The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

Mmm, yes. I rather liked all that :o) Thanks, Bob. I'm going to get N3 and enjoy it... > I've noticed a phenomenon on R.A.S...etc. etc... > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, > baggy skin" -- Rob Swindells 3rd equal in Goldline Bearings FFord Championship (29 Points); ONE point behind Championship Leader (as of round 5 of 6) "If you're a great driver, you will get through. It's not harder than any time before." ~Martin Brundle "Winning, that you can't know, 'fighting' ...that I know..." ~Jacques Villeneuve pre'96

Bob Curtain made some valid points {a bit too 4 letter'ish} but {yes there is a but} is this the beginning of "FACT or OPINION Infomercial 101"?? Just curious.. "O" I prefer "Subjective Opinion" not that it'll get you a free cup of "Jo" anywhere. Anyway Keep Smilin' Folks It Won't Hurt Ya.;0) Cheers Thom_j.

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> Mmm, yes. I rather liked all that :o) Thanks, Bob. I'm going to get N3 and > enjoy it... > > I've noticed a phenomenon on R.A.S...etc. etc... > > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, > > baggy skin" > -- > Rob Swindells > 3rd equal in Goldline Bearings FFord Championship (29 Points); > ONE point behind Championship Leader (as of round 5 of 6) > "If you're a great driver, you will get through. It's not harder than any > time before." ~Martin Brundle > "Winning, that you can't know, 'fighting' ...that I know..." ~Jacques > Villeneuve pre'96

Well said, Bob. I just said myself recently that r.a.s. is one of the only places in the world that N3 could get a beating for not being realistic enough. jeff

Hey Bob, Interesting posting. But the truth is.. if you bought NASCAR 3 and NO ONE ELSE bought it. You would be able to play it online and we would not. That is not fair of Papyrus!!! It is an upgrade... (Upgrade: defined as having the same original code base) and yet they expect the consumer to pay 50 dollars for it. Is it worth it at that price?! HELL NO! But you bought it.. why? because you don't have a choice like the rest of us. Papyrus chose to keep the same engine.. .why? Probably because Sierra is falling apart at the seams (when's the last time any has seen a new Leisure Suit Larry Game? or King's Quest game?). Papy created a product that is clearly an upgrade.. not a new product, just an upgrade of their previous product. Then.. they make it so that if I refuse to buy Nascar 3... and my friend does buy Nascar 3... can you play Nascar 99 against Nascar 3 online?!?! NO!!!! That is BS! You try to make valid points that the consumer has a choice... well.. hate to tell ya but. The consumer does NOT have a choice, they are given ultimatims.. not choices. What would happen if you have Windows 95.. and Windows 98 comes out and suddenly you are forced to buy Windows 98 because nothing works with Windows 95 anymore? That's what happened with Nascar 99 & 3.. suddenly everyone has to redo their tracks, cars, setups, etc... Papyrus didn't HAVE to do this.. they CHOSE to make it this way to FORCE SALES UPON THE CONSUMER!!! Bob, I'm not cutting you down, by I work in the software development industry and that's the way the cookie crumbles. Papyrus cheated alot of consumers for the all mighty buck. Quit defending Papyrus... ever since they started with Sierra, they have been manipulated into making inferior products. I'm sure they have the talent to create products better than they have. Do I have to mention how much SODA Off Road Racing sucks?! Considering Papyrus has only ONE GAME they work on.. NASCAR, you would think they would be having alot better products than they are offering. That B.S. about Papyrus creating NASCAR 2000 with the GPL engine, and then stating that computers couldn't handle it?! THAT'S B.S.!!!!!! If computers of today couldn't handle it.. how in the hell did they make it?? Does Papyrus only use Kryotech 1 GHz computers with 2GB of 1ns RAM?!?! Why in the hell would they spend time and money creating a product... and then put our an anouncement saying it's better than the computers can handle. Gee... "we are such GREAT programmers that we created something that won't run fast enough on your computer"... TRANSLATION: "We suck soooo bad that we can't write code good enough to run on anything, so rather than figuring out how to write better code, we'll just wait a year for a better computer" I bought NASCAR 3, only because my friend was going to buy it... I didn't really want to, but I HAD NO CHOICE if I want to continue racing Nascar against him. It is possible to allow Nascar 3 owners to race against Nascar 99 owners, Papyrus just didn't want to work 'too hard'. ARGH!! I hate defenders of computer games!!

[snip] Oh, you so TOTALLY lost me right there, and also shot your credibility right in the ass to boot. Until Viper and GPL came out, SODA was the most realistic PC vehicle simulator out. It did most of the things GPL did 2 years before, when a high spec box was a Pentium 200, and the average was a 133. If you're saying it sucked because it was too hard for you (not uncommon, just like GPL) that's one thing, but it definitely didn't suck. You might have also forgot that it was sort of a sub-contracted game. Software Allies made it, Papyrus labeled it, and Sierra published it. It wasn't an in-house Papyrus product. The worst thing about SODA was the poor 3D support. Rendition only, at a time when the Voodoo 1 was the hottest thing going. A 3Dfx patch was promised, but Sierra ix-nayed it before completion. I hated them for it. I would jump at another Papyrus off-road sim. This rationale is so wacky, I hardly know where to begin. First and foremost, they have to design for the typical machine in the home. You think thats the P3-500 with 256 meg of RAM and latest 3D card which they're using for development? No, it's probably a P2/266 with some bullshit original 4 meg Riva card, or a $1000 K6/2 300 from Best Buy with God-knows-what kind of video built onto a half-ass motherboard. They COULD make N3 with the GPL engine work on their development boxes. They're pro's, and a pro anything, from a landscaper, to a mechanic, to a programmer uses the BEST equipment they can get for their field. N3 with the GPL engine would probably work pretty damn well on most of the PC's of the people reading this newsgroup (at least if they were willing to settle for 25 cars instead of 43, which would be fine with me). That's not the target they had to hit though. You say you're in the software industry, but you don't grasp that? Are you a cashier at EB? Tim

Bob, Newsgroups are newsgroups! I read 2% of it and ignore the rest because I know it's not worth my time. Maybe Papyrus needs to adopt a different marketing strategy. Rather than getting complaints from the masses that the "game" is too difficult, they should direct market the real sims off the web. If they charged $150US for GPL, I still would have thought I got a deal. Avoid all of Sierra's mass marketing connections, and their slice of the profits, and maybe there is money in high end racing simulations. I think X-plane goes for about that, and they seem to be staying around. We've got a bunch of fairly serious sim racers, most who have spent $200 to $2000 on a controller, probably another grand on computer upgrades, and the software that makes this all worth it is $40US? That doesn't seem right to me. I think all companies that go the hard route of following their passion, rather than the dollars, struggle financially from time to time. Certainly Ferrari has, and Lotus and Apple, and the thousands of other small business that do it, at least in good measure, because they love it. They will likely never rule the world like GM or Microsoft, but that was never their goal. Kevin Wishing I had the courage to follow mine...

When one has experienced the realism of a one year-old Papyrus product and the realism of a brand-new product is of a lower order then one is bound for disappointment. It would be interesting to have seen how many people would have bought N3 if Papyrus had made a demo available a month ago. BK -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

I've been saying the same sort of thing for a long time. Unfortunately I don't see this coming from Papyrus or any other outfit owned by the large publishers where the bottom line is all important. Taking your Ferrari example, would they have ever been able to build up their mystique if they had been owned by Fiat back in the fifties? What I think is more likely is if a company can start out with the intention of serving the "***" community. Using the sports car company analogy, maybe a Caterham? Cheers, Richard

writes: I don't agree. There are THOUSANDS of people still running DOS 3.3 or so, and getting along just fine. Nobody FORCES you to upgrade if you don't want to. I've decided to hold off on buying N3, at least until the price comes down. So your friend has N3. Guess what? The world won't end if you don't buy it! Ask him to still race you on N99. Or don't - your CHOICE. If you REALLY have so little control of your life that you HAVE to buy N3, then you have more problems than the fact it doesn't suit your 'wants'... Eldred __ Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting? remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Hey, Bob just read your interesting post, but there are several points that I disagree with to warrant a reply. So... What's wrong with being disappointed. "You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." Heard that before. I'm sure that there have been times in your life when something has disappointed you and I doubt whether being expected to "put up or shut up" in such situations would have gone down too well. You say that all these people are doing is posting these "N3 really sucks" posts? From what I've read, most disappointed people who have posted here have gone on to explain why they're disappointed. I mean is it ok to have "N3 is really great" posts. You also said that if these people had taken the trouble to find out more about the product then they wouldn't have put themselves in this position. Well, I've got news for you, not everyone has the time, drive, foresight, whatever to find out about a game in advance of it coming out. And besides, where did you get all this insight, the only place I read anything about the up and coming N3 was through this ng. What am I supposed to do? Trawl through the nets every last orifice until I come across something pertinent. Indeed it was clear that there was no GPL physics, although it was mentioned that the physics engine was being improved upon. However, this doesn't seem to be the case and it just proves that information about what is in a game prior to its release is generally just speculation and it is not until the game comes out that people can see for themselves what it is really like. It doesn't matter how much is written about a game prior to its release - all those it's gonna have this and gonna do that count for nought - it will never tell the whole story. The only way to get decent feedback on what a game is really like is to hear from people that have actually played it and that is why, since N3 has come out and we have a more informed and broader view of the game, that I am only now quite aware of what I will be getting when it finally goes on release here in the UK, and despite the negative aspects of N3, there are enough positives in there to make me want this game. One more thing. Why wasn't a demo put out for this game? Surely this would have given all of us the opportunity to find out for ourselves whether the game was a significant improvement of the previous versions and would certainly have given more opportunity for those "whiners" to find out for themselves instead of having to wait to purchase the game. Just an opinion, of course. ;-) -- Peter Ives

I would have still bought it. -larry > When one has experienced the realism of a one year-old Papyrus product and > the realism of a brand-new product is of a lower order then one is bound for > disappointment. > It would be interesting to have seen how many people would have bought N3 if

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> Papyrus had made a demo available a month ago. > BK > > Well said, Bob. > > I just said myself recently that r.a.s. is one of the only places in the > > world that N3 could get a beating for not being realistic enough. > > jeff > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News

==---------- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Me! Me! Me too! Zog

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> I would have still bought it. > -larry > > When one has experienced the realism of a one year-old Papyrus product and > > the realism of a brand-new product is of a lower order then one is bound > for > > disappointment. > > It would be interesting to have seen how many people would have bought N3 > if > > Papyrus had made a demo available a month ago. > > BK > > > Well said, Bob. > > > I just said myself recently that r.a.s. is one of the only places in the > > > world that N3 could get a beating for not being realistic enough. > > > jeff > > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News > ==---------- > > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers > ==-----

Fair enough...but I wonder how many _wouldn't_ have bought it? (Just a rhetorical question).

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> Me! Me! Me too! > Zog > > I would have still bought it. > > -larry > > > When one has experienced the realism of a one year-old Papyrus product

and > > > the realism of a brand-new product is of a lower order then one is bound > > for > > > disappointment. > > > It would be interesting to have seen how many people would have bought N3

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> > if > > > Papyrus had made a demo available a month ago. > > > BK > > > > Well said, Bob. > > > > I just said myself recently that r.a.s. is one of the only places in

the

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> > > > world that N3 could get a beating for not being realistic enough. > > > > jeff > > > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News > > ==---------- > > > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the

World! > > > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers > > ==----- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

People like you are what bothers me!! "I for one would be happy to pay $200.00..." blah blah blah. Don't you ever read what you post?! Sure... pay 200.00 dollars for a great sim, you'll be the ONLY person playing it because I am not going to spend 200 dollars on a piece of software that simply wastes my time. I guess I have my head where the sun doesn't shine because I spend alot of money on my computer simply to enjoy that 50.00 dollar game a bit more. But I'll NEVER spend that much money on the game. Gee, let's spend 200.00 dollars on a great sim, oh gee, I can't afford to buy that steering wheel or that great sound card so I guess I'll just play that 200.00 dollar game using my keyboard to steer and not have any sound. And remember the next time you 'complain' about the 'complainers'. If people didn't speak out about what they didn't like, we would never see a product become what it is today. I used to *** and complain that I wanted smoke in NASCAR 99... I wanted it to look like the scene from "Days Of Thunder". Someone eventually heard my cries and implemented it in. I will continue to *** and moan about it... you will NEVER find a great sim... only a better one!!! <SNIP>

Doug kirjoitti viestiss? ... No, no, no no no.....GPL IS great! ;) ....Just like F1GP, GP2 and revs+ were when they came. It's just question of "which one lasts longer"...I think GP2 is holding the all time record and GPL is the champ of 1998-1999....well that's how I see it ;) PS. I like Nascar racing too, but it's so.....slo-mo and "easy"...it's not the beast I want :P

> People like you are what bothers me!! "I for one would be happy to pay > $200.00..." blah blah blah. > Don't you ever read what you post?! <snipped a bunch of drivel> If everyone followed your philosphy then we sure woudlnt see any quality equipment on the market would we? Why do you find it so difficult to part with your (I'm sure hard earned money) for a quality sim when you would gladly pay a large amount for the latest video card or whatever? Obviously you dont think that the people who bring us a quality sim that gives us thousands of hours of entertainment dont deserve to amply rewarded for thier efforts? Fortunately for the makers of such quality simulators as X Plane, there are a few of us who consider $200.00 for a great piece of software, a bargain.

I'd pay $1000 but it had better be the mother of all racing sims. If you think about it as entertainment value (cost/hours played) $50 is way too little to pay for quality. At the $50 price point sometimes you win big (GPL, F1GP, GP2) and sometimes you lose (CPR). But I think the thread is about too much pointless ***ing and whining in RAS. Which I agree is a problem. What's the point of 500 messages a day when only 2 or so are even worth reading? My time is far more valuable than that. Of course this seems to be the direction of the internet as a whole, the good information is still there but now you have to wade through several layers of ***to get it.

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> > People like you are what bothers me!! "I for one would be happy to pay > > $200.00..." blah blah blah. > > Don't you ever read what you post?! > <snipped a bunch of drivel> > If everyone followed your philosphy then we sure woudlnt see any quality > equipment on the market would we? Why do you find it so difficult to part

with > your (I'm sure hard earned money) for a quality sim when you would gladly pay a > large amount for the latest video card or whatever? > Obviously you dont think that the people who bring us a quality sim that gives > us thousands of hours of entertainment dont deserve to amply rewarded for thier > efforts? > Fortunately for the makers of such quality simulators as X Plane, there are a > few of us who consider $200.00 for a great piece of software, a bargain.

1,000.00?!?!?! Are you nuts?!?!? Yes.. it WOULD be the mother of all sims. It would be an actual YUGO!!!! You're nutty Todd. I don't even pay that much for my computer when I upgrade it. Basically, what you are saying is that you want something to match reality. Well... I hate to tell you but this will never happen.. at least not in our lifetime. For the price you would probably pay to have the ultimate sim.. you could buy yourself weeks worth of racing at Skip Barber Racing School!!! It just ain't gonna happen.

Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right? At $50 for a good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider price vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other entertainment available to us. Don't tell them though ;-) Yes, I am nutty. Certifiable even, but that's off topic. And yes, I want something to match reality because I really, really, wish, like many of us here I suppose, that I were a <insert favorite racing series> driver. But I wasn't born into the right family, I'm too old, too nutty, physically too large (more like a linebacker), and not wealthy. However, none of that changes the fact that I wish I were a racing driver, so I race sims and I want my sim to be as realistic as it possibly can be.

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> 1,000.00?!?!?! Are you nuts?!?!? > Yes.. it WOULD be the mother of all sims. It would be an actual YUGO!!!! > You're nutty Todd. I don't even pay that much for my computer when I > upgrade it. Basically, what you are saying is that you want something to > match reality. Well... I hate to tell you but this will never happen.. at > least not in our lifetime. For the price you would probably pay to have

the

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> ultimate sim.. you could buy yourself weeks worth of racing at Skip Barber > Racing School!!! It just ain't gonna happen. > > I'd pay $1000 but it had better be the mother of all racing sims. If

you > > think about it as entertainment value (cost/hours played) $50 is way too > > little to pay for quality. At the $50 price point sometimes you win big > > (GPL, F1GP, GP2) and sometimes you lose (CPR). > > But I think the thread is about too much pointless ***ing and whining in > > RAS. Which I agree is a problem. What's the point of 500 messages a day

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> > when only 2 or so are even worth reading? My time is far more valuable > than > > that. Of course this seems to be the direction of the internet as a > whole, > > the good information is still there but now you have to wade through > several > > layers of ***to get it.

If it's a good sim (meaning, it's great, little to no bugs, etc.), another way to look at it is, sell the sim cheaper. Lower price usually sells more product. GP2 was/is a very stable and good racing sim, and he never had to patch it. It's sold -so- many copies, Crammond doesn't have to make GP3..<g>. When released, GP2 could have sold for much less, and would have still made lots of money. I guess it all depends if the game/sim is very well made, or, umm, (what's the word I'm looking for.., ohhh), sucks..<g>. Matt -Teehole

Get a grip on reality, man, before it's too late!!! -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

"ripping the publisher off"????!!!! Yeah...._THAT_ will be the day!! :o) > Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right? At $50 for a

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> good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider price > vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other > entertainment available to us. Don't tell them though ;-) > Yes, I am nutty. Certifiable even, but that's off topic. And yes, I want > something to match reality because I really, really, wish, like many of us > here I suppose, that I were a <insert favorite racing series> driver. But

I

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> wasn't born into the right family, I'm too old, too nutty, physically too > large (more like a linebacker), and not wealthy. However, none of that > changes the fact that I wish I were a racing driver, so I race sims and I > want my sim to be as realistic as it possibly can be. > > 1,000.00?!?!?! Are you nuts?!?!? > > Yes.. it WOULD be the mother of all sims. It would be an actual YUGO!!!! > > You're nutty Todd. I don't even pay that much for my computer when I > > upgrade it. Basically, what you are saying is that you want something

to > > match reality. Well... I hate to tell you but this will never happen.. at > > least not in our lifetime. For the price you would probably pay to have > the > > ultimate sim.. you could buy yourself weeks worth of racing at Skip Barber

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> > Racing School!!! It just ain't gonna happen. > > > I'd pay $1000 but it had better be the mother of all racing sims. If > you > > > think about it as entertainment value (cost/hours played) $50 is way

too > > > little to pay for quality. At the $50 price point sometimes you win big > > > (GPL, F1GP, GP2) and sometimes you lose (CPR). > > > But I think the thread is about too much pointless ***ing and whining > in > > > RAS. Which I agree is a problem. What's the point of 500 messages a > day > > > when only 2 or so are even worth reading? My time is far more valuable > > than > > > that. Of course this seems to be the direction of the internet as a > > whole, > > > the good information is still there but now you have to wade through > > several > > > layers of ***to get it. -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Since they are the ones that set the price, by definition I don't think we can be ripping them off <g>. But as long as the $50 price range is in effect, sims have to be pitched such that they will have mass appeal - and depending on your views that is either a very good thing or a very bad one ;-) Cheers, Richard

> >Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right? At $50 for a

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> >good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider price > >vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other > >entertainment available to us. Don't tell them though ;-) > Since they are the ones that set the price, by definition I don't think we > can be ripping them off <g>. But as long as the $50 price range is in > effect, sims have to be pitched such that they will have mass appeal - and > depending on your views that is either a very good thing or a very bad one > ;-)

A bad thing in my view. The price point limits you to mass appeal which generally equates to mediocrity.

> >Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right? At $50 for a

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> >good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider price > >vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other > >entertainment available to us. Don't tell them though ;-) > If it's a good sim (meaning, it's great, little to no bugs, etc.), > another way to look at it is, sell the sim cheaper. Lower price > usually sells more product.

Lower price does sell more product, true. But at what point does the infrastructure cost to support the volume of sales at lower margins become so overwhelming that profitability is gone? Let's say you're a small businessman and your business sells $100,000 in widgets monthly, you hold a 20% gross margin which nets you $5,000 monthly. Let's say if you cut your margin down to 10% you could double your sales. Would you do that? I sincerely hope not. But that school of thought seems to be prevalent in today's world.

G'day. My name is Art Vanderlay and you won't believe this but I just happen to be a small businessman and my business sells $100,000 in widgets monthly. I hold a 20% gross margin which nets me $5,000 monthly and I'm gonna cut my margin down to 10%. Why would I do that? So that I can triple....yes, TRIPLE, my sales. BK > > >Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right? At $50 for > a > > >good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider price

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> > >vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other > > >entertainment available to us. Don't tell them though ;-) > > If it's a good sim (meaning, it's great, little to no bugs, etc.), > > another way to look at it is, sell the sim cheaper. Lower price > > usually sells more product. > Lower price does sell more product, true. But at what point does the > infrastructure cost to support the volume of sales at lower margins become > so overwhelming that profitability is gone? > Let's say you're a small businessman and your business sells $100,000 in > widgets monthly, you hold a 20% gross margin which nets you $5,000

monthly. > Let's say if you cut your margin down to 10% you could double your sales. > Would you do that? I sincerely hope not. But that school of thought seems > to be prevalent in today's world. -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Wow! So you go through life basically believing that, of two similar products, the one with the higher price is the better? You, Todd, are the stuff of advertisers dreams! BK wrote > > >Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right? At $50 for > a > > >good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider price > > >vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other > > >entertainment available to us. Don't tell them though ;-) > > Since they are the ones that set the price, by definition I don't think we > > can be ripping them off <g>. But as long as the $50 price range is in > > effect, sims have to be pitched such that they will have mass appeal - and > > depending on your views that is either a very good thing or a very bad one > > ;-) > A bad thing in my view. The price point limits you to mass appeal which > generally equates to mediocrity. -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

You are an imposter. As everyone knows, Art Vandelay is an architect. >G'day. My name is Art Vanderlay and you won't believe this but I just happen >to be a small businessman and my business sells $100,000 in widgets monthly.

With you on all points Todd. Cheapest does not always mean the best buy, you have to do your homework. People who always buy the cheapest, regardless of other factors, are the real advertiser's dream. Zog

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> No, I go through life researching before I buy, looking for the greatest > "value" as defined in my small mind by price, reliability, track record, > servicability, and suitability to task. > Most people I come into contact with go through life believing that, of two > similar products, the one with the lowest price is the one to buy without > even considering the other, and then they wonder why their stuff is always > garbage. > > Wow! > > So you go through life basically believing that, of two similar products, > > the one with the higher price is the better? > > You, Todd, are the stuff of advertisers dreams! > > BK > > wrote > > > > >Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right? At $50 > > for > > > a > > > > >good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider > > price > > > > >vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other > > > > >entertainment available to us. Don't tell them though ;-) > > > > Since they are the ones that set the price, by definition I don't > think > > we > > > > can be ripping them off <g>. But as long as the $50 price range is in > > > > effect, sims have to be pitched such that they will have mass appeal - > > and > > > > depending on your views that is either a very good thing or a very bad > > one > > > > ;-) > > > A bad thing in my view. The price point limits you to mass appeal which > > > generally equates to mediocrity. > > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News > ==---------- > > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers > ==-----

No, I go through life researching before I buy, looking for the greatest "value" as defined in my small mind by price, reliability, track record, servicability, and suitability to task. Most people I come into contact with go through life believing that, of two similar products, the one with the lowest price is the one to buy without even considering the other, and then they wonder why their stuff is always garbage.

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> Wow! > So you go through life basically believing that, of two similar products, > the one with the higher price is the better? > You, Todd, are the stuff of advertisers dreams! > BK > wrote > > > >Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right? At $50 > for > > a > > > >good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider > price > > > >vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other > > > >entertainment available to us. Don't tell them though ;-) > > > Since they are the ones that set the price, by definition I don't

think

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> we > > > can be ripping them off <g>. But as long as the $50 price range is in > > > effect, sims have to be pitched such that they will have mass appeal - > and > > > depending on your views that is either a very good thing or a very bad > one > > > ;-) > > A bad thing in my view. The price point limits you to mass appeal which > > generally equates to mediocrity. > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News

==---------- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Congratulations Art! You've just doubled your support costs (labor,etc.)without doubling your gross profit, you lose. Within the limits of our little scenario the space between $100,000 and about $350,000 is a "no mans land" where about 99% of the people who make the decision you just made will end up. Not to mention the impact of the added stress on yourself. > G'day. My name is Art Vanderlay and you won't believe this but I just happen > to be a small businessman and my business sells $100,000 in widgets monthly. > I hold a 20% gross margin which nets me $5,000 monthly and I'm gonna cut my

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> margin down to 10%. > Why would I do that? > So that I can triple....yes, TRIPLE, my sales. > BK > > > >Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right? At $50 > for > > a > > > >good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider > price > > > >vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other > > > >entertainment available to us. Don't tell them though ;-) > > > If it's a good sim (meaning, it's great, little to no bugs, etc.), > > > another way to look at it is, sell the sim cheaper. Lower price > > > usually sells more product. > > Lower price does sell more product, true. But at what point does the > > infrastructure cost to support the volume of sales at lower margins

become > > so overwhelming that profitability is gone? > > Let's say you're a small businessman and your business sells $100,000 in > > widgets monthly, you hold a 20% gross margin which nets you $5,000 > monthly. > > Let's say if you cut your margin down to 10% you could double your sales. > > Would you do that? I sincerely hope not. But that school of thought > seems > > to be prevalent in today's world. > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

No he's not. He's actually in the***industry and these widgets just happen to be made out of latex, Mr. Smarty-pants! You're confusing me with my friend George, who is the architect.....when he's not practising marine biology.

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> You are an imposter. As everyone knows, Art Vandelay > is an architect. > >G'day. My name is Art Vanderlay and you won't believe this but I just > happen > >to be a small businessman and my business sells $100,000 in widgets > monthly.

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Takes away the spontaneity a bit, eh? How long does it take you do do the weekly shopping??!!! :o) -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Support costs? What...you mean that all my nieces, nephews, cousins, uncles and aunts that I have locked up in the shed....errr, "factory"......down the back-yard will cost me more? ***! > Congratulations Art! You've just doubled your support costs > (labor,etc.)without doubling your gross profit, you lose. Within the limits > of our little scenario the space between $100,000 and about $350,000 is a > "no mans land" where about 99% of the people who make the decision you just

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> made will end up. Not to mention the impact of the added stress on > yourself. > > G'day. My name is Art Vanderlay and you won't believe this but I just > happen > > to be a small businessman and my business sells $100,000 in widgets > monthly. > > I hold a 20% gross margin which nets me $5,000 monthly and I'm gonna cut > my > > margin down to 10%. > > Why would I do that? > > So that I can triple....yes, TRIPLE, my sales. > > BK > > > > >Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right? At

$50

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> > for > > > a > > > > >good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider > > price > > > > >vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other > > > > >entertainment available to us. Don't tell them though ;-) > > > > If it's a good sim (meaning, it's great, little to no bugs, etc.), > > > > another way to look at it is, sell the sim cheaper. Lower price > > > > usually sells more product. > > > Lower price does sell more product, true. But at what point does the > > > infrastructure cost to support the volume of sales at lower margins > become > > > so overwhelming that profitability is gone? > > > Let's say you're a small businessman and your business sells $100,000

in

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> > > widgets monthly, you hold a 20% gross margin which nets you $5,000 > > monthly. > > > Let's say if you cut your margin down to 10% you could double your > sales. > > > Would you do that? I sincerely hope not. But that school of thought > > seems > > > to be prevalent in today's world. > > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News > ==---------- > > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the

World! > > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers > ==----- -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Well, after reading dozens of reviews and deciding which is the best value, I usually go to the store and on impulse buy something completely different. Zog ;o)

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> Takes away the spontaneity a bit, eh? How long does it take you do do the > weekly shopping??!!! :o) > > No, I go through life researching before I buy, looking for the greatest > > "value" as defined in my small mind by price, reliability, track record, > > servicability, and suitability to task. > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

>You are an imposter. As everyone knows, Art Vandelay >is an architect. No I believe Art Vandelay was a painter. Hence his mother given him Art for his first name. His surname was his not his real name but one he acquired from a previous job as a courier van driver but he was fired because he was never on time. Van-delay -- Redline Race Controls http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/lakewood/Redline2.htm Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Hamilton New Zealand

And a judge :) (for us losers who actually watched the boring finale) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."