AI behaviour.

Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but because you have more invested in the racing experience. Marc.

OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a GP at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in 5th place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him. It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able to continue. The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating themselves from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. Mark

No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step backwards, a large part of the reason I quit the game.

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>Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but >because you have more invested in the racing experience. >Marc. >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a GP >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in >5th >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him. >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able >> to continue. >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating >themselves >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. >> Mark

What? And which racing game has a better AI then? Even though the AI makes mistakes now and then, I love racing against the AI. And if you don't like racing the AI, you can allways race online? Andre

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>No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step backwards, a >large part of the reason I quit the game. >>Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems >>worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but >>because you have more invested in the racing experience. >>Marc. >>> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a GP >>> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in >>5th >>> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him. >>> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able >>> to continue. >>> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was >>> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that >>> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating >>themselves >>> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be >>> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After >>> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full >>> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have >>> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny >>> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. >>> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. >>> Mark

If, by a "step backwards", you mean behaviour generally closer to reality than any other sim to date, then, yes, it's a "step backwards". > No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step backwards, a > large part of the reason I quit the game. > >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems > >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but

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> >because you have more invested in the racing experience. > >Marc. > >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a

GP > >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in > >5th > >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him. > >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able > >> to continue. > >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was > >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that > >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating > >themselves > >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be > >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After > >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full > >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have > >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny > >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. > >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. > >> Mark -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

> What? And which racing game has a better AI then? Even though the AI > makes mistakes now and then, I love racing against the AI. And if you > don't like racing the AI, you can allways race online? GP2 ! has better AI. No "lp" files. A game who have great AI is a game where AI drive cars like human . I mean dynamics is computed for AI. In GPL/ICR/Nascar AI just compute the position of the car, and AI can move the car like it want.That mean that AI can do impossible thing with the car. Like passing me at outisde hairpin and faster than me :o( ( ICR2 - Long Beach ). Or recover car when everybody would losed it ( GPL - Crash at last monza corner ). But, that mean computed dynamics for 25 cars ! sic ! will need a P9 1Ghz. I don't know if dynamcis is computed in GP2, but it seems that it is. -- ==================================== Sebastien Tixier - Game Developer

> GP2 ! has better AI. No "lp" files. Just AI cars that wreck in the exactly same corner in the exact same way and make no mistakes anywhere else, and push each other out in the same place lap after lap. -- Toni Lassila

> > GP2 ! has better AI. No "lp" files. > Just AI cars that wreck in the exactly same corner in the exact same way > and make no mistakes anywhere else, and push each other out in the same > place lap after lap. I never seen that. But i beleive you. Maybe the strategy of AI are betters in GPL but i think AI are better driver in GP2. I mean , in GP2 , AI drive a car and are not simulated like in GPL. -- ==================================== Sebastien Tixier - Game Developer

Don't know how this will go over, but if memory serves the AI in F1RS was pretty decent, other than being ridiculously easy to beat. The nice part was they didn't tangle with you whenever they got within 20 feet. As much as I love GPL, it does get frustrating getting rammed from behind on the first lap of every race until you figure out exactly how the AI is going to drive that first lap and position yourself accordingly. Having AI cars that glue themselves to your gearbox and refuse to brake when you do is a pretty bad oversight IMO. Zog

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> If, by a "step backwards", you mean behaviour generally closer to reality > than any other sim to date, then, yes, it's a "step backwards". > > No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step > backwards, a > > large part of the reason I quit the game. > > >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it > seems > > >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), > but > > >because you have more invested in the racing experience. > > >Marc. > > >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a > GP > > >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running > in > > >5th > > >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping > him. > > >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been > able > > >> to continue. > > >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I > was > > >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply > that > > >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating > > >themselves > > >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be > > >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. > After > > >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full > > >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I > have > > >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a > penny > > >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. > > >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. > > >> Mark > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

> > GP2 ! has better AI. No "lp" files. > Just AI cars that wreck in the exactly same corner in the exact same way > and make no mistakes anywhere else, and push each other out in the same > place lap after lap. Sounds as though you were using opposition spread set at 1994 levels, instead of random. Much nicer to run with the AI with the random settings anyway, that way the same cars aren't always at the front. -- Chuck Kandler #70 K&S Racing http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195 The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!

A step backwards from what? Please elaborate. Marc. > No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step backwards, a > large part of the reason I quit the game. > >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems > >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but

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> >because you have more invested in the racing experience. > >Marc. > >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a

GP > >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in > >5th > >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him. > >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able > >> to continue. > >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was > >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that > >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating > >themselves > >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be > >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After > >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full > >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have > >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny > >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. > >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. > >> Mark

Actually I'm not too happy about the AI in GP2. They are too goddamn easy to pass! In GP2, you can be a whole carlength behind them and yet still pass them under braking because of the timid way they act. A real driver might stick to the racing line, but a GP2 AI driver will hurl themselves off the road rather than risk contact with you going into a corner. The benefit from a "tow" is way too much as well. Is there an editor to cut this back a bit? The reality is that if you're just 0.1 second a lap quicker than a GP2 AI car, then you are guaranteed to be able to get past him within a lap or so. just a rant for the day.

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>>GP2 ! has better AI. No "lp" files. >Actually I'm not too happy about the AI in GP2. >They are too goddamn easy to pass! In GP2, you can be a whole >carlength behind them and yet still pass them under braking >because of the timid way they act. A real driver might stick >to the racing line, but a GP2 AI driver will hurl themselves >off the road rather than risk contact with you going into a >corner.

<snip> I think that the AI in both GPL and GP2 are pretty similar. The only reason you can pass this easy in GP2 is because the car you are driving is so much more stable under braking so you can be confident about doing so into the corner. With GPL you can still get alongside just as easily - they won't defend the corner - but it is so much more difficult to brake well in a GPL car. So it is not the AI that has improved, it is just that the player's braking technique has become the problem. I once watched an AI race on GPL at Rouen, after crashing out, and the Ferrari driver continually tried to go offline to pass the car in front at the same corner every lap, even though it was way too far back to do so. A corner that a human driver would not even think of passing I might add. As a result it would lose about half a second which it would then proceed to claw back during the rest of the lap, only for the same thing to happen on the next lap, ad infinitum. Not good. I think that there are 2 main differences between human and AI drivers which, if implemented, would make them seem more realistic:- 1 - to give the AI a better "knowldege" of the track they are racing on, ie. where the best places to overtake/defend are, and so they would then be more prepared to stay behind the car ahead at the corners that were more likely not to yield an opportunity as well as defend those self same corners from the car behind. This info would need to be included with the track data. 2 - to give them a kind of "memory" so that they might actually vary what they do from one lap to the next, with regard to overtaking based upon what they tried on the previous lap(s). Then, if you add this "memory" to what they already know from (1) then eventually they would "learn" where the most appropriate overtaking place(s) is/are and where to defend the corner the most. The second option may be quite difficult/sophisticated to do. However the first option should be simple enough. I think that with AI it is quite difficult, when setting out on a project, to know what data will be useful/required for good AI and what isn't. I would imagine that the AI system is not worked on until well into any project and by then you have to work with the data you've got. Anyway, I've said enough, though this is one subject that really fascinates me <BG>. Given the opportunity, this is definitely the area that I would enjoy working on the most. -- Peter Ives

I agree with Todd. I often watched AI races in GP2 and it looks very real all the time. I've tried to watch AI races in GPL... It just doesn't look real at all and they dont drive the same line as any normal sim racer do. IMO, GPL AI looks much more artificial than GP2 AI. Last year I restricted my GP2 setup, so I had the same top speed, acceleration and braking distance as GP2 top AI. The races I drove reminded a lot about real races and doing so all the time. At Magny only overtaking place was before the hairpin and it was hard to get a tow out of the fast right hander before the hairpin. At Hockenheim it was slip streaming mayhem :o))). Here the AI wouldn't always slip stream at the smartest place though :o). /Christer, would have to be an unusually big fan of 60s racing to enjoy the AI in GPL, and I'm not ;o)

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> No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step backwards, a > large part of the reason I quit the game. > >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems > >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but > >because you have more invested in the racing experience. > >Marc. > >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a GP > >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in > >5th > >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him. > >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able > >> to continue. > >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was > >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that > >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating > >themselves > >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be > >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After > >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full > >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have > >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny > >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. > >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. > >> Mark

-- http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

See earlier post...

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>A step backwards from what? Please elaborate. >Marc. >> No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step >backwards, a >> large part of the reason I quit the game. >> >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it >seems >> >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), >but >> >because you have more invested in the racing experience. >> >Marc. >> >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a >GP >> >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running >in >> >5th >> >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping >him. >> >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been >able >> >> to continue. >> >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I >was >> >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply >that >> >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating >> >themselves >> >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be >> >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. >After >> >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full >> >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I >have >> >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a >penny >> >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. >> >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. >> >> Mark

Hey, Christer! Haven't heard from you in a long time. How have you been?

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>I agree with Todd. I often watched AI races in GP2 and it looks very real all > the >time. I've tried to watch AI races in GPL... It just doesn't look real at all > and >they dont drive the same line as any normal sim racer do. IMO, GPL AI looks > much >more artificial than GP2 AI. >Last year I restricted my GP2 setup, so I had the same top speed, acceleration >and braking distance as GP2 top AI. The races I drove reminded a lot about real >races and doing so all the time. At Magny only overtaking place was before the >hairpin and it was hard to get a tow out of the fast right hander before the >hairpin. At Hockenheim it was slip streaming mayhem :o))). Here the AI wouldn't >always slip stream at the smartest place though :o). >/Christer, would have to be an unusually big fan of 60s racing to enjoy the AI > in >GPL, and I'm not ;o) >> No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step backwards, a >> large part of the reason I quit the game. >> >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems >> >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but >> >because you have more invested in the racing experience. >> >Marc. >> >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a GP >> >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in >> >5th >> >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him. >> >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able >> >> to continue. >> >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was >> >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that >> >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating >> >themselves >> >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be >> >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After >> >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full >> >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have >> >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny >> >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. >> >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. >> >> Mark

GP2, F1RS, MGPRS2 all have better AI. Nobody has perfect AI though. GPL was weak though fast when they should have been slow, slow when they should have been fast, and of course the "Surtees bug" where no matter where you are on the track if Surtees is behind you he's going to run it straight up your rear end.

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>What? And which racing game has a better AI then? Even though the AI >makes mistakes now and then, I love racing against the AI. And if you >don't like racing the AI, you can allways race online? >Andre >>No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step backwards, a >>large part of the reason I quit the game. >>>Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems >>>worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but >>>because you have more invested in the racing experience. >>>Marc. >>>> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of a GP >>>> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in >>>5th >>>> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him. >>>> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able >>>> to continue. >>>> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was >>>> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that >>>> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating >>>themselves >>>> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be >>>> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After >>>> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full >>>> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have >>>> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny >>>> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. >>>> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. >>>> Mark

Hmm.. it's funny when we all talk about Surtees, it only happens once a dozen race for us.. like in real-life. I've raced hundreds of laps with him near me because I also run an Honda all the time and Im always near him in laptime with the AI specs I have. You should check out his statistics. He was the Paul Tracy of the 60's. But please do not say that F1RS and MGPRS2 have better AI than in GPL. Both Ubisoft titles have acceptable AI, but nowhere as near as GP2 and GPL in quality. I quite like the AI in Viper Racing even if I think they are pretty dumb and can't race a racecar correctly, but geeze you ever seen the blue flag bug in Ubisoft title ? -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Hi Todd, I'm okay, I'm saving to buy an Audi S8 or similar :o). I also drive in a couple of F2 and F3 online leagues. Actually Eric Cote's F2 and F3 league and Mark Seery's F3 league. I think I've won Mark's F3 league with one race to go :o). I'm leading Eric's F3 league, but we only have one race done so far in that one. And what are you up to these days? You dont work too much I hope... /Chrille >Hey, Christer! Haven't heard from you in a long time. How have you been? >>I agree with Todd. I often watched AI races in GP2 and it looks very real all >> the >>time. I've tried to watch AI races in GPL... It just doesn't look real at all >> and >>they dont drive the same line as any normal sim racer do. IMO, GPL AI looks >> much >>more artificial than GP2 AI. >>Last year I restricted my GP2 setup, so I had the same top speed, acceleration >>and braking distance as GP2 top AI. The races I drove reminded a lot about real >>races and doing so all the time. At Magny only overtaking place was before the >>hairpin and it was hard to get a tow out of the fast right hander before the >>hairpin. At Hockenheim it was slip streaming mayhem :o))). Here the AI wouldn't >>always slip stream at the smartest place though :o). >>/Christer, would have to be an unusually big fan of 60s racing to enjoy the AI

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>> in >>GPL, and I'm not ;o) >>> No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step

backwards, a >>> large part of the reason I quit the game. >>> >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it seems >>> >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally better), but

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>>> >because you have more invested in the racing experience. >>> >Marc. >>> >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of

a GP >>> >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running in >>> >5th >>> >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping him. >>> >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been able >>> >> to continue. >>> >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I was >>> >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply that >>> >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating >>> >themselves >>> >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to be >>> >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. After >>> >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's full >>> >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I have >>> >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a penny >>> >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. >>> >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in mind. >>> >> Mark

Actually, I've been working far too much. But that's life :( An Audi S8 eh? Must be a nice car. I hope you get it soon. Don't get to race sims near as often as I would like but it goes with the territory.

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>Hi Todd, I'm okay, I'm saving to buy an Audi S8 or similar :o). I also drive >in a couple of F2 and F3 online leagues. Actually Eric Cote's F2 and F3 >league and Mark Seery's F3 league. I think I've won Mark's F3 league with >one race to go :o). I'm leading Eric's F3 league, but we only have one race >done so far in that one. >And what are you up to these days? You dont work too much I hope... >/Chrille >>Hey, Christer! Haven't heard from you in a long time. How have you been? >>>I agree with Todd. I often watched AI races in GP2 and it looks very real >all >>> the >>>time. I've tried to watch AI races in GPL... It just doesn't look real at >all >>> and >>>they dont drive the same line as any normal sim racer do. IMO, GPL AI >looks >>> much >>>more artificial than GP2 AI. >>>Last year I restricted my GP2 setup, so I had the same top speed, >acceleration >>>and braking distance as GP2 top AI. The races I drove reminded a lot about >real >>>races and doing so all the time. At Magny only overtaking place was before >the >>>hairpin and it was hard to get a tow out of the fast right hander before >the >>>hairpin. At Hockenheim it was slip streaming mayhem :o))). Here the AI >wouldn't >>>always slip stream at the smartest place though :o). >>>/Christer, would have to be an unusually big fan of 60s racing to enjoy >the AI >>> in >>>GPL, and I'm not ;o) >>>> No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step >backwards, a >>>> large part of the reason I quit the game. >>>> >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it >seems >>>> >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally >better), but >>>> >because you have more invested in the racing experience. >>>> >Marc. >>>> >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68 of >a GP >>>> >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running >in >>>> >5th >>>> >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping >him. >>>> >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been >able >>>> >> to continue. >>>> >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I >was >>>> >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply >that >>>> >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating >>>> >themselves >>>> >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to >be >>>> >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. >After >>>> >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's >full >>>> >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I >have >>>> >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had a >penny >>>> >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. >>>> >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in >mind. >>>> >> Mark

Hoping to get it before 2005 :o). It's the four wheel drive, buttons on the steering wheel for gear changing (6 gears) and the 300+ bhp that makes me want it, so if I just win the "lottery" before 2005... :o) /Chrille >Actually, I've been working far too much. But that's life :( An Audi S8 eh? >Must be a nice car. I hope you get it soon. Don't get to race sims near as >often as I would like but it goes with the territory. >>Hi Todd, I'm okay, I'm saving to buy an Audi S8 or similar :o). I also drive >>in a couple of F2 and F3 online leagues. Actually Eric Cote's F2 and F3 >>league and Mark Seery's F3 league. I think I've won Mark's F3 league with >>one race to go :o). I'm leading Eric's F3 league, but we only have one race

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>>done so far in that one. >>And what are you up to these days? You dont work too much I hope... >>/Chrille >>>Hey, Christer! Haven't heard from you in a long time. How have you

been? >>>>I agree with Todd. I often watched AI races in GP2 and it looks very real >>all >>>> the >>>>time. I've tried to watch AI races in GPL... It just doesn't look real at

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>>all >>>> and >>>>they dont drive the same line as any normal sim racer do. IMO, GPL AI >>looks >>>> much >>>>more artificial than GP2 AI. >>>>Last year I restricted my GP2 setup, so I had the same top speed, >>acceleration >>>>and braking distance as GP2 top AI. The races I drove reminded a lot

about >>real >>>>races and doing so all the time. At Magny only overtaking place was before

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>>the >>>>hairpin and it was hard to get a tow out of the fast right hander before >>the >>>>hairpin. At Hockenheim it was slip streaming mayhem :o))). Here the AI >>wouldn't >>>>always slip stream at the smartest place though :o). >>>>/Christer, would have to be an unusually big fan of 60s racing to enjoy >>the AI >>>> in >>>>GPL, and I'm not ;o) >>>>> No it doesn't seem worse, it is worse. The AI in GPL are a step >>backwards, a >>>>> large part of the reason I quit the game.

Collins"

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>>>>> >Agreed that this is a very frustrating experience. Unfortunately it >>seems >>>>> >worse with GPL not because the AI are worse (they are generally >>better), but >>>>> >because you have more invested in the racing experience. >>>>> >Marc. >>>>> >> OK guys just a rant here to vent some frustration. I was on lap 68

of >>a GP >>>>> >> at Zandvoort last night and doing pretty well by my standards running >>in >>>>> >5th >>>>> >> place. Unfortunately I got tangled up with another car whilst lapping >>him. >>>>> >> It was a pretty minor "contretemps" and I should have ordinarily been >>able >>>>> >> to continue. >>>>> >> The trouble was that our wheels were tangled up and try as I might, I >>was >>>>> >> unable to do anything to free myself. The reason for this was simply

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>>that >>>>> >> the AI seem to have no intelligence when it comes to extricating >>>>> >themselves >>>>> >> from such situations. Instead of using a reverse gear, they seem to >>be >>>>> >> blindly intent on continuing as though the other car is not there. >>After >>>>> >> spending about 30 seconds trying to clear the other car with it's >>full >>>>> >> throttle ram raid mentality I gave up.This is an observation that I >>have >>>>> >> made with every sim that I have raced over the years. I wish I had

a

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>>penny >>>>> >> for every time an AI car has tried to simply drive through me. >>>>> >> Just an observation that developers of future sims might bear in >>mind. >>>>> >> Mark