GPL, Maybe Papy is...

>Hi, > maybe Papy is working on a track pack add-on for GPL, and this is >why, we didn't see David Kaemmer in either N3 or NL. >Who knows.... Well you know it's not just D Kaemmer who's MIA, it seem that the core of the GPL team is up to something. R Cassidy, M Sentell ,etc are all not working on the old technology. Jeff

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> >Hi, > > maybe Papy is working on a track pack add-on for GPL, and this is > >why, we didn't see David Kaemmer in either N3 or NL. > >Who knows.... > Well you know it's not just D Kaemmer who's MIA, it seem that the core > of the GPL team is up to something. R Cassidy, M Sentell ,etc are all > not working on the old technology.

Randy Cassidy is busy making tracks and converters under the alias, David Noonan.... -- Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

>Hi, > maybe Papy is working on a track pack add-on for GPL, and this is >why, we didn't see David Kaemmer in either N3 or NL. >Who knows.... I can remember (but I'm not really sure) that Papy si going to publish GPL2 (or an add-on to GPL) with the tracks and cars of 1961. In this year Monza had the longer course with the double banks (look at http://www.formulaone.free-online.co.uk/main.html). Anyone heard about that? -- Uli Winkelmann un sing K?lsche Sick op www.netcologne.de/~nc-winkelul

I heard a rumour that the mysterious David Noonan is in fact Elvis... Andre

> I heard a rumour that the mysterious David Noonan is in fact Elvis... Either way, he landed in New Mexico back in...1948 was it ? -- Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

I took a look at that site and found that some of the drivers listed have died two or more years before they are listed to have competed in F1 racing. Walt Ader DATE OF BIRTH 15 December 1913 DIED 25 November 1982 NATIONALITY American FIRST GP START Belgian GP 1994 hehe. now that was funny. Mike -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Now, if you have a chance to find it in a shop, you can buy GPL as an old game for little money. No business for sierra!!!!!!! You can read this in several forums!!!!! But, what can be changed? If the official partners, like Papy and sierra, aren't interested in working on GPL, why don't they open the source code to give the internet users the possibility to optimize the program and to keep it always the best on the actual computers. If you look on Linux, you will see the best example and will know, what I mean! If they will do so, GPL will be always actual in the future and will have a real chance, to be the standard on computer racing simulation (online), because it's without any actuality, which will order new circuits, new drivers and new cars each year (and new ads ;-) ). The chance for Papy and Sierra is: - having the biggest family of online-racing, - getting the Marketing effort of having made the best racing sim ever, - image transfer by seeing the Logo in every start-window of the GPL-Game - getting the name as the company of the sim-know-how. Why don't you try this, Papy and Sierra?????? Best Greetings Rolf Wesemann

Does nascar really need the GPL engine? I mean you got some rednecks driving around in the game, do you think they will want to make sure that each tire is modeled exactly to the real world? Its nascar for cryin out loud, bang bang, spin spin, win. ;-) heh heh weeeee JB

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> > maybe Papy is working on a track pack add-on for GPL, and this is > > why, we didn't see David Kaemmer in either N3 or NL. > IIRC David Kaemmer is leading the team working on N4, the Stock-car title > using the GPL game engine. > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

OK so they release the source code. Now where does their money come from?

Jeffrey Haas schrieb:

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> >Hi, > > maybe Papy is working on a track pack add-on for GPL, and this is > >why, we didn't see David Kaemmer in either N3 or NL. > >Who knows.... > Well you know it's not just D Kaemmer who's MIA, it seem that the core > of the GPL team is up to something. R Cassidy, M Sentell ,etc are all > not working on the old technology.

cart, cart, cart... What's life without hope? l8er ronny -- The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX! |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Hi, maybe Papy is working on a track pack add-on for GPL, and this is why, we didn't see David Kaemmer in either N3 or NL. Who knows....

Because the new game engine is theirs.. it would be a very bad decision to just put up a SDK of their source code. I mean this is the NEW Papyrus game engine. It's their baby, and it's the best on the market. It's an amazing piece of work they got there. No way they will open the doors for everybody to create any simulation you ever want with it. Papyrus is a business, and they are here to make money. It would be shooting themselves in the foot, imho ;) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Indeed. There are whole companies who design and license physics engines and sub-modules for game developers to use. One example is MathEngine in Oxford. There is no way I would make such a good product open source code. What does GPL have? About 20 DOF if I remember correctly, running at 288Hz on a lowly P166 (if you knock down the graphics). That is an incredibly efficient piece of code when I compare it to commercial multi-body dynamic sims, but to be fair to the commercial sims, they are plug and play module based, so no necessarily optimized for one task (modelling a race car, for example). Papyrus should and will keep this product close to their chest. Stephen

If you are serious in that post, it sounds like you really would prefer Nascar Revolution, Sega Daytona, etc., etc. Sure, with the PC & console technologies available for sale today the GPL engine simply would overload anything you can buy at your local Gateway store. However, in 2 years the available systems will probably have twice the throughput of the best you can buy today. The old-fashioned simplified physics models will then look like the original Pong; you will then have nearly photo-quality real-time dynamic graphics rendering, and you will want your Nascar sim to feel REAL! Then the descendant of the GPL engine will be at the core of what you buy, and you will complain if it is not that good. I sincerely hope that Papyrus will be allowed by Sierra to capitalize on their technical success at that time. heh heh weeeee to you too...so there. ;^} > Does nascar really need the GPL engine? I mean you got some rednecks > driving around in the game, do you think they will want to make sure that > each tire is modeled exactly to the real world? Its nascar for cryin out

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> loud, bang bang, spin spin, win. ;-) heh heh weeeee > JB > > > maybe Papy is working on a track pack add-on for GPL, and

this is > > > why, we didn't see David Kaemmer in either N3 or NL. > > IIRC David Kaemmer is leading the team working on N4, the Stock-car title

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> > using the GPL game engine. > > -- > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world." Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

>> maybe Papy is working on a track pack add-on for GPL, and this is >> why, we didn't see David Kaemmer in either N3 or NL. >IIRC David Kaemmer is leading the team working on N4, the Stock-car title >using the GPL game engine. So no CART title based on GPL engine in the horizon? This really ruins my year! :((( Damn! As if the world really needs yet another nascar title (<- intentionally spelled w/ lower case) BTW, what is IIRC?? Hena

AFAIK it means: [ :-) If I Remember Correct (ly) or If I Recall Correct(ly) > BTW, what is IIRC?? -- All the best, Edwin Solheim **remove spamguard in address to reply** Drop by "The Paddock - a legendary site....." for some cool GPL stuff! http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock

TUVM, and IIANM, YAAR. 73's.... ;O)

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> AFAIK it means: [ :-) > If I Remember Correct (ly) or > If I Recall Correct(ly) > > BTW, what is IIRC?? > -- > All the best, > Edwin Solheim **remove spamguard in address to reply** > Drop by "The Paddock - a legendary site....." for some cool GPL stuff! > http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

(I just couldn't resist a response in kind)! <g>

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> AFAIK it means: [ :-) > If I Remember Correct (ly) or > If I Recall Correct(ly) > > BTW, what is IIRC?? > -- > All the best, > Edwin Solheim **remove spamguard in address to reply** > Drop by "The Paddock - a legendary site....." for some cool GPL stuff! > http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Don't laugh. I thought this for sometime. No one ever hears from or sees any posts from Noonan. When I ordered his N2/ICR2 converter,I mailed my check to Jan Kohl. Joel Willstein

Doubt it. Very much so. Especially if at least the graphics engine were revamped slightly to take advantage of graphics cards that did transforms, and maybe lighting too depending on how they implemented it. Frees up, depending on who you talk to too, the cpu from middling to quite a bit which would be nice considering the amount of CPU GPL takes. Also with the Athlon 700 out, the P3-700s due out at the end of the October, by the end of the year first of the next year Gateway should easily be selling 1GigHz computers roughly which will probably swallow GPL and N4 quite easily. :) Twice? Nope...quite a bit more than that. Go back two years and look at what the computer could do then in terms of processor speed, instructions per second, data throughput both to peripherals and from cpu to memory, etc. Its easily more than twice as fast. Maybe. In the computer industry, 2 years is an awfully long time. By two years you should easily be running on 64 bit processors [Itanium or maybe the so-called AMD Sledgehammer with it's 64bit x86 instruction set (haha)] with Win64. Brings a whole new world of things and possibilities. However, while it may not be a direct descendant, I'm sure all that they learned doing GPL and N4 [if indeed it does have the GPL engine] will be applied, or at least we can hope so.

I guess you're not aware that Matt left the company and is very much "up to something", but just not within Papy anymore. As for Randy and Dave, from what I've seen the sky's the limit - fingers crossed that Intel et alia don't hold them back - ***y amateurs can't even get a CPU together that will run the sims we want... :-) Cheers! John

> Hi, > maybe Papy is working on a track pack add-on for GPL, and this is > why, we didn't see David Kaemmer in either N3 or NL. > Who knows.... If thats true.... I will be first in the queue, evan if I have to make the cheque out to Dave Noonan ;-) Dave Hawnt (UKGPL)

>I guess you're not aware that Matt left the company and is very much >"up to something", but just not within Papy anymore. Wow, wasn't aware of that, though not that I have any contact any more with Matt. Raced with him in an old Compuserve off-line ICR2 league and then corresponded a bit when I was beta testing for Papy. I expect he's doing something with racing car sims. Thanks, Jeff

Obviously I should not have let my PC Week subscription lapse, Chris. Thanks for the update. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

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> > Randy Cassidy is busy making tracks and converters under the alias, > > David Noonan.... > > -- > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > Don't laugh. I thought this for sometime. No one ever hears from or sees > any posts from Noonan. When I ordered his N2/ICR2 converter,I mailed my > check to Jan Kohl. > Joel Willstein

I'm not laughing (much :-) Nope, David doesn't post here often, but I heve seen a few posts from him in the past, suggesting that he at least reads this NG every now and then, but then again you could say the same for most of the really active Sim "guru's" out there, they're too busy working on stuff for the rest of us to enjoy I guess, keeping up an apperance on this NG and provide "online help" takes quite a bit of time, I've heard rumours about how many e-mails Jan Kohl gets in a day, I'm glad I don't have his job...... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy

Actually I prefer GPL, SCGT and an occasional spin in Viper. I am not serious about the post though. Thus the wink at the end. I wanted to see what type of reaction I could get out of you die-hard nascar fans... JB

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> If you are serious in that post, it sounds like you really would > prefer Nascar Revolution, Sega Daytona, etc., etc. Sure, with the PC & > console technologies available for sale today the GPL engine simply > would overload anything you can buy at your local Gateway store. > However, in 2 years the available systems will probably have twice > the throughput of the best you can buy today. The old-fashioned > simplified physics models will then look like the original Pong; you > will then have nearly photo-quality real-time dynamic graphics > rendering, and you will want your Nascar sim to feel REAL! Then the > descendant of the GPL engine will be at the core of what you buy, and > you will complain if it is not that good. > I sincerely hope that Papyrus will be allowed by Sierra to capitalize > on their technical success at that time. heh heh weeeee to you > too...so there. ;^} > > Does nascar really need the GPL engine? I mean you got some rednecks > > driving around in the game, do you think they will want to make sure > that > > each tire is modeled exactly to the real world? Its nascar for cryin > out > > loud, bang bang, spin spin, win. ;-) heh heh weeeee > > JB > > > > maybe Papy is working on a track pack add-on for GPL, and > this is > > > > why, we didn't see David Kaemmer in either N3 or NL. > > > IIRC David Kaemmer is leading the team working on N4, the Stock-car > title > > > using the GPL game engine. > > > -- > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > realise > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world." > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Maybe because they've spent millions of $$$ on this game and they don't want some other company to get it for free... Tadej

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> Now, if you have a chance to find it in a shop, you can buy GPL as an > old game for little money. > No business for sierra!!!!!!! > You can read this in several forums!!!!! > But, what can be changed? > If the official partners, like Papy and sierra, aren't interested in > working on GPL, why don't they open the source code to give the > internet users the possibility to optimize the program and to keep it > always the best on the actual computers. If you look on Linux, you > will see the best example and will know, what I mean! > If they will do so, GPL will be always actual in the future and will > have a real chance, to be the standard on computer racing simulation > (online), because it's without any actuality, which will order new > circuits, new drivers and new cars each year (and new ads ;-) ). > The chance for Papy and Sierra is: > - having the biggest family of online-racing, > - getting the Marketing effort of having made the best racing sim > ever, > - image transfer by seeing the Logo in every start-window of the > GPL-Game > - getting the name as the company of the sim-know-how. > Why don't you try this, Papy and Sierra?????? > Best Greetings > Rolf Wesemann

> Maybe because they've spent millions of $$$ on this game and they don't > want some other company to get it for free... > > Now, if you have a chance to find it in a shop, you can buy GPL as an

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> > old game for little money. > > No business for sierra!!!!!!! > > You can read this in several forums!!!!! > > But, what can be changed? > > If the official partners, like Papy and sierra, aren't interested in > > working on GPL, why don't they open the source code to give the > > internet users the possibility to optimize the program and to keep

it

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> > always the best on the actual computers. If you look on Linux, you > > will see the best example and will know, what I mean! > > If they will do so, GPL will be always actual in the future and will > > have a real chance, to be the standard on computer racing simulation > > (online), because it's without any actuality, which will order new > > circuits, new drivers and new cars each year (and new ads ;-) ). > > The chance for Papy and Sierra is: > > - having the biggest family of online-racing, > > - getting the Marketing effort of having made the best racing sim > > ever, > > - image transfer by seeing the Logo in every start-window of the > > GPL-Game > > - getting the name as the company of the sim-know-how. > > Why don't you try this, Papy and Sierra??????

GPL may not be going anywhere commerically now but, I think, everyone agrees that the main strength of GPL is in the physics engine and the AI. Both of these can (and I expect will) be used in future products. Papy/Sierra decided not to use them in Nascar3 because of the high compute power required (especially with as Nascar field of 40+ cars) which would be too much for the mass market they are aiming at with the Nascar franchise. In the N4 timeframe (say 2 years from now) they will be able to make assumptions of mass market installed base PCs with 500MHz processors + probability that graphics cards will be offloading significant processing from CPU. At that point they may be able to get a big pay back from the investment they have made in the physics/AI with GPL. As I mentioned in a previous post I can see the situation being similar to some car companies where new technologies can be tried out first in a high end/low volume marque and the moved down the product line as it is engineered to the relevant cost points - the example I quoted was something I read that said that Ford (I think) can justify the money it costs them to keep the Aston Martin marque going with very low sales volume on the basis that it is a test bed for new equipment etc that will filter down to the Jaguar line some years later. Clearly if they made GPL open source this would be lost - however a GPL-ed GPL does sound interesting :-) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.