1st Time

Hey this is a very cool site. I just bought a p3 system and I decided to visit my local games store, when I saw a cheap game to try out. SPORTS CAR GT! This game rocks. I love car sims, although I wish most game companies would consult us before release. Just to check out a silly thing called "Physics Engine". I got up to 2467 racing days on the 1st Gran tourismo. Please tell me I am not alone on this one. Anyways, S.C.GT is the best real game I have ever seen. If there is more, show people the light!

There's this other funny little game called Grand Prix Legends. Believe me, it's more realistic than SCGT :) Andre

Hehe, should we tell him about Grand Prix Legends :) He may never leave home <G> -- Richard "ZZ" Busch Official member: Screamers Racing League Sim Racing Mag Honda Challenge NASROC ---------------- Busch Motorsports: Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward ----------------- Busch Carpentry: Plans?, Oh, you mean that napkin sketch?

Grand Prix Legends. Developed by Papyrus, published by Sierra. Nothing comes as close to real car physics. It is not to be taken lightly though. Don't expect to just get in, drive and win.. I've had it for over a year and I still haven't won a race. But it still love it. I still only know 2 tracks really well (out of 11), all the rest I can't even keep the car on the road because I don't know the track. Dean

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>Hey this is a very cool site. I just bought a p3 system and I decided to >visit my local games store, when I saw a cheap game to try out. SPORTS CAR >GT! >This game rocks. I love car sims, although I wish most game companies would >consult us before release. Just to check out a silly thing called "Physics >Engine". I got up to 2467 racing days on the 1st Gran tourismo. Please tell >me I am not alone on this one. Anyways, S.C.GT is the best real game I have >ever seen. If there is more, show people the light!

Unfortunately the realism of the GPL physics engine is superceded by the absurdity of the time travel element of the game. What SCGT lacks in physics it makes up for with it's underpinning in reality. Hopefully when WSC ships we will no longer have to sacrifice one reality for the other > >Hey this is a very cool site. I just bought a p3 system and I decided to > >visit my local games store, when I saw a cheap game to try out. SPORTS CAR > >GT! > >This game rocks. I love car sims, although I wish most game companies would > >consult us before release. Just to check out a silly thing called "Physics > >Engine". I got up to 2467 racing days on the 1st Gran tourismo. Please tell > >me I am not alone on this one. Anyways, S.C.GT is the best real game I have > >ever seen. If there is more, show people the light!

Rally Championship 2000 is the best sim yet. David G Fisher

"Unfortunately the realism of the GPL physics engine is superceded by the absurdity of the time travel element of the game." .... Someone has gone bananas here.... Andre On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:49:53 -0600, "Tracey A Miller" >Unfortunately the realism of the GPL physics engine is superceded by >the absurdity of the time travel element of the game. >What SCGT lacks in physics it makes up for with it's underpinning in >reality. Hopefully when WSC ships we will no longer have to sacrifice >one reality for the other

Three words... Grand. Prix. Legends. It'll blow you underwear off. I kid you not. It's really a frightening and humiliating experience. /petern

By this you mean that one must be insane not to share your fascination with 1960's F1 cars? In that case I'd guess that the majority of the worlds population must be "bananas" outside of this newsgroup. Give me GPL physics with SCGT's car selection (and ability to make our own) and I'll be in sim heaven. Don't get me wrong though, when I have to chose between physics and modern cars I boot GPL *almost* every time. "Andre Warringa" wrote > Someone has gone bananas here.... > >Unfortunately the realism of the GPL physics engine is superceded by > >the absurdity of the time travel element of the game. > >What SCGT lacks in physics it makes up for with it's underpinning in > >reality. Hopefully when WSC ships we will no longer have to sacrifice > >one reality for the other

Good points, and I probably wouldn't care too much for a current F1 sim either. I prefer cars that put a roof over my head and a somewhat similar to the vehicles I drive in real life. I do realize though that there are millions of F1 fans worldwide that would support a modern F1 sim so my preference shouldn't stop them. But W.W.II flightsims are more than just flightsims. If they were limited to just flying 1940's airplanes then yes, that would be absurd, but there is much more to it than that. Every mission can feel like a completely different game, with new enemies and new scenery all the time. If there were more strategy behind GPL I could probably lose myself in the era that it is simulating, but with no pitstops, no machine guns, and tirewear being of little concern, all we are left with is a hotlap competition. I do love the *sim* part of the game though. I spent the past 2 hours tweaking my Osring setup, and had a blast learning the new track. I'll probably spend another hour messing with it after I write this, all the while wishing it was a Viper I tweaking instead of an Eagle. <G>

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> I agree completely with you that not everyone shares my/our '60s > fascination with F1 racing, but to call 'the time travel element of > GPL absurd' doesn't make any sense to me. > Are WWII flightsims absurd? Are strategy games like Age of Empires > absurd because they are not situated in our time? > GPL is a sim of '60s F1 racing. Simply because racing (my personal > opinion, and obiously Papyrus' opinion) was far more interesting

than > current F1 racing. > Imagine Papyrus would make a current F1 sim with the physics of GPL... > I'm 100% sure I'd still prefer GPL, because F1 cars from the 60s were > far more challenging, interesting and simply more fun to drive. Not to > mention that allmost all tracks were far more challenging in that era. > Andre > On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:03:15 -0600, "Tracey A Miller" > >By this you mean that one must be insane not to share your fascination > >with 1960's F1 cars? In that case I'd guess that the majority of the > >worlds population must be "bananas" outside of this newsgroup. > >Give me GPL physics with SCGT's car selection (and ability to make our

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> >own) and I'll be in sim heaven. > >Don't get me wrong though, when I have to chose between physics and > >modern cars I boot GPL *almost* every time. > >"Andre Warringa" wrote > >> Someone has gone bananas here.... > >> >Unfortunately the realism of the GPL physics engine is

superceded > >by > >> >the absurdity of the time travel element of the game. > >> >What SCGT lacks in physics it makes up for with it's underpinning > >in > >> >reality. Hopefully when WSC ships we will no longer have to > >sacrifice > >> >one reality for the other

I agree completely with you that not everyone shares my/our '60s fascination with F1 racing, but to call 'the time travel element of GPL absurd' doesn't make any sense to me. Are WWII flightsims absurd? Are strategy games like Age of Empires absurd because they are not situated in our time? GPL is a sim of '60s F1 racing. Simply because racing (my personal opinion, and obiously Papyrus' opinion) was far more interesting than current F1 racing. Imagine Papyrus would make a current F1 sim with the physics of GPL... I'm 100% sure I'd still prefer GPL, because F1 cars from the 60s were far more challenging, interesting and simply more fun to drive. Not to mention that allmost all tracks were far more challenging in that era. Andre On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:03:15 -0600, "Tracey A Miller"

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>By this you mean that one must be insane not to share your fascination >with 1960's F1 cars? In that case I'd guess that the majority of the >worlds population must be "bananas" outside of this newsgroup. >Give me GPL physics with SCGT's car selection (and ability to make our >own) and I'll be in sim heaven. >Don't get me wrong though, when I have to chose between physics and >modern cars I boot GPL *almost* every time. >"Andre Warringa" wrote >> Someone has gone bananas here.... >> >Unfortunately the realism of the GPL physics engine is superceded >by >> >the absurdity of the time travel element of the game. >> >What SCGT lacks in physics it makes up for with it's underpinning >in >> >reality. Hopefully when WSC ships we will no longer have to >sacrifice >> >one reality for the other

And what kind of crack have you been smoking? LOL Seriously, what are your reasons for choosing RC2k for best sim yet? Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited http://simcrashes.cjb.net

If you like SCGT, then you should also enjoy Toca2!! Nascar3 gets a worthy mention as well. Rik Anthrax - - "trust the government?? what are you, some kind of moron?"

> But W.W.II flightsims are more than just flightsims. If they were > limited to just flying 1940's airplanes then yes, that would be > absurd, but there is much more to it than that. Every mission can feel > like a completely different game, with new enemies and new scenery all > the time. I prefer WWII era flight sims for very specific reasons, over simulations of modern era fighters. The fighting is similar in some ways, but very differnt in others. The tempo of the fighting, and the pilot task load are totally different. Fighting with limited power to weight ratios and short range weopons is very challenging and the concentration on three dimensional manuevering over the same just to attain some complicated weopon engagement criteria make WWII my preference over the modern era. This is similar to the differences between racing a 1500 pound 400 HP open wheel formula car and a 3000 pound 650 HP closed wheel car. The stability, maneuverability, acceleration and tactics differences are noticible and some will prefer one much more than the other. One thing you learn in large online communities is that some are there for role playing and the scenario setting is very important to them. Others are just interested in the competition and could care less for when/where/what, and the other thousands for their own thousands of reasons. WarBirds: =para= -- Matthew V. Jessick Motorsims Vehicle Dynamics Engineer (972)910-8866 Ext.125, Fax: (972)910-8216

Lots of stuff is available for SCGT. Check out gtinsider.com or littleracer.com have fun. They have over 200 real world cars crafted by private users for scgt. have fun, but remember there are more than one or two sims out there...check em out...enjoy! dave henrie

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> Hey this is a very cool site. I just bought a p3 system and I decided to > visit my local games store, when I saw a cheap game to try out. SPORTS CAR > GT! > This game rocks. I love car sims, although I wish most game companies would > consult us before release. Just to check out a silly thing called "Physics > Engine". I got up to 2467 racing days on the 1st Gran tourismo. Please tell > me I am not alone on this one. Anyways, S.C.GT is the best real game I have > ever seen. If there is more, show people the light!

Go here and go to the files page and get the 2nd file down, GPL demo! [link lost in import] I say no more! JM

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> Hey this is a very cool site. I just bought a p3 system and I decided to > visit my local games store, when I saw a cheap game to try out. SPORTS CAR > GT! > This game rocks. I love car sims, although I wish most game companies would > consult us before release. Just to check out a silly thing called "Physics > Engine". I got up to 2467 racing days on the 1st Gran tourismo. Please tell > me I am not alone on this one. Anyways, S.C.GT is the best real game I have > ever seen. If there is more, show people the light!

Just because 1967 was quite a few years ago doesn't mean it is any less "real" than what's represented in SCGT. Is GP2 a different, "absurd" reality because it is based in 1994? -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

That soap box is getting a little creaky . . . --DK

> Just because 1967 was quite a few years ago doesn't mean it is any less > "real" than what's represented in SCGT. Is GP2 a different, "absurd" > reality because it is based in 1994? That's a good question. If a tree falls in the forrest when I'm not around to hear it, did it really make a noise? I didn't hear anything. If a race took place before I was around to know about it, did it really take place? I didn't see anything. 1994 I can relate to, 1967 is my father's racing game, and he doesn't own a PC. The sad thing though is that all the racing games of my generation are just that, games. So now I'll go back to practicing Os-ring on my fathers racing sim... Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Yeah sure, whatever you say !!! ;) -- Ian Parker UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl ==

Three words....Grand Prix Legends www.papy.com GPL is to SCGT what Galaxians was to Space Invaders -/-WW

That's a strange question to ask, since I *do* play GPL. I'm not in love with the era, I think violating the laws of time is just as detrimental to my immersion in a sim as violating the laws of physics, but overall I still prefer GPL over anything else. I guess you could say I love GPL, but I still think it has flaws. I love my kids but I don't think they are perfect. I love my wife in spite of her flaws. I think you can see the pattern here. It isn't blasphemy to admit that GPL isn't all things to all people. This is a game we are talking about, not Jesus Christ. > >Unfortunately the realism of the GPL physics engine is superceded by

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> >the absurdity of the time travel element of the game. > What...? I guess you don't play WW II games either, huh? > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then

beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>Unfortunately the realism of the GPL physics engine is superceded by >the absurdity of the time travel element of the game. What...? I guess you don't play WW II games either, huh? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

". . .absurdity of the time travel element of the game." Maybe "suspension of disbelief" (which occurs with *any* fictional game--past- or present-oriented) is a better term than the somewhat overly dramatic "violation of the laws of time"? I find GPL fun and fascinating, etc., but when I step away from my desk, I don't feel the same sort of rupture--my mind ripping away from 1967 to 2000--that you do. :) A strange thread . . . DK

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> That's a strange question to ask, since I *do* play GPL. I'm not in > love with the era, I think violating the laws of time is just as > detrimental to my immersion in a sim as violating the laws of physics, > but overall I still prefer GPL over anything else. > I guess you could say I love GPL, but I still think it has flaws. I > love my kids but I don't think they are perfect. I love my wife in > spite of her flaws. I think you can see the pattern here. > It isn't blasphemy to admit that GPL isn't all things to all people. > This is a game we are talking about, not Jesus Christ. > > >Unfortunately the realism of the GPL physics engine is superceded > by > > >the absurdity of the time travel element of the game. > > What...? I guess you don't play WW II games either, huh? > > Eldred > > -- > > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > > Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then > beats you > > with experience... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I don't feel anything either, because I never really find myself immersed in the era we are supposedly simulating. Other games, such as the WWII sims that keep being brought up, have other aspects beyond just the flying to immerse you into the time period. There isn't much that can be done with the storyline of a racing game that will promote the suspension of belief needed when time travel is involved. With modern racing sims there isn't much assistance needed to bring the user into the storyline, since we see the races every week on television during the season. But those of us under 35 have no point of reference to 1960's F1 racing. > I find GPL fun and fascinating, etc., but when I step away from my desk, I > don't feel the same sort of rupture--my mind ripping away from 1967 to > 2000--that you do. :) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

LOL! -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

I think this is just an issue of semantics and perception. What if they had called GPL "Vintage Grand Prix Racers" and touted it as modern day racing of vintage GP cars on modern track configurations? Would we still be quibbling about this "time" aspect of the sim? These cars are actually vintage raced in the present day. (I believe Jack Brabham tore the hell out of one at Goodwood this year) Maybe I'm strange (well it's likely, but another subject thread...), but I have been obsessing on GPL since I acquired it simply because it is the best damned racing sim I've ever run. I am challenged by the skill levels necessary to drive these cars well. I've raced real cars off and on for (oh, God, I don't want to even think about it!) about 30 years now and I know what*** your *** over the hairy edge and hauling it back in again is like. This sim is as good as I've experienced for giving you that same experience. Just my 2 cents... Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL SCCA IT7 Mazda RX-7 WKA Briggs go-kart Group-10/NASCAR 1/24 slots Nascar 3 and Grand Prix Legends

"Brett Cammack" wrote I agree completely. GPL *is* the best racing sim I've ever ran also. If it wasn't, if there was anything else even close, I wouldn't play it. It has nothing else to offer me beyond the greatness of the physics engine. SCGT has a lot to offer me beyond it's physics engine. In fact, I would never boot SCGT for the purpose of experiencing it's physics engine. But it has modern cars - hundreds of them and more all the time, modern tracks, a career mode where you move up the ladder rather than just jumping into F1, and a decent enough physics engine to allow me to get immersed in the game.

Alien alert !!

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>That's a strange question to ask, since I *do* play GPL. I'm not in >love with the era, I think violating the laws of time is just as >detrimental to my immersion in a sim as violating the laws of physics, >but overall I still prefer GPL over anything else. >I guess you could say I love GPL, but I still think it has flaws. I >love my kids but I don't think they are perfect. I love my wife in >spite of her flaws. I think you can see the pattern here. >It isn't blasphemy to admit that GPL isn't all things to all people. >This is a game we are talking about, not Jesus Christ.

Well, it sounded like you were saying it was ridiculous to play a game set in the past... so I questioned you about WW II games... I wasn't saying it was blasphemy, just asking you to clarify your reasoning. There are PLENTY of paople who don't love(or even *like*) GPL. And actually, your comparison/analogy to Jesus Christ is absurd to *me*. I'm an atheist...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.