PAPYRUS IS NO MORE!!!!

Rumors inside Sierra is saying that Papyrus does not fit within Sierra's reorganization. Anyone know what the heck Sierra is up to? They sound like they are getting ready to file for bankruptcy or to dissolve themselves. Isn't sierra owned by the French?! Is there anyone out there who knows what the heck is going on???

It's called re-evaluation. They looked at 2 products and the staff associated and decided it was a no go. EVery time Sierra gets taken over games get canned. M

> Rumors inside Sierra is saying that Papyrus does not fit within Sierra's > reorganization. Anyone know what the heck Sierra is up to? They sound like > they are getting ready to file for bankruptcy or to dissolve themselves. > Isn't sierra owned by the French?! What we have to understand ? French used to dissolve company. ? Papyrus is owned by Sierra or Sierra is just there publisher ? I think that Sierra is owned by Havas Corp. ( Canal+,Bertlesman( german publishing) ). and Havas is owned by Vivendi. French corp. ( Lyonnaise des eaux, ... ). Well, if Sierra dump Payrus, maybe Papyrus could have a better publisher ( EA? ), because I LOVE PAPYRUS !!!! GPL rulezzzz BTW, from ECTS there is an AVI of Rally Racing Simulation. It's awesome ! Especially the 'effect' of projected shadow. It seems that Ubi Soft used a warp zone around the car to modified a meshe with only the shadow mapped on it. This meshes take the shape of the car, and it's rasterised after the car with transparency => effect of projected shadow on car ! We could see it because there was a sort error between the car and the shadow meshe in some frames of the AVI :o) ... sorry for my bad english ... i own Payrus but i can't speak good english ;o) -- ==================================== Sebastien Tixier - Game Developer

Well in that case.... how much for the rights to the GPL engine? Jan. ----

What? They just reorganized and Papyrus is part of Sierra's Core Games group along with Dynamix and a few others including some 3rd party developers. And yes, Havas owns Sierra. Perhaps you shouldn't spew rumors unless you can back them up.

Whats Q2 running right now...$20,000 or so us for licensing rights to use its engine? Or is it higher than that. GPL would be much higher for just the engine itself to buy...100,000 to 200,000? Maybe more. :) As high as the market would take it I'd say.

Quoted text (13 lines)

> Well in that case.... how much for the rights to the GPL engine? > Jan. > ---- > > Rumors inside Sierra is saying that Papyrus does not fit within Sierra's > > reorganization. Anyone know what the heck Sierra is up to? They sound > like > > they are getting ready to file for bankruptcy or to dissolve themselves. > > Isn't sierra owned by the French?! > > Is there anyone out there who knows what the heck is going on???

Just trying to keep it from falling into the wrong hands.... <g> Seriously.... false alarm I hope?? Jan. ----

Quoted text (15 lines)

> Whats Q2 running right now...$20,000 or so us for licensing rights to use > its engine? Or is it higher than that. GPL would be much higher for just > the engine itself to buy...100,000 to 200,000? Maybe more. :) As high as > the market would take it I'd say. > > Well in that case.... how much for the rights to the GPL engine? > > Jan. > > ---- > > > Rumors inside Sierra is saying that Papyrus does not fit within

Sierra's > > <snip>

On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:39:29 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >Whats Q2 running right now...$20,000 or so us for licensing rights to use >its engine? Or is it higher than that. GPL would be much higher for just >the engine itself to buy...100,000 to 200,000? Maybe more. :) As high as >the market would take it I'd say. As high as he market would take it eh? Well, considering the profits that can be generated with the Q2 engine compared to the rather mediocre figures from GPL I'd opt for a release as shareware... ;) --Tel

How many times does it have to be explained to people that its not the physics engine's fault that GPL sold mediocre number of copies? Geesh. I can pinpoint two major reasons off the top of my head. A) 1967 GP racing...who? what? Where are my mustangs and F1 cars or maybe my Taurus NASCAR car? In other words people, especially in the 'States where the largest market probably is, don't key in on 1967 GP cars, period. And those that do, may or may not be into actually racing them. B) Lack of a big marketing blitz of the game. Come on, 1967 GP cars aren't that popular, so you'd want to really market the game to get sales figures to go up. C) 1967 GP cars are hard to drive in real life PERIOD. Why would they be any different in a simulation?! Even if GPL had been a pure arcade game, it most likely because of A, and somewhat because of B still would have generated so-so sales. Class dismissed.

Xenophobe ? -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Okay guys, you are getting a little too carried away. Papyrus is still based in Watertown, Mass. They are reporting to the "core games" division of Sierra. Hope that makes sense. -- Dan Clarke Managing Editor Operation Sports http://www.operationsports.com

that would be cool but the GPL engine could be modified to be used with other games

Quoted text (11 lines)

>Okay guys, you are getting a little too carried away. >Papyrus is still based in Watertown, Mass. They are reporting to the >"core games" division of Sierra. >Hope that makes sense. >-- >Dan Clarke >Managing Editor >Operation Sports >http://www.operationsports.com

Thanks Dan. This newsgroup does tend to get carried away with itself every now and then Joel Willstein

>that would be cool >but the GPL engine could be modified to be used with other games No offense intended, but just how are you certain of this? It likely is possible, but there's a lot more to it than just plugging in other numbers. -- | "Instead of letting the moon be the Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our

Depends on how robustly they wrote it. :) But if they were/are using it for N3 and now maybe N4, I'd have to say its doable. :)

Quoted text (11 lines)

> >that would be cool > >but the GPL engine could be modified to be used with other games > No offense intended, but just how are you certain of this? It > likely is possible, but there's a lot more to it than just plugging in > other numbers. > -- > | "Instead of letting the moon be the > Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let > Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our

>A) 1967 GP racing...who? what? Where are my mustangs and F1 cars or maybe my >Taurus NASCAR car? In other words people, especially in the 'States where >the largest market probably is, don't key in on 1967 GP cars, period. And >those that do, may or may not be into actually racing them. I've become a lot more interested in that era SINCE I bought GPL...<g> When I first heard about GPL, I wanted it because I liked other Papy sims, and I figured this would be a great program, too. I don't really remember any advertising - I knew about it because I was already 'on the inside', so to speak. I actually bought it because I wanted the old TRACKS. The cars were actually secondary in my decision.<g> Eldred __ Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting? remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> It's called re-evaluation. They looked at 2 products and the staff > associated and decided it was a no go. EVery time Sierra gets taken over > games get canned. Relax, ya'll. Sierra/Havas have made some BAD moves recently - namely the cancellation of Babylon 5: ITF and Middle Earth, but I think it's safe to say that Papyrus will hang on. AFAIK, Papyrus is it's own entity under the Sierra label, meaning if Sierra wants it out, it would have to sell it - or Papyrus would have to buy itself back out. Off-Topic, we really need everyones support to save Babylon5: ITF and teach Sierra a lesson. 105 people lost their jobs with little notice this week. If you wish to help, head on over to http://www.firstones.com and check it out. We really need all the support we can get...PEACE! =-Rigs-= '...whatever answer, however illogical, must be the truth...'

I don' think that the original post is too far off the mark. Sierra today announced the dissolution of DYNAMIX, and took the TRIBES/TRIBES EXTREME/TRIBES II into the CORE GAMES fold. I am not sure about papy, but I think that Sierra is just their publisher. If they do own papy there could be a bunch of shakeups. I have a friend who worked for Sierra at their main office in Bellvue, WA. as a tester, and she got laid off. They are in deep financial straights. I think most of it can be traced back to the Cendant financials, and the cooked books, it is obviously hard to live that fiasco down. Andrew

Quoted text (30 lines)

> On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:52:32 -0500, > >Rumors inside Sierra is saying that Papyrus does not fit within Sierra's > >reorganization. > How do you know? > >Anyone know what the heck Sierra is up to? > Nope. > >They sound like > >they are getting ready to file for bankruptcy or to dissolve themselves. > Based on... ? > >Isn't sierra owned by the French?! > Yes. > >Is there anyone out there who knows what the heck is going on??? > No, and your troll isn't helping. > -- > * rrevved at mindspring dot com > * unit.26 s.p.u.t.u.m. > * http://www.cabal.net

>On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:52:32 -0500, >Based on... ? This, maybe -- Dynamix was supposed to be a part of Sierra's "Core" division: http://pc.ign.com/news/10706.html Hmmm . . . . . -- JB

> Rumors inside Sierra is saying that Papyrus does not fit within Sierra's > reorganization. Anyone know what the heck Sierra is up to? They sound like > they are getting ready to file for bankruptcy or to dissolve themselves. > Isn't sierra owned by the French?! > Is there anyone out there who knows what the heck is going on??? Hey Sierra, please sell Papyrus to someone so I don't have to spend any more money buying games from your corporate suits. Please? -- Toni Lassila

Personally while I feel for the people who have lost their jobs, the bigger loss of the two is Middle Earth. I've had my fill of unimaginative space combat licenses (or any unimaginative licenses). Anyway, there is talk of a new publisher taking the completed materials, the license and the team for the B5 game and finishing it. Who knows... M

Quoted text (10 lines)

> >On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:52:32 -0500, > >Based on... ? > This, maybe -- Dynamix was supposed to be a part of Sierra's "Core" > division: > [link lost in import]

"These games are aimed at *** gamers, which Sierra President Dave Grenewetzki described as "the guys who the only color in their skin comes from the light of their computer and the light in the refrigerator." I guess that's apart from the guys in Oregon for whom the only color in their skin comes from the three days of sunshine they get each year. But since Dynamix's core titles are flight sims, which are in the "marginal profitability" area according to Grenewetzki, there's little reason to keep the brand alive." Doesn't sound good to me... is really papy sims any less "marginally profitable"? -- Arne Martin

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > Rumors inside Sierra is saying that Papyrus does not fit within Sierra's > > reorganization. Anyone know what the heck Sierra is up to? They sound like > > they are getting ready to file for bankruptcy or to dissolve themselves. > > Isn't sierra owned by the French?! > > Is there anyone out there who knows what the heck is going on??? > Hey Sierra, please sell Papyrus to someone so I don't have to spend any > more money buying games from your corporate suits. Please?

And I don't have to install Papy sims in that damn Sierra folder anymore, plus tweaking the registry to move it to a folder I want... l8er ronny -- "I heard if you play the NT-4.0-CD backwards, you get a satanic message." "That's nothing, if you play it forward, it installs NT-4.0"

ARRGGGHHHGHGHGH. Do I have to keep posting the same stuff? Papyrus is owned by Sierra. Papyrus is their own studio in Watertown Mass, but their "boss" is Sierra. There are NO shakeups at Papy. Papy integrated into the "core software" section of Sierra. This means Papy's bosses are the Core Products division at Sierra. It is business as usual at Papy. And that's the bottom line, cuz Dan said so. -- Dan Clarke Managing Editor Operation Sports http://www.operationsports.com

On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:11:46 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >A) 1967 GP racing...who? what? Where are my mustangs and F1 cars or maybe my >Taurus NASCAR car? In other words people, especially in the 'States where >the largest market probably is, don't key in on 1967 GP cars, period. And >those that do, may or may not be into actually racing them. It didn't sell that well in Europe either... and yes I agree, 1967 racing doesn't mean much for most people but that's a marketing issue. Of course. But if that's all the 'simulation' has to offer they exclude a major part of the *** community and thus have to live with lousy sales figures. I don't think driving modern F1 is that simple either and still GP2 was a big hit simply because it pleased everyone, *** simmer and casual gamer likewise... (read scalable driving difficulty). Actually I could find a couple of more points *why* it didn't do well but then that's not what I meant. Fact is a game like Q2 outsells *every* simulation type game easily (but with GPL it's a quite drastic difference), thus the profits that can be made with licensing its engine are *much* higher - it's just logical that the GPL engine would have to be available at a considerably lower price. --Tel

Yes. Never said they didn't miss the boat on "scalability". Would have been nice to see full support [without changing ini files] for racing single player the Trainer and Advanced Trainer cars as F3/F2 cars. That would have helped in that respect. However, you STILL must have bought the game in the first place [and no, the majority of the casual gamers do NOT read *** mags or online *** mags] and taken it home and tried it.

One other item is being overlooked here........and from a retailers viewpoint it's no less important than the others: ability to save a race in progress. We (retailers) experienced a backlash to this non-inclusion with the original Nascar 2. We have also received a similar reaction with GPL. -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Not to mention the on-line updater function that _never_ finds any updates, even though they do exist. I have yet had their update utility find _any_ update. -Larry > > > Rumors inside Sierra is saying that Papyrus does not fit within Sierra's > > > reorganization. Anyone know what the heck Sierra is up to? They sound like > > > they are getting ready to file for bankruptcy or to dissolve themselves.

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > > Isn't sierra owned by the French?! > > > Is there anyone out there who knows what the heck is going on??? > > Hey Sierra, please sell Papyrus to someone so I don't have to spend any > > more money buying games from your corporate suits. Please? > And I don't have to install Papy sims in that damn Sierra folder > anymore, plus > tweaking the registry to move it to a folder I want... > l8er > ronny > -- > "I heard if you play the NT-4.0-CD backwards, you get a satanic > message." > "That's nothing, if you play it forward, it installs NT-4.0"

But surely as you're under SOR conditions that's not really an issue if people bring the title back? Sure you don't make the sale (although credit notes as opposed to refunds would ensure you don't lose) but you don't lose money either. M

Not all importers/distributors operate in that manner. In some cases we small retailers have to operate under completely different trading terms to large, multi-national, retailers (no names mentioned).

Quoted text (17 lines)

> But surely as you're under SOR conditions that's not really an issue if > people bring the title back? Sure you don't make the sale (although > credit notes as opposed to refunds would ensure you don't lose) but you > don't lose money either. > M > >One other item is being overlooked here........and from a retailers > >viewpoint it's no less important than the others: ability to save a race > >in progress. > >We (retailers) experienced a backlash to this non-inclusion with the > >original Nascar 2. We have also received a similar reaction with GPL.

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Someone is doing bad things in Aus then... the UK ain't like that for the most part. M

There was a time (over seven years ago) when we could import direct....bypassing the appointed national distributors. In those days we could compete but now.........more small businesses are going to the wall here than you can poke a stick at.

Quoted text (12 lines)

> Someone is doing bad things in Aus then... the UK ain't like that for the > most part. > M > >Not all importers/distributors operate in that manner. In some cases we > >small retailers have to operate under completely different trading terms > >to large, multi-national, retailers (no names mentioned).

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----