NASCAR 3 BUGS

hopes somebody from Sierra will read it . When I get a bunch of ideas or comments I'll send them to Sierra. I think they might find it interesting. The game is great, but there are things I feel should have been added or deleted for future concerns if they make a Nascar 4. Here are a few complaints or problems with N3 I've noticed after many laps..... Complaint #1 Paintshop: It's tough painting these cars because the paintshop in N3 totally sucks and doesn't except millions of colors like Viper Racing's Paintshop. N3 Paintshop probably handles about 250 colors or so. I was disappointed to see that after Sierra had made a really nicely done paintshop such as the one in Viper Racing. I don't know why those guys can't do a complete makeover on this game. It seems they like to keep some of the old junk and give it little facelift. At least they got the handling and sound right this time, but still it doesn't drive like Viper Racing. Complaint #2 Road Courses: I was also disappointed with the road courses because they don't blend well and the frame transistions are not as smooth as other Sierra racing games. The thing I hate the most about Watkins Glen and Sears Point as that it still seems like you have a dead wall a head of you and the car doesn't turn with the wheel as it should. Complaint #3 Car Bottlenecking: How many times have I started a race and smashed into the rear of a car that once was up to speed but suddenly slowed during or at the beginning of a green flag wave? Somebody ought to have fixed that a long time ago as it has been in N1, N2, N99 and N3. Complaint #4 Computer cars speeding down pitroad: I'm driving the RPM limit and I get passed, what's with that? Complaint #5: Track bug in South Boston race: Black flags even though I never passed anyone before the green flag.... Complaint #6 Slower computer cars during caution: Slower computer car in front of you will not speed up or close up which prevents you from entering the pitroad on time. This can be frustrating at a short track like Bristol. The lead car will be exiting the pits and you can't get in to the pits because a computer car hasn't figured out to get moving. This happens many times and deserves a patch. Complaint #7 Ancient and (Mostly) unusable Decal Sheet: Let's keep up a losing tradition! Meant for kids under 18. Can't use real sponsors like Miller Lite or Winston because they might get younger kids to drink or smoke and Sierra doesn't want to shell out tons of cash to pay of GM or Ford for using logos. So we're left with made up ***or stupid things like ICHABOD or Daisy, etc... (Basically nothing anybody would paint a car with). Did you notice that even some of the front air intake covers (on the grille) are still the same though they're not used in modern day racing? They're basically '95-'96 era grille style junk.. Though I have to say that the Monte grille in N3 does look like a Monte grille.. At least they got that one right, too bad every car, even though it should be a Pontiac or Ford looks like a Monte. I'm sure the folks at Chevy don't mind. Complaint #8 Cars positioned behind you pass to your left or inside before start/finish: This one ticks me off too! Let's say you're under caution and you're about to green. You're in 20th place and let's say that there are 10 cars behind you on the lead lap. Once the green flag waves, the cars behind you on the lead lap pass you on the inside before you cross the start/finish line. By Nascar rules that would bring out the Black flag for those or that driver that passed on the inside of your car before you crossed the start finish line or passed the green flag. The only time that drivers can pass on the inside of your car is in the case of a accident or a driver ahead of your car had instant car trouble. Emergency situations only. This problem that Sierra missed creates an unfair advantage for you because it places you further back. Now you combine that with Complaint #3 (Bottlenecking) and you're at a real disadvantage. So in the game, I pass on the inside since the computer does it to. Fair is fair right? Complaint #9 Cars can pit before you even though they're behind you: More unfairness? Example: The caution waves and you're in 10th place. You don't need to pit, but the 15th place car does because it's damaged. So the 15th place car passes you on the inside and other cars and enters into the pits before you get to pass the entrance to pitroad. By rules, you can't enter the pits before the 9th place car can, and if you did, you would get black flagged next time you go green. The computer can, but you can't. There oughta be a patch.. Complaint #10 No Pocono or Daytona: Someday, hopefully in Nascar 5 or 6 we'll see those tracks again..... Complaint #11 Lapped cars can't always line up to lead car before green flag wave: One problem I've been running into in both N3 and Legends is on some of the short tracks the cars don't bother lining up for the "one lap to green" off the caution. A lot of times they'll either hang on the track (while you're being told to line up on a car that's 10 positions *behind* you), or they'll take off and pass the pace car, leaving you to get black flagged if you do the same. I don't know how many times I've been screwed at Bristol because I've been hung up behind someone, then I watch the pack take off and damn near lap me before the green falls. Complaint #12 Tires loss of heat, lose grip when a game is reloaded back up, loss of tire wear: This happens a lot at California, Memphis and a few others. Testing goes great, qualifying is great and usually the laps you run before you quit and save the game are fine. Though when you load the game and run more laps on the same race, guess what? You just lost about 40 degrees of heat in the tires and the car doesn't grip worth a damn. Plus, the tires show that they have lost a majority of their wear. I can't figure how this happens, but it pisses me off because you can go from winning to losing in a heartbeat. I don't know if the save game feature screws this up or the data gets corrupted. There oughta be a patch... p.s. i send this to sierra

I'm pretty sure that once the green drops the race is on, you don't have to wait until the S/F line (at least on a road course), and I personally like the way the cars handle in N3 on the road course, you might try giving lots of steering lock in the setup (20 plus) this will help with your understeer problem. You can get lots of cool add-on decal sheets from www.theuspits.com . You can grab Pocono & Daytona from www.nascar-racing-sims.com . But your complaints are valid on the other aspects. Good thing you sent it to Papyrus.............

>Complaint #1 Paintshop: >It's tough painting these cars because the paintshop in N3 totally sucks and >doesn't except millions of colors like Viper Racing's Paintshop. N3 Paintshop N3 was done by Papyrus, Viper was by MGI. They're totally independant companies. Sierra is merely the PUBLISHER, not the author. green The problem is they're modelling each car's AI independantly. Each car will slow down if the car front of it does, as this goes down the line for 10 or 15 cars, it gets magnified until cars begin STOPPING toward the back of the pack. I agree (and so will everyone else) that this DOES need to be fixed. It's not technically a "bug" - they just should have used a _different_ algorithm to detect speed changes during yellows. It's like that in real life at a red light though, notice that if you're 5 cars back when a light turns green, you have to wait till the car in front of you goes; who had to wait for the car in front of them; who had to wait for the car in front of them; and so on. Eventually the light may even change before you start rolling. Of course that's doesn't happen on a real RACEcourse... The speed limit is in MPH, NOT RPM. When you're spotter tells you 4500, you can usually go around 5000 - look at the SPEED, not RPM's. The spotter's too conservative. That's not the only track. Be aware, you can't pass the pace car even if he's in pit road. Unfortunately you can't see him and may not be aware you've passed him. a Same problem as above during yellows. I agree - VERY frustrating. Currently, there are only 2 solutions: don't be at the back of the pack (yeah, right... lol); and don't have yellows (no way, in my book). Absolutely agree. However, I'd just as soon Papy saved their money and let the 3rd party guys make the decal sheets (and they've done an OUTSTANDING job!!!). I agree on BOTH points. That's a rule either Papy didn't know about, or decided was too difficult to model. Fair IS fair, and I'll pass on the inside if I can. don't I agree with this, too. Pocono can be had from N99, Daytona is a _rumored_ "maybe soon." I agree, though - no season is complete without a Daytona 500. This also ties into the yellow flag algorithm. I haven't seen this very often, but it's usually caused by the cars behind you refusing to pass you to line up. It SHOULD get fixed. Seems it'd be easy enough to fix. Maybe they're not aware of it... You had some good points. Many of them aren't actually "bugs" but are certainly fixable things. I just wish they'd allow us to pit according to qualifying position. I would think that'd be easily fixable. Gunner

Hmmm, I can't find the decal sheets here. Can someone point me to them? Of course, while I was on there lookin for decals, I found all kinds of other neat stuff, as always. Slot >I'm pretty sure that once the green drops the race is on, you don't have to >wait until the S/F line (at least on a road course), and I personally like >the way the cars handle in N3 on the road course, you might try giving lots >of steering lock in the setup (20 plus) this will help with your understeer >problem. You can get lots of cool add-on decal sheets from www.theuspits.com >. You can grab Pocono & Daytona from www.nascar-racing-sims.com . But your >complaints are valid on the other aspects. Good thing you sent it to

Look in the "stockcar" section and then look in the "utilities" section. It is under "decal bonanza" as you scroll down three or four utilities.

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> Hmmm, I can't find the decal sheets here. Can someone point me to them? Of > course, while I was on there lookin for decals, I found all kinds of other > neat stuff, as always. > Slot > >I'm pretty sure that once the green drops the race is on, you don't have

to > >wait until the S/F line (at least on a road course), and I personally like > >the way the cars handle in N3 on the road course, you might try giving lots > >of steering lock in the setup (20 plus) this will help with your understeer > >problem. You can get lots of cool add-on decal sheets from > www.theuspits.com > >. You can grab Pocono & Daytona from www.nascar-racing-sims.com . But your > >complaints are valid on the other aspects. Good thing you sent it to

I agree with nearly all of your observations, and they appear in Legends as well. I reported the Tyre Temp problem when I got N3 in November, so somebody surely must have noticed it way, way before that. I guess they may wait until N4 to announce that the current bugs have been fixed. Steve >hopes somebody from Sierra will read it . When I get a bunch of ideas or >comments I'll send them to Sierra. I think they might find it interesting. The >game is great, but there are things I feel should have been added or deleted >for future concerns if they make a Nascar 4. >Here are a few complaints or problems with N3 I've noticed after many laps..... >Complaint #1 Paintshop: >It's tough painting these cars because the paintshop in N3 totally sucks and >doesn't except millions of colors like Viper Racing's Paintshop. N3 Paintshop >probably handles about 250 colors or so. I was disappointed to see that after >Sierra had made a really nicely done paintshop such as the one in Viper Racing. >I don't know why those guys can't do a complete makeover on this game. It seems >they like to keep some of the old junk and give it little facelift. At least >they got the handling and sound right this time, but still it doesn't drive >like Viper Racing. >Complaint #2 Road Courses: >I was also disappointed with the road courses because they don't blend well and >the frame transistions are not as smooth as other Sierra racing games. The >thing I hate the most about Watkins Glen and Sears Point as that it still seems >like you have a dead wall a head of you and the car doesn't turn with the wheel >as it should. >Complaint #3 Car Bottlenecking: >How many times have I started a race and smashed into the rear of a car that >once was up to speed but suddenly slowed during or at the beginning of a green >flag wave? Somebody ought to have fixed that a long time ago as it has been in

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>N1, N2, N99 and N3. >Complaint #4 Computer cars speeding down pitroad: >I'm driving the RPM limit and I get passed, what's with that? >Complaint #5: Track bug in South Boston race: >Black flags even though I never passed anyone before the green flag.... >Complaint #6 Slower computer cars during caution: >Slower computer car in front of you will not speed up or close up which >prevents you from entering the pitroad on time. This can be frustrating at

a >short track like Bristol. The lead car will be exiting the pits and you can't

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>get in to the pits because a computer car hasn't figured out to get moving. >This happens many times and deserves a patch. >Complaint #7 Ancient and (Mostly) unusable Decal Sheet: >Let's keep up a losing tradition! Meant for kids under 18. Can't use real >sponsors like Miller Lite or Winston because they might get younger kids to >drink or smoke and Sierra doesn't want to shell out tons of cash to pay of

GM >or Ford for using logos. So we're left with made up ***or stupid things like >ICHABOD or Daisy, etc... (Basically nothing anybody would paint a car with). >Did you notice that even some of the front air intake covers (on the grille) >are still the same though they're not used in modern day racing? They're >basically '95-'96 era grille style junk.. Though I have to say that the Monte >grille in N3 does look like a Monte grille.. At least they got that one right,

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>too bad every car, even though it should be a Pontiac or Ford looks like a >Monte. I'm sure the folks at Chevy don't mind. >Complaint #8 Cars positioned behind you pass to your left or inside before >start/finish: >This one ticks me off too! Let's say you're under caution and you're about

to >green. You're in 20th place and let's say that there are 10 cars behind you on >the lead lap. Once the green flag waves, the cars behind you on the lead lap >pass you on the inside before you cross the start/finish line. By Nascar rules >that would bring out the Black flag for those or that driver that passed on the >inside of your car before you crossed the start finish line or passed the green >flag. The only time that drivers can pass on the inside of your car is in the >case of a accident or a driver ahead of your car had instant car trouble. >Emergency situations only. This problem that Sierra missed creates an unfair >advantage for you because it places you further back. Now you combine that with >Complaint #3 (Bottlenecking) and you're at a real disadvantage. So in the game, >I pass on the inside since the computer does it to. Fair is fair right? >Complaint #9 Cars can pit before you even though they're behind you: >More unfairness? Example: The caution waves and you're in 10th place. You don't >need to pit, but the 15th place car does because it's damaged. So the 15th >place car passes you on the inside and other cars and enters into the pits >before you get to pass the entrance to pitroad. By rules, you can't enter the >pits before the 9th place car can, and if you did, you would get black flagged

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>next time you go green. The computer can, but you can't. There oughta be a >patch.. >Complaint #10 No Pocono or Daytona: >Someday, hopefully in Nascar 5 or 6 we'll see those tracks again..... >Complaint #11 Lapped cars can't always line up to lead car before green

flag >wave: >One problem I've been running into in both N3 and Legends is on some of the >short tracks the cars don't bother lining up for the "one lap to green" off the >caution. A lot of times they'll either hang on the track (while you're being >told to line up on a car that's 10 positions *behind* you), or they'll take off >and pass the pace car, leaving you to get black flagged if you do the same. I >don't know how many times I've been screwed at Bristol because I've been hung >up behind someone, then I watch the pack take off and damn near lap me before >the green falls. >Complaint #12 Tires loss of heat, lose grip when a game is reloaded back up, >loss of tire wear: >This happens a lot at California, Memphis and a few others. Testing goes great, >qualifying is great and usually the laps you run before you quit and save the >game are fine. Though when you load the game and run more laps on the same >race, guess what? You just lost about 40 degrees of heat in the tires and the >car doesn't grip worth a damn. Plus, the tires show that they have lost a >majority of their wear. I can't figure how this happens, but it pisses me off >because you can go from winning to losing in a heartbeat. I don't know if the >save game feature screws this up or the data gets corrupted. There oughta be a >patch... >p.s. i send this to sierra

Blah, blah... who cares anymore? I've been ***ing for months (to myself, mostly), but it changes nothing. Hopefully N4 will finally be the GPL engine-based sim we've all been waiting for and none of the things you mentioned will even be issues anymore. If you want something better than N3 and perhaps the disapointment that may wind up being N4 we should organize a team and begin building our own NASCAR sim. :) -- ----------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/ ----------------------------------- [ CLIP ] car doesn't grip worth a damn. Plus, the tires show that they have lost a

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>Blah, blah... who cares anymore? I've been ***ing for months (to myself, >mostly), but it changes nothing. Hopefully N4 will finally be the GPL >engine-based sim we've all been waiting for and none of the things you >mentioned will even be issues anymore. If you want something better than N3 >and >perhaps the disapointment that may wind up being N4 we should organize a team >and begin building our own NASCAR sim. :)

You're right - ***ing to yourself changes nothing. But, Papyrus employees DO read r.a.s. occasionally. So, wouldn't it make sense to voice your concerns here. Or, as the original poster said he did - send them to the company? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I have downloaded the decal bonanza as well as a car that I would like to drive. What directory do I unzip the decals to and how do I find and make the car I downloaded the one that i drive ? Thanks in advance

I won't call this a bug but I have a good one. Along with several friends, I like to race many of the tracks without qualifying, multiplier, with damage on, and starting at the back of a full AI Field. It makes a nice challenge. At Bristol, Lets say I get the 42nd starting position. I begin at the top of the track, sitting still, on the banking of turn 4. My cars front slides down the track and hits the side of the car beside me. Now he's a "Curb". When the green falls 5 seconds later, He pulls away, with my front bumper, and I drive down into the apron and start the race. Kool.