steeringwheels cheap and expensive

Hi All, well i got a question, maybe it's asked over and over again but to me it's new. It's about steerings wheels and wich one to choose, HANG ON, but it's not about wich brand to buy or is this tm any good. I wonder i recently am using my 5th steeringwheel todays. After a while the potmeters give up, the springs brake or the mechanical parts start to be too lose. Anyway, now i'm considering saving up for one of thos ecustom made wheels like the those of thomas enterprise and likewise companies. I read a lot of euphoric revieuws of them on the net, does any of you guys out there have experience with the switch from cheapo plastic to resonable wheels to some of these more expensive type of wheels. Do they last longer and do you actualy get that more extra control that your lap times are comming down by this extra presicion? Should i save up or just replace my old one when this one gives up on me (and it will for sure). All comments are welcome (if you hink your thrustmaster doesn't stink as much as i think tell me too) l8ter Andre Hanegraaf

Andre, I used to use (and still have) a Thrustmaster Formula T1 that I bought new in July 1994. With just the replacement of the pots a couple of years ago (free from Thrustmaster at the time) and new springs it is still going strong for a friend of mine. I did have to attach a piece of plywood to the bottom of the wheel so I could clamp it to my desktop properly though. Those suctions cups just weren't a good idea :) However, in March of 1996 I purchased a Thomas Super Wheel. This is a GREAT wheel and the pedals are the best out there in my opinion. I've never had any problems with this wheel except for the usual worn pots which need replacing every 6 to 9 months (20 bucks and 30 minutes work). Earlier this year I even added the clutch pedal and an extra set of buttons, along with the ability to switch quickly between single axis and dual axis pedals. I noticed that the price has gone up quite a bit since I bought mine (paid $295 US back then and $105 US this year for the clutch pedal upgrade) but I still think that this wheel gives the best "value" of any of them. As for performance, in sims that require you to hold a very steady line (such as Nascar) when running in traffic, the TSW vastly outperforms the T1. Turning, accelerating and braking are consistent and predictable. The T1 just "wanders". I don't know exactly why, maybe it's the use of 250K pots instead of 100K pots, but it's just not as precise as the TSW. Of course, if you want force feedback, I'd heartily recommend the ActLabs Force RS. I just received mine back in late August and find it a real treat. I'm still faster in almost every sim with the TSW, but the difference is getting less all the time. And FF does add that little extra "something" if done correctly. Wayne Hutchison

Forget the wannabe state-of-the-art made by TSW. I've used a TSW that a friend of mine has and it's lame. There is very little that is precision about the construction of the unit, the feel, nor the components inside. The pedals will slide on the floor, and the clamping mechanism is crude at best. I was commissioned by a six***-year-old neighbor to duplicate the TSW, and I was able to meet and exceed the standards of their unit for a grand total of just under $130.00--and I used a wheel superior to the $25.00 Grant brand wheel TSW uses. I bought a 12" Black Rhino which took up $50.00 of the budget. If you are going to commit to sim-driving go for the gusto and lay out the bucks and buy a ECCI CDS unit, you'll never regret it. Replacing pots every six to nine months at $20.00 a pop is ludicrous. I don't care what anyone will tell you but I have put my units through thousands of hours without a problem. Joe Mendel www.mdc.net/~mets41 >Hi All, >well i got a question, maybe it's asked over and over again but to me it's >new. >It's about steerings wheels and wich one to choose, HANG ON, but it's not >about wich brand to buy or is this tm any good. I wonder i recently am using

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>my 5th steeringwheel todays. After a while the potmeters give up, the >springs brake or the mechanical parts start to be too lose. Anyway, now i'm >considering saving up for one of thos ecustom made wheels like the those of >thomas enterprise and likewise companies. I read a lot of euphoric revieuws >of them on the net, does any of you guys out there have experience with the >switch from cheapo plastic to resonable wheels to some of these more >expensive type of wheels. Do they last longer and do you actualy get that >more extra control that your lap times are comming down by this extra >presicion? Should i save up or just replace my old one when this one gives >up on me (and it will for sure). >All comments are welcome (if you hink your thrustmaster doesn't stink as >much as i think tell me too) >l8ter >Andre Hanegraaf

On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:36:11 +0200, "Andre Hanegraaf" >Hi All, >well i got a question, maybe it's asked over and over again but to me it's >new. [snip] >All comments are welcome (if you hink your thrustmaster doesn't stink as >much as i think tell me too) [snip] I bought my F1SIM steering wheel & pedal combo back in 1996 (or was that 1997? - I forget) and it's been brilliant. I've not had any problems with it. I did have to re-wire the axis so that all the axis were in consecutive order and that there were no gaps (DirectX Joystick or something required that for successful calibration that there were no gaps in the axis). -- Kulvinder Singh Matharu Website: http://www.matharu.demon.co.uk (note : e-mail header address deliberately mangled)

Why not build you own? Try http://www.gunpowder.freeserve.co.uk/wheels for details. >Hi All, >well i got a question, maybe it's asked over and over again but to me it's >new. >It's about steerings wheels and wich one to choose, HANG ON, but it's not >about wich brand to buy or is this tm any good. I wonder i recently am using

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>my 5th steeringwheel todays. After a while the potmeters give up, the >springs brake or the mechanical parts start to be too lose. Anyway, now i'm >considering saving up for one of thos ecustom made wheels like the those of >thomas enterprise and likewise companies. I read a lot of euphoric revieuws >of them on the net, does any of you guys out there have experience with the >switch from cheapo plastic to resonable wheels to some of these more >expensive type of wheels. Do they last longer and do you actualy get that >more extra control that your lap times are comming down by this extra >presicion? Should i save up or just replace my old one when this one gives >up on me (and it will for sure). >All comments are welcome (if you hink your thrustmaster doesn't stink as >much as i think tell me too) >l8ter >Andre Hanegraaf

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>It's about steerings wheels and wich one to choose, HANG ON, but it's not >about wich brand to buy or is this tm any good. I wonder i recently am using >my 5th steeringwheel todays. After a while the potmeters give up, the >springs brake or the mechanical parts start to be too lose. Anyway, now i'm >considering saving up for one of thos ecustom made wheels like the those of >thomas enterprise and likewise companies. I read a lot of euphoric revieuws >of them on the net, does any of you guys out there have experience with the >switch from cheapo plastic to resonable wheels to some of these more >expensive type of wheels. Do they last longer and do you actualy get that >more extra control that your lap times are comming down by this extra >presicion? Should i save up or just replace my old one when this one gives >up on me (and it will for sure).

I have an ECCI CDS4000 Daytona. I've had it about a year, and I figure I average about three hours a day. I can detect no difference in any way from the day I took it out of the boxes. It replaced a Thrustmaster T1 which was about two years old and was constantly apart for maintainence. The difference when I first got it was astounding. It is quite stable and precise and feels like a real car wheel. It is very adjustable in centering strength and resistance. That being said, it costs an INSANE amount of money. I have heard good things about the TSW, and it is a much more reasonable price, but I have no personal experience. Don McCorkle Libertarian Motorsports

I'll tell you the advice that i got on this NG that made my decision. Why buy a wheel that will last a lifetime when something better will come along in a year or two? Scott

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>Hi All, >well i got a question, maybe it's asked over and over again but to me it's >new. >It's about steerings wheels and wich one to choose, HANG ON, but it's not >about wich brand to buy or is this tm any good. I wonder i recently am using >my 5th steeringwheel todays. After a while the potmeters give up, the >springs brake or the mechanical parts start to be too lose. Anyway, now i'm >considering saving up for one of thos ecustom made wheels like the those of >thomas enterprise and likewise companies. I read a lot of euphoric revieuws >of them on the net, does any of you guys out there have experience with the >switch from cheapo plastic to resonable wheels to some of these more >expensive type of wheels. Do they last longer and do you actualy get that >more extra control that your lap times are comming down by this extra >presicion? Should i save up or just replace my old one when this one gives >up on me (and it will for sure). >All comments are welcome (if you hink your thrustmaster doesn't stink as >much as i think tell me too) >l8ter >Andre Hanegraaf

Sorry little boy, but I have three ECCI units. You see I'm an electrical engineer and I make little over $100,000 a year, so the fact that I have a job affords me the luxury of buying the things I want. I don't make wheels for everyone, just a neighbor who asked. Joe Mendel www.mdc.net/~mets41

P.T. Barnum lived for people like you, and credit card companies salivate at the possibilities . . . </RUNAWAY CONSUMERISM> > I'll tell you the advice that i got on this NG that made my decision. > Why buy a wheel that will last a lifetime when something better will come

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> along in a year or two? > Scott > >Hi All, > >well i got a question, maybe it's asked over and over again but to

me it's > >new. > >It's about steerings wheels and wich one to choose, HANG ON, but it's not > >about wich brand to buy or is this tm any good. I wonder i recently am using > >my 5th steeringwheel todays. After a while the potmeters give up, the > >springs brake or the mechanical parts start to be too lose. Anyway, now i'm > >considering saving up for one of thos ecustom made wheels like the those of > >thomas enterprise and likewise companies. I read a lot of euphoric revieuws > >of them on the net, does any of you guys out there have experience with the > >switch from cheapo plastic to resonable wheels to some of these more > >expensive type of wheels. Do they last longer and do you actualy get that > >more extra control that your lap times are comming down by this extra > >presicion? Should i save up or just replace my old one when this one gives > >up on me (and it will for sure). > >All comments are welcome (if you hink your thrustmaster doesn't stink as > >much as i think tell me too) > >l8ter > >Andre Hanegraaf Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

> Hi All, Hi Andre You've started a war :-) You will probably get as many replies to this as you could posiibly want, but here's my take on it First you need to make a decission, do I want FF or not...... Personally I don't care too much for FF at the moment (but Greg Cisko does :-), so personally I would have bought a custom made wheel, but that decission again depends on just how much money you are prepared to put into this hobby of yours Ok, so here goes 1. Money is no object, I want the best there is ECCI probably makes the best custom made wheels there is (I say probably as I have never actually tried one you see :-), it costs a small fortune, 1000 $ an upwards I think, but you get a good wheel with good service (I "know" a few that uses this wheel, and they are very happy with it), to me the pedals look a bit "odd", but I hear the precission and feel is very good 2. Money is bit tight, but I can spend a bit TSW, RRC, SRC and F1SIM (probably missed a few) all make very good and affordable wheels to your specification and at least TSW and RRC are usually present in this group, these wheels will probably last you a lifetime, and for about 250 $ and up, not too bad a deal, although some people don't like the "homemade" look of some of them, but the quality of the mechanical parts is very good on all them I believe Then you have the FF wheels, and if you want FF, the choice is a bit easier, there are no real custom made wheels here, you have the Logitech and the ACT Labs wheels currently being regarded as the "best" I think, with the MS and Saitek wheels as the runner ups, further "down" you have the Thustmaster units I guess, and probably a few I have missed, but common for them all is that you basically buy what they offer you, and that's it, if you like what they have to offer and you want your wheel (with FF) right away, you can't go wrong with a Logitech or an Act Labs I think Then you have all the "cheapo" wheels from Thrustmaster and all the others, some of them are fairly good too, I've heard a lot of good about the Act Labs RS wheel too, and some of them are digital and USB as well, and should be more precise than most older wheels anyway, but they are still "plastic" units, and will probably not last you as long as a custom made wheel Personally I have a homemade wheel (you could say it's a TSW replica) that I have combined with a set of RRC pedals, they will both outlast me I think :-), but some time up the road I know I will probably get a FF wheel as well, just not yet, and once you have owned a custom made wheel, you will never look back, for me it has been well worth the money I've spendt on it But people are different, I know a few that has been very happy with their T-1/2 or Nascar PRO from TM and has had very little problems with them, not to mention fast, and who thinks that 100$ for a store bought wheel is more than enough Hope this helps Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy

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>1. Money is no object, I want the best there is >ECCI probably makes the best custom made wheels there is (I say probably >as I have never actually tried one you see :-), it costs a small >fortune, 1000 $ an upwards I think, but you get a good wheel with good >service (I "know" a few that uses this wheel, and they are very happy >with it), to me the pedals look a bit "odd", but I hear the precission >and feel is very good

I never tried an ECCI, but I do own an Hyperstimulator. Expensive, but (for me) worth any cent I paid for it. Since Andre is Dutch, and because there is a Dutch reseller of Hyperstimulators, my advice to Andre is to check out: http://www.bernax.nl/ and ask if it is possible to try one out. They don't mind, because they know you'll buy it after you do....:-D One thing you've to consider if you buy a TSW or ECCI, that's the shipping you've to pay....making it more expensive then an Hyperstim. No, I won't get any money for spamming this...but I wouldn't mind. Remco

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> >1. Money is no object, I want the best there is > >ECCI probably makes the best custom made wheels there is (I say probably > >as I have never actually tried one you see :-), it costs a small > >fortune, 1000 $ an upwards I think, but you get a good wheel with good > >service (I "know" a few that uses this wheel, and they are very happy > >with it), to me the pedals look a bit "odd", but I hear the precission > >and feel is very good > I never tried an ECCI, but I do own an Hyperstimulator. Expensive, > but (for me) worth any cent I paid for it. Since Andre is Dutch, and > because there is a Dutch reseller of Hyperstimulators, my advice to > Andre is to check out: > http://www.bernax.nl/ > and ask if it is possible to try one out. They don't mind, because > they know you'll buy it after you do....:-D One thing you've to > consider if you buy a TSW or ECCI, that's the shipping you've > to pay....making it more expensive then an Hyperstim. > No, I won't get any money for spamming this...but I wouldn't mind.

LOL, guess I forgot Hyperstimulator........... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy

>Sorry little boy, but I have three ECCI units. You see I'm an electrical >engineer and I make little over $100,000 a year, so the fact that I have a >job affords me the luxury of buying the things I want. I don't make wheels >for everyone, just a neighbor who asked. Well if you were a real *GUY*, you would have given the kid one of your ECCI's :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>I'll tell you the advice that i got on this NG that made my decision. >Why buy a wheel that will last a lifetime when something better will come >along in a year or two? Bingo! That sounds like my advice :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>> Hi All, >Hi Andre >You've started a war :-) Nope that was last week :-) You know, I read this whole dumb assed thread to see if someone would figure out how to put my name into it somehow. Huh... <yada yada yada> All he has to do is read some of this NG a little to figure some stuff out. However :-) Sure he could buy a kickass $220-$1000 wheel that will survive a nuclear bomb blast. But as someone else has mentioned in another message, the technology changes so fast that you really probably will be up for an upgrade every 2 years or so. So yeah if you don't care about Force Feedback (which owners of the expensive wheels tend to not like. *DUH* I WONDER WHY?) then by all means get an ECCI or TSW. I've actually had a few email discussions with Trev (from TSW) and he seems like a genuine nice guy. But if you want to be blown away by FF in GPL or even N3 then check one of the cheaper (haha) $130-$170 Force Feedback wheels by ACTLabs or Logitech. Both of which have USB now (I think the ACTLabs has by now and the Logitech always has). Plus the Logitech will work with DOS racing games *EXCEPT* for Nascar2/N1999 (works fine in IndyCar Racing2). </yada yada yada> -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Strange Greg, My reconditioned USB Logitech FF runs N99 just swell, but of course, without any FF effects I a'most prefer the effects in SCGT, when I'm really pushing and the fronts begin to loose traction, the wheel chatters nicely. I haven't got that yet in GPL(probably cuz I"m so hopeless there I can't push hard enough to lose the fronts. :> ) TPTCC99 and the Bullrun 1000 sign up now! dave henrie

If you're such a hot shot, why don't you spend some of your money on a real racing car?

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> Sorry little boy, but I have three ECCI units. You see I'm an electrical > engineer and I make little over $100,000 a year, so the fact that I have a > job affords me the luxury of buying the things I want. I don't make wheels > for everyone, just a neighbor who asked. > Joe Mendel > www.mdc.net/~mets41

I have a race car. I drive a mini cup car and my nine-year-old son has a kart. If being able to have the things I want and want to give my family makes me a hot shot, well then I'm guilty as charged.

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>If you're such a hot shot, why don't you spend some of your money on a >real racing car? >> Sorry little boy, but I have three ECCI units. You see I'm an electrical >> engineer and I make little over $100,000 a year, so the fact that I have

a >> job affords me the luxury of buying the things I want. I don't make wheels >> for everyone, just a neighbor who asked. >> Joe Mendel >> www.mdc.net/~mets41

As a point of fact I did offer the kid one of my ECCI units, but his parent thought that it was too generous of an offer. They did think that building a controller with their son in my workshop was a good idea -- as long as he paid for all the materials. So he learned how to use the power tools in my wood shop, and he learned a bit about the electronics involved with the controllers. In addition he earned merit badges for Scouts.

Guys what the hell are you all picking on mets41 for? He is telling the truth go see his web-site there you can see his son with his kart and behind a ecci steering wheel. Don't be jelous on someone who has his life in order and does the things he likes to do as well be able to provide his family and friends with the things they want. Just be happy for him. Mets i think building his own steering wheel with the kid next door is a very nice thing, indeed he did learn a lot from it and besides that he can say he build it himself so he could be proud of it as well. Wished i had such neighbours ;) And to the rest don't spam me on my opinion nor on my english cause it's all selfthaught i'm not native english Andre Hanegraaf amsterdam

> >I have a race car. I drive a mini cup car and my nine-year-old son has a > >kart. If being able to have the things I want and want to give my family > >makes me a hot shot, well then I'm guilty as charged. > Guys what the hell are you all picking on mets41 for? He is telling the > truth go see his web-site there you can see his son with his kart and behind > a ecci steering wheel. Don't be jelous on someone who has his life in order > and does the things he likes to do as well be able to provide his family and > friends with the things they want. Just be happy for him. > Mets i think building his own steering wheel with the kid next door is a > very nice thing, indeed he did learn a lot from it and besides that he can > say he build it himself so he could be proud of it as well. Wished i had > such neighbours ;) > And to the rest don't spam me on my opinion nor on my english cause it's all > selfthaught i'm not native english > Andre Hanegraaf > amsterdam I applaud your english (better than a lot of my friends!), and I also applaud Mets' generosity and willingness to work with the kid next door. Now, what's the URL for Mets' Web site <G>??? -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

i don't mean you have to agree with his opinion, freedom of speech is what newsnet is all about. Sure, but i think in this case it was just as a defensive reply to someone who made a cyncal reply on he fact that if he is so good why he didn't start selling those wheels. Maybe he shouldn't have cause one could have seen it comming from far that you will get some friction on this subject, but speacking for myself i really don't care so much about what other people earn, i don't look up to that but i also don't get angry or irritated about that either. Just let, what does it matter to you. Besides only money doesn't make a perfect life. Maybe, i was not there, but also maybe not i don't know you don't know all i can go by is what he tells here in the group thanks i know i don't consider a reply a spam, but in the past i've been spammed on expressed opions in other news groups, i dont mind a dif. opinion i love to read other peoples point of vieuws, but i don't like childish mails aimed directly at me with insults wich don't have the slightest touch with the subject we're discussing. I had that before that's why i put in the line. Thanks for your reply Andre Amsterdam

i saw it standing underneath his replies so i went and checked it out, always curious about the people who you change ideas with. but for your convinience i pasted it below for you. www.mdc.net/~mets41 greetings Andre

It most certainly will not run the DOS version (required for multiplay) well. There is a well known feature in their joystick driver which prevents a good calibration in the DOS game with digital input devices. You must be using the Windows version. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>I have a race car. I drive a mini cup car and my nine-year-old son has a >kart. If being able to have the things I want and want to give my family >makes me a hot shot, well then I'm guilty as charged. No, I reckon bragging about it on Usenet qualifies you as a "hot shot". Nah, I take that back. It more likely makes you a "loser". Anyone who feels he has to tell complete strangers his yearly salary (as if anyone would believe him in the first place) needs some help with his self-image. Takes all kinds, --mK