in fact, I haven't yet opened the R4 pedal box to peek inside yet. I suspect the R4 pedals use pots... but if they use optical sensors it won't be possible, at least not for my skill. If the R4 uses pots, it may be possible to rig a connection from the T2 pedals to the R4 wheel. The R4 uses a phone-style jack with 4 connectors. *If* these are connected pairwise to a pair of pots in the R4 pedals, then, it may be possible to connect a standard phone extension cord to the pots in the T2 pedals. From a previous inspection, the T2 pedal pots are wired in series, which is why the T2 throttle and brake are always on a single axis. I would imagine that you would have to wire them individually for the R4. I was considering the following wiring using a switch so I could use the T2 pedals with my T2 and possibly the R4. *** KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS A DESIGN, I HAVEN'T BUILT IT SO I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WORKS **** .-------. .----------. +--| Brake |---+ +---| Throttle |--+ | .-------. | | .----------. | | +---/ /---+ | +------------+ | SPST | +---------------+

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| | | Switch | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | {to R4} {to R4} | | | | +-----------------------------------------+ | | | |

{to T2} You'll need to cut the wire between the 2 pots in the original T2 pedals and insert a single-pole, single-throw toggle switch. Attach leads for the phone wire connection to the the R4, pairwise to the "side" of each pot. Then with the toggle switch open, the pedals would be seperate for the R4. With the toggle closed, the pedals are configured for the T2. ***AGAIN, I HAVEN'T BUILT THIS... ONLY THINKING ABOUT IT *** Also, if the R4 pedals use optical sensors, this design goes right out the window. Also, if the R4 pedals use pots, we'll need the check their resistance... i think the T2 pedals use 150K ohm linear pots, not radio taper. Thoughts??? Comments... Other ideas??? Ed Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I suspect the R4 pedals use pots... It uses pots... Zolli

says... Sounds like a lot of work to me, especially with the schedule I have. I was just thinking about cutting the stop on the R4 brake pedal to get a bit longer throw. Other than that, I can't think of anything else to do other than switch back to the trusty T2. See what happens when you try to buy the first wheel in over 4 years?!? -- Dream High, Aim High, Fly High--U.S. Air Force -- *****The WINGMAN*****

I stuck a raquetball underneath/behind the brake pedal, and duct taped it to the pedal "shaft". It's much sturdier than it sounds. Just wrap it around a few times. You won't get a longer throw this way, of course, but once you get used to brakes that are pressure sensitive rather than travel sensitive, it feels pretty sweet. Personally, I like it better than my old Thrusty Nascar Pro pedals. Raquetballs are very cheap, about $2 for a can of 2. Plus, it won't void your warranty. Havent modified the accelerator yet, but I spose you could try a nerf ball or something.

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>says... >>***AGAIN, I HAVEN'T BUILT THIS... ONLY THINKING ABOUT IT *** >>Also, if the R4 pedals use optical sensors, this design goes right out >>the window. >>Also, if the R4 pedals use pots, we'll need the check their >>resistance... i think the T2 pedals use 150K ohm linear pots, not radio >>taper. >>Thoughts??? Comments... Other ideas??? >Sounds like a lot of work to me, especially with the schedule I have. I

was >just thinking about cutting the stop on the R4 brake pedal to get a bit longer >throw. Other than that, I can't think of anything else to do other than switch

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>back to the trusty T2. >See what happens when you try to buy the first wheel in over 4 years?!? >-- >Dream High, Aim High, Fly High--U.S. Air Force >-- >*****The WINGMAN*****

No, see below The pedals use logarithmic pots, about 100K /Bj.O.rn, SDK #1225

Logarithm pots !?!?!? Good grief, no wonder the pedals are so touchy, in addition to the short pedal throw... BTW, my previous post regarding a circuit configuration to connect to T2 pedals is incorrect. The pot wiring is considerably different between tthe R4 and T2 pedal designs. I'm working on a circuit design that *may* work. It requires a 4-pole, double-throw (4PDT) switch. The difficult may arise in the total resistance of the pots, since the R4 uses 100K (logarithmic) pots and the T2 uses linear 150K pots. Stay tuned. Ed Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.