GPL: Online cheating detected !

This evening I had an online race at Watkins Glen, with 13 other people. One guy was making constant laps of 59:xx. I wanted to know how he did this, so after a lap or 3 I quit the race and watched him. And I saw very strange things. At allmost every corner, he drove into the grass, and his engine made such high rpm's that I thought his engine would blow immediately. He then dissappeared completely, and a second later he was on the track, at a perfect line, and further ahead than he would have been normally. The first time I thought it could be a warping problem. But it happened at EVERY corner. Other people started to watch him too, and also noticed this. The guy drove on and on, constantly driving 59:xx laps. According to his braking points and driving style he normally would drive in the 1:06 - 1:07 zone. Perhaps it wasn't cheating, and it was a warping problem, but after everyone who watched him started to wonder. Nobody had warping problems during that race, and the 59:xx guy didn't jump left and right on the track as normally seen with warping problems. Anyone else saw something like this online? Andre

I'd love to see a replay... =:-) Robert Hull, Qubec

Hey Andre! Was this on the Gear Shift server? I saw something like this on this server, also on Watkins Glen. The driver involved wasn't cheating, I am sure of that. And he was warping too. The Gear Shift server sometimes has this, due to server overload/long time running the GPL server without resetting.. Remco

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>This evening I had an online race at Watkins Glen, with 13 other >people. One guy was making constant laps of 59:xx. >I wanted to know how he did this, so after a lap or 3 I quit the race >and watched him. And I saw very strange things. >At allmost every corner, he drove into the grass, and his engine made >such high rpm's that I thought his engine would blow immediately. He >then dissappeared completely, and a second later he was on the track, >at a perfect line, and further ahead than he would have been normally. >The first time I thought it could be a warping problem. But it >happened at EVERY corner. Other people started to watch him too, and >also noticed this. The guy drove on and on, constantly driving 59:xx >laps. According to his braking points and driving style he normally >would drive in the 1:06 - 1:07 zone. >Perhaps it wasn't cheating, and it was a warping problem, but after >everyone who watched him started to wonder. Nobody had warping >problems during that race, and the 59:xx guy didn't jump left and >right on the track as normally seen with warping problems. >Anyone else saw something like this online? >Andre

What would his lap times be in MPH? Racer X Veteran Sim Racer Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

My bet - someone's figured out GPL's online code really good and has a bot that makes it look sorta like its warping, but just moves it really far ahead on the track...which would explain why they were all 59:xx's and not a 1:00:xx or a 58:xx in there too much. -- Kirk Lane ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "It goes down the same as a thousand before No one's gettin' smarter, no one's learnin the score The never ending spree of death and *** and hate Is gonna tie your own rope" -'Come Out And Play', The Offspring

Yes it was Remco, and I'm glad to read that it was a warping error. But is was so strange to watch. With normal warping problems, you see the warping happing inconstant. But this guy had it at EVERY corner, and drove constant 59:00 laps on WG (17 lap race!). Everybody who noticed this waited eagerly untill after the race to ask him about this, but he didn't answer any questions and left without saying a word. So I really thought there was cheating involved... Andre

> What would his lap times be in MPH? 59 seconds at the Glen would be 140.3389830 MPH and 225.8237288 KPH. I wrote a small application for GPL that would calculate the mph and kph of each track when you in put the lap time. It's on the links page of my site and on the GPL Utilities section of the Pits site and a few other odd places. Mike -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/ Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Why don't you MAKE SURE cheating IS involved, before you use the topic " GPL: Online cheating detected !"? Read your last sentence stupid, (So I really thought there was cheating involved...) and I think you will find your biggest problem. You were thinking.

Wow. Did he really deserve such a harsh flame? He "really thought" that cheating was involved. That means he was pretty sure at the time of his first post. Let's just calm down and take a deep breath. Mark Reading, UK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

flame, flame, flame

Wow, Mike, that's a little harsh.

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> > Yes it was Remco, and I'm glad to read that it was a warping error. > > But is was so strange to watch. With normal warping problems, you see > > the warping happing inconstant. But this guy had it at EVERY corner, > > and drove constant 59:00 laps on WG (17 lap race!). > > Everybody who noticed this waited eagerly untill after the race to ask > > him about this, but he didn't answer any questions and left without > > saying a word. > >So I really thought there was cheating involved... > Why don't you MAKE SURE cheating IS involved, before you use the topic " > GPL: Online cheating detected !"? Read your last sentence stupid, (So I > really thought there was cheating involved...) > and I think you will find your biggest problem. You were thinking.

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Sigh... Ok, I should have said GPL: Possible cheating detected. Excuse me. Watching this guy driving constant 59:xx laps made me sick, especially seeing how he did it. I couldn't imagine that it was a warp problem, since he drove into the grass at every corner and suddenly was back on the track, much further ahead than he would normally have been. At least ten people were watching this, and after the race someone asked him if he had any idea how this happened. The only thing he said was '***!!!', and then he disappeared. Problem is, English is not my native language as you would have guessed, and I haven't got the faintest clue what *** means. But I don't feel that it was an explanantion for his driving... Three people (including me) were driving in the race and suddenly saw him appear in front of us. I watched this again in the replay, he was driving WAY behind me, and suddenly he disappeared for a second, and then he drove in front of me. Anyway, I really hope this was a warping problem. By the way Mr. Adams. you've got a serious attitude problem. Something I really hate is all these flames going on on the newsgroups, and I know I'm going to start one if I really tell you what I think of you at this moment. The topic of my post was not correct, I admit, but there was no need to attack me like that. Never forget that you're dealing with real persons here. In real life you wouldn't attack me like that. I hope for you :) Andre

Andre, You are right. You didn't deserve to be flamed. I think you'll find that Mr. Adams' biggest problem is that he doesn't think.

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> Sigh... > Ok, I should have said GPL: Possible cheating detected. Excuse me. > Watching this guy driving constant 59:xx laps made me sick, especially > seeing how he did it. I couldn't imagine that it was a warp problem, > since he drove into the grass at every corner and suddenly was back on > the track, much further ahead than he would normally have been. > At least ten people were watching this, and after the race someone > asked him if he had any idea how this happened. The only thing he said > was '***!!!', and then he disappeared. > Problem is, English is not my native language as you would have > guessed, and I haven't got the faintest clue what *** means. > But I don't feel that it was an explanantion for his driving... > Three people (including me) were driving in the race and suddenly saw > him appear in front of us. I watched this again in the replay, he was > driving WAY behind me, and suddenly he disappeared for a second, and > then he drove in front of me. > Anyway, I really hope this was a warping problem. > By the way Mr. Adams. you've got a serious attitude problem. Something > I really hate is all these flames going on on the newsgroups, and I > know I'm going to start one if I really tell you what I think of you > at this moment. > The topic of my post was not correct, I admit, but there was no need > to attack me like that. Never forget that you're dealing with real > persons here. In real life you wouldn't attack me like that. > I hope for you :) > Andre > > Why don't you MAKE SURE cheating IS involved, before you use the topic " > >GPL: Online cheating detected !"? Read your last sentence stupid, (So I > >really thought there was cheating involved...) > >and I think you will find your biggest problem. You were thinking.

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

So Andre was right and it WAS cheating!

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> My bet - someone's figured out GPL's online code really good and has a bot > that makes it look sorta like its warping, but just moves it really far > ahead on the track...which would explain why they were all 59:xx's and not a > 1:00:xx or a 58:xx in there too much. > -- > Kirk Lane > ICQ: 28171652 > BRT #187 > "It goes down the same as a thousand before > No one's gettin' smarter, no one's learnin the score > The never ending spree of death and *** and hate > Is gonna tie your own rope" > -'Come Out And Play', The Offspring > > This evening I had an online race at Watkins Glen, with 13 other > > people. One guy was making constant laps of 59:xx. > > I wanted to know how he did this, so after a lap or 3 I quit the race > > and watched him. And I saw very strange things. > > At allmost every corner, he drove into the grass, and his engine made > > such high rpm's that I thought his engine would blow immediately. He > > then dissappeared completely, and a second later he was on the track, > > at a perfect line, and further ahead than he would have been normally. > > The first time I thought it could be a warping problem. But it > > happened at EVERY corner. Other people started to watch him too, and > > also noticed this. The guy drove on and on, constantly driving 59:xx > > laps. According to his braking points and driving style he normally > > would drive in the 1:06 - 1:07 zone. > > Perhaps it wasn't cheating, and it was a warping problem, but after > > everyone who watched him started to wonder. Nobody had warping > > problems during that race, and the 59:xx guy didn't jump left and > > right on the track as normally seen with warping problems. > > Anyone else saw something like this online? > > Andre

That is probably what it is. You should have thought some more, before you started on the topic. Hey, bud, by all means, step up to keyboard, and wiggle your way out of it. Tell me how it is OK for you to make an accusation of online cheating, when you don't have the facts? Remeber, YOU started your topic off, by saying you detected cheating, and that ain't good. By what means did you use for the detection? Just looking for cold hard facts, on my end. By the way, did you know that in America, you are innocent, until PROVEN guilty? How would you like it if someone accused you of the same thing, on mere speculation? You probably wouldn't like it. You bet your ass I would, if you accused me of something, without the facts. Hey Andre, you must have lots of free time on your hands, if you can sit around, and watch someone turn laps, online.

Please post the facts to back up the accusation, or would that be too much to ask? > > My bet - someone's figured out GPL's online code really good and has a bot > > that makes it look sorta like its warping, but just moves it really far > > ahead on the track...which would explain why they were all 59:xx's and not a

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> > 1:00:xx or a 58:xx in there too much. > > -- > > Kirk Lane > > ICQ: 28171652 > > BRT #187 > > "It goes down the same as a thousand before > > No one's gettin' smarter, no one's learnin the score > > The never ending spree of death and *** and hate > > Is gonna tie your own rope" > > -'Come Out And Play', The Offspring > > > This evening I had an online race at Watkins Glen, with 13 other > > > people. One guy was making constant laps of 59:xx. > > > I wanted to know how he did this, so after a lap or 3 I quit the race > > > and watched him. And I saw very strange things. > > > At allmost every corner, he drove into the grass, and his engine made > > > such high rpm's that I thought his engine would blow immediately. He > > > then dissappeared completely, and a second later he was on the track, > > > at a perfect line, and further ahead than he would have been normally. > > > The first time I thought it could be a warping problem. But it > > > happened at EVERY corner. Other people started to watch him too, and > > > also noticed this. The guy drove on and on, constantly driving 59:xx > > > laps. According to his braking points and driving style he normally > > > would drive in the 1:06 - 1:07 zone. > > > Perhaps it wasn't cheating, and it was a warping problem, but after > > > everyone who watched him started to wonder. Nobody had warping > > > problems during that race, and the 59:xx guy didn't jump left and > > > right on the track as normally seen with warping problems. > > > Anyone else saw something like this online? > > > Andre

Someone please hand me bucket o'water.... kssshhh Let's ignore this thread until people have cooled and than look at what happened again. With all this flaming we'll never know the truth. // Johan

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> > Sigh... > > Ok, I should have said GPL: Possible cheating detected. Excuse me. > > Watching this guy driving constant 59:xx laps made me sick, especially > > seeing how he did it. I couldn't imagine that it was a warp problem, > > since he drove into the grass at every corner and suddenly was back on > > the track, much further ahead than he would normally have been. > > At least ten people were watching this, and after the race someone > > asked him if he had any idea how this happened. The only thing he said > > was '***!!!', and then he disappeared. > > Problem is, English is not my native language as you would have > > guessed, and I haven't got the faintest clue what *** means. > > But I don't feel that it was an explanantion for his driving... > > Three people (including me) were driving in the race and suddenly saw > > him appear in front of us. I watched this again in the replay, he was > > driving WAY behind me, and suddenly he disappeared for a second, and > > then he drove in front of me. > > Anyway, I really hope this was a warping problem. > That is probably what it is. You should have thought some more, before you > started on the topic. > > By the way Mr. Adams. you've got a serious attitude problem. Something > > I really hate is all these flames going on on the newsgroups, and I > > know I'm going to start one if I really tell you what I think of you > > at this moment. > Hey, bud, by all means, step up to keyboard, and wiggle your way out of it. > Tell me how it is OK for you to make an accusation of online cheating, when > you don't have the facts? Remeber, YOU started your topic off, by saying > you detected cheating, and that ain't good. By what means did you use for > the detection? Just looking for cold hard facts, on my end. By the way, > did you know that in America, you are innocent, until PROVEN guilty? How > would you like it if someone accused you of the same thing, on mere > speculation? You probably wouldn't like it. > > The topic of my post was not correct, I admit, but there was no need > > to attack me like that. Never forget that you're dealing with real > > persons here. In real life you wouldn't attack me like that. > > I hope for you :) > You bet your ass I would, if you accused me of something, without the facts. > Hey Andre, you must have lots of free time on your hands, if you can sit > around, and watch someone turn laps, online. > > Andre > > > Why don't you MAKE SURE cheating IS involved, before you use the topic > " > > >GPL: Online cheating detected !"? Read your last sentence stupid, (So I > > >really thought there was cheating involved...) > > >and I think you will find your biggest problem. You were thinking.

: That is probably what it is. You should have thought some more, before you : started on the topic. I'd say he thought a lot, and came to a logical conclusion, based on the nature of what he observed, that this did not fit with warping. : Hey, bud, by all means, step up to keyboard, and wiggle your way out of it. : Tell me how it is OK for you to make an accusation of online cheating, when : you don't have the facts? Remeber, YOU started your topic off, by saying : you detected cheating, and that ain't good. By what means did you use for So you're the champion of wrongfully accused GPL online racers worldwide? :> The topic of my post was not correct, I admit, but there was no need :> to attack me like that. Never forget that you're dealing with real :> persons here. In real life you wouldn't attack me like that. :> I hope for you :) : You bet your ass I would, if you accused me of something, without the facts. : Hey Andre, you must have lots of free time on your hands, if you can sit : around, and watch someone turn laps, online. Um, but I don't believe the accusation was levelled personally at you, unless you happen to be the individual who signed up, turned the magic laps, bellowed a hearty "***!" and then vanished. I'd say Andre was making good use of his time. If someone showed up on an online N3 or GPL race and started turning much faster laps than everyone else, I'd probably watch them, if for anything to see where they are getting those extra seconds from. Now, as for produtive use of time Mr. Adams... Stephen

I sure wouldn't blame you for crying wolf in this case, even if done a bit prematurely. After all, you didn't mention any names, it wasn't a personal attack, you merely expressed your concern. Maybe Mike has sometimes been falsely accused of cheating in online games which would more than explain his little outburst. Everyone here can imagine how utterly infuriating it would feel to be accused of cheating if you had just put up the performance of your lifetime. Still, I'm not surprised you started to suspect something. Unless you questioned the guy's (gal's) integrity in an EXTREMELY rude manner and had already judged him, his behavior was - in my experience - very representative of a typical cheater. For someone who is NOT cheating, it is usually VERY important to try to reason with the accusers, to clear one's name and convince the others that the masterful performance is a result of haaard work, rather than a bagful of devious shortcuts. If you've really worked relentlessly to improve your performance (likely in GPL), you're proud of your achievements (whatever they may be, you've paid the price in sweat and tears) and won't take it lightly when someone accuses you of cheating. OTOH, real cheaters rarely bother to take the trouble of trying to put up an Oscar performance in order to convince anyone. They tend to take the shortest route, that's what it's all about... From this perspective the behavior you described is indeed a bit suspicious, UNLESS the guy is just so god damn superior to everyone else that he's constantly being accused of cheating and has grown tired of it all. Not likely, for a wealth of reasons. I suppose what people fear here is that paranoia starts to rise its ugly head and these accusations become commonplace in GPL online community, littering this relatively peaceful harbor which could probably be viewed as one of the most mature & clean online *** communities there is. --- Antti Markus Peteri 15 miles. your dim light shines from so far away - Soul Asylum, Promises Broken

It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT! > : That is probably what it is. You should have thought some more, before you > : started on the topic. > I'd say he thought a lot, and came to a logical conclusion, based on the > nature of what he observed, that this did not fit with warping. > : Hey, bud, by all means, step up to keyboard, and wiggle your way out of it. > : Tell me how it is OK for you to make an accusation of online cheating, when > : you don't have the facts? Remeber, YOU started your topic off, by saying > : you detected cheating, and that ain't good. By what means did you use for

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> So you're the champion of wrongfully accused GPL online racers worldwide? > :> The topic of my post was not correct, I admit, but there was no need > :> to attack me like that. Never forget that you're dealing with real > :> persons here. In real life you wouldn't attack me like that. > :> I hope for you :) > : You bet your ass I would, if you accused me of something, without the

facts.

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> : Hey Andre, you must have lots of free time on your hands, if you can sit > : around, and watch someone turn laps, online. > Um, but I don't believe the accusation was levelled personally at you, > unless you happen to be the individual who signed up, turned the magic > laps, bellowed a hearty "***!" and then vanished. > I'd say Andre was making good use of his time. If someone showed up on an > online N3 or GPL race and started turning much faster laps than everyone > else, I'd probably watch them, if for anything to see where they are > getting those extra seconds from. Now, as for produtive use of time Mr. > Adams... > Stephen

If someone is contstantly running 59:xx laps, yes, I stay to watch him doing this. I don't think this is a waste of time. Studying other driver can be VERY helpfull in improving your own driving. I waited untill after the race, like everyone who dropped out of the race (realistic damage and no shift-r allowed, so quite some people dropped out). We were all waiting to hear his comments of this performance, and all we got was '***!!!'. I think it's normal we all got the 'chating' feeling by his reaction. If he really could drive like this, he would be proud, and he wouldn't react that way. If this happenend to me, and I knew it was a warping problem, I also would talk to the other drivers about this after the race. Not that he was obligated to talk to us after the race, but it would have been polite. Look up that last word in your dictionary, by the way. But really Mike, you should work on your attitude. I guess you're really young, but when you get older, you can get into serious emotional and relationship problems if you keep up this offensive attitude. I tried to make an apology in my former post, by stating that I should have used the word 'probably' in the topic, allthough my the post itself I explained what happened very clearly (... maybe it was a warping problem...). I really can't see any reason for your behaviour. Andre PS I love that typical 'but here in AMERICA...' bla bla :)

Uhhh... Steve, what does '***!!!' mean? Andre

> : It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT! > My apologies. Accepted.

Mike, You are truely a total ***! EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're always flamming someone for something. And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did it to me last week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He comes across as some kind of expert, but he's probably just some wannabe.....". BTW - I really did drive there with the SCCA. Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute instead of being a jerk all the time?

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>> So Andre was right and it WAS cheating! >Please post the facts to back up the accusation, or would that be too much >to ask? >> > My bet - someone's figured out GPL's online code really good and has a >bot >> > that makes it look sorta like its warping, but just moves it really far >> > ahead on the track...which would explain why they were all 59:xx's and >not a >> > 1:00:xx or a 58:xx in there too much. >> > -- >> > Kirk Lane >> > ICQ: 28171652 >> > BRT #187 >> > "It goes down the same as a thousand before >> > No one's gettin' smarter, no one's learnin the score >> > The never ending spree of death and *** and hate >> > Is gonna tie your own rope" >> > -'Come Out And Play', The Offspring >> > > This evening I had an online race at Watkins Glen, with 13 other >> > > people. One guy was making constant laps of 59:xx. >> > > I wanted to know how he did this, so after a lap or 3 I quit the race >> > > and watched him. And I saw very strange things. >> > > At allmost every corner, he drove into the grass, and his engine made >> > > such high rpm's that I thought his engine would blow immediately. He >> > > then dissappeared completely, and a second later he was on the track, >> > > at a perfect line, and further ahead than he would have been

normally.

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>> > > The first time I thought it could be a warping problem. But it >> > > happened at EVERY corner. Other people started to watch him too, and >> > > also noticed this. The guy drove on and on, constantly driving 59:xx >> > > laps. According to his braking points and driving style he normally >> > > would drive in the 1:06 - 1:07 zone. >> > > Perhaps it wasn't cheating, and it was a warping problem, but after >> > > everyone who watched him started to wonder. Nobody had warping >> > > problems during that race, and the 59:xx guy didn't jump left and >> > > right on the track as normally seen with warping problems. >> > > Anyone else saw something like this online? >> > > Andre

Mr. Adams, if you hadn't so overzealously attacked Andre to begin with today, we would have never known or suspected that you were the driver with the abnormally performing car. We also would not have experienced your anger. If you think you have been wronged, you are taking an awfully roundabout route to solving the problem. If I find a spill on the den floor, say "Somebody spilled something here!", and have my daughter run up to me shrieking about being falsely accused, damn right I will suspect her of making the mess. You are acting like an angry ***ager - please get a grip and drop the matter unless you have something constructive to add. You might just be one hell of a good driver who was experiencing warping problems on a very consistent network connection. If so, just say so and stop shrieking, please. Thank you. > > So Andre was right and it WAS cheating! > Please post the facts to back up the accusation, or would that be too much > to ask? > > > My bet - someone's figured out GPL's online code really good and has a > bot > > > that makes it look sorta like its warping, but just moves it really far > > > ahead on the track...which would explain why they were all 59:xx's and

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> not a > > > 1:00:xx or a 58:xx in there too much. > > > -- > > > Kirk Lane > > > ICQ: 28171652 > > > BRT #187 > > > "It goes down the same as a thousand before > > > No one's gettin' smarter, no one's learnin the score > > > The never ending spree of death and *** and hate > > > Is gonna tie your own rope" > > > -'Come Out And Play', The Offspring > > > > This evening I had an online race at Watkins Glen, with 13

other > > > > people. One guy was making constant laps of 59:xx. > > > > I wanted to know how he did this, so after a lap or 3 I quit the race > > > > and watched him. And I saw very strange things. > > > > At allmost every corner, he drove into the grass, and his engine made > > > > such high rpm's that I thought his engine would blow immediately. He > > > > then dissappeared completely, and a second later he was on the track, > > > > at a perfect line, and further ahead than he would have been normally. > > > > The first time I thought it could be a warping problem. But it > > > > happened at EVERY corner. Other people started to watch him too, and > > > > also noticed this. The guy drove on and on, constantly driving 59:xx > > > > laps. According to his braking points and driving style he normally > > > > would drive in the 1:06 - 1:07 zone. > > > > Perhaps it wasn't cheating, and it was a warping problem, but after > > > > everyone who watched him started to wonder. Nobody had warping > > > > problems during that race, and the 59:xx guy didn't jump left and > > > > right on the track as normally seen with warping problems. > > > > Anyone else saw something like this online? > > > > Andre Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Thanks, Mike... I had just asked you for an ounce of calm in the original thread, and found it immediately after posting.

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> > : It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT! > > My apologies. > Accepted. > > Stephen

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Hmm, if it was you, you're surely able to explain what "***" means, aren't you? Please tell me!!! Crash Mike Adams schrieb:

: It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT! My apologies. This was not clear. Stephen

Yes, it was too prematurely, but indeed I was very concerned about this. While watching him, we all were affraid that he was cheating, as I explained in my former posts. And like you said, his reaction after the race didn't take away our concerns... According to his driving style, that's a definately no. Other drivers were clearly faster than him, but he just disappeared at every corner and reappeared in front of the other drivers. The kind of warping we were seeing yesterday was completely new to all of us. Now that Remco stated that this kind of warping happens more often on that specific GPL server, I think it's all cleared up now, and there's absolutely no reason for paranoia. Oh, Mike, if you're reading this: the way Steve and Antti react is how civilized people react. Andre

>It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT! Okay, I believe you. But, based on your reaction just after the race, and those since, I'd have to say you're the jerk here. Kurt

I AM the person that was WARPING, in the race. But for some reason you felt like I was cheating, and although you did not point the finger directly to me, you were wrong in your assumption. I did not owe you any kind of explanation because as you were watching me, your mind was already made up. You thought I was cheating. Oh, and by the way, I'm glad you liked the 'but here in AMERICA... Maybe you learned a valuable lesson about improper accusations. Mike P.S. Didn't I see you making hot laps the other night? Were you cheating? Probably not, but you never know....

Damn, too late Jan, now Mike's onto you too! :))) Andre >> So Andre was right and it WAS cheating! >Please post the facts to back up the accusation, or would that be too much >to ask?

He Jan, back from Australia? Great, I missed our racing and mailing man! Quite a lot happened the last three weeks, some new sims, 1.2 for GPL, new spyboy, we really have to chat again. Tonight, Monza, 20:00? But back to the topic: Kirk, I can only pray that you're wrong, and that Remco was right, that this kind of warping is a specific problem of that GPL server. And Jan, be very carefull with your statements, before you know it you've got Mike on your tail... :) Andre On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 13:49:40 +0100, Jan Hovius

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>So Andre was right and it WAS cheating! >> My bet - someone's figured out GPL's online code really good and has a bot >> that makes it look sorta like its warping, but just moves it really far >> ahead on the track...which would explain why they were all 59:xx's and not a >> 1:00:xx or a 58:xx in there too much. >> -- >> Kirk Lane >> ICQ: 28171652 >> BRT #187 >> "It goes down the same as a thousand before >> No one's gettin' smarter, no one's learnin the score >> The never ending spree of death and *** and hate >> Is gonna tie your own rope" >> -'Come Out And Play', The Offspring >> > This evening I had an online race at Watkins Glen, with 13 other >> > people. One guy was making constant laps of 59:xx. >> > I wanted to know how he did this, so after a lap or 3 I quit the race >> > and watched him. And I saw very strange things. >> > At allmost every corner, he drove into the grass, and his engine made >> > such high rpm's that I thought his engine would blow immediately. He >> > then dissappeared completely, and a second later he was on the track, >> > at a perfect line, and further ahead than he would have been normally. >> > The first time I thought it could be a warping problem. But it >> > happened at EVERY corner. Other people started to watch him too, and >> > also noticed this. The guy drove on and on, constantly driving 59:xx >> > laps. According to his braking points and driving style he normally >> > would drive in the 1:06 - 1:07 zone. >> > Perhaps it wasn't cheating, and it was a warping problem, but after >> > everyone who watched him started to wonder. Nobody had warping >> > problems during that race, and the 59:xx guy didn't jump left and >> > right on the track as normally seen with warping problems. >> > Anyone else saw something like this online? >> > Andre

Why don't you practice what you preach? As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I am. And as far as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are you still driving BUSCH? > Mike, > You are truely a total ***! > EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're always flamming

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> someone for something. > And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did it to me last > week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He comes across as > some kind of expert, but he's probably just some wannabe.....". BTW - I > really did drive there with the SCCA. > Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute instead of being

a

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> jerk all the time? > >> So Andre was right and it WAS cheating! > >Please post the facts to back up the accusation, or would that be too

much > >to ask? > >> > My bet - someone's figured out GPL's online code really good and has a > >bot > >> > that makes it look sorta like its warping, but just moves it really far > >> > ahead on the track...which would explain why they were all 59:xx's and

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> >not a > >> > 1:00:xx or a 58:xx in there too much. > >> > -- > >> > Kirk Lane > >> > ICQ: 28171652 > >> > BRT #187 > >> > "It goes down the same as a thousand before > >> > No one's gettin' smarter, no one's learnin the score > >> > The never ending spree of death and *** and hate > >> > Is gonna tie your own rope" > >> > -'Come Out And Play', The Offspring > >> > > This evening I had an online race at Watkins Glen, with 13 other > >> > > people. One guy was making constant laps of 59:xx. > >> > > I wanted to know how he did this, so after a lap or 3 I quit the

race > >> > > and watched him. And I saw very strange things. > >> > > At allmost every corner, he drove into the grass, and his engine made > >> > > such high rpm's that I thought his engine would blow immediately. He > >> > > then dissappeared completely, and a second later he was on the track, > >> > > at a perfect line, and further ahead than he would have been > normally. > >> > > The first time I thought it could be a warping problem. But it > >> > > happened at EVERY corner. Other people started to watch him too, and > >> > > also noticed this. The guy drove on and on, constantly driving 59:xx

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> >> > > laps. According to his braking points and driving style he normally > >> > > would drive in the 1:06 - 1:07 zone. > >> > > Perhaps it wasn't cheating, and it was a warping problem, but after > >> > > everyone who watched him started to wonder. Nobody had warping > >> > > problems during that race, and the 59:xx guy didn't jump left and > >> > > right on the track as normally seen with warping problems. > >> > > Anyone else saw something like this online? > >> > > Andre

>that Remco was right, > I am always right! (and SO modest <g>) BTW, to my knowledge isn't it common for that server that it put "***" in chatlines, that is done by the driver himself. After reading his posts on this newsgroup, I've to assume Mr Adams was clarifying that he isn't a cheat, but a ***.... Remco

Your every post only proves my point.

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>Why don't you practice what you preach? >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I am. And as far >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are you still >driving BUSCH? >> Mike, >> You are truely a total ***! >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're always >flamming >> someone for something. >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did it to me

last >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He comes across as >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some wannabe.....". BTW - I >> really did drive there with the SCCA. >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute instead of being >a >> jerk all the time?

Nope, I just didn't feel I owed anyone an explanation, because their mind was ALREADY made up. And the posts here about cheating, prove it. > >It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT! > Okay, I believe you. But, based on your reaction just after the race, and > those since, I'd have to say you're the jerk here. > Kurt

Indeed this wasn't clear since he didn't state this before. So using the word jerk in this case clearly shows who really is the jerk here. By the way, what nickname do you use Mike? Since the guy I watched yesterday had a different name... Andre >: It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT! >My apologies. This was not clear. >Stephen

Andre, I actually like the idea that you think you have done some great detective work, and found a cheater. Keep up the good work. As for my nick? You already know it. Good day.

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> Indeed this wasn't clear since he didn't state this before. So using > the word jerk in this case clearly shows who really is the jerk here. > By the way, what nickname do you use Mike? Since the guy I watched > yesterday had a different name... > Andre > >: It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT! > >My apologies. This was not clear. > >Stephen

Indeed, we thought you were cheating, since we never saw this kind of warping before. It all seemed really strange. That's why we waited after the race to ask you (if it really was you) about this. We didn't SAY you were cheating, we THOUGHT this. Most people who would have seen the race yesterday would start to raise their eyebrows. It would only have been polite if you would have stayed and talked to us after the race, but you didn't. No wonder than that we all REALLY started to think there was a possibility of cheating involved here and we all got concerned? Andre

Like it was polite for you to start the thread: "GPL: Online cheating detected !" ? You said you detected it, NOT that there was a "possibility" of cheating. All I asked for, was you back up your accusation.

BURN THE WITCH, BURN THE WITCH!!!!!! And who might that witch be? Might it be mister Adams, mind you? Lighten up, maaaan! Use your mental energy to save the world instead of this crap. ---A---

Point! And a good one, too! ---A---

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> Hmm, if it was you, you're surely able to explain what "***" means, > aren't you? > Please tell me!!! > Crash > Mike Adams schrieb: > > It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT!

Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like being accused of cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it would be OK?? I was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a REAL driver. I was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved up, to a higher division? Good luck. > Your every post only proves my point. > >Why don't you practice what you preach? > >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I am. And as far

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> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are you still > >driving BUSCH? > >> Mike, > >> You are truely a total ***! > >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're always > >flamming > >> someone for something. > >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did it to me > last > >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He comes across > as > >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some wannabe.....". BTW -

I > >> really did drive there with the SCCA. > >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute instead of > being > >a > >> jerk all the time?

It seems,according to the other posts, that most people find you a jerk. But I think you're really funny :) You keep up the good work too! Andre

<G> AAARGGHHHH!!!! WHAT DOES *** MEAN FOR GOD'S SAKE???? Andre

Mike, Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made today? You continue to prove my point with evey one. >Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like being accused of >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it would be OK?? I >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a REAL driver. I

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>was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved up, to a >higher division? Good luck. >> Your every post only proves my point. >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I am. And as >far >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are you still >> >driving BUSCH? >> >> Mike, >> >> You are truely a total ***! >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're always >> >flamming >> >> someone for something. >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did it to me >> last >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He comes

across

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>> as >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some wannabe.....". BTW - >I >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute instead of >> being >> >a >> >> jerk all the time?

What have any of YOUR posts got to do with the topic? And by the way, Douglas, it was not sarcasm. I am impressed that a pro racer can take time out of his busy schedule, to post in this newsgroup. Hope you have a long, safe, and successful career, as a REAL racer. I just hope no one accuses you of cheating, WITHOUT any facts. But maybe, it would not bother you, would it? > Mike, > Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made today? You continue

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> to prove my point with evey one. > >Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like being accused of > >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it would be OK?? I > >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a REAL driver. > I > >was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved up, to a > >higher division? Good luck. > >> Your every post only proves my point. > >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I am. And

as

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> >far > >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are you still > >> >driving BUSCH? > >> >> Mike, > >> >> You are truely a total ***! > >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're always > >> >flamming > >> >> someone for something. > >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did it to

me > >> last > >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He comes > across > >> as > >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some wannabe.....". BTW -

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> >I > >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. > >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute instead of > >> being > >> >a > >> >> jerk all the time?

So it's a compliment after all! To be called something many of us love so much :P (a scalp?) --- Antti Markus Peteri 15 miles. your dim light shines from so far away - Soul Asylum, Promises Broken

Well i'm not an expert on online GPL and so this thread raised a few questions for me... How does warping work ? I was under the impression that the clients periodically report the position and speed (maybe some more data) to the server which in turn informs the other players. Between those updates the other players' positions are estimated by their last positions and speed. On the next update all cars are "warped" to their actual location. However i do not understand how this could lead to consistant faster/slower laps, since the physics are calculated on the clients side so the total racing time should be correct right ? (i.e. if you were doing 10 1:00 laps your total time should be 10:00 allthough some laps may be reported as 0:55 and others as 1:05). So unless the client runs on a different time base the race results should not be affected by warping. If that is how warping works - how could the described effect (consistant 0:59 laps) be a result of warping? And if warping or connection trouble might cause this effect aren't online races pointless then? It would be interesting to know what the guy's (Mike ?) lap times were on the client side (his PC). Enlighten me plz... anyone ? ;-) Martin

Ok, I'm going to say it one more time. This will be the third time I say this to you today, so read carefully, and try to remember it, so you won't post messages like these over and over again: Pay attention now Mike, I know it's hard for you, but try it: I - SHOULD - HAVE - SAID - ' POSSIBLE - ONLINE - CHEATING - DETECTED' In my post itself I meade VERY clear that we suspected it, that we had no proof, and that it possibly could be a warping problem. Did you get it this time? Ok, now please stop posting, it's becoming a little bit annoying now. Andre

>Well i'm not an expert on online GPL and so this thread raised a few >questions for me... >How does warping work ? Suppose I've a speed of 10Mtr/second...then you'll know that I am 10 meters further 1 second from now. If I don't tell you were I am 1 second later, then you've to assume that I am 10 meters away. So, if the packet doesn't reach the server, the server does an estimation about where you are. And in some cases, it will be a very wrong assumption, and that's what we call a warp. (In reallity we're warping all the time, we just don't notice it as such) In this case, however, it is a combination. It is the bad connection of the client to the server AND the fact that the clock of the client and the server aren't synchronized. The client will notice a lot of red in the S-bar. This particular server is known to be running slow sometimes. (After 67 seconds are past, this server is still at 59 seconds) When the connection is bad the clock synchronizing doesn't happen correct, resulting in incorrect times. Remco

> You bet your ass I would, if you accused me of something, without the facts. > Hey Andre, you must have lots of free time on your hands, if you can sit > around, and watch someone turn laps, online. He didn't accuse YOU of anything.... I didn't see your name mentioned anywhere in his original post. This crack is totally out of place. -Please lose the attitude.

It sure looks sarcastic to me. And your attitude continues to prove my point.

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>What have any of YOUR posts got to do with the topic? And by the way, >Douglas, it was not sarcasm. I am impressed that a pro racer can take time >out of his busy schedule, to post in this newsgroup. Hope you have a long, >safe, and successful career, as a REAL racer. I just hope no one accuses >you of cheating, WITHOUT any facts. But maybe, it would not bother you, >would it? >> Mike, >> Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made today? You >continue >> to prove my point with evey one. >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like being accused of >> >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it would be OK??

I >> >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a REAL driver.

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>> I >> >was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved up, to a >> >higher division? Good luck. >> >> Your every post only proves my point. >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? >> >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I am. And >as >> >far >> >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are you

still

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>> >> >driving BUSCH? >> >> >> Mike, >> >> >> You are truely a total ***! >> >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're always >> >> >flamming >> >> >> someone for something. >> >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did it to >me >> >> last >> >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He comes >> across >> >> as >> >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some wannabe.....". > BTW - >> >I >> >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. >> >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute instead

of >> >> being >> >> >a >> >> >> jerk all the time?

Jeez, I guess I missed the part about you saying, you were sorry. See how the subject can be misleading?

Douglas, Imagine I'm at Hooters, sipping a Bud, and watching a race , and see you zip across the screen, in your racecar. I can now look at everyone , and tell them I have chatted with you via the internet. Boy they will probably want to know all kinds of things about you. Please give me some of your past stats, and current plans, so I might pass the info along. :o) You tend to look at ribbing, and see what you want to see. I would guess that you take life a little to serious. You have not posted anything in this thread, but your off topic dribble. Like I said before, I wish you great success in your racing endeavors, and hope you never get accused of cheating. If you can't handle that, then maybe I could tell you I hope you DO NOT qualify for your next race. Now would that make you feel better? Of course not, just like you would not want to be accused of cheating when you are not guilty. I have however, made my LAST online GPL race. . Mike

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> It sure looks sarcastic to me. And your attitude continues to prove my > point. > >What have any of YOUR posts got to do with the topic? And by the way, > >Douglas, it was not sarcasm. I am impressed that a pro racer can take

time > >out of his busy schedule, to post in this newsgroup. Hope you have a long,

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> >safe, and successful career, as a REAL racer. I just hope no one accuses > >you of cheating, WITHOUT any facts. But maybe, it would not bother you, > >would it? > >> Mike, > >> Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made today? You > >continue > >> to prove my point with evey one.

of

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> >> >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it would be OK?? > I > >> >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a REAL > driver. > >> I > >> >was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved up, to a > >> >higher division? Good luck. > >> >> Your every post only proves my point. > >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? > >> >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I am.

And

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> >as > >> >far > >> >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are you > still > >> >> >driving BUSCH? > >> >> >> Mike, > >> >> >> You are truely a total ***! > >> >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're

always > >> >> >flamming > >> >> >> someone for something. > >> >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did it to

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> >me > >> >> last > >> >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He comes > >> across > >> >> as > >> >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some wannabe.....". > > BTW - > >> >I > >> >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. > >> >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute instead > of > >> >> being > >> >> >a > >> >> >> jerk all the time?

Mike, Mike, Mike, You still don't get my point; "EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive." Those facts stand for themselves. As for the rest of your spew; I can take a little ribbing, but what you spew isn't ribbing to me or anybody else. >Douglas, >Imagine I'm at Hooters, sipping a Bud, and watching a race , and see you zip

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>across the screen, in your racecar. I can now look at everyone , and tell >them I have chatted with you via the internet. Boy they will probably want >to know all kinds of things about you. Please give me some of your past >stats, and current plans, so I might pass the info along. :o) >You tend to look at ribbing, and see what you want to see. I would guess >that you take life a little to serious. You have not posted anything in >this thread, but your off topic dribble. >Like I said before, I wish you great success in your racing endeavors, and >hope you never get accused of cheating. If you can't handle that, then >maybe I could tell you I hope you DO NOT qualify for your next race. Now >would that make you feel better? Of course not, just like you would not >want to be accused of cheating when you are not guilty. I have however, >made my LAST online GPL race. . >Mike >> It sure looks sarcastic to me. And your attitude continues to prove my >> point. >> >What have any of YOUR posts got to do with the topic? And by the way, >> >Douglas, it was not sarcasm. I am impressed that a pro racer can take >time >> >out of his busy schedule, to post in this newsgroup. Hope you have a >long, >> >safe, and successful career, as a REAL racer. I just hope no one

accuses

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>> >you of cheating, WITHOUT any facts. But maybe, it would not bother you, >> >would it? >> >> Mike, >> >> Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made today? You >> >continue >> >> to prove my point with evey one. >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like being accused >of >> >> >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it would be

OK?? >> I >> >> >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a REAL >> driver. >> >> I >> >> >was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved up, to a

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>> >> >higher division? Good luck. >> >> >> Your every post only proves my point. >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? >> >> >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I am. >And >> >as >> >> >far >> >> >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are you >> still >> >> >> >driving BUSCH? >> >> >> >> Mike, >> >> >> >> You are truely a total ***! >> >> >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're >always >> >> >> >flamming >> >> >> >> someone for something. >> >> >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did it >to >> >me >> >> >> last >> >> >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He comes >> >> across >> >> >> as >> >> >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some wannabe.....". >> > BTW - >> >> >I >> >> >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. >> >> >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute

instead >> of >> >> >> being >> >> >> >a >> >> >> >> jerk all the time?

Douglas, I wish you great sucess in all of your racing endeavors. I still hope you never get accused of cheating.

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> Mike, Mike, Mike, You still don't get my point; "EVERY post I've ever seen > from you has been negitive." Those facts stand for themselves. As for the > rest of your spew; I can take a little ribbing, but what you spew isn't > ribbing to me or anybody else. > >Douglas, > >Imagine I'm at Hooters, sipping a Bud, and watching a race , and see you > zip > >across the screen, in your racecar. I can now look at everyone , and

tell > >them I have chatted with you via the internet. Boy they will probably want

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> >to know all kinds of things about you. Please give me some of your past > >stats, and current plans, so I might pass the info along. :o) > >You tend to look at ribbing, and see what you want to see. I would guess > >that you take life a little to serious. You have not posted anything in > >this thread, but your off topic dribble. > >Like I said before, I wish you great success in your racing endeavors,

and

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> >hope you never get accused of cheating. If you can't handle that, then > >maybe I could tell you I hope you DO NOT qualify for your next race. Now > >would that make you feel better? Of course not, just like you would not > >want to be accused of cheating when you are not guilty. I have however, > >made my LAST online GPL race. . > >Mike > >> It sure looks sarcastic to me. And your attitude continues to prove my > >> point. > >> >Douglas, it was not sarcasm. I am impressed that a pro racer can take > >time > >> >out of his busy schedule, to post in this newsgroup. Hope you have a > >long, > >> >safe, and successful career, as a REAL racer. I just hope no one > accuses > >> >you of cheating, WITHOUT any facts. But maybe, it would not bother

you,

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> >> >would it? > >> >> Mike, > >> >> Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made today? You > >> >continue > >> >> to prove my point with evey one. > >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like being

accused

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> >of > >> >> >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it would be > OK?? > >> I > >> >> >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a REAL > >> driver. > >> >> I > >> >> >was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved up,

to

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> a > >> >> >higher division? Good luck. > >> >> >> Your every post only proves my point. > >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? > >> >> >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I am. > >And > >> >as > >> >> >far > >> >> >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are you > >> still > >> >> >> >driving BUSCH? > >> >> >> >> Mike, > >> >> >> >> You are truely a total ***! > >> >> >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're > >always > >> >> >> >flamming > >> >> >> >> someone for something. > >> >> >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did

it > >to > >> >me > >> >> >> last > >> >> >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He comes > >> >> across > >> >> >> as > >> >> >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some wannabe.....".

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> >> > BTW - > >> >> >I > >> >> >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. > >> >> >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute > instead > >> of > >> >> >> being > >> >> >> >a > >> >> >> >> jerk all the time?

One thing which nobody's mentioned which they probably should have: If you (or any online racer) is warping so badly that they consistently log 59.xx laps, and consistently disappear from other player's screen for extended moments at a time, only to appear erratically somewhere else on (or off) the track.... AND the driver who was experiencing the warping KNEW ABOUT IT (high LAT's are a pretty good indicator of this), then there's one thing to say: ---- GET THE *** OFF THE SERVER!! ---- (sorry for being blunt!) Granted, it has been noted that one particular server was especially prone to contributing to these erratic warps, but as I understand it, it was only ONE driver(Mike Adams owned up to it being him..) who was warping so noticeably that the other drivers actually stopped racing to watch the live action from the replay area to see what was going on. Now also as I understand it, this has happened on more than one occasion?? Was this you as well, Mr. Adams? The answer is irrelevant, except for the point that as a common courtesy to your fellow drivers, and most likely to improve the enjoyment of online racing yourself -- if you are knowingly warping this badly (a LAT-check will most likely show that you have a high-latency connection, or poor quality connection.. or worse yet: both)... then you should not continue to attempt to race whilst the problem persists. I say "attempt to race" because 1) with an extraordinary lap time of 59.xx seconds, you will gain pole-position without merit; 2) other drivers will not be able to pass you without extreme difficulty due to not knowing where you are on the track(due to erratic "vanishing" acts!); and 3) because every driver participating in an online race could benefit from the bandwidth that you are using on the server if you were to realize that your presence is causing problems and disconnect when you become aware of it. Now the question remains, Mike(as you admitted that the problem directly affected you)-- why are you experiencing these horrid warps? - What kind of connection do you have - dialup, cable, xDSL? - Is your computer low on memory; are you running GPL with other apps running in the background (which may hog the system memory, slowing packets sends to the GPL server)? - Is the problem consistent, or do you get LAT's of .200 or less on other servers? ... etc, etc Don't take offense to what I've said above -- the original poster (and the others that had observed your odd behaviour) suspected cheating possibly because the warping was so extreme, and your attitude (***) didn't indicate that you cared that you were warping and affecting the enjoyment of GPL online for others. R. Hashana - When you knowingly are warping badly, what LAT values are you getting?

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> >Well i'm not an expert on online GPL and so this thread raised a few > >questions for me... > >How does warping work ? > Suppose I've a speed of 10Mtr/second...then you'll know that I am > 10 meters further 1 second from now. If I don't tell you were I am 1 > second later, then you've to assume that I am 10 meters away. > So, if the packet doesn't reach the server, the server does an > estimation about where you are. And in some cases, it will be a very > wrong assumption, and that's what we call a warp. (In reallity we're > warping all the time, we just don't notice it as such) > In this case, however, it is a combination. It is the bad connection > of the client to the server AND the fact that the clock of the client > and the server aren't synchronized. The client will notice a lot of > red in the S-bar. This particular server is known to be running slow > sometimes. (After 67 seconds are past, this server is still at 59 > seconds) > When the connection is bad the clock synchronizing doesn't happen > correct, resulting in incorrect times. > Remco

If it came from you or someone like you - I'd consider the source and move on. My conscience is clean.

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>Douglas, I wish you great sucess in all of your racing endeavors. I still >hope you never get accused of cheating. >> Mike, Mike, Mike, You still don't get my point; "EVERY post I've ever

seen >> from you has been negitive." Those facts stand for themselves. As for the

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>> rest of your spew; I can take a little ribbing, but what you spew isn't >> ribbing to me or anybody else. >> >Douglas, >> >Imagine I'm at Hooters, sipping a Bud, and watching a race , and see you >> zip >> >across the screen, in your racecar. I can now look at everyone , and >tell >> >them I have chatted with you via the internet. Boy they will probably >want >> >to know all kinds of things about you. Please give me some of your past >> >stats, and current plans, so I might pass the info along. :o) >> >You tend to look at ribbing, and see what you want to see. I would

guess

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>> >that you take life a little to serious. You have not posted anything in >> >this thread, but your off topic dribble. >> >Like I said before, I wish you great success in your racing endeavors, >and >> >hope you never get accused of cheating. If you can't handle that, then >> >maybe I could tell you I hope you DO NOT qualify for your next race.

Now >> >would that make you feel better? Of course not, just like you would not

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>> >want to be accused of cheating when you are not guilty. I have however, >> >made my LAST online GPL race. . >> >Mike >> >> It sure looks sarcastic to me. And your attitude continues to prove my >> >> point. >> >> >What have any of YOUR posts got to do with the topic? And by the

way, >> >> >Douglas, it was not sarcasm. I am impressed that a pro racer can take

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>> >time >> >> >out of his busy schedule, to post in this newsgroup. Hope you have a >> >long, >> >> >safe, and successful career, as a REAL racer. I just hope no one >> accuses >> >> >you of cheating, WITHOUT any facts. But maybe, it would not bother >you, >> >> >would it? >> >> >> Mike, >> >> >> Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made today? You >> >> >continue >> >> >> to prove my point with evey one. >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like being >accused >> >of >> >> >> >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it would be >> OK?? >> >> I >> >> >> >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a REAL >> >> driver. >> >> >> I >> >> >> >was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved up, >to >> a >> >> >> >higher division? Good luck. >> >> >> >> Your every post only proves my point. >> >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? >> >> >> >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I am. >> >And >> >> >as >> >> >> >far >> >> >> >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are

you

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>> >> still >> >> >> >> >driving BUSCH? >> >> >> >> >> Mike, >> >> >> >> >> You are truely a total ***! >> >> >> >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. You're >> >always >> >> >> >> >flamming >> >> >> >> >> someone for something. >> >> >> >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did >it >> >to >> >> >me >> >> >> >> last >> >> >> >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He >comes >> >> >> across >> >> >> >> as >> >> >> >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some >wannabe.....". >> >> > BTW - >> >> >> >I >> >> >> >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. >> >> >> >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute >> instead >> >> of >> >> >> >> being >> >> >> >> >a >> >> >> >> >> jerk all the time?

<snip> I startrted having the erratic problems when I went to a cable modem last month. I have decided after all that was said and done, I will no longer race online, because anything I do out of the unusual, may be contrued as cheating. I have other obligations as well. I was originally trying to make a point that "false accusatins", could have people pointing the finger, when it should not be pointed. Andre may need to do a little soul searching, after this, and it might just make him think before he fills in a subject line. Like you said they "suspected" cheating, but the original subject stated, cheating "detected". Andre and the others detected nothing, they just assumed. Don't you think there is a difference? Good day, Mike

I wasn't there so I don't know what happened. But, are you capable of running consistent 59 second laps at the Glen? Or where the lap times different on your end than on the server? I can see that happening for one lap, but consistently, lap after lap?? Tell us what happened. glen

Now Douglas, I try and be nice, and what do I get? Sarcasm, from the preacher, no less! :o) > If it came from you or someone like you - I'd consider the source and move > on. My conscience is clean. > >Douglas, I wish you great sucess in all of your racing endeavors. I still

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> >hope you never get accused of cheating. > >> Mike, Mike, Mike, You still don't get my point; "EVERY post I've ever > seen > >> from you has been negitive." Those facts stand for themselves. As for > the > >> rest of your spew; I can take a little ribbing, but what you spew isn't > >> ribbing to me or anybody else. > >> >Imagine I'm at Hooters, sipping a Bud, and watching a race , and see

you > >> zip > >> >across the screen, in your racecar. I can now look at everyone , and > >tell > >> >them I have chatted with you via the internet. Boy they will probably > >want > >> >to know all kinds of things about you. Please give me some of your past > >> >stats, and current plans, so I might pass the info along. :o) > >> >You tend to look at ribbing, and see what you want to see. I would > guess > >> >that you take life a little to serious. You have not posted anything in > >> >this thread, but your off topic dribble. > >> >Like I said before, I wish you great success in your racing endeavors, > >and > >> >hope you never get accused of cheating. If you can't handle that, then > >> >maybe I could tell you I hope you DO NOT qualify for your next race. > Now > >> >would that make you feel better? Of course not, just like you would > not > >> >want to be accused of cheating when you are not guilty. I have however, > >> >made my LAST online GPL race. . > >> >Mike > >> >> It sure looks sarcastic to me. And your attitude continues to prove my

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> >> >> point. > >> >> >What have any of YOUR posts got to do with the topic? And by the > way, > >> >> >Douglas, it was not sarcasm. I am impressed that a pro racer can > take > >> >time > >> >> >out of his busy schedule, to post in this newsgroup. Hope you have

a

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> >> >long, > >> >> >safe, and successful career, as a REAL racer. I just hope no one > >> accuses > >> >> >you of cheating, WITHOUT any facts. But maybe, it would not bother > >you, > >> >> >would it? > >> >> >> Mike, > >> >> >> Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made today?

You

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> >> >> >continue > >> >> >> to prove my point with evey one. > >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like being > >accused > >> >of > >> >> >> >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it would

be > >> OK?? > >> >> I > >> >> >> >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a REAL > >> >> driver. > >> >> >> I > >> >> >> >was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved up,

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> >to > >> a > >> >> >> >higher division? Good luck. > >> >> >> >> Your every post only proves my point. > >> >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? > >> >> >> >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I

am.

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> >> >And > >> >> >as > >> >> >> >far > >> >> >> >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are > you > >> >> still > >> >> >> >> >driving BUSCH? > >> >> >> >> >> Mike, > >> >> >> >> >> You are truely a total ***! > >> >> >> >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive.

You're > >> >always > >> >> >> >> >flamming > >> >> >> >> >> someone for something. > >> >> >> >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You did

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> >it > >> >to > >> >> >me > >> >> >> >> last > >> >> >> >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He > >comes > >> >> >> across > >> >> >> >> as > >> >> >> >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some > >wannabe.....". > >> >> > BTW - > >> >> >> >I > >> >> >> >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. > >> >> >> >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute > >> instead > >> >> of > >> >> >> >> being > >> >> >> >> >a > >> >> >> >> >> jerk all the time?

: subject line. Like you said they "suspected" cheating, but the original : subject stated, cheating "detected". Andre and the others detected nothing, : they just assumed. Don't you think there is a difference? Pedant. S.

No, stupid, the IS a difference between, suspected, and detected. Do not bother replying, I have nothing more to say on the matter. > : subject line. Like you said they "suspected" cheating, but the original > : subject stated, cheating "detected". Andre and the others detected nothing, > : they just assumed. Don't you think there is a difference? > Pedant. > S.

: No, stupid, the IS a difference between, suspected, and detected. Do not : bother replying, I have nothing more to say on the matter. You're being pedantic because you are hung up on the four word subject line, instead of the very objective message that it headed. It's a shame you let these little details get to you. Do you iron your underpants? Stephen :> : subject line. Like you said they "suspected" cheating, but the original :> : subject stated, cheating "detected". Andre and the others detected : nothing, :> : they just assumed. Don't you think there is a difference? :> :> Pedant. :> :> S. :> :>

It's too bad some people have never heard of email. They insist on having their private pissing matches here in public. The original question was: "If someone is running consistent 59 second laps and they appear to be cutting corners at full speed, how are they doing this? Or why is this happening?". Nobody has even attempted to answer the question. Just alot of "Did not!", "Did so!", "Did not!", "Did so!". etc.

Other NF Asgeir <G> You don't get points in here, you get a pint ............... of the victim's ***. Mark

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> Point! And a good one, too! > ---A--- > > Hmm, if it was you, you're surely able to explain what "***" means, > > aren't you? > > Please tell me!!! > > Crash > > Mike Adams schrieb: > > > It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT!

Hey guys, thanks for making this an extremely entertaining monday night. BTW, which server was it again? I'm still trying to get under 1:05 :-) MS

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> >that Remco was right, > > I am always right! (and SO modest <g>) > BTW, to my knowledge isn't it common for that server that it > put "***" in chatlines, that is done by the driver himself. After > reading his posts on this newsgroup, I've to assume Mr Adams was > clarifying that he isn't a cheat, but a ***.... > Remco

Urgh. It's a Russian armpit <G> MS

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> > "A *** is a hairy part of a woman ;-)" > So it's a compliment after all! > To be called something many of us love so much :P > (a scalp?) > --- > Antti Markus Peteri > 15 miles. your dim light shines from so far away > - Soul Asylum, Promises Broken

I have however, made my LAST online GPL race. . Mike Finally some progress in this thread! Larry Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

There you go proving my original point again! Let's see.... playing nice...OK I'll start. Mike, I appoligize for calling you an *** and a jerk. >Now Douglas, I try and be nice, and what do I get? Sarcasm, from the >preacher, no less! :o) >> If it came from you or someone like you - I'd consider the source and move

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>> on. My conscience is clean. >> >Douglas, I wish you great sucess in all of your racing endeavors. I >still >> >hope you never get accused of cheating. >> >> Mike, Mike, Mike, You still don't get my point; "EVERY post I've ever >> seen >> >> from you has been negitive." Those facts stand for themselves. As for >> the >> >> rest of your spew; I can take a little ribbing, but what you spew

isn't

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>> >> ribbing to me or anybody else. >> >> >Douglas, >> >> >Imagine I'm at Hooters, sipping a Bud, and watching a race , and see >you >> >> zip >> >> >across the screen, in your racecar. I can now look at everyone , and >> >tell >> >> >them I have chatted with you via the internet. Boy they will

probably

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>> >want >> >> >to know all kinds of things about you. Please give me some of your >past >> >> >stats, and current plans, so I might pass the info along. :o) >> >> >You tend to look at ribbing, and see what you want to see. I would >> guess >> >> >that you take life a little to serious. You have not posted anything >in >> >> >this thread, but your off topic dribble. >> >> >Like I said before, I wish you great success in your racing

endeavors,

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>> >and >> >> >hope you never get accused of cheating. If you can't handle that, >then >> >> >maybe I could tell you I hope you DO NOT qualify for your next race. >> Now >> >> >would that make you feel better? Of course not, just like you would >> not >> >> >want to be accused of cheating when you are not guilty. I have >however, >> >> >made my LAST online GPL race. . >> >> >Mike >> >> >> It sure looks sarcastic to me. And your attitude continues to prove >my >> >> >> point. >> >> >> >What have any of YOUR posts got to do with the topic? And by the >> way, >> >> >> >Douglas, it was not sarcasm. I am impressed that a pro racer can >> take >> >> >time >> >> >> >out of his busy schedule, to post in this newsgroup. Hope you

have >a >> >> >long, >> >> >> >safe, and successful career, as a REAL racer. I just hope no one >> >> accuses >> >> >> >you of cheating, WITHOUT any facts. But maybe, it would not bother

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>> >you, >> >> >> >would it? >> >> >> >> Mike, >> >> >> >> Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made today? >You >> >> >> >continue >> >> >> >> to prove my point with evey one. >> >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like being >> >accused >> >> >of >> >> >> >> >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it would >be >> >> OK?? >> >> >> I >> >> >> >> >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a >REAL >> >> >> driver. >> >> >> >> I >> >> >> >> >was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved >up, >> >to >> >> a >> >> >> >> >higher division? Good luck. >> >> >> >> >> Your every post only proves my point. >> >> >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? >> >> >> >> >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really I >am. >> >> >And >> >> >> >as >> >> >> >> >far >> >> >> >> >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are >> you >> >> >> still >> >> >> >> >> >driving BUSCH?

message

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>> >> >> >> >> >> Mike, >> >> >> >> >> >> You are truely a total ***! >> >> >> >> >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. >You're >> >> >always >> >> >> >> >> >flamming >> >> >> >> >> >> someone for something. >> >> >> >> >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You >did >> >it >> >> >to >> >> >> >me >> >> >> >> >> last >> >> >> >> >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? "He >> >comes >> >> >> >> across >> >> >> >> >> as >> >> >> >> >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some >> >wannabe.....". >> >> >> > BTW - >> >> >> >> >I >> >> >> >> >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. >> >> >> >> >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and contiribute >> >> instead >> >> >> of >> >> >> >> >> being >> >> >> >> >> >a >> >> >> >> >> >> jerk all the time?

Yeah, I was in that race, Andre. From in car, as I accelerated down back straight after the loop, I saw his Eagle appear in my mirrors probably some 10 car lengths back. Within a couple of seconds his car then blinked out from my mirrors and then reappeared directly in front of me on my racing line about 1 car length ahead. I had been trying to read the chat messages whilst racing and had noticed that some guys thought he must be cheating in some way so when this happened it just confirmed it for me and I thought "Right, this guys for it!". So, as he started braking just after the speed trap, I just rear-ended him. Couldn't help myself.<g> -- Peter Ives (AKA Ivington)

Why Douglas, thank you, for being so nice. I accept. I would never cuss at anyone, though. It's not my nature, as you can tell from previous posts. I usually leave that up to the children, here. <G> Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:807diq$npv$[email hidden]...

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> There you go proving my original point again! > Let's see.... playing nice...OK I'll start. > Mike, > I appoligize for calling you an asshole and a jerk. > Mike Adams > wrote in message <8079u2$[email hidden]>... > >Now Douglas, I try and be nice, and what do I get? Sarcasm, from the > >preacher, no less! :o) > >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:8078tn$on0$[email hidden]... > >> If it came from you or someone like you - I'd consider the source and > move > >> on. My conscience is clean. > >> Mike Adams > wrote in message

<8077tk$[email hidden]>... > >still > >> >hope you never get accused of cheating. > >> >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> >news:8077ft$j0r$[email hidden]... > >> >> Mike, Mike, Mike, You still don't get my point; "EVERY post I've ever > >> seen > >> >> from you has been negitive." Those facts stand for themselves. As for

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> >> the > >> >> rest of your spew; I can take a little ribbing, but what you spew > isn't > >> >> ribbing to me or anybody else. > >> >> Mike Adams > wrote in message > ><8075no$[email hidden]>... > >> >> >Douglas, > >> >> >Imagine I'm at Hooters, sipping a Bud, and watching a race , and

see > >you > >> >> zip > >> >> >across the screen, in your racecar. I can now look at everyone , and

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> >> >tell > >> >> >them I have chatted with you via the internet. Boy they will > probably > >> >want > >> >> >to know all kinds of things about you. Please give me some of your > >past > >> >> >stats, and current plans, so I might pass the info along. :o) > >> >> >You tend to look at ribbing, and see what you want to see. I would > >> guess > >> >> >that you take life a little to serious. You have not posted

anything

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> >in > >> >> >this thread, but your off topic dribble. > >> >> >Like I said before, I wish you great success in your racing > endeavors, > >> >and > >> >> >hope you never get accused of cheating. If you can't handle that, > >then > >> >> >maybe I could tell you I hope you DO NOT qualify for your next

race. > >> Now > >> >> >would that make you feel better? Of course not, just like you would

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> >> not > >> >> >want to be accused of cheating when you are not guilty. I have > >however, > >> >> >made my LAST online GPL race. . > >> >> >Mike > >> >> >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> >> >news:80751m$alq$[email hidden]... > >> >> >> It sure looks sarcastic to me. And your attitude continues to

prove > >my > >> >> >> point. > >> >> >> Mike Adams > wrote in message > >> ><80701b$[email hidden]>... > >> >> >> >What have any of YOUR posts got to do with the topic? And by the > >> way, > >> >> >> >Douglas, it was not sarcasm. I am impressed that a pro racer can

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> >> take > >> >> >time > >> >> >> >out of his busy schedule, to post in this newsgroup. Hope you > have > >a > >> >> >long, > >> >> >> >safe, and successful career, as a REAL racer. I just hope no

one

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> >> >> accuses > >> >> >> >you of cheating, WITHOUT any facts. But maybe, it would not > bother > >> >you, > >> >> >> >would it? > >> >> >> >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> >> >> >news:806ve1$chh$[email hidden]... > >> >> >> >> Mike, > >> >> >> >> Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made

today?

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> >You > >> >> >> >continue > >> >> >> >> to prove my point with evey one. > >> >> >> >> Mike Adams > wrote in message > >> >> ><806tii$[email hidden]>... > >> >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like being > >> >accused > >> >> >of > >> >> >> >> >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it

would

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> >be > >> >> OK?? > >> >> >> I > >> >> >> >> >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were a > >REAL > >> >> >> driver. > >> >> >> >> I > >> >> >> >> >was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved > >up, > >> >to > >> >> a > >> >> >> >> >higher division? Good luck. > >> >> >> >> >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> >> >> >> >news:806spr$mkm$[email hidden]... > >> >> >> >> >> Your every post only proves my point. > >> >> >> >> >> Mike Adams > wrote in message > >> >> >> ><806sci$[email hidden]>... > >> >> >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? > >> >> >> >> >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed, really

I > >am. > >> >> >And > >> >> >> >as > >> >> >> >> >far > >> >> >> >> >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or are

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> >> you > >> >> >> still > >> >> >> >> >> >driving BUSCH? > >> >> >> >> >> >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in > message > >> >> >> >> >> >news:806rav$hmv$[email hidden]... > >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike, > >> >> >> >> >> >> You are truely a total asshole! > >> >> >> >> >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. > >You're > >> >> >always > >> >> >> >> >> >flamming > >> >> >> >> >> >> someone for something. > >> >> >> >> >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing.... You > >did > >> >it > >> >> >to > >> >> >> >me > >> >> >> >> >> last > >> >> >> >> >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember?

"He

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> >> >comes > >> >> >> >> across > >> >> >> >> >> as > >> >> >> >> >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some > >> >wannabe.....". > >> >> >> > BTW - > >> >> >> >> >I > >> >> >> >> >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. > >> >> >> >> >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and

contiribute > >> >> instead > >> >> >> of > >> >> >> >> >> being > >> >> >> >> >> >a > >> >> >> >> >> >> jerk all the time?

Also Antti; Dont forget that "the human male spends 9 months ah' slammin' & a bangin' to get out & then the rest of his life trying to get back in!!!" *Words by: George Jetson & his son Elroy & his daughter Judi*...........Cheers All Thom_j.

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> > "A *** is a hairy part of a woman ;-)" > So it's a compliment after all! > To be called something many of us love so much :P > (a scalp?) > --- > Antti Markus Peteri > 15 miles. your dim light shines from so far away > - Soul Asylum, Promises Broken

Sebastien; I am sorry but U R wrong!! Not if it's shaved!!! ;O)

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> >Well i'm not an expert on online GPL and so this thread raised a few > >questions for me... > >How does warping work ? > Suppose I've a speed of 10Mtr/second...then you'll know that I am > 10 meters further 1 second from now. If I don't tell you were I am 1 > second later, then you've to assume that I am 10 meters away. > So, if the packet doesn't reach the server, the server does an > estimation about where you are. And in some cases, it will be a very > wrong assumption, and that's what we call a warp. (In reallity we're > warping all the time, we just don't notice it as such)

That was my understanding as well. So this is some sort of design flaw in GPL then... that it will run at different speeds at different systems. I mean 1:36 should be 1:36 on all systems (give or take a few 0.1s maybe). But such an out of sync event shows that the system speed is not the case. (Someone does 1:04 laps on his system but actually takes 0:59 of "real time" on the other systems - that's at least 5 secs !!) In this case online races are meaningless aren't they? Was this behaviour introduced with the latest patch? Thanks for you response. Regards Martin

Hello Mike; This isnt a flame, accusation nor a negative question! Honestly, How many posts have you made today and how much time have you spent doing all these? I'm very interested & please email me directly if you prefer not to post. *tia* Cheers Thom_j. em: [email hidden] Mike Adams <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:807drk$ppt$[email hidden]... > Why Douglas, thank you, for being so nice. I accept. I would never cuss at > anyone, though. It's not my nature, as you can tell from previous posts. I

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> usually leave that up to the children, here. <G> > Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:807diq$npv$[email hidden]... > > There you go proving my original point again! > > Let's see.... playing nice...OK I'll start. > > Mike, > > I appoligize for calling you an asshole and a jerk. > > Mike Adams > wrote in message <8079u2$[email hidden]>... > > >Now Douglas, I try and be nice, and what do I get? Sarcasm, from the > > >preacher, no less! :o) > > >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:8078tn$on0$[email hidden]... > > >> If it came from you or someone like you - I'd consider the source and > > move > > >> on. My conscience is clean. > > >> Mike Adams > wrote in message > <8077tk$[email hidden]>... > > >> >Douglas, I wish you great sucess in all of your racing endeavors. I > > >still > > >> >hope you never get accused of cheating. > > >> >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >> >news:8077ft$j0r$[email hidden]... > > >> >> Mike, Mike, Mike, You still don't get my point; "EVERY post I've > ever > > >> seen > > >> >> from you has been negitive." Those facts stand for themselves. As > for > > >> the > > >> >> rest of your spew; I can take a little ribbing, but what you spew > > isn't > > >> >> ribbing to me or anybody else. > > >> >> Mike Adams > wrote in message > > ><8075no$[email hidden]>... > > >> >> >Douglas, > > >> >> >Imagine I'm at Hooters, sipping a Bud, and watching a race , and > see > > >you > > >> >> zip > > >> >> >across the screen, in your racecar. I can now look at everyone , > and > > >> >tell > > >> >> >them I have chatted with you via the internet. Boy they will > > probably > > >> >want > > >> >> >to know all kinds of things about you. Please give me some of

your > > >past > > >> >> >stats, and current plans, so I might pass the info along. :o) > > >> >> >You tend to look at ribbing, and see what you want to see. I would

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> > >> guess > > >> >> >that you take life a little to serious. You have not posted > anything > > >in > > >> >> >this thread, but your off topic dribble. > > >> >> >Like I said before, I wish you great success in your racing > > endeavors, > > >> >and > > >> >> >hope you never get accused of cheating. If you can't handle

that,

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> > >then > > >> >> >maybe I could tell you I hope you DO NOT qualify for your next > race. > > >> Now > > >> >> >would that make you feel better? Of course not, just like you > would > > >> not > > >> >> >want to be accused of cheating when you are not guilty. I have > > >however, > > >> >> >made my LAST online GPL race. . > > >> >> >Mike > > >> >> >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >> >> >news:80751m$alq$[email hidden]... > > >> >> >> It sure looks sarcastic to me. And your attitude continues to > prove > > >my > > >> >> >> point. > > >> >> >> Mike Adams > wrote in message > > >> ><80701b$[email hidden]>... > > >> >> >> >What have any of YOUR posts got to do with the topic? And by > the > > >> way, > > >> >> >> >Douglas, it was not sarcasm. I am impressed that a pro racer > can > > >> take > > >> >> >time > > >> >> >> >out of his busy schedule, to post in this newsgroup. Hope you > > have > > >a > > >> >> >long, > > >> >> >> >safe, and successful career, as a REAL racer. I just hope no > one > > >> >> accuses > > >> >> >> >you of cheating, WITHOUT any facts. But maybe, it would not > > bother > > >> >you, > > >> >> >> >would it? > > >> >> >> >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >> >> >> >news:806ve1$chh$[email hidden]... > > >> >> >> >> Mike, > > >> >> >> >> Your sarcasm is lost on me. How many posts have you made > today? > > >You > > >> >> >> >continue > > >> >> >> >> to prove my point with evey one. > > >> >> >> >> Mike Adams > wrote in message > > >> >> ><806tii$[email hidden]>... > > >> >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? I DO NOT like

being

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> > >> >accused > > >> >> >of > > >> >> >> >> >cheating. I guess if someone accused you of cheating it > would > > >be > > >> >> OK?? > > >> >> >> I > > >> >> >> >> >was not flaming you. I said I was impressed that you were

a > > >REAL > > >> >> >> driver. > > >> >> >> >> I > > >> >> >> >> >was being sincere. I honestly was wondering if you had moved > > >up, > > >> >to > > >> >> a > > >> >> >> >> >higher division? Good luck. > > >> >> >> >> >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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> > >> >> >> >> >news:806spr$mkm$[email hidden]... > > >> >> >> >> >> Your every post only proves my point. > > >> >> >> >> >> Mike Adams > wrote in message > > >> >> >> ><806sci$[email hidden]>... > > >> >> >> >> >> >Why don't you practice what you preach? > > >> >> >> >> >> >As far as you driving in SCCA, I'm very impressed,

really

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> I > > >am. > > >> >> >And > > >> >> >> >as > > >> >> >> >> >far > > >> >> >> >> >> >as you being a wannabe? Have you moved up to WC yet, or > are > > >> you > > >> >> >> still > > >> >> >> >> >> >driving BUSCH? > > >> >> >> >> >> >Douglas Sharpe <[email hidden]> wrote in > > message > > >> >> >> >> >> >news:806rav$hmv$[email hidden]... > > >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike, > > >> >> >> >> >> >> You are truely a total asshole! > > >> >> >> >> >> >> EVERY post I've ever seen from you has been negitive. > > >You're > > >> >> >always > > >> >> >> >> >> >flamming > > >> >> >> >> >> >> someone for something. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> And talk about getting your facts before spewing....

You

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> > >did > > >> >it > > >> >> >to > > >> >> >> >me > > >> >> >> >> >> last > > >> >> >> >> >> >> week about NL and the AI line at Riverside, remember? > "He > > >> >comes > > >> >> >> >> across > > >> >> >> >> >> as > > >> >> >> >> >> >> some kind of expert, but he's probably just some > > >> >wannabe.....". > > >> >> >> > BTW - > > >> >> >> >> >I > > >> >> >> >> >> >> really did drive there with the SCCA. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> Why don't you grow up, learn some manners and > contiribute > > >> >> instead > > >> >> >> of > > >> >> >> >> >> being > > >> >> >> >> >> >a > > >> >> >> >> >> >> jerk all the time?

>>It WAS me, you jerk, and NO, I DO NOT CHEAT! Mike, there's an easy way to shut these guys up, just post a replay of 10 back to back 59.xx laps in the binaries group. It would certainly make you my hero, and all your accusers would look like fools. You can do that can't you Mike ? -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

You're waaaaay to young for that pal! At least all of this was good for something :) Ok, that was not nice of me, sorry. There's no need to quit online racing, as long as you try to behave normally. That means being just a little bit polite to other people, and a little bit less agressive. You'll see that other people will be friendly to you too! Really! See ya online I hope, Andre

A little soul searching? You're telling me? WHAT??? Andre

Andre, You don't owe this brat an apology. Your original post was VERY clear on what happened, what you all thought of the lap times and the way he exited the race so suddenly. I really thought your subject line was catchy and it certainly got my attention :) Just let him grow up ... he'll realize that this kind of hostile attitude won't get him very far in life. Hena

Steve Ferguson Here in America this is called Clintonic. Change the subject of the argument by painting yourself as the victim of a witch hunt, and everyone quickly forgets the original objective.

Hello Thom, nice to see you could drag yourself away from racing long enough to let everyone know that you are still alive. Now for my two cents worth, (for which everyone has been waiting with eager anticipation), Andre asked what I thought was some very sincere and legitimate questions. Only to be *flamed* for making 'false accusations'. Wouldn't it have been easier to have just simply offered the simple explanaition of what had happened and avoided all the mud slinging? I don't think Andre was wrong. And I think Mike over reacted for someone who was innocent of the crime for which he was not even accused. It would have ended a long time ago without all the hurt feelings that way. Now, let's sit back and let Thom mediate this matter and he can issue his arbitration decision, (and seriously I would accept that without question), and that will be the end of the matter. Take care of your tires and they will take care of you! >Hello Mike; This isnt a flame, accusation nor a negative question! >Honestly, How many posts have you made today and how much >time have you spent doing all these? I'm very interested & please >email me directly if you prefer not to post. *tia* Cheers Thom_j. WarriorSpirit

You said that before Mike. Andre

Quote: "ANYTHING I DO OUT OF THE UNUSUAL...." ??? Wait a second, Mike. Is it the cable modem (as you stated at the top of the paragraph), or was it due to something (you do out of the) "unusual"?? This sounds like an admission of guilt to the cheating charge. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt... and let's deal with the bad cable connection for now: - There should be no legitimate reason that you can't get a decent quality connection on your Mindspring account, I'm assuming. At least, if it was me... I would be wanting to figure out the reason why I persistently got crappy connections. You pay good money to Mindspring for the service, right? If the problem is on their end, and because of this, you are <forced> to "no longer race online" (due to the horrid warps, and ill-feelings from the others that are trying to racing against you).. then I'd be trying to get my money back off the damn quick (you've only been with them a month) - otherwise, I'd be examining the system on my end to determine what the problem (and related solution(s) may be). Here's a thought: did you change your CORE.INI file settings to reflect the fact that you are using a cable modem?? Not sure what exactly needs to be changed, but I'm sure it's in the README.txt file... or at worst, you could either ask here on the group for assistance, or search on Dejanews. I'm not sure why I'm trying to help you, after seeing your attitude here on the group and from the *** comment you admitted you made on the GPL server, but I guess if you're a real racing fan (you obviously like GPL, and I know you're big on NASCAR), then you shouldn't feel forced to sit out on online racing for whatever reason. Get the connection problem sorted out, enjoy the racing, have fun.... and BE POLITE (otherwise when you get banned from a server... all of the above will have been for nothing!) R. Hashana

> Here in America this is called Clintonic. Change the subject of the > argument by painting yourself as the victim of a witch hunt, and > everyone quickly forgets the original objective. LOL! Good one, Tracey!! -- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

You know Hena, I once had a situation like this before. I had an argument with someone, I made a post stating my opinion, and when I read my own post again after an hour or so, I thought that I was a little bit too harsh. I made an apology, the other guy did too, and now we mail and race each other very often. It's a shame that some people are so narrow-minded, so agressive. Andre

> Uhhh... Steve, what does '***!!!' mean? *** has a different meaning here in the UK depending where you are from? If you are from up North, it is a very severe form of swearing, and refers to the female ***s. But if you are from down South, it is a fairly harmless form of swearing, meaning you are stupid, or foolish. 8-) *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html [address restored]

>So this is some sort of design flaw in GPL then... that it will run >at different speeds at different systems. No, it isn't a design flaw IMO. GPL has to work with the hardware it is installed on, it doesn't have a timer of its own <g> I believe this particular server is a low spec Pentium, which is running day after day. We all know Windows isn't the most stable OS to run a program on for a long time, maybe there is some resource leak which causes the problem. And don't forget, every PC is running at a different speed. Most of the time the difference is very small, sometimes the gap is somewhat larger, through several reasons....(overclocking anyone?) Remco

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>>Let's ignore this thread until people have cooled and than look at what >>happened again. With all this flaming we'll never know the truth. >It's too bad some people have never heard of email. They insist on having >their private pissing matches here in public. >The original question was: "If someone is running consistent 59 second laps and >they appear to be cutting corners at full speed, how are they doing this? Or >why is this happening?". >Nobody has even attempted to answer the question.

Errr, I believe I did.... Remco

Hello all, After all the flaming in this thread we seem to have little in the way of facts to go on. So here is some speculation. Perhapes the problem is something as simple as the sync method being different. If the different users are using dissimilar sync settings combined with a flaky connection or bandwidth setting errors could cause this. I believe a similar phenomena took place early on after 1.1 was released. The sync bug made the same thing happen until everyone set the core.ini to sync method = 0. Maybe this is the same problem? Larry Heir

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> >So this is some sort of design flaw in GPL then... that it will run > >at different speeds at different systems. > No, it isn't a design flaw IMO. GPL has to work with the hardware > it is installed on, it doesn't have a timer of its own <g> > I believe this particular server is a low spec Pentium, which is > running day after day. We all know Windows isn't the most stable > OS to run a program on for a long time, maybe there is some resource > leak which causes the problem. > And don't forget, every PC is running at a different speed. Most of > the time the difference is very small, sometimes the gap is somewhat > larger, through several reasons....(overclocking anyone?) > Remco

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Man O man! Do I wish that was me.... Just once I'd like to stomp the comp like that. Just once... -- Mark Jeangerard www.soundchaserweb.com New Mexico USA

Would that Clinton had thought that dodge up! Cast yer eyes back about 13 yrs., fellers (or 27 yrs for that matter!) cheers! -DK

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> > Here in America this is called Clintonic. Change the subject of the > > argument by painting yourself as the victim of a witch hunt, and > > everyone quickly forgets the original objective. > LOL! Good one, Tracey!! > -- > Bob Curtin > Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange > http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, > baggy skin"

IIRC, the laps were 59 sec EXACTLY, every time. That's a pretty weird(and consistent) warp...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> >So this is some sort of design flaw in GPL then... that it will run > >at different speeds at different systems. > No, it isn't a design flaw IMO. GPL has to work with the hardware > it is installed on, it doesn't have a timer of its own <g> Well i'd call it a design flaw since in online races the times should be comparable.... and if one client does a 1:04+ lap in 59 secs (or all others run those 1:04+ laps in 1:10) then it is anything but comparable don't you think. Besides the hardware timer is pretty much the same on all systems. Actaully i don't think it's the server because then all clients would have had incredible times. That is if the server clock is slow and thinks 1:04 is 59 secs then this is true for all clients. Sure but that's why the programs run at different frame rates on different systems but IMHO if the game tells you that your lap time was 2:30 it should actually take about 2:30 real world time to do such a lap (or at least the offset should be the same on all systems). That is of course unless somebody starts messing around with the system timers which is some sort of cheating. I'm not talking about overclocking - usually the software makes up for those modifications - otherwise your windows time would be off all the time. Anybody knows how the syncronization is actually done in GPL ? Can it cause the clients to run the game faster/slower than real time ? One more thing - Is it possible to modify the cars grip ? In that case i'd understand why the server thinks that the car runs into the grass on every corner - but due to the increased grip it is able to make it and is warped back on the track - ahead of the others.... just an idea. Martin

Shut up Jens <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Lets make a poll !!! Jens --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Andre, I'm sure we all (except M.A.) got your point. No need for further explanations. Just forget this idiot, who's blaming others for impoliteness but isn't capable of bringing out one single polite sentence himself. See you Jens BTW: How does that killfile-thingie work??? BTW2: IMO anybody who races online and achieves unrealistic short laptimes due to server-hickup, but doesn't quit by himself IS CHEATING >Yes, it was too prematurely, but indeed I was very concerned about >this. <snipped a lot of wellmeant but needless explanations>> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

MA, trying to save your ass??? Nobody believes you Jens <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Is that a promise? Jens <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Me too!! I already stated in another thread: If he uses this server-failure or whatsoever to win, he IS CHEATING. If he doesn't know about common WG-laptimes or that we should drive on the tarmac, he's an idiot. Jens >Damn, too late Jan, now Mike's onto you too! :))) >Andre --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

LOL Jens --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Shut up !! Nobody is interested in your *** Jens <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

Wash your mouth Jens >No, stupid, the IS a difference between, suspected, and detected. Do not <snip> --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

<snip> Oh, come on Mike, go back online to prove us all wrong. Or have you got something to hide? -- Peter Ives (AKA Ivington)