TNT2 Ultra & GPL?

Has anyone been able to get GPL to work with CL TNT2 Ultra? Everytime I select 3dx from the options window and reboot the sim it always goes back to software mode. Any ideas? TNT2 is supposed to be D3D & 3DFX... With no D3D in GPL I am trying 3Dfx. I had to replace my Rendition card because of N3 and I miss GPL! -- Ric Seyler Online Racing: RicSeyler http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

Get the OpenGL patch and use that. Put opengl.dll in your GPL directory. Works great for me(Asus V3800). 3DFX won't work AFAIK.

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> Has anyone been able to get GPL to work > with CL TNT2 Ultra? > Everytime I select 3dx from the options > window and reboot the sim > it always goes back to software mode. > Any ideas? > TNT2 is supposed to be D3D & 3DFX... > With no D3D in GPL I am trying 3Dfx. > I had to replace my Rendition card > because of N3 and > I miss GPL! > -- > Ric Seyler > Online Racing: RicSeyler > http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

I'm a little confused? Isn't OpenGL, 3DFX? And not D3D? Are you saying to run GPL in D3D or 3DFX? Is this patch in the Sierra web site? Any help will be appreciated! -- Ric Seyler Online Racing: RicSeyler http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

The patch is on www.papy.com which i think is down until next week, so get it from my site here: http://www.oppositelock.freeserve.co.uk/opengl.zip -- Cheers, Robin Lord - Trance DJ & Sim Racer. http://www.oppositelock.freeserve.co.uk Nurburgring and Grand Prix Legends | I'm a little confused? | Isn't OpenGL, 3DFX? And not D3D? | | Are you saying to run GPL in D3D or 3DFX? | | Is this patch in the Sierra web site? | | Any help will be appreciated! | | | -- | Ric Seyler | Online Racing: RicSeyler | http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler | |

Glide = 3dfx D3D = Microsoft OpenGL = (I don't remember) My point is that OpenGL, Glide and D3D are separate standards and they have nothing to do with eachother. (or maybe that they produce 3d graphics..). You should find that _OpenGL_ patch and adjust the mirror refresh rates as explained in the readme and you're set to go with GPL with you TNT card. -- /---------------\ Mika Takala ICQ 14314015 >I'm a little confused? >Isn't OpenGL, 3DFX? And not D3D? >Are you saying to run GPL in D3D or 3DFX? >Is this patch in the Sierra web site? >Any help will be appreciated! >-- >Ric Seyler >Online Racing: RicSeyler >http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

GPL supports natively rendering via software, Rendition chipsets, 3dfx Voodoo chipsets [Glide]. They have also an OpenGL beta, 2nd version, available that is primarily aimed at Nvidia TNT [and it does run with TNT2 cards] cards using OpenGL. There is no Direct3D rendering support in GPL. The only cards to run Glide are any based on the following chipsets by 3dfx: Voodoo, Voodoo Rush, Voodoo2, Banshee and Voodoo3. All these cards support Glide, D3D [not as well], and a subset of the full OpenGL API. Rendition cards such as those based on the V1100 and V2200 [such as the Hercules Thriller] handle Rendition based API and D3D somewhat, but drivers are really outdated. Most other cards you can currently buy such as those based on chipsets like the Nvidia TNT/TNT2/GeForce, S3 Savage3/Savage4, 3DLabs Permedia 2/3, ATI Rage Fury, Matrox G200/G400, etc. all implement Direct3D and OpenGL, although the OpenGL support really varies in how good it is from chipset to chipset and how much of the OpenGL API the drivers handle. Direct3D support is fairly good and well implemented across the board. Well they are all 3D APIs which are used to facilitate writing applications [including games] that are drawing 3D models to the screen. Yes, but mileage will vary. I've gotten it to run on a Hercules TNT2 Ultra and the Diamond Viper 770 Ultra [TNT2 Ultra] with a P2-400 and a Celeron 400 machines. Both have 128Mb+ of RAM too.

Common misconception since 3dfx was the first card to support OpenGl in a *** enviroment. 3dfx has a native language for 3d effects called Glide. When something says it is 3dfx compatible, they 'usually' are referring to the program being written for the Glide libraries. Direct 3d(D3d) is part of Microsoft's attempt to get the windows 95/98 Os's to run 3d. At first it was a very poor attempt and that is why Glide became so popular. (Fast and great effects) OpenGl came onto the scene when the Quake programmers were looking for a 3d language that was SIMPLE and FAST to program in. As such it became associated with 3dfx since they were the first to be able to use it. "most" cards now can run OpenGl and D3d. Only cards based on 3dfx chips can run Glide programs(there are some glide emulators tho) So for your TnT2 to run GPL you'll need a beta patch that enables your card to display GPL using the OpenGl routines. Available I believe at Papy.com and many GPL sites. Your card will never be able to run GLIDE or 3dfx options because it uses chips designed by Nvidia. So when you have graphic options, choose either OpenGl or D3d. Good Luck dave henrie

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> I'm a little confused? > Isn't OpenGL, 3DFX? And not D3D? > Are you saying to run GPL in D3D or 3DFX? > Is this patch in the Sierra web site? > Any help will be appreciated! > -- > Ric Seyler > Online Racing: RicSeyler > http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

Cris, sounds like you know your stuff. I'm getting really sick of no mirrors with my TNT2. I'm thinking of picking up a cheap Voodoo2 to add in for GPL. Can you tell me if a Voodoo2 would run as well as a TNT2 in a P3 550 ? -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

That may be so but I still run GPL with a thriller 8 meg and it looks and runs great. John Moore

wrong. 3dfx's so called 'miniport' did only support a subset of the complete opengl-standard. the full ICD followed much later, when nvidia/riva already had an opengl-ICD. this is not correct as GLIDE is only an API - one _could_ write a GLIDE-API for any other card and creative did actually write a glide-to-d3d-wrapper, which is said to work quite well. Lio

Didn't say it didn't. :) Just that the drivers for the Rendition cards, especially in terms of D3D which a lot of games support, is severly out of date.

Don, A TNT2, yes probably close. A TNT2 Ultra, no. With a single Voodoo2 you'd be limited to 800x600, but should be able to get 36fps with it at that resolution. With 2 Voodoo2s in SLI, you might be able to run 1024x768, but you'd have to turn down some options to get 36fps. This is of course basd on extrapolation of what I remember from running dual Voodoo2s in SLI on a P2-400.

No, the original poster is right. 3dfx was really the first major 3D chipmaker to support OpenGL, but as you say it was only a subset of the OpenGL specs. The full ICD is only available for Voodoo3 cards. As far as I last heard, their Unified driver did NOT work well at all in most cases.

I was having a problem getting the patch to work. 32 bit desktop, Doh! Thank for the replys everyone. I just got it to work, it sure didn't help the frame rate, and the graphics really suck compaired to Thriller 3D. I'll see if I can get some tweaks to work. Thanks again -- Ric Seyler Online Racing: RicSeyler http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

Probably have the settings setup wrong. Read the readme file that came with the OpenGL, personally I use the option that has no mipmapping, forget which it is, because I don't like their blending. Solid 36fps at 1024x768 with most options on, the distance meter half-way and mirrors set to 2.

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> I was having a problem getting the patch to > work. 32 bit desktop, Doh! > Thank for the replys everyone. I just got > it to work, it sure didn't help the frame > rate, > and the graphics really suck compaired to > Thriller 3D. I'll see if I can get some > tweaks to work. > Thanks again > -- > Ric Seyler > Online Racing: RicSeyler > http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

A V2 runs GPL better than any TNT card, in terms of consistent frame rate with nice mirrors. The TNT2U lets you run at higher resolutions and has nicer image quality (other than the mirrors), but those are lesser factors. The TNT mirror problem is with the drivers, not the fill rate, so a TNT2U isn't really different from a TNT1 in GPL, except that you can get mostly playable frame rates (with crappy mirrors) at 1152x864 or 1280x1024 instead of 1024x768. No, GPL will run at 1024x768 on a single V2. GPL does not use a Z-buffer, and 1024x768x2x2 < 4MB. One V2 works about as well as two SLI for GPL. If you already have a TNT2U for other games, just get one V2 card for GPL. HTH. -- spamgard(tm): To email me, put "geek" in your Subject line.

3dfx was the first game-oriented 3D chipmakers to support enough of OpenGL to run GLQuake. Pro-oriented 3D chipmakers of course supported all of OpenGL well before then. It works great for a few games (e.g. Unreal) but still can't run GPL. See: http://www.soundblaster.com/hotgraphics/unified/gameinfo.html There are other Glide wrappers out there. None is perfect. 3dfx's lawyers attack anyone who writes one. (IMO they have no case, but it takes real balls and a lot of money to fight even a frivolous nuisance lawsuit filed by a deep-pocketed corporation.) -- spamgard(tm): To email me, put "geek" in your Subject line.