In case you missed it in the thread below, it looks like Dirt Track Racing
WILL include a spectator mode that will allow non-participants to actually
watch on-line race. I have a feeling this is going to revolutionize on-line
racing . . .
-----Original Message-----
Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
Date: Sunday, September 05, 1999 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: N3 vs DTR
Dont worry, spectator mode is currently in DTR and isnt being taken out.
This is a BIG BIG step forward. I'll be taking a look at the Sim for
this reason and hope that it is as good as it sounds :)
mike
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Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
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Quoted text (12 lines)
> In case you missed it in the thread below, it looks like Dirt Track Racing > WILL include a spectator mode that will allow non-participants to actually > watch on-line race. I have a feeling this is going to revolutionize on-line > racing . . . > -----Original Message----- > Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators > Date: Sunday, September 05, 1999 11:04 PM > Subject: Re: N3 vs DTR > Dont worry, spectator mode is currently in DTR and isnt being taken out.> This is a BIG BIG step forward.
I couldn't agree more. If online racing is ever going to be a real
sport, there has to be spectators. How great would it be to be able to
watch the fastest guys in the world turning 1:28s at Monza in GPL, or
94mph at Sears Point in N2. Papyrus has some great programmers, but
Sierra doesn't seem to have any vision at all for growing this market.
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Quoted text (7 lines)
>> This is a BIG BIG step forward. >I couldn't agree more. If online racing is ever going to be a real >sport, there has to be spectators. How great would it be to be able to >watch the fastest guys in the world turning 1:28s at Monza in GPL, or >94mph at Sears Point in N2. Papyrus has some great programmers, but >Sierra doesn't seem to have any vision at all for growing this market.>> This is a BIG BIG step forward.
>I couldn't agree more. If online racing is ever going to be a real
>sport, there has to be spectators.
Quite simply it'll never be a real sport. There are resonable arguments over
why game like quake etc, which simulatre *** activity which in reality
woudl lead to death can make the transitions to sport, but quite how tennis,
cricket, baseball, football and motor racing can make this jump is well...
silly.
They'll all be games until they can simulate G forces on your neck& body.
Z.
Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.
>I on the other hand, find the idea of spectating completely laughable. Motor
>racing, yes, ok, guys going out and pushing hard at fear of risk.... but um..
>Pc racing... excuse me while i laugh.
>Z.
I kinda felt the same way about viewing Pc Racing... until... comparing it
to some other "sports".
Before even considering "broadcasting" races to the "masses" we would need a
large base of participants so that the "cream" was capable of putting on a
show worth watching.
One of the strong points of Pc Racing is the "you too can participate"
aspect.
The "sport" I would compare Pc Racing to would be Bowling... not exactly a
common spectator sport, but it does have (or atleast did have) a well rated
time slot on national TV. Why? I'm not really sure, but I have to believe
it's the "you too can participate" aspect.
You've apparently never been stuck in a chat room, twiddling your thumbs
while waiting for others to complete their heat, have you? One element of
real-world dirt track racing is heats, sprints, and features -- and an
elimination system that advances the leaders and retires the losers.
While you're waiting for your heat, you also get to watch the competition as
they compete in their heats. THIS is what DTR will allow on-line racers to
do. Rather than waiting idly in the chat room while others race, you'll be
able to WATCH them race, and, possibly, to get a line on what your
competitors are made of. This is worth a lot to me, from both an
entertainment standpoint and from a learning standpoint.
Plus, wouldn't it be nice if newbies were able to simply OBSERVE some of the
action in GPL, for example, before jumping in and trying it themselves?
Seems like THIS would be a good selling point for any game -- and a good
marketing tool -- in and of itself.
So go ahead and laugh -- I think the rest of us will be waiting in eager
anticipation of this feature, though.
- JB
Motor
>racing, yes, ok, guys going out and pushing hard at fear of risk.... but um..
>Pc racing... excuse me while i laugh.
>Z.
>Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.
Quoted text (9 lines)
>>> This is a BIG BIG step forward. >>I couldn't agree more. If online racing is ever going to be a real >>sport, there has to be spectators. How great would it be to be able to >>watch the fastest guys in the world turning 1:28s at Monza in GPL, or >>94mph at Sears Point in N2. Papyrus has some great programmers, but >>Sierra doesn't seem to have any vision at all for growing this market. >I on the other hand, find the idea of spectating completely laughable.People argue that bowling and golf aren't "real" sports, too -- and they
also say that race drivers aren't "real" athletes, either. So what's your
point?
I doubt that they'll ever be able to simulate bowling, golf, or tennis so
well that people will ever care to spectate -- those sports are all about
physical prowess.
Racing, on the other hand, is all about man and machine working together to
endure the conditions, find the right line, stay out of trouble, and win the
race. All of THAT can be simulated -- it doesn't matter all that much if
the "machine" is a Ferrari or a Compaq, it's STILL a melding of man AND
machine; the only difference is real-world environment versus simulated
environment, and those lines are blurring more and more every day.
I've seen plenty of sim replays from various sims that were every bit as
exciting to watch as a real-life race, so while YOU might not be able to
swallow the concept of watching a virtual race, I DEFINTELY could, and would
spectate.
Put a few of the world's best GPL drivers together and give us the ability
to spectate in real-time while they raced against each other online, and you
can bet there would be a TON of people out there who would want to watch --
both those who DID get to see the 1967 GP season, as well as those of us who
missed it the first time around. It would definitely be more interesting
than the last Holyfield fight (and I REALLY like Holyfield). <G>
-- JB
>>> This is a BIG BIG step forward.
>>I couldn't agree more. If online racing is ever going to be a real
>>sport, there has to be spectators.
>Quite simply it'll never be a real sport. There are resonable arguments over
>why game like quake etc, which simulatre *** activity which in reality
>woudl lead to death can make the transitions to sport, but quite how tennis,
Quoted text (8 lines)
>cricket, baseball, football and motor racing can make this jump is well... >silly. >They'll all be games until they can simulate G forces on your neck& body. >Z. >Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.Quoted text (7 lines)
>> This is a BIG BIG step forward. >I couldn't agree more. If online racing is ever going to be a real >sport, there has to be spectators. How great would it be to be able to >watch the fastest guys in the world turning 1:28s at Monza in GPL, or >94mph at Sears Point in N2. Papyrus has some great programmers, but >Sierra doesn't seem to have any vision at all for growing this market.Have you ever viewed a replay in any racing sim? That's "spectating".
Cheers,
Richard
On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:04:32 -0500, "John Bodin"
John, I'm wondering what sort of bandwidth limitations there are on
this (ie: how many spectators)?
After all, today you can join a GPL/VROC race and simply watch the
live "replay" as well (but you are counted in the [up to] 19 client
limit).
"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark
Quoted text (19 lines)
>You've apparently never been stuck in a chat room, twiddling your thumbs >while waiting for others to complete their heat, have you? One element of >real-world dirt track racing is heats, sprints, and features -- and an >elimination system that advances the leaders and retires the losers. >While you're waiting for your heat, you also get to watch the competition as >they compete in their heats. THIS is what DTR will allow on-line racers to >do. Rather than waiting idly in the chat room while others race, you'll be >able to WATCH them race, and, possibly, to get a line on what your >competitors are made of. This is worth a lot to me, from both an >entertainment standpoint and from a learning standpoint. >Plus, wouldn't it be nice if newbies were able to simply OBSERVE some of the >action in GPL, for example, before jumping in and trying it themselves? >Seems like THIS would be a good selling point for any game -- and a good >marketing tool -- in and of itself. >So go ahead and laugh -- I think the rest of us will be waiting in eager >anticipation of this feature, though.> John, I'm wondering what sort of bandwidth limitations there are on
> this (ie: how many spectators)?
If they setup the Host/server with an option to stream out it's replay
data for the race, then just allow anyone to add their IP address to
the list to recieve that data, it shouldn't have much effect on
bandwidth. The server would only be transmitting the data one time, no
matter how many people elect to recieve it.
I would love to see this option added to the GPL server. When you join
a race in GPL the server has to send different data to every car, plus
it has to listen to each client in case they decide to fire up the
engine and jump in the fray.
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Jeff:
Long time no see and did we have some great times racing on
Hawaii.. hehe.. How is the real racing world treating you?
Find out real soon....
You can do the same thing in NASCAR on ten.. you can join a race
and just watch.
Good seeing you
dw
VERY good point, Richard -- THANKS!
-- JB
>>I on the other hand, find the idea of spectating completely laughable. Motor
>>racing, yes, ok, guys going out and pushing hard at fear of risk.... but um..
>>Pc racing... excuse me while i laugh.
>Have you ever viewed a replay in any racing sim? That's "spectating".
>Cheers,
>Richard
I have no idea what this would do to the bandwidth, or if only a limited
number of spectators will be allowed.
It seems to me that a game with a replay mode should be able to stream the
replay data stream out to a host server (possibly a separate server than the
one hosting the actual race) while the replay data is being stored in
memory -- this replay data stream could "broadcast" for viewing by anybody
on the Internet with a replay viewer. This method might mean a slight time
lag or delay between the competitors' "real time" environment and the
spectators' viewing environment, but it wouldn't be much more than a live TV
broadcast's standard 5-second delay, I wouldn't imagine.
Than again, I don't know how Ratbag or Motorsims plan to implement their
spectator modes. However they decide to implement it, I'm sure there's got
to be a better way to do it besides the GPL "join and just watch rather than
playing" method. We'll all see soon enough, I'm sure!
-- JB
as
>>they compete in their heats. THIS is what DTR will allow on-line racers to
>>do. Rather than waiting idly in the chat room while others race, you'll be
>>able to WATCH them race, and, possibly, to get a line on what your
>>competitors are made of. This is worth a lot to me, from both an
>>entertainment standpoint and from a learning standpoint.
>>Plus, wouldn't it be nice if newbies were able to simply OBSERVE some of the
Quoted text (9 lines)
>On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:04:32 -0500, "John Bodin" >>You've apparently never been stuck in a chat room, twiddling your thumbs >>while waiting for others to complete their heat, have you? One element of >>real-world dirt track racing is heats, sprints, and features -- and an >>elimination system that advances the leaders and retires the losers. >>While you're waiting for your heat, you also get to watch the competitionQuoted text (17 lines)
>>action in GPL, for example, before jumping in and trying it themselves? >>Seems like THIS would be a good selling point for any game -- and a good >>marketing tool -- in and of itself. >>So go ahead and laugh -- I think the rest of us will be waiting in eager >>anticipation of this feature, though. > John, I'm wondering what sort of bandwidth limitations there are on >this (ie: how many spectators)? > After all, today you can join a GPL/VROC race and simply watch the >live "replay" as well (but you are counted in the [up to] 19 client >limit). >"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was >nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into >a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim ClarkQuoted text (8 lines)
>>I on the other hand, find the idea of spectating completely laughable. Motor >>racing, yes, ok, guys going out and pushing hard at fear of risk.... but um.. >>Pc racing... excuse me while i laugh. >Have you ever viewed a replay in any racing sim? That's "spectating". >Cheers, >RichardThere was an interesting thread started by Neil Raine in June about setting
up spectators in GPL.
Do a dejanews search on "Real GPL crowds".
> In case you missed it in the thread below, it looks like Dirt Track Racing
> WILL include a spectator mode that will allow non-participants to actually
> watch on-line race. I have a feeling this is going to revolutionize on-line
Quoted text (9 lines)
> racing . . . > -----Original Message----- > Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators > Date: Sunday, September 05, 1999 11:04 PM > Subject: Re: N3 vs DTR > Dont worry, spectator mode is currently in DTR and isnt being taken out.>In case you missed it in the thread below, it looks like Dirt Track Racing
>WILL include a spectator mode that will allow non-participants to actually
>watch on-line race. I have a feeling this is going to revolutionize on-line
>racing . . .
I'm really looking forward to the spectator mode,as more than once I
wanted to watch a race at Monaco (GPL),but as the number of drivers headed
towards the max,I had to bail out to allow another driver to race.
JA Willstein
>You've apparently never been stuck in a chat room, twiddling your thumbs
>while waiting for others to complete their heat, have you? One element of
>real-world dirt track racing is heats, sprints, and features -- and an
>elimination system that advances the leaders and retires the losers.
>Plus, wouldn't it be nice if newbies were able to simply OBSERVE some of the
John,
Every once in a while I will watch a race at Monaco as a spectator at
VROC/Spyboy. And since the races are almost never full,I've never had to
disconnect to make room for a racer. But I do disconnect and check a few
times during practice to make sure that the race isn't full.
JA Willstein
