N3 - Completely Un-Enjoyable at this point

Sorry...but I do think GPL is the Messia of Racing Sims. I had to go there. And I agree with you, N3 is a big dissapointment. Robert Hull, Qubec

This may ruffle some feathers here, but... At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable at this point, but borderline defective. At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the top grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc... I am no longer impressed by the AI. 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, and a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3. What _is_ it with that car wobble? 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file restarts actually work. 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. Some of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of time. I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball and going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the answer, though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we really need to push for. 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow down my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no where. This is a new problem with N3. There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing Sims, so don't even go there... Thany you :) -Larry

me too Rob... GPL is the the best :-) --Dave PS -- It's ok if it's not the best in some people's book... I just really love it. The only sim I'm not bored with after a month or two. -- Dave Schwabe "If you're in control, you're not going fast enough" -- Parnelli Jones The Aussie Toad -- GPL Brabham Page http://users.wi.net/~schwabe > Sorry...but I do think GPL is the Messia of Racing Sims. I had to go there. > And I agree with you, N3 is a big dissapointment. > Robert > Hull, Qubec > > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable at > > this point, but borderline defective. > > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so > > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the top > > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc... > I > > am no longer impressed by the AI. > > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, > and > > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3. > > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file > restarts > > actually work. > > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. Some > > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... > > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of > time. > > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball > and > > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the > answer, > > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > > really need to push for. > > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it > > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow down > > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a > > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the > > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked > > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no > > where. This is a new problem with N3. > > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing > Sims, > > so don't even go there... > > Thany you :) > > -Larry

Agreeing with much of what you say is like criticizing an old and dear friend, but I can't help myself. To my mind, the worst part is the fight-for-every-inch-of-track-position mentality of the AI, no matter what the point in the race. I am clearly faster than some cars, and in the hundreds of WC races I have watched, deep-in-the-pack drivers routinely give way to faster cars, especially early in the race. Not everyone drives like #3 going for the front in the final ten--except in N3, where everyone will block you and insanely cut you off at every opportunity (on 100%). This is like an EA hockey or soccer game, where defenders swoop out of nowhere and mark you on every inch of your progress. The fluttering and swerving, which I had originally thought was an attempt to capture what happens when you take the air off the spoiler of the car in front of you, now just appears to be a bug, plain and simple. Sad, very sad.

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> This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable at > this point, but borderline defective. > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the top > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc... I > am no longer impressed by the AI. > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, and > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3. > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file restarts > actually work. > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. Some > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of time. > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball and > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the answer, > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > really need to push for. > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow down > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no > where. This is a new problem with N3. > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing Sims, > so don't even go there... > Thany you :) > -Larry

Been playing N3 for months? I thought it came out only a month or so ago, reminds me of a guys that said hed been playin GPL for more than a year, and that was 6 months ago.............anyway I dont like N3 Its total boredom for me. GPL is so alive in comparison (to anything for that matter). Larry a crit dans le message ...

I think the AI are pushovers.

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> Agreeing with much of what you say is like criticizing an old and dear > friend, but I can't help myself. To my mind, the worst part is the > fight-for-every-inch-of-track-position mentality of the AI, no matter > what the point in the race. I am clearly faster than some cars, and in > the hundreds of WC races I have watched, deep-in-the-pack drivers > routinely give way to faster cars, especially early in the race. Not > everyone drives like #3 going for the front in the final ten--except in > N3, where everyone will block you and insanely cut you off at every > opportunity (on 100%). This is like an EA hockey or soccer game, where > defenders swoop out of nowhere and mark you on every inch of your > progress. The fluttering and swerving, which I had originally thought > was an attempt to capture what happens when you take the air off the > spoiler of the car in front of you, now just appears to be a bug, plain > and simple. Sad, very sad. > > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable

at

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> > this point, but borderline defective. > > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so > > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the

top > > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc... I > > am no longer impressed by the AI. > > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, and > > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3. > > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file restarts > > actually work. > > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. Some > > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... > > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of time. > > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball and > > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the answer, > > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > > really need to push for. > > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it > > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow down > > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a > > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the > > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked

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> > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no > > where. This is a new problem with N3. > > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing

Sims, > > so don't even go there... > > Thany you :) > > -Larry

>Been playing N3 for months? I thought it came out only a month or so ago, I think it came out closer to two months ago. I've been playing GPL for a year and a half. That's including the countless hours with the demo that came out Easter '98. I think GPL came out more than a year ago. Agreed, and agreed. In terms of feeling connected to the road, the only thing that compares to GPL for me is GP2, and maybe Viper. I agree there, not impressed by the N3 FF at all. I think it's due to the simplistic physics of N2/N3 compared to GPL. The data to create great FF just isn't there the way it is in GPL. -- Pat Dotson

Exactly why I did not buy NASCAR Legends. They cheapo' ed out and hired a bunch of East Block Countries engineers and Techs. Look at the credits at the end. Junk!!!! Crash

Oh give me a break. It has been 2 months,or thereabouts. If you have something useful to contribute, fine. Otherwise, keep your wise ass comments to yourself please. -Larry

I have no intention of buying it because I am not into that era of racing :-) Plus it is probably just N3 with 1969 cars. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Then crank the AI setting above 85% :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

I haven't had the above problem at all. In fact the swerving down thing you describe is seen many times in a real race as drivers "slam the door". I thought that was one improvement :-) I don't have this problem at all. But then again I have the same CPU and RAM with a 12MB Voodoo2 card. It could make a difference. I think the graphics and speed are superb. What FF wheel do you have? It could be affecting your framerate. I agree. I am not exactly buying the "maxed out AI" excuse either. At first I thought it was cool because the AI was trying to block you and dart in front of you. But the more I look at it, it seems like defective programming :-) No kidding. This is especially gauling since the problem was there in N2/NR1999. They never even tried to fix it IMHO. N3 just added support for FF wheels and better graphics. I'm sorry to say I haven't done multiplayer at all yet. But from what I hear it is not that great. My "racin buddy" has N3 but we haven't tried online yet. I think we are both hesitant about the TCP/IP only multiplay option. What we want it to do modem/modem play just like N2/NR1999. This used to be a blast. Now by forcing us to use our ISP connection and do a TCP/IP race is a total hassle. And when we do try it, it better work just like N2/NR1999. As you probably know, I am about the only one here that really likes the FF in N3. I don't have any latency problems or other problems. Everything is solid and smooth, and you can really feel when you good buddy slams into you. I especially like the bump you feel as you get close to the rear bumper of the car in front of you. IMHO this is what Nascar racing is all about :-) I can also feel the front tires losing grip in turns. The sensation is light but it is definately there. Remember the Winston Cup cars have power steering. Bummer. Well I agree with about 50% of your issues with N3 :-) About 2 months ago I wrote a N3 review and submitted it to CGW. They apparently don't want it so I will probably post it here shortly :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

<no.spam.email.for.me> says...

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>>Exactly why I did not buy NASCAR Legends. >>They cheapo' ed out and hired a bunch of East Block Countries >>engineers and Techs. Look at the credits at the end. >I have no intention of buying it because I am not into that >era of racing :-) >Plus it is probably just N3 with 1969 cars.

If presented with a GPL-engine based Nascar sim, would you say that you wouldn't buy it because it's nothing more than GPL with stock cars? Because that's really what you're saying. Nascar Legends is an N3-engine based sim with older stock cars, different tracks, and different handling characteristics. It's got appeal for folks that want something that's the same, yet different -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html Super X Philes http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

A nascar sim based on the GPL engine would be cool. Oh my apologies :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

I assure you N3 will be a HUGE success. The game is excellent. If you think N3 is crap, donate your copy to someone who will enjoy it and go back to GPL. Many of us don't think it's crap, we understand that it doesn't have the GPL engine, and we knew this before we bought it. We enjoy Nascar racing, and currently N3 is the best in the business. Personally, I like the vastly improved graphics and graphics performance, the improved AI, and the slightly improved physics. I think it was worth every penny I paid for it. Papy has done an amazing job here. They really have. I guess you missed: 1. The highly upraded, and much smarter, AI. 2. The vastly improved sounds. 3. Graphics that the older versions can't compare to. 4. Video performance that completely blows away the previous versions. 5. Online play that, while certainly not TEN quality, is very well integrated and easy to use. IMHO, Nascar Racing 3 is the _first_ upgraded release of the series since the first N2 that can truly be called an upgrade. This is no whimpy Nascar 1999. This is an honest-to-goodness upgrade that improves nearly every facet of the simulation. Graphics --------- I simply have to start here. This version brings Nascar Revolution Eye-Candy, without the down-side. There simply is NO down-side. I have every single option turned on and set to it's highest setting. 1024X768. 16 Bit Color. Full 40 car field, with all cars visible front and back. All sounds set to their best quality. All textures on. Full track visibility. Absolutely everything turned on at it's highest setting. I had absolutely no frame-rate problems at all. Most amazing, I had NO popup's at all. Not at any track I tested, including Talladega and Bristol, the two worst tracks for this sort of thing. The translucent smoke and persistant skid-marks are really cool. Even more important, I had no frame-rate 'clogs' during periods of heavy smoke. The realism of the smoke and skids is really something. If you get behind someone with a smoking tire or engine, it actually hinders your visibility just like it should. If there is a big pile-up, you drive into a blinding floating cloud of smoke, just like you should. I cannot overstate how impressed I am with the quality, realism, and performance of the graphics. Papy has done what is seemingly impossible here. Personally, I think this is the simulation that future games will be measured against when it comes to graphics quality, realism and most importantly performance. I can deal with the 2D Cockpit. It is such a huge improvement over N2/99 that I don't care there aren't shadows on the gauges from the needles. Even the mirrors work right now! Finally :) Mental note - I'm a registered NRHQ user... Must check the web site for an update that works with N3. Physics ------- No bones about it. There is a huge improvement here as well. While it is the N2 engine, it is not the _same_ N2 engine. The handling of the car is much more realistic to me. Changes in setup work like you think they will (finally). A couple of things I notice that I've never seen before. First, if you tap a car in the rear quarter, you aren't automatically spun out like you tended to be in N2. N2 would snap-spin you in a heartbeat. N3 will make your car react much like you would expect it to. Anything from a mild bobble, to a full spin. Speaking of bobble's, the car's do it now. Instead of just 'wiggling' when you tap them, you can see realistic body roll along with the wiggle. Secondly, it's interesting to watch the relationship of the cars compared to the painted lines on the track. If a car is loose, you can actually _see_ that it is loose. The rear of the car will visibly be drifted out further from the line than the front of the car. The little whif of smoke you see from tires is a good indication as well :) In N2/99, the cars were always square to the line as they went around the track, whether they were loose or not. There was more attention to detail here than I expected, and I think most will be very happy with the improvements in the physics. Oh, the realistic 'tire hop' when accellerating from a stand-still and spinning the tires is pretty cool too :) AI -- Wow! For the first time, it feels like you are actually racing skilled drivers instead of brain-dead robots! It's funny, but Dale Earnhardt did a tap-and-pass on me at Bristol in one race. LOL :) The drivers draft properly. They will take advantage of _any_ mis-step you have. They don't come down on you in the corners like they did in NR1999. This was actually quite horrible in NR1999. Even worse than N2, IMHO. This has been nearly completely corrected in N3. I actually did some FOUR wide racing at Talladega. As long as _you_ are up to it, _they_ are up to it. These guys really race with some good old fashioned common sense now. Well, most of the time. I did have one bone-head at Dega come from the outer lane and swerve down in front of me to enter the pits. It happens in real racing, so I guess it's part of the deal :) I could swear I got bump-drafted once at Dega... Sound ------ I don't have 3D sound, but the sounds in N3 are much, much improved. It actually sounds like a race car now. Tire squeel, impacts, etc... all sound much like the real thing now. You can actually hear squeel's leading up to impacts :) Installation, etc... ----------------- No issues here. It plays without the CD!!! Interface --------- Plenty familiar, but improved. I like it. Force-Feedback ----------------- It feels a little weak to me. However, I suspect there is a setting buried somewhere that will eventually be uncovered to tweak this. Why don't game manufacturer's supply customized profile files for the most popular wheels/joysticks, such as the MSFFW and others? Other than the somewhat-weak Force-Feedback, I find it hard to complain about this game. It is the _first_ Nxxx upgrade since the original N2 that I feel good about paying for. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ynSZ3.135$[email hidden]... > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable at > this point, but borderline defective. > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the top > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc... I > am no longer impressed by the AI. > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, and > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3. > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file restarts > actually work. > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. Some > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of time. > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball and > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the answer, > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > really need to push for. > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow down > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no > where. This is a new problem with N3. > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing Sims, > so don't even go there... > Thany you :) > -Larry

Pardon my ingnorance, but what is "Messia"? Do you mean "Mecca"? Or, do you mean "messiah"? Sorry, this kinda threw me. Wayne Templin

Legends is a blast. Yes, it is based on N3, but the cars seem different, very different to drive. Tire wear is very different, you've got to really drive these cars with finesse to keep from eating your tires up too quickly. I started a Legends league, the SNLL ( Saturday Night Legends League), with a group of about 15 guys from another league. We have raced Alabama and Michigan so far, and have had a blast. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends > > Exactly why I did not buy NASCAR Legends. > > They cheapo' ed out and hired a bunch of East Block Countries engineers > and > > Techs. Look at the credits at the end. > I have no intention of buying it because I am not into that era of racing > :-) > Plus it is probably just N3 with 1969 cars. > -- > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > > Junk!!!! > > Crash

So, why dont you buy quake or something and leave us alone bye bye now!

Double file restarts umm do work! Doh!

BULLSHIT!!! You must have not played the game that much. -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

> If presented with a GPL-engine based Nascar sim, would you say that you > wouldn't buy it because it's nothing more than GPL with stock cars? > Because that's really what you're saying. The GPL engine is superior to the ancient Indycar engine they're still using in the NASCAR Racing series. That would be the difference. -- -------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten http://members.xoom.com/morganv/ --------------------------------

Certainly is... Definitely I have a similar system, but haven't witnessed any problems. What the f*ck is a weebles wobble? Car wobble, sure. The AI sucks. Ancient game engine. They seem to work sometimes. I don't bother with it anymore. Lowsy connection, clock zaps, bad drivers (including myself sometimes ;). F*ck yeah! I need to complain directly to Papy about this. Impossible to run a race without something happening. Like me about to bump another car to the side and instead my car winds up sliding *into* the other car. Hello? Papy? Duh... Wouldn't dare. I won't because I happend to agree... -- -------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten http://members.xoom.com/morganv/ --------------------------------

"Larry" wrote LMAO! Larry, those were your words verbatim. Everything in my post was cut and pasted from one of your many posts in which you bashed anyone that dared to criticize N3. Don't you recognize your own writing? Surely this part should have sounded familiar:

Not gonna ruffle my feathers. I agree in full. Then they try and patch the thing and now you can't play online at all LMAO. I still don't know why they don't acknowledge and FIX the frame rate stutter in the turns. This has been a problem that has been well documented since the days of N2 and it is still around. Can you say inefficient, outdated graphics engine maybe. IMHO until they totally trash this thing and start from square one using some cutting edge tecnologies to draw to the screen then this is gonna be about as good as we will ever see. Why can't the guys at ID games(the Quake engine) or or Epic Megagames/Digital Extremes (the Unreal engine) get into making racing sims LOL. That would be something to see.

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> This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable at > this point, but borderline defective. > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the top > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc... I > am no longer impressed by the AI. > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, and > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3. > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file restarts > actually work. > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. Some > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of time. > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball and > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the answer, > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > really need to push for. > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow down > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no > where. This is a new problem with N3. > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing Sims, > so don't even go there... > Thany you :) > -Larry

Only 50% Greg? :) As for the video, I also have a Voodoo II 12MB. It's not as good as the TNT2. The wheel is an MSFFW. It's not the wheel. It's the FF effects in the game. They just arent that good. To me :) Nothing like Viper or GPL. -Larry > > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable at

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> > this point, but borderline defective. > > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so > > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the

top > > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc...

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> I > > am no longer impressed by the AI. > I haven't had the above problem at all. In fact the swerving down thing > you describe is seen many times in a real race as drivers "slam the > door". I thought that was one improvement :-) > > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, > and > > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > I don't have this problem at all. But then again I have the same CPU and > RAM with a 12MB Voodoo2 card. It could make a difference. I think the > graphics and speed are superb. What FF wheel do you have? It could be > affecting your framerate. > > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3. > > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > I agree. I am not exactly buying the "maxed out AI" excuse either. At > first I thought it was cool because the AI was trying to block you and > dart in front of you. But the more I look at it, it seems like defective > programming :-) > > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file > restarts > > actually work. > No kidding. This is especially gauling since the problem was there > in N2/NR1999. They never even tried to fix it IMHO. N3 just added > support for FF wheels and better graphics. > > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all.

Some

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> > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... > > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of > time. > > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball > and > > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the > answer, > > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > > really need to push for. > I'm sorry to say I haven't done multiplayer at all yet. But from what I

hear

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> it is not that great. My "racin buddy" has N3 but we haven't tried online > yet. > I think we are both hesitant about the TCP/IP only multiplay option. What > we want it to do modem/modem play just like N2/NR1999. This used > to be a blast. Now by forcing us to use our ISP connection and do a > TCP/IP race is a total hassle. And when we do try it, it better work just > like N2/NR1999. > > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it > > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow

down > > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > As you probably know, I am about the only one here that really likes the FF > in N3. I don't have any latency problems or other problems. Everything is > solid and smooth, and you can really feel when you good buddy slams into > you. I especially like the bump you feel as you get close to the rear bumper > of the car in front of you. IMHO this is what Nascar racing is all about :-) > I can also feel the front tires losing grip in turns. The sensation is light > but it is definately there. Remember the Winston Cup cars have power > steering. > > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a > > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the > > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked

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> > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no > > where. This is a new problem with N3. > Bummer. > > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing > Sims, > > so don't even go there... > > Thany you :) > Well I agree with about 50% of your issues with N3 :-) > About 2 months ago I wrote a N3 review and submitted it to CGW. They > apparently don't want it so I will probably post it here shortly :-) > -- > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com > > -Larry

Not for everyone. Doh! :) -Larry

I think you need to go back and re-read my post again... And, didn't I happen to mention at the end that while I have GPL, I don't think it's the greatest? N3 can certainly be the best in the business, and quite buggy at the same time. Which it is. -Larry "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:38383456$0$[email hidden]...

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> I assure you N3 will be a HUGE success. The game is excellent. > If you think N3 is crap, donate your copy to someone who will enjoy it > and > go back to GPL. > Many of us don't think it's crap, we understand that it doesn't have > the GPL > engine, and we knew this before we bought it. > We enjoy Nascar racing, and currently N3 is the best in the business. > Personally, I like the vastly improved graphics and graphics > performance, > the improved AI, and the slightly improved physics. I think it was > worth > every penny I paid for it. > Papy has done an amazing job here. They really have. > I guess you missed: > 1. The highly upraded, and much smarter, AI. > 2. The vastly improved sounds. > 3. Graphics that the older versions can't compare to. > 4. Video performance that completely blows away the previous > versions. > 5. Online play that, while certainly not TEN quality, is very well > integrated and easy to use. > IMHO, Nascar Racing 3 is the _first_ upgraded release of the series > since > the first N2 that can truly be called an upgrade. This is no whimpy > Nascar > 1999. This is an honest-to-goodness upgrade that improves nearly > every > facet of the simulation. > Graphics > --------- > I simply have to start here. This version brings Nascar Revolution > Eye-Candy, without the down-side. There simply is NO down-side. > I have every single option turned on and set to it's highest setting. > 1024X768. 16 Bit Color. Full 40 car field, with all cars visible > front and > back. All sounds set to their best quality. All textures on. Full > track > visibility. Absolutely everything turned on at it's highest setting. > I had absolutely no frame-rate problems at all. Most amazing, I had > NO > popup's at all. Not at any track I tested, including Talladega and > Bristol, > the two worst tracks for this sort of thing. > The translucent smoke and persistant skid-marks are really cool. Even > more > important, I had no frame-rate 'clogs' during periods of heavy smoke. > The realism of the smoke and skids is really something. If you get > behind > someone with a smoking tire or engine, it actually hinders your > visibility > just like it should. If there is a big pile-up, you drive into a > blinding > floating cloud of smoke, just like you should. > I cannot overstate how impressed I am with the quality, realism, and > performance of the graphics. Papy has done what is seemingly > impossible > here. > Personally, I think this is the simulation that future games will be > measured against when it comes to graphics quality, realism and most > importantly performance. > I can deal with the 2D Cockpit. It is such a huge improvement over > N2/99 > that I don't care there aren't shadows on the gauges from the needles. > Even > the mirrors work right now! Finally :) > Mental note - I'm a registered NRHQ user... Must check the web site > for an > update that works with N3. > Physics > ------- > No bones about it. There is a huge improvement here as well. While > it is > the N2 engine, it is not the _same_ N2 engine. The handling of the > car is > much more realistic to me. Changes in setup work like you think they > will > (finally). > A couple of things I notice that I've never seen before. First, if > you tap > a car in the rear quarter, you aren't automatically spun out like you > tended > to be in N2. N2 would snap-spin you in a heartbeat. N3 will make > your car > react much like you would expect it to. Anything from a mild bobble, > to a > full spin. > Speaking of bobble's, the car's do it now. Instead of just 'wiggling' > when > you tap them, you can see realistic body roll along with the wiggle. > Secondly, it's interesting to watch the relationship of the cars > compared to > the painted lines on the track. If a car is loose, you can actually > _see_ > that it is loose. The rear of the car will visibly be drifted out > further > from the line than the front of the car. The little whif of smoke you > see > from tires is a good indication as well :) In N2/99, the cars were > always > square to the line as they went around the track, whether they were > loose or > not. > There was more attention to detail here than I expected, and I think > most > will be very happy with the improvements in the physics. > Oh, the realistic 'tire hop' when accellerating from a stand-still and > spinning the tires is pretty cool too :) > AI > -- > Wow! > For the first time, it feels like you are actually racing skilled > drivers > instead of brain-dead robots! It's funny, but Dale Earnhardt did a > tap-and-pass on me at Bristol in one race. LOL :) > The drivers draft properly. They will take advantage of _any_ > mis-step you > have. They don't come down on you in the corners like they did in > NR1999. > This was actually quite horrible in NR1999. Even worse than N2, IMHO. > This > has been nearly completely corrected in N3. > I actually did some FOUR wide racing at Talladega. As long as _you_ > are up > to it, _they_ are up to it. These guys really race with some good old > fashioned common sense now. Well, most of the time. I did have one > bone-head at Dega come from the outer lane and swerve down in front of > me to > enter the pits. It happens in real racing, so I guess it's part of > the deal > :) > I could swear I got bump-drafted once at Dega... > Sound > ------ > I don't have 3D sound, but the sounds in N3 are much, much improved. > It > actually sounds like a race car now. Tire squeel, impacts, etc... all > sound > much like the real thing now. You can actually hear squeel's leading > up to > impacts :) > Installation, etc... > ----------------- > No issues here. > It plays without the CD!!! > Interface > --------- > Plenty familiar, but improved. I like it. > Force-Feedback > ----------------- > It feels a little weak to me. However, I suspect there is a setting > buried > somewhere that will eventually be uncovered to tweak this. > Why don't game manufacturer's supply customized profile files for the > most > popular wheels/joysticks, such as the MSFFW and others? > Other than the somewhat-weak Force-Feedback, I find it hard to > complain > about this game. It is the _first_ Nxxx upgrade since the original N2 > that > I feel good about paying for. > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ynSZ3.135$[email hidden]... > > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely > un-enjoyable at > > this point, but borderline defective. > > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after > so > > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from > the top > > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, > etc... I > > am no longer impressed by the AI. > > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 > Card, and > > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar > Racing 3. > > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file > restarts > > actually work. > > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. > Some > > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, > etc... > > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race > hosts > > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period > of time. > > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their > ball and > > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't > be > > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with > NROS. > > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the > answer, > > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what > we > > really need to push for. > > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I > think it > > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but > slow down > > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to > finish a > > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be > the > > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the > wrecked > > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and > go no > > where. This is a new problem with N3. > > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of > Racing Sims, > > so don't even go there... > > Thany you :) > > -Larry

Oh, one other thing. Did I mention anywhere that it was "Crap" Please don't put words in my mouth, Tracey. You really went out of your way to do that in your post. Again, re-read my post... -Larry "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:38383456$0$[email hidden]...

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> I assure you N3 will be a HUGE success. The game is excellent. > If you think N3 is crap, donate your copy to someone who will enjoy it > and > go back to GPL. > Many of us don't think it's crap, we understand that it doesn't have > the GPL > engine, and we knew this before we bought it. > We enjoy Nascar racing, and currently N3 is the best in the business. > Personally, I like the vastly improved graphics and graphics > performance, > the improved AI, and the slightly improved physics. I think it was > worth > every penny I paid for it. > Papy has done an amazing job here. They really have. > I guess you missed: > 1. The highly upraded, and much smarter, AI. > 2. The vastly improved sounds. > 3. Graphics that the older versions can't compare to. > 4. Video performance that completely blows away the previous > versions. > 5. Online play that, while certainly not TEN quality, is very well > integrated and easy to use. > IMHO, Nascar Racing 3 is the _first_ upgraded release of the series > since > the first N2 that can truly be called an upgrade. This is no whimpy > Nascar > 1999. This is an honest-to-goodness upgrade that improves nearly > every > facet of the simulation. > Graphics > --------- > I simply have to start here. This version brings Nascar Revolution > Eye-Candy, without the down-side. There simply is NO down-side. > I have every single option turned on and set to it's highest setting. > 1024X768. 16 Bit Color. Full 40 car field, with all cars visible > front and > back. All sounds set to their best quality. All textures on. Full > track > visibility. Absolutely everything turned on at it's highest setting. > I had absolutely no frame-rate problems at all. Most amazing, I had > NO > popup's at all. Not at any track I tested, including Talladega and > Bristol, > the two worst tracks for this sort of thing. > The translucent smoke and persistant skid-marks are really cool. Even > more > important, I had no frame-rate 'clogs' during periods of heavy smoke. > The realism of the smoke and skids is really something. If you get > behind > someone with a smoking tire or engine, it actually hinders your > visibility > just like it should. If there is a big pile-up, you drive into a > blinding > floating cloud of smoke, just like you should. > I cannot overstate how impressed I am with the quality, realism, and > performance of the graphics. Papy has done what is seemingly > impossible > here. > Personally, I think this is the simulation that future games will be > measured against when it comes to graphics quality, realism and most > importantly performance. > I can deal with the 2D Cockpit. It is such a huge improvement over > N2/99 > that I don't care there aren't shadows on the gauges from the needles. > Even > the mirrors work right now! Finally :) > Mental note - I'm a registered NRHQ user... Must check the web site > for an > update that works with N3. > Physics > ------- > No bones about it. There is a huge improvement here as well. While > it is > the N2 engine, it is not the _same_ N2 engine. The handling of the > car is > much more realistic to me. Changes in setup work like you think they > will > (finally). > A couple of things I notice that I've never seen before. First, if > you tap > a car in the rear quarter, you aren't automatically spun out like you > tended > to be in N2. N2 would snap-spin you in a heartbeat. N3 will make > your car > react much like you would expect it to. Anything from a mild bobble, > to a > full spin. > Speaking of bobble's, the car's do it now. Instead of just 'wiggling' > when > you tap them, you can see realistic body roll along with the wiggle. > Secondly, it's interesting to watch the relationship of the cars > compared to > the painted lines on the track. If a car is loose, you can actually > _see_ > that it is loose. The rear of the car will visibly be drifted out > further > from the line than the front of the car. The little whif of smoke you > see > from tires is a good indication as well :) In N2/99, the cars were > always > square to the line as they went around the track, whether they were > loose or > not. > There was more attention to detail here than I expected, and I think > most > will be very happy with the improvements in the physics. > Oh, the realistic 'tire hop' when accellerating from a stand-still and > spinning the tires is pretty cool too :) > AI > -- > Wow! > For the first time, it feels like you are actually racing skilled > drivers > instead of brain-dead robots! It's funny, but Dale Earnhardt did a > tap-and-pass on me at Bristol in one race. LOL :) > The drivers draft properly. They will take advantage of _any_ > mis-step you > have. They don't come down on you in the corners like they did in > NR1999. > This was actually quite horrible in NR1999. Even worse than N2, IMHO. > This > has been nearly completely corrected in N3. > I actually did some FOUR wide racing at Talladega. As long as _you_ > are up > to it, _they_ are up to it. These guys really race with some good old > fashioned common sense now. Well, most of the time. I did have one > bone-head at Dega come from the outer lane and swerve down in front of > me to > enter the pits. It happens in real racing, so I guess it's part of > the deal > :) > I could swear I got bump-drafted once at Dega... > Sound > ------ > I don't have 3D sound, but the sounds in N3 are much, much improved. > It > actually sounds like a race car now. Tire squeel, impacts, etc... all > sound > much like the real thing now. You can actually hear squeel's leading > up to > impacts :) > Installation, etc... > ----------------- > No issues here. > It plays without the CD!!! > Interface > --------- > Plenty familiar, but improved. I like it. > Force-Feedback > ----------------- > It feels a little weak to me. However, I suspect there is a setting > buried > somewhere that will eventually be uncovered to tweak this. > Why don't game manufacturer's supply customized profile files for the > most > popular wheels/joysticks, such as the MSFFW and others? > Other than the somewhat-weak Force-Feedback, I find it hard to > complain > about this game. It is the _first_ Nxxx upgrade since the original N2 > that > I feel good about paying for. > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ynSZ3.135$[email hidden]... > > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely > un-enjoyable at > > this point, but borderline defective. > > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after > so > > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from > the top > > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, > etc... I > > am no longer impressed by the AI. > > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 > Card, and > > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar > Racing 3. > > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file > restarts > > actually work. > > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. > Some > > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, > etc... > > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race > hosts > > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period > of time. > > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their > ball and > > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't > be > > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with > NROS. > > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the > answer, > > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what > we > > really need to push for. > > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I > think it > > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but > slow down > > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to > finish a > > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be > the > > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the > wrecked > > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and > go no > > where. This is a new problem with N3. > > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of > Racing Sims, > > so don't even go there... > > Thany you :) > > -Larry

Man, you just can't make any comments about anything around here any more, can you? Not even constructive one's :( -Larry

Erm... Maybee your absorbed in the good graphics of the game.. or you never drove n2/99 hard... its just the same. I remeber something like that from N99.. yes no? They ARE BULLSHIT.. That buggy wobble is so annoying, they move unbelievably unrealistic, maybee they are supernatural.. Sega rally 1 is an inspiration compared...

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> > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely > un-enjoyable at > > this point, but borderline defective. > > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after > so > > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from > the top > > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, > etc... I > > am no longer impressed by the AI. > > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 > Card, and > > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar > Racing 3. > > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file > restarts > > actually work. > > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. > Some > > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, > etc... > > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race > hosts > > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period > of time. > > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their > ball and > > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't > be > > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with > NROS. > > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the > answer, > > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what > we > > really need to push for. > > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I > think it > > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but > slow down > > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to > finish a > > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be > the > > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the > wrecked > > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and > go no > > where. This is a new problem with N3. > > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of > Racing Sims, > > so don't even go there... > > Thany you :) > > -Larry

*SPLONK* - sort of I don't really kill-file anyone except actual trolls, but this is a really thoughtless reply. -- -------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ --------------------------------

see below... Hell yeah! We'd have a brand new game engine every two years! > > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > [] > > -Larry -- -------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten http://members.xoom.com/morganv/ --------------------------------

The AI are improved but they dont fight for positions like I wish they did, they just arent very aggresive usually. I love N3 though just wish that windoze wasnt such a weak platform for ***.

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> > I think the AI are pushovers. > Then crank the AI setting above 85% :-) > -- > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

(snip) I'm one of those guys that just can't stay interested in single player. I bought N3 purely because of the TCP/IP online component. My .02 worth is the online component seems more like a 'hack' than something developed by a company that has 'years' (NROS/TEN) experience as well as a parent company (Sierra) that has 'done it right' in other games (Tribes, Homeworld). When I first tried online racing, I couldn't find 1 out of 10 servers that I couldn't even *ping*, much less connect to. Now I've 'found' the secret. 1st I have to try and connect (98% reports 'connection failed'). Only THEN does it seem I can ping the server (50/50 chance on a return). If I can ping the server (and the latency is fine) I can generally then connect just fine. If I don;t go thru those steps then I don;t race. wtf is up with that? OK, I've heard my 'problem' of not being able to connect/ping 'in general' is due to me trying to connect to a host that has gone on to qual/race/etc. What kind of online connect scheme is THAT I ask you? And in any case, if that's the case then SAY SO in the docs. For the longest time I just thought something was just broke. Besides IMHO, once a host moves past practice it should disappear from the list anyway. Bad drivers: What *IS* it with these yahoos. Forget the intentional sMAsHErs, nothing you can do about that (except, see below), I'm talking about just plain ol rookies. Last night I joined 6+ races, went thru the practice, quals, etc. only to be taken out before even getting to the backstretch. The last race I was so disgusted I just quit N3 (at the start in turn one, me in 5th with the leaders holding their line some dip$hit decided to try and pass everyone low on the *apron*. That was bad enough but another dumba$$ was cutting under HIM in the grass! Both then decided they weren't gaining anymore ground so they simply decided it was time to 'merge' into the already tight field. Now I don't claim to be a 'professional league' driver or rocket scientist but it doesn't take me but once to figure out I cannot occupy the same physical space someone else is already occupying. You would think others would figure out (giving them the benefit of a doubt) after a couple times of taking out the field on a start that a 30 lap race isn't going to be won in turn 1. Seems to me there is an inordinate amout of drivers that practice quals to get up front, but have NO CLUE whatsoever how to actually *race* after that. What I'd like to see is (just like a host can set max latency/ping time now) also have the ability for a host to be able to set entrance requirements to a minimum number of 'points' AND/or prevent players from joining that have had 'N' incidents in past (insert appropriate number) races. Yea I know there are leagues and a host can password a race, but 'joe schmoe' pickup drivers like me that try hard to race clean can't know 'everyone', and it takes too long to get to know the 'insiders' so I can at any given moment join a race that consists of people actually wanting to have a chance to *finish* a race over the course of the event. It's been a long time since I played NASCAR ('95ish). Despite the bugs you more experienced drivers are seeing, I guess I'm just not jaded yet and I love N3. but I'll tell ya... the online bozos are absolutely ruining this game for me...

Then you are the exception to the rule.

Sorry...but I do think GPL is the Messia of Racing Sims. I had to go there. And I agree with you, N3 is a big dissapointment. Robert Ditto that. Rik Anthrax - - "trust the government?? what are you, some kind of moron?"

And you're telling us this because......

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> This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable at > this point, but borderline defective. > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the top > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc... I > am no longer impressed by the AI. > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, and > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3. > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file restarts > actually work. > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. Some > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of time. > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball and > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the answer, > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > really need to push for. > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow down > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no > where. This is a new problem with N3. > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing Sims, > so don't even go there... > Thany you :) > -Larry

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

"Larry" wrote MY favorite game? LOL! You were the one that sounded like a Sierra salesman the last 2 months. "Papy has done an amazing job here. They really have." - Larry "I assure you N3 will be a HUGE success. The game is excellent." - Larry I'm the one that can say "I told you so" now that it took you 2 months to figure out what most of us knew the first time we booted it up: It's the same game we've been playing for 5 or 6 years but running on a less stable operating system at higher resolution and with translucent smoke. The question I have is why is the "Messiah" of sim physics engines collecting dust while they are trying to hack new features into an outdated engine? Makes no sense to me. Oh that's right, our hardware can't handle 43 cars... Hell, they only licensed 25 Winston Cup drivers, LOL! We gave up great physics, excellent force feedback and intelligent AI so we can race John Smith!

discussion (d?-skshen) noun 1. Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation. 2. A formal discourse on a topic; an exposition. whine (hwn, wn) verb whined, whining, whines verb, intransitive 1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint. 2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion. 3. To produce a sustained noise of relatively high pitch: jet engines whining. The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright ? 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved. OK, you tell me what went on. Whining or discussion.

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> No, it's not another thing. It's discussion. If this group were nothing more > than people asking how to do this and that rather than actual discussion > there'd be little reason for many of us to visit here on a daily basis. That's > one reason why Usenet was created in the first place. I encourage it no matter > whether I agree or disagree. > > Discussion is one thing. Unilateral pissing and moaning about a sim which he > loved > > five minutes ago is quite another. > -- > ----------------------------------- > Morgan Vincent Wooten > http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ > -----------------------------------

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

No, I'm not. So there :) -Larry

Nah, they just run you off the damed track. Then they don't need to be aggressive. :) -Larry > The AI are improved but they dont fight for positions like I wish they did,

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> they just arent very aggresive usually. I love N3 though just wish that > windoze wasnt such a weak platform for ***. > > > I think the AI are pushovers. > > Then crank the AI setting above 85% :-) > > -- > > Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. > > cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Boomer, I couldn't agree more. Combine that with the 'sore loser' hosts and it's totally frustrating. The dedicated servers _are_ a step in the right direction, though. Frankly, until (we can only hope) a true, sanctioned and properly financed replacement for NROS is created it will never, ever be the same. I will _gladly_ hand over $20 a month again to get back what we had. Just no more N2 though. I finally threw away my last analog steering wheel when TEN went kaput :) -larry

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> >This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > >At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable at > >this point, but borderline defective. > (snip) > >5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all.

Some > >of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... > >But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > >that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > >threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of time. > >I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball and > >going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > >useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > >Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the answer,

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> >though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > >really need to push for. > I'm one of those guys that just can't stay interested in single > player. I bought N3 purely because of the TCP/IP online component. > My .02 worth is the online component seems more like a 'hack' than > something developed by a company that has 'years' (NROS/TEN) > experience as well as a parent company (Sierra) that has 'done it > right' in other games (Tribes, Homeworld). > When I first tried online racing, I couldn't find 1 out of 10 servers > that I couldn't even *ping*, much less connect to. Now I've 'found' > the secret. 1st I have to try and connect (98% reports 'connection > failed'). Only THEN does it seem I can ping the server (50/50 chance > on a return). If I can ping the server (and the latency is fine) I can > generally then connect just fine. If I don;t go thru those steps then > I don;t race. wtf is up with that? > OK, I've heard my 'problem' of not being able to connect/ping 'in > general' is due to me trying to connect to a host that has gone on to > qual/race/etc. What kind of online connect scheme is THAT I ask you? > And in any case, if that's the case then SAY SO in the docs. For the > longest time I just thought something was just broke. Besides IMHO, > once a host moves past practice it should disappear from the list > anyway. > Bad drivers: What *IS* it with these yahoos. Forget the intentional > sMAsHErs, nothing you can do about that (except, see below), I'm > talking about just plain ol rookies. Last night I joined 6+ races, > went thru the practice, quals, etc. only to be taken out before even > getting to the backstretch. The last race I was so disgusted I just > quit N3 (at the start in turn one, me in 5th with the leaders holding > their line some dip$hit decided to try and pass everyone low on the > *apron*. That was bad enough but another dumba$$ was cutting under HIM > in the grass! Both then decided they weren't gaining anymore ground so > they simply decided it was time to 'merge' into the already tight > field. > Now I don't claim to be a 'professional league' driver or rocket > scientist but it doesn't take me but once to figure out I cannot > occupy the same physical space someone else is already occupying. You > would think others would figure out (giving them the benefit of a > doubt) after a couple times of taking out the field on a start that a > 30 lap race isn't going to be won in turn 1. Seems to me there is an > inordinate amout of drivers that practice quals to get up front, but > have NO CLUE whatsoever how to actually *race* after that. > What I'd like to see is (just like a host can set max latency/ping > time now) also have the ability for a host to be able to set entrance > requirements to a minimum number of 'points' AND/or prevent players > from joining that have had 'N' incidents in past (insert appropriate > number) races. Yea I know there are leagues and a host can password a > race, but 'joe schmoe' pickup drivers like me that try hard to race > clean can't know 'everyone', and it takes too long to get to know the > 'insiders' so I can at any given moment join a race that consists of > people actually wanting to have a chance to *finish* a race over the > course of the event. > It's been a long time since I played NASCAR ('95ish). Despite the bugs > you more experienced drivers are seeing, I guess I'm just not jaded > yet and I love N3. but I'll tell ya... the online bozos are absolutely > ruining this game for me...

First, I don't bash my friend, so get your facts straight. Second, I do believe I said while I _was_ happy with it at first, after time the shiny has worn off and I'm NOT so happy with it any more. I'm so sorry you are so sensitive to reasonably presented problems with your, apparantly, favorite game. I really didn't mean to hurt your feelings. -Larry

Your point? -Larry

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> And you're telling us this because...... > > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable

at

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> > this point, but borderline defective. > > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so > > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the

top > > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, etc... I > > am no longer impressed by the AI. > > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, and > > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3. > > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file restarts > > actually work. > > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. Some > > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... > > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of time. > > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball and > > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the answer, > > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > > really need to push for. > > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it > > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow down > > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish a > > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the > > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the wrecked

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> > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no > > where. This is a new problem with N3. > > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing

Sims,

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> > so don't even go there... > > Thany you :) > > -Larry > -- > Bob Curtin > Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange > http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green,

baggy > skin"

LOL! It's an old saying from, well, I forget. I think it might have been some sort of toy from the 60's or 70's. The tag line was "Weebles wooble but they don't fall down". Hehe -larry What the f*ck is a weebles wobble? Car wobble, sure. The AI sucks. Ancient game engine.

He wants to know why you are telling us this.

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> Your point? > -Larry > > And you're telling us this because...... > > > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > > > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable > at > > > this point, but borderline defective. > > > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > > > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > > > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > > > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > > > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after

so

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> > > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the > top > > > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, > etc... I > > > am no longer impressed by the AI. > > > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2

Card, > and > > > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > > > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3.

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> > > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > > > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file > restarts > > > actually work. > > > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. > Some > > > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections,

etc... > > > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > > > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > > > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of > time. > > > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball

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> and > > > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > > > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > > > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the > answer, > > > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > > > really need to push for. > > > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think

it

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> > > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow > down > > > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > > > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > > > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to

finish > a > > > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the > > > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the > wrecked > > > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no

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> > > where. This is a new problem with N3. > > > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > > > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > > > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing > Sims, > > > so don't even go there... > > > Thany you :) > > > -Larry > > -- > > Bob Curtin > > Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange > > http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ > > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, > baggy > > skin"

You did say it is completely un-enjoyable. That sounds like crap to me. Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sz1_3.346$[email hidden]... > Oh, one other thing. Did I mention anywhere that it was "Crap" > Please don't put words in my mouth, Tracey. You really went out of your way

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> to do that in your post. > Again, re-read my post... > -Larry > "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:38383456$0$[email hidden]... > > I assure you N3 will be a HUGE success. The game is excellent. > > If you think N3 is crap, donate your copy to someone who will enjoy it > > and > > go back to GPL. > > Many of us don't think it's crap, we understand that it doesn't have > > the GPL > > engine, and we knew this before we bought it. > > We enjoy Nascar racing, and currently N3 is the best in the business. > > Personally, I like the vastly improved graphics and graphics > > performance, > > the improved AI, and the slightly improved physics. I think it was > > worth > > every penny I paid for it. > > Papy has done an amazing job here. They really have. > > I guess you missed: > > 1. The highly upraded, and much smarter, AI. > > 2. The vastly improved sounds. > > 3. Graphics that the older versions can't compare to. > > 4. Video performance that completely blows away the previous > > versions. > > 5. Online play that, while certainly not TEN quality, is very well > > integrated and easy to use. > > IMHO, Nascar Racing 3 is the _first_ upgraded release of the series > > since > > the first N2 that can truly be called an upgrade. This is no whimpy > > Nascar > > 1999. This is an honest-to-goodness upgrade that improves nearly > > every > > facet of the simulation. > > Graphics > > --------- > > I simply have to start here. This version brings Nascar Revolution > > Eye-Candy, without the down-side. There simply is NO down-side. > > I have every single option turned on and set to it's highest setting. > > 1024X768. 16 Bit Color. Full 40 car field, with all cars visible > > front and > > back. All sounds set to their best quality. All textures on. Full > > track > > visibility. Absolutely everything turned on at it's highest setting. > > I had absolutely no frame-rate problems at all. Most amazing, I had > > NO > > popup's at all. Not at any track I tested, including Talladega and > > Bristol, > > the two worst tracks for this sort of thing. > > The translucent smoke and persistant skid-marks are really cool. Even > > more > > important, I had no frame-rate 'clogs' during periods of heavy smoke. > > The realism of the smoke and skids is really something. If you get > > behind > > someone with a smoking tire or engine, it actually hinders your > > visibility > > just like it should. If there is a big pile-up, you drive into a > > blinding > > floating cloud of smoke, just like you should. > > I cannot overstate how impressed I am with the quality, realism, and > > performance of the graphics. Papy has done what is seemingly > > impossible > > here. > > Personally, I think this is the simulation that future games will be > > measured against when it comes to graphics quality, realism and most > > importantly performance. > > I can deal with the 2D Cockpit. It is such a huge improvement over > > N2/99 > > that I don't care there aren't shadows on the gauges from the needles. > > Even > > the mirrors work right now! Finally :) > > Mental note - I'm a registered NRHQ user... Must check the web site > > for an > > update that works with N3. > > Physics > > ------- > > No bones about it. There is a huge improvement here as well. While > > it is > > the N2 engine, it is not the _same_ N2 engine. The handling of the > > car is > > much more realistic to me. Changes in setup work like you think they > > will > > (finally). > > A couple of things I notice that I've never seen before. First, if > > you tap > > a car in the rear quarter, you aren't automatically spun out like you > > tended > > to be in N2. N2 would snap-spin you in a heartbeat. N3 will make > > your car > > react much like you would expect it to. Anything from a mild bobble, > > to a > > full spin. > > Speaking of bobble's, the car's do it now. Instead of just 'wiggling' > > when > > you tap them, you can see realistic body roll along with the wiggle. > > Secondly, it's interesting to watch the relationship of the cars > > compared to > > the painted lines on the track. If a car is loose, you can actually > > _see_ > > that it is loose. The rear of the car will visibly be drifted out > > further > > from the line than the front of the car. The little whif of smoke you > > see > > from tires is a good indication as well :) In N2/99, the cars were > > always > > square to the line as they went around the track, whether they were > > loose or > > not. > > There was more attention to detail here than I expected, and I think > > most > > will be very happy with the improvements in the physics. > > Oh, the realistic 'tire hop' when accellerating from a stand-still and > > spinning the tires is pretty cool too :) > > AI > > -- > > Wow! > > For the first time, it feels like you are actually racing skilled > > drivers > > instead of brain-dead robots! It's funny, but Dale Earnhardt did a > > tap-and-pass on me at Bristol in one race. LOL :) > > The drivers draft properly. They will take advantage of _any_ > > mis-step you > > have. They don't come down on you in the corners like they did in > > NR1999. > > This was actually quite horrible in NR1999. Even worse than N2, IMHO. > > This > > has been nearly completely corrected in N3. > > I actually did some FOUR wide racing at Talladega. As long as _you_ > > are up > > to it, _they_ are up to it. These guys really race with some good old > > fashioned common sense now. Well, most of the time. I did have one > > bone-head at Dega come from the outer lane and swerve down in front of > > me to > > enter the pits. It happens in real racing, so I guess it's part of > > the deal > > :) > > I could swear I got bump-drafted once at Dega... > > Sound > > ------ > > I don't have 3D sound, but the sounds in N3 are much, much improved. > > It > > actually sounds like a race car now. Tire squeel, impacts, etc... all > > sound > > much like the real thing now. You can actually hear squeel's leading > > up to > > impacts :) > > Installation, etc... > > ----------------- > > No issues here. > > It plays without the CD!!! > > Interface > > --------- > > Plenty familiar, but improved. I like it. > > Force-Feedback > > ----------------- > > It feels a little weak to me. However, I suspect there is a setting > > buried > > somewhere that will eventually be uncovered to tweak this. > > Why don't game manufacturer's supply customized profile files for the > > most > > popular wheels/joysticks, such as the MSFFW and others? > > Other than the somewhat-weak Force-Feedback, I find it hard to > > complain > > about this game. It is the _first_ Nxxx upgrade since the original N2 > > that > > I feel good about paying for. > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ynSZ3.135$[email hidden]... > > > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > > > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely > > un-enjoyable at > > > this point, but borderline defective. > > > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > > > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > > > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > > > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > > > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after > > so > > > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from > > the top > > > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, > > etc... I > > > am no longer impressed by the AI. > > > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 > > Card, and > > > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > > > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar > > Racing 3. > > > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > > > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file > > restarts > > > actually work. > > > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. > > Some > > > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, > > etc... > > > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race > > hosts > > > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > > > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period > > of time. > > > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their > > ball and > > > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't > > be > > > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with > > NROS. > > > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the > > answer, > > > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what > > we > > > really need to push for. > > > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I > > think it > > > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but > > slow down > > > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > > > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > > > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to > > finish a > > > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be > > the > > > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the > > wrecked > > > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the

... read more »

>4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file restarts >actually work. They do work. For me anyways. Not even that. More like 'take you out in the corner without a scratch' AI. Disagree. This has ALWAYS been a problem with the AI and wrecks.

I think it depends on how you define "work". The slamming on the brakes once or twice during the last lap before green is a major pain in the ass, if you play with any sort of damage settings on. Nothing like getting your front end bashed in because the line went from 55 mph to 5 in ten feet, then accelerates to over 100 mph to catch up with the pace car. Additionally, at many tracks, once the green flag drops, the latter half to two thirds often parks almost sideways for an instant creating an instant parking lot, then abruptly swivels forward again and takes off. The fact that some people have created AI patches (for N99) to correct this restart glitch is proof that the game developers could have, and should have done this in the first place. And if it was done for N99, it sure could have, and should have, been done for N3.

And if you accidently move in front of a competitor because of this, you are black flagged. This is before you cross the start/finish line. It makes no difference if you let the AI back in front of you. The program thinks you moved ahead of someone, so you are black flagged. So it does not work. IMHO doesn't even matter how you define it :-) -- Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes. cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Have a nice breakfast when you wake up.

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> You just proved my point: discussion > Whether you agree or disagree or are just sick to death of hearing the same > sh*t over and over again, these topics should still be brought up and discussed > (whined about). That's one of the things newsgroups are for. Just skip the > messages you don't want to read and quit "whining" about other people whining > and everything'll be okay. :) > > discussion (d?-skshen) noun > > 1. Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation. > > 2. A formal discourse on a topic; an exposition. > [] > > 2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion. > "childish fashion"... I don't believe the orginal message was childish in the > least. Complaining is what Larry was doing, not whining, according to these > definitions. > [] > > OK, you tell me what went on. Whining or discussion. > > -- > > Bob Curtin > > Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange > > http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ > > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy > skin"

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

black flagged. This is before you cross the start/finish line. It makes no difference if you let the AI back in front of you. The program thinks you moved ahead of someone, so you are black flagged. I don't know, Greg.... I have often gotten ahead of the previous car during a caution... so much so that the spotter will say "stay behind the ### car." and as long as you are back in line when the green flag drops, I have never been penalized. Sometimes I will even intentionally go in front of a car, just to hear the spotter say what car I should stay behind, (at Bristol it can get confusing sometimes), and again, as long as I am back in line when the green drops I am not black flagged. However, I try and do a Save Game during each caution, so if the restart is a total *** I Exit and have a cleaner restart.

I think this is a discussion group. The point is to discuss subjects related to sim racing. Unless I'm mistaken, and I don't think I am. -- ----------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ -----------------------------------

My point is, who gives a shit?

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> Your point? > -Larry > > And you're telling us this because...... > > > This may ruffle some feathers here, but... > > > At this point, I find Nascar Racing 3 not only completely un-enjoyable > at > > > this point, but borderline defective. > > > At first, I was enamored at the nice graphics, smoke, slight physics > > > improvements, etc... But, after playing it for a few months, I am > > > thoroughly disappointed. The honeymoon is over. > > > N3 has so many problems I don't even know where to start. > > > 1. The AI is incredibly stupid. It seems smart at first, but after so > > > getting wrecked out so many times by cars just swerving down from the > top > > > grove right in to you, slamming on brakes for no reason whatsoever, > etc... I > > > am no longer impressed by the AI. > > > 2. Graphics stutter in the corners. A PC with 128MB RAM, a TNT2 Card, > and > > > a 450Mhz processor should not be seeing this. > > > 3. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down. Except in Nascar Racing 3. > > > What _is_ it with that car wobble? > > > 4. Double-File restarts don't work. I have YET to see double file > restarts > > > actually work. > > > 5. Multi-Player. So many problems here, I won't go in to them all. > Some > > > of it Papyrus can't fix, like bone-head drivers, bad connections, etc... > > > But, there should be SOME way for the system to keep track of race hosts > > > that cancel races before they are done, and if it reaches a certain > > > threshhold, that person cannot start any races for a certain period of > time. > > > I am SO tired of race hosts getting damaged, and then "taking their ball > and > > > going home" by canceling the race in mid-race. Multi-Player won't be > > > useable until we have dedicated servers again, like we did with NROS. > > > Period. Yes, I know about the beta... I'm not convinced it is the > answer, > > > though. DEDICATED servers like TEN are the answer, and that's what we > > > really need to push for. > > > 6. Force Feedback. I know that some here think it's great. I think it > > > sucks. I find it very unrealistic and to me it does nothing but slow > down > > > my reaction time because of the excessive latency it adds. > > > 7. Did I mention the kamakazi AI? > > > 8. Run races without yellow flags offlline? Not if you want to finish > a > > > race without the track being blocked permanently. This seems to be the > > > worst at Bristol. Have a big pile-up without yellows on, and the > wrecked > > > cars, dozens of them, will just sit in the middle of the track and go no > > > where. This is a new problem with N3. > > > There's a lot more, and I'm sure that most of this has already been > > > mentioned, but I had to put my 2 cents worth in. > > > And, no. While I do play GPL, I don't think it's the Messia of Racing > Sims, > > > so don't even go there... > > > Thany you :) > > > -Larry > > -- > > Bob Curtin > > Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange > > http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ > > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, > baggy > > skin"

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Discussion is one thing. Unilateral pissing and moaning about a sim which he loved five minutes ago is quite another.

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> I think this is a discussion group. The point is to discuss subjects related to > sim racing. Unless I'm mistaken, and I don't think I am. > > He wants to know why you are telling us this. > -- > ----------------------------------- > Morgan Vincent Wooten > http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ > -----------------------------------

-- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

No, it's not another thing. It's discussion. If this group were nothing more than people asking how to do this and that rather than actual discussion there'd be little reason for many of us to visit here on a daily basis. That's one reason why Usenet was created in the first place. I encourage it no matter whether I agree or disagree. -- ----------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ -----------------------------------

You just proved my point: discussion Whether you agree or disagree or are just sick to death of hearing the same sh*t over and over again, these topics should still be brought up and discussed (whined about). That's one of the things newsgroups are for. Just skip the messages you don't want to read and quit "whining" about other people whining and everything'll be okay. :) "childish fashion"... I don't believe the orginal message was childish in the least. Complaining is what Larry was doing, not whining, according to these definitions. []

Who cares how good GPL physics are. Noboy gives a sh!t about 1960s F1 cars. And who needs to hear your beefs about N3 anyway?? This looks like a thread of GPL suck ups that feel they need to stick together now to convince themselves that GPL is more popular than N3. Someday they might take that wonderful physics engine and put it in a racing era that someone actually cares about. Until then, nothing can touch N3 as a total package.

Really? Tell that to the 100,000 people (myself included) who braved the Goodwood weekend in September in the freezing cold and wet. MS

Yeah, you tell him, Mark. Can't argue with the facts!

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> > Who cares how good GPL physics are. Noboy gives a sh!t about 1960s F1 > > cars. > Really? > Tell that to the 100,000 people (myself included) who braved the Goodwood > weekend in September in the freezing cold and wet. > MS

-- Rob Swindells Goldline Bearings FFord Championship: http://swindells.8m.com BAR-Honda-Jacques Villeneuve-2000 Champions

All in > Yeah, you tell him, Mark. Can't argue with the facts! I don't think there was a large North American contingency there, but I guess it's obvious to see what you percieve a 'reality'.... ;0) All in good fun... Mike

Jsut another frustrated driver who doesn't have the patience of learning the real challenge of those great retro-racers... At least they've got an original package. ---Timulator---

What planet are you on matey?

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>Who cares how good GPL physics are. Noboy gives a sh!t about 1960s F1 >cars. And who needs to hear your beefs about N3 anyway?? >This looks like a thread of GPL suck ups that feel they need to stick >together now to convince themselves that GPL is more popular than N3. >Someday they might take that wonderful physics engine and put it in a >racing era that someone actually cares about. >Until then, nothing can touch N3 as a total package.

Spoken like a true myopic American who thinks the whole world revolves around him. Read a few books, look around, you might find that there other things interesting out there. Jeff Haas Indiana

bd1.aol.com>: Most likely the one on this side of the Pond! :) Tim.