Well, I watched the replay. Lots of wrecks. John finished great considering
he was driving an automatic. I wont say where the grubbat dodge finished
today, but we got lots to do before the next race. Good luck Ginger on your
win.
grub
====cut and paste---------
Dave, what pisses me off is not only did you slam it into T1 making it 3
wide, you did it late, and you drove in too hard and washed
up, AND you acted like I deserved it. Forget the poor guy caught outside I
had to avoid cause of you.
It was all I could do not to wreck everyone else.
Turn off the freakin traction control next time and it won't be so obvious.
I did not 'block' you on the restart, I moved over,
passing others, at the S/F. Um, a half mile before T1 I might add.
If John doesn't kick your sorry ass out for that, I'll make it my mission to
move you each and every time, until I get kicked out.
Guys like you are why people don't race pickups.
--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com
RASCAR suspends two drivers over Pocono threats
Following on-track and newsgroup threats between Tim and David G Fisher after Pocono, admin EldredP suspended both for a race to cool tempers, while John Simmons said only intentional wrecking warranted a ban. Most supported Eldred's call, Fisher disputed it, Tim announced he was stepping away, and proposed new rules drew objections from Mitch_A.
Automated summary.
In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
I don't mind name calling and mud slinging, but there's no call for
threatening retaliation on the track.
Dave's move was (IMHO) overly aggressive considering we were only on
lap 20 AND we had just taken the green again.
Dave went in hot, went high, got loose, and Tim tried to take
advantage while going low. The outcome was not good (and that was to
be expected).
Just one of them racin' deals guys, nobody even got put into the wall
because of it.
Quoted text (24 lines)
> Well, I watched the replay. Lots of wrecks. John finished great considering > he was driving an automatic. I wont say where the grubbat dodge finished > today, but we got lots to do before the next race. Good luck Ginger on your > win. > grub > > ====cut and paste--------- > > > Dave, what pisses me off is not only did you slam it into T1 making it 3 > wide, you did it late, and you drove in too hard and washed > up, AND you acted like I deserved it. Forget the poor guy caught outside I > had to avoid cause of you. > > It was all I could do not to wreck everyone else. > > Turn off the freakin traction control next time and it won't be so obvious. > I did not 'block' you on the restart, I moved over, > passing others, at the S/F. Um, a half mile before T1 I might add. > > If John doesn't kick your sorry ass out for that, I'll make it my mission to > move you each and every time, until I get kicked out. > > Guys like you are why people don't race pickups.
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> [email hidden] says...
> > Well, I watched the replay. Lots of wrecks. John finished greatconsidering
> > he was driving an automatic. I wont say where the grubbat dodge finished
> > today, but we got lots to do before the next race. Good luck Ginger onyour
outside I
> > had to avoid cause of you.
> >
> > It was all I could do not to wreck everyone else.
> >
> > Turn off the freakin traction control next time and it won't be soobvious.
> > I did not 'block' you on the restart, I moved over,
> > passing others, at the S/F. Um, a half mile before T1 I might add.
> >
> > If John doesn't kick your sorry ass out for that, I'll make it mymission to
Tim said "watch your back 19" on the track, and then threatened to wreck me
again here in ras tonight.
Doesn't that get someone banned?
David G Fisher
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > win. > > grub > > > > ====cut and paste--------- > > > > > > Dave, what pisses me off is not only did you slam it into T1 making it 3 > > wide, you did it late, and you drove in too hard and washed > > up, AND you acted like I deserved it. Forget the poor guy caughtQuoted text (16 lines)
> > move you each and every time, until I get kicked out. > > > > Guys like you are why people don't race pickups. > > I don't mind name calling and mud slinging, but there's no call for > threatening retaliation on the track. > > Dave's move was (IMHO) overly aggressive considering we were only on > lap 20 AND we had just taken the green again. > > Dave went in hot, went high, got loose, and Tim tried to take > advantage while going low. The outcome was not good (and that was to > be expected). > > Just one of them racin' deals guys, nobody even got put into the wall > because of it.In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
No, but intentional wrecking will.
Besides, I wasn't even aware there was a issue between you and tim.
You were both pretty much equally at fault on that incident.
Quoted text (53 lines)
> > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > Well, I watched the replay. Lots of wrecks. John finished great > considering > > > he was driving an automatic. I wont say where the grubbat dodge finished > > > today, but we got lots to do before the next race. Good luck Ginger on > your > > > win. > > > grub > > > > > > ====cut and paste--------- > > > > > > > > > Dave, what pisses me off is not only did you slam it into T1 making it 3 > > > wide, you did it late, and you drove in too hard and washed > > > up, AND you acted like I deserved it. Forget the poor guy caught > outside I > > > had to avoid cause of you. > > > > > > It was all I could do not to wreck everyone else. > > > > > > Turn off the freakin traction control next time and it won't be so > obvious. > > > I did not 'block' you on the restart, I moved over, > > > passing others, at the S/F. Um, a half mile before T1 I might add. > > > > > > If John doesn't kick your sorry ass out for that, I'll make it my > mission to > > > move you each and every time, until I get kicked out. > > > > > > Guys like you are why people don't race pickups. > > > > I don't mind name calling and mud slinging, but there's no call for > > threatening retaliation on the track. > > > > Dave's move was (IMHO) overly aggressive considering we were only on > > lap 20 AND we had just taken the green again. > > > > Dave went in hot, went high, got loose, and Tim tried to take > > advantage while going low. The outcome was not good (and that was to > > be expected). > > > > Just one of them racin' deals guys, nobody even got put into the wall > > because of it. > > Tim said "watch your back 19" on the track, and then threatened to wreck me > again here in ras tonight. > > Doesn't that get someone banned? >Well John, apparently it does if you ask Eldred.
fwiw, If you want to suspend someone for arguing in a NG you'll be racing by
yourself lol. Unless I'm mistaken, that's a first for this group.
In hindsight, I should not have been there Saturday. I hadn't practiced that
much since I really only wanted to race Chicago before the patch but the numbers
were up in RASCAR and that's always inviting. Sounds like bs I know, but the
suspension doesn't really matter much since I had already pretty much decided I
wasn't going to race anyway. There's always another league if I really need to
race.
But nice to know there are 'rules' ... and then there are 'rules'.
:)
--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>> >
> > Tim said "watch your back 19" on the track, and then threatened to wreck me
> > again here in ras tonight.
> >
> > Doesn't that get someone banned?
> >
>
> No, but intentional wrecking will.
>
> Besides, I wasn't even aware there was a issue between you and tim.
> You were both pretty much equally at fault on that incident.
Eldred made that decision on his own. Everyone knows I come out of
some of those races lokking for someone's head, but I've never been
mad enough to suggest inappropriate behavior on the track, and I
think that's what pushed Eldred over the edge.
In all honesty, we already have enough accidental contact, we don't
need to add intentional contact to the mix (although I seriously
doubt either you or Dave would have actually resorted to that).
I don't want you, Dave, or anyone else to quit. Besides, if you
quit, Huggins will keep winning. :)
I keep hoping we can do more racing than pacing, but lately, that
hasn't been the case. My wife actually had dinner ready 4 laps
before the end of the race (she was surprised we were still racing
three hours after we started). This accident crap has got to stop.
1) If people have a problem with the setup, they should explore the
use of the driving aids.
2) If people want to find speed without giving up control, they
should practice.
3) Every weekend, everybody should evaluate whether or not they
should even be on the track (and I don't care how good they are at
racing). I do it every week, especially since the 2nd week of July.
4) EVERYBODY SHOULD PRACTICE at least three days out of the week. I
have to practice more because I can't shift right now. I also have to
turn on aids I don't normally use to help keep the car on the track
and maintain control.
5) People have to be ready to back off in dicey situations. I think
you should have waited for Dave to get it straightened out before
attempting a pass, and I'm sure that if you did an honest re-
evaluation of the incident, you'll agree. I also think Dave should
not have forced a 3-wide situation on a restart going into turn 1.
6) People have to decide who they can trust in close racing, and
understand that sometimes "shit happens". I trust a lot of people in
RASCAR, but at the same time, I wouldn't give some of the guys even
the slightest benefit of that trust. In order to do any of that, you
have to be able to pretty much know how someone acts in various
situations.
7) Everyone should study the replays and watch the good racing as
well as the bad. You learn a lot about a driver when you do that.
For instance, they would notice that I race hard *all* the time, and
I will take advantage of any opening or moment of weakness, but at
the same time, I'll generally hold my line and give up a spot if it
doesn't smell right. However, make no mistake - I will NOT just let
anyone go by uncontested (I hate it when Larry tells me "thanks", as
if I let him go - believe me, I was racing as hard as I could at the
time - he got by me because he was faster, not because I allowed it).
I have yet to run some laps at Indy with an auto trans, so I don't
even know if I'll be there yet (but right now, I don't see any reason
why not).
I've run some practice laps at Watkins Glen at I'm less than a second
off my best lap there, and it feels okay despite the weird-ass
shifting the sim wants to do, so I'll probably show up for that one
(I love road courses in a stockcar).
Short tracks will be iffy, and I won't be around for Michigan because
I don't really like the track. Maybe I'll join those races and
perform duties as race admin and award black flags to people for
doing stupid shit. :)
The real bitch of this thing is that I won't have use of my left hand
until probably sometime in November or December - just in time for
the season to end.
In article <mFTUa.293264$[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
Quoted text (37 lines)
> Well John, apparently it does if you ask Eldred. > > fwiw, If you want to suspend someone for arguing in a NG you'll be racing by > yourself lol. Unless I'm mistaken, that's a first for this group. > > In hindsight, I should not have been there Saturday. I hadn't practiced that > much since I really only wanted to race Chicago before the patch but the numbers > were up in RASCAR and that's always inviting. Sounds like bs I know, but the > suspension doesn't really matter much since I had already pretty much decided I > wasn't going to race anyway. There's always another league if I really need to > race. > > But nice to know there are 'rules' ... and then there are 'rules'. > > :) > > -- > Tim White > www.intracmotorsports.com > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >> > > > > Tim said "watch your back 19" on the track, and then threatened to wreck me > > > again here in ras tonight. > > > > > > Doesn't that get someone banned? > > > > > > > No, but intentional wrecking will. > > > > Besides, I wasn't even aware there was a issue between you and tim. > > You were both pretty much equally at fault on that incident. > > >Dammit... I had no choice but to miss the Race, only my second this year
(the first was because my Cable Connection was down) :(
A house project (Hedges & Gardens) took 4 hours longer than expected. Since
the folks that were helping me drove almost 2 hours to get to my house, I
couldn't just stop for the race :(
I hope everyone had a good time!
-Larry
"grub" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Well, I watched the replay. Lots of wrecks. John finished greatconsidering
> he was driving an automatic. I wont say where the grubbat dodge finished
> today, but we got lots to do before the next race. Good luck Ginger onyour
I
> had to avoid cause of you.
>
> It was all I could do not to wreck everyone else.
>
> Turn off the freakin traction control next time and it won't be soobvious.
> I did not 'block' you on the restart, I moved over,
> passing others, at the S/F. Um, a half mile before T1 I might add.
>
> If John doesn't kick your sorry ass out for that, I'll make it my missionto
Quoted text (9 lines)
> win. > grub > > ====cut and paste--------- > > > Dave, what pisses me off is not only did you slam it into T1 making it 3 > wide, you did it late, and you drove in too hard and washed > up, AND you acted like I deserved it. Forget the poor guy caught outsideQuoted text (11 lines)
> move you each and every time, until I get kicked out. > > Guys like you are why people don't race pickups. > > -- > Tim White > www.intracmotorsports.com > > > >In article <mFTUa.293264$[email hidden]>, "Tim"
<[email hidden]> writes:
>But nice to know there are 'rules' ... and then there are 'rules'.
What are you trying to say here? Are you insinuating that I'm doing something
just to fuck with YOU? Not even close to being true, man...
Eldred
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
I had to miss it too, one of my favorite tracks to race on.
I ran some practice for fun, but had to leave before qualifying started.
It does sound like one Hell of a race tho'.
I also have to miss Indy, the track I feel is my best track (race it a lot,
hometown and all).
But I'll be thinking of everyone as I drink Coronas and lay on the beach.
Dave (KnektR #50)
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:UQUUa.5824$5b7.4734@lakeread01...
> Dammit... I had no choice but to miss the Race, only my second this year
> (the first was because my Cable Connection was down) :(
>
> A house project (Hedges & Gardens) took 4 hours longer than expected.Since
Quoted text (7 lines)
> the folks that were helping me drove almost 2 hours to get to my house, I > couldn't just stop for the race :( > > I hope everyone had a good time! > > -Larry >Eldred, of course not.
I was just commenting on the fact that you and John answered the same basic
question two different ways, at about the same time lol
John told Dave no one gets kicked out for threats, but intentional wrecking
will, you suspended us for threats.
Thats what I meant by conflicting rules.
--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <mFTUa.293264$[email hidden]>, "Tim"
> <[email hidden]> writes:
>
> >But nice to know there are 'rules' ... and then there are 'rules'.
>
> What are you trying to say here? Are you insinuating that I'm doing something
> just to fuck with YOU? Not even close to being true, man...
>
In article <ssZUa.353177$[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
Well, I didn't think anyone would really do anything more than
thumping their chests and gnashing their teeth. I would honestly be
surprised if you wrecked anyone on purpose (or if Dave would, for
that matter).
We're also talking about two different things here - banning is
forever, a suspension is temporary. If Eldred wants to suspend
someone for a race or two, that's his call (as was already mentioned
- he controls the invite list on the race server).
I'll let Eldred give the reasons for the suspension because he didn't
ask my opinion, so I don't know precisely why he did it. Maybe he
felt that you guys needed some time to cool off.
So, you weren't banned, you were just suspended for a race. I think
maybe if you swallowed some pride and talked to Eldred, he may lift
the suspension (no guarantees though, but it might do some good).
---------
I know some of you out there are thinking that I'm a fine one to be
acting impartial since more often than not, I'm not satisfied with
the way RASCAR races turn out for me. I am always willing to shine a
harsh light on what I see as obvious mistakes made by others, and
some of you may even remember that little thing between me an Mitch
last year. However, like most disagreements, they just ebb away and
we move on to the next track, a little more wary of our fellow
racers.
I certainly didn't want to take any chance on burying Mitch in the
wall in subsequent events, and I'm pretty sure he felt the same way.
I am confident that Tim and Dave can move beyond this weekend as
well, and may even develop a more amiable online relationship because
they now know precisely where the other stands.
I know down deep you guys still want to race in RASCAR. :)
Quoted text (9 lines)
> Eldred, of course not. > > I was just commenting on the fact that you and John answered the same basic > question two different ways, at about the same time lol > John told Dave no one gets kicked out for threats, but intentional wrecking > will, you suspended us for threats. > > Thats what I meant by conflicting rules. >Dude, you have been drinking Coronas for the past two weeks at the beach.
How about giving us working folks a break.
"KnektR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:QUYUa.25536$[email hidden]...
> I had to miss it too, one of my favorite tracks to race on.
> I ran some practice for fun, but had to leave before qualifying started.
> It does sound like one Hell of a race tho'.
>
> I also have to miss Indy, the track I feel is my best track (race it alot,
I
Quoted text (16 lines)
> hometown and all). > But I'll be thinking of everyone as I drink Coronas and lay on the beach. > > > Dave (KnektR #50) > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UQUUa.5824$5b7.4734@lakeread01... > > Dammit... I had no choice but to miss the Race, only my second this year > > (the first was because my Cable Connection was down) :( > > > > A house project (Hedges & Gardens) took 4 hours longer than expected. > Since > > the folks that were helping me drove almost 2 hours to get to my house,Quoted text (8 lines)
> > couldn't just stop for the race :( > > > > I hope everyone had a good time! > > > > -Larry > > > >Look at it this way. Not very many people get to be members of the RASCAR
suspension list.
;)
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <ssZUa.353177$[email hidden]>,
> [email hidden] says...
> > Eldred, of course not.
> >
> > I was just commenting on the fact that you and John answered the samebasic
> > question two different ways, at about the same time lol
> > John told Dave no one gets kicked out for threats, but intentionalwrecking
Quoted text (43 lines)
> > will, you suspended us for threats. > > > > Thats what I meant by conflicting rules. > > > > Well, I didn't think anyone would really do anything more than > thumping their chests and gnashing their teeth. I would honestly be > surprised if you wrecked anyone on purpose (or if Dave would, for > that matter). > > We're also talking about two different things here - banning is > forever, a suspension is temporary. If Eldred wants to suspend > someone for a race or two, that's his call (as was already mentioned > - he controls the invite list on the race server). > > I'll let Eldred give the reasons for the suspension because he didn't > ask my opinion, so I don't know precisely why he did it. Maybe he > felt that you guys needed some time to cool off. > > So, you weren't banned, you were just suspended for a race. I think > maybe if you swallowed some pride and talked to Eldred, he may lift > the suspension (no guarantees though, but it might do some good). > > --------- > > I know some of you out there are thinking that I'm a fine one to be > acting impartial since more often than not, I'm not satisfied with > the way RASCAR races turn out for me. I am always willing to shine a > harsh light on what I see as obvious mistakes made by others, and > some of you may even remember that little thing between me an Mitch > last year. However, like most disagreements, they just ebb away and > we move on to the next track, a little more wary of our fellow > racers. > > I certainly didn't want to take any chance on burying Mitch in the > wall in subsequent events, and I'm pretty sure he felt the same way. > I am confident that Tim and Dave can move beyond this weekend as > well, and may even develop a more amiable online relationship because > they now know precisely where the other stands. > > I know down deep you guys still want to race in RASCAR. :) > >>I'll let Eldred give the reasons for the suspension because he didn't
>ask my opinion, so I don't know precisely why he did it. Maybe he
>felt that you guys needed some time to cool off.
Good guess. That was all it was... They're both welcome to stay in the group
long-term, but at least one has apparently made his decision.
Eldred
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (8 lines)
>Eldred, of course not. > >I was just commenting on the fact that you and John answered the same basic >question two different ways, at about the same time lol >John told Dave no one gets kicked out for threats, but intentional wrecking >will, you suspended us for threats. > >Thats what I meant by conflicting rules.
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> Fair enough. Yes, I made the call, without consulting John or Ed. I feltit
> was the best way to cool tempers between the two 'combatants'. I reallyhave
> no way of *knowing* if either of you would have followed through on your
> threats to wreck the other. But since the possibilty had been stated(and
> *very* publically), I think it would have been irresponsible for me NOT totake
> action.
> So, this was the action I took. Hey, if people think I'm a bad leagueadmin,
> that's their choice. I do the best I can...
>
> Eldred
> --
> Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info onmy
> homepage)
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
>
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
You have my confidence, I believe you are acting in good faith as an admin.
Sean
Thanks.
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Considering Im the only member of the suspension list I welcome new members.
Remember I have seniority ;)
Mitch
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Thanks.
> --
> Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info onmy
> homepage)
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
>
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
I admire your critical thought here Eldred.
grub
"McWhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>
> > Fair enough. Yes, I made the call, without consulting John or Ed. Ifelt
> it
> > was the best way to cool tempers between the two 'combatants'. I really
> have
> > no way of *knowing* if either of you would have followed through on your
> > threats to wreck the other. But since the possibilty had beenstated(and
> > *very* publically), I think it would have been irresponsible for me NOTto
admin.
>
> Sean
>
>
Quoted text (17 lines)
> take > > action. > > So, this was the action I took. Hey, if people think I'm a bad league > admin, > > that's their choice. I do the best I can... > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on > my > > homepage) > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > You have my confidence, I believe you are acting in good faith as an
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> >Eldred, of course not.
> >
> >I was just commenting on the fact that you and John answered the samebasic
> >question two different ways, at about the same time lol
> >John told Dave no one gets kicked out for threats, but intentionalwrecking
> >will, you suspended us for threats.
> >
> >Thats what I meant by conflicting rules.
>
> Fair enough. Yes, I made the call, without consulting John or Ed. I feltit
> was the best way to cool tempers between the two 'combatants'. I reallyhave
> no way of *knowing* if either of you would have followed through on your
> threats to wreck the other. But since the possibilty had been stated(and
> *very* publically), I think it would have been irresponsible for me NOT totake
> action.
> So, this was the action I took. Hey, if people think I'm a bad leagueadmin,
> that's their choice. I do the best I can...
>
> Eldred
AFTER he threatened to wreck me, and you and John said nothing, I told him
to keep his ass away from me.
After he threatend to wreck me here, and JS said nothing, I told him to keep
his ass away from me.
There's a BIG difference between the person who initially walks up to
someone and threatens to beat their head in, and what that person (who's
never threatened ANYONE) says in response.
If you don't understand that, then maybe you shouldn't be the administrator.
David G Fisher
Don't know any of you so I am not defending one over the
other. However...
I applaud Eldred for his fair call... Both claim they are not guilty
but obviously both are. Just take it like a man, miss the next race,
shake (virtual) hands and have fun at the following race. Learning to
forgive and forget is just as much a part of racing as anything else
(just ask the real drivers!). If you really want to better yourself
as a race car driver, just take it has a positive lesson (not a
punishment from Eldred). Remember, it is just a darn video game...
I have been trying to gather enough confidence to try racing online.
Been told the community is fun and willing to let others (as long as
they have put enough effort into running clean and decent lap times
offline) have a go at it (we all need to start somewhere). Must admit
that after this NG exchange, I am now totally intimidated and may have
to write off the online experience (even though I practiced a lot
offline and made a point of learning to stay clean).
Hope you guys can turn this anger into positive energy! Andre
In article <[email hidden]>, "grub"
<[email hidden]> writes:
Thanks to both of you.
Eldred
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (8 lines)
>I admire your critical thought here Eldred. >grub >> >> You have my confidence, I believe you are acting in good faith as an >admin. >> >> SeanIn article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher"
<[email hidden]> writes:
Maybe I shouldn't. But that isn't the point now, is it?
A simple on track incident(in a fucking GAME, ok?) has escalated to the point
where two drivers now hate each other, threats fly back and forth, feelings are
hurt, etc. This exchange and the fallout from it has already caused one driver
to retire, one of the admins to quit, and the majority of readers in this
newsgroup are sitting back laughing their ASSES off! All this over a stupid
fucking GAME! Geez, if people get so worked up over something that really
doesn't matter much in the scheme of life, then we'll NEVER be able to get
along when REAL issues arrive.
You've made some dive-bomb passes in the past, some of them against me. You
made a move in this instance that some also consider to be a reckless move.
Tim threatened that he would wreck you. While that's very unsportsmanlike, he
didn't actually DO anything yet. His guilt is based on what he MAY have done,
which none of us have any way of knowing for certain.
Look - I have two guys arguing. Each is *certain* - absolutely, positively,
beyond a shadow of a doubt - that he's right, and the other is wrong. There is
no winner in a situation like this. I'm trying to be as fair as possible under
the cirumstances. That's why _both_ of you got a *1* race suspension. But
obviously, you have no interest in seeing it from my point of view. I fully
expected both of you to sit back, take a deep breath, come back in 2 weeks and
enjoy racing against each other again. I made a call that I considered in the
fairest interest of all involved, admitted it, and stand by it. As I said
before, I'm doing the best I can.
If you don't understand that, then maybe you shouldn't be in the league.
Eldred
--
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Quoted text (11 lines)
>AFTER he threatened to wreck me, and you and John said nothing, I told him >to keep his ass away from me. > >After he threatend to wreck me here, and JS said nothing, I told him to keep >his ass away from me. > >There's a BIG difference between the person who initially walks up to >someone and threatens to beat their head in, and what that person (who's >never threatened ANYONE) says in response. > >If you don't understand that, then maybe you shouldn't be the administrator.Come on David. You really are being aggressive here with Eldred. I think
that he is a good adminstrator.
"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
felt
> it
> > was the best way to cool tempers between the two 'combatants'. I really
> have
> > no way of *knowing* if either of you would have followed through on your
> > threats to wreck the other. But since the possibilty had beenstated(and
> > *very* publically), I think it would have been irresponsible for me NOTto
keep
administrator.
>
> David G Fisher
>
>
Quoted text (15 lines)
> > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > >Eldred, of course not. > > > > > >I was just commenting on the fact that you and John answered the same > basic > > >question two different ways, at about the same time lol > > >John told Dave no one gets kicked out for threats, but intentional > wrecking > > >will, you suspended us for threats. > > > > > >Thats what I meant by conflicting rules. > > > > Fair enough. Yes, I made the call, without consulting John or Ed. IQuoted text (12 lines)
> take > > action. > > So, this was the action I took. Hey, if people think I'm a bad league > admin, > > that's their choice. I do the best I can... > > > > Eldred > > AFTER he threatened to wreck me, and you and John said nothing, I told him > to keep his ass away from me. > > After he threatend to wreck me here, and JS said nothing, I told him toQuoted text (7 lines)
> his ass away from me. > > There's a BIG difference between the person who initially walks up to > someone and threatens to beat their head in, and what that person (who's > never threatened ANYONE) says in response. > > If you don't understand that, then maybe you shouldn't be theRASCAR and racing online is a great experience. I was so nervous the first
time that I raced here. It really felt like the real thing. The first time I
raced for real at our local track, I'm suprised that I didn't have a heart
attack during the practice laps.It was an excitment that only UDAY could
discribe with his viagra. Truly a wonderful thing until I spun a bearing.
Online racing dont cost nuthin, and these guys are great. Tim is a class act
and I have learned a lot from him, and David is a one of a kind racer that I
love racing against. This sim is so realistic, that the drama that plays out
every week is almost verbatum to what goes on at the local track. The only
difference is that you dont get hit in the head with a crowbar by your
competetors pit lizzard's wife. They get out of hand and usually draw the
guys into a shoving match. Nothing wrong with that until you wake up
realizing that those type of people have absolutely nothing to lose except
maybe their singlewide. They would love to drag you into court and win some
of your stuff....maybe all your stuff. Not my kind of fun. RASCAR provides
the added benefit of sheltering you from this liability.
Im startin to sound like Ed now.
Sorry. :)
grub
"Melandre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (21 lines)
> Don't know any of you so I am not defending one over the > other. However... > > I applaud Eldred for his fair call... Both claim they are not guilty > but obviously both are. Just take it like a man, miss the next race, > shake (virtual) hands and have fun at the following race. Learning to > forgive and forget is just as much a part of racing as anything else > (just ask the real drivers!). If you really want to better yourself > as a race car driver, just take it has a positive lesson (not a > punishment from Eldred). Remember, it is just a darn video game... > > I have been trying to gather enough confidence to try racing online. > Been told the community is fun and willing to let others (as long as > they have put enough effort into running clean and decent lap times > offline) have a go at it (we all need to start somewhere). Must admit > that after this NG exchange, I am now totally intimidated and may have > to write off the online experience (even though I practiced a lot > offline and made a point of learning to stay clean). > > Hope you guys can turn this anger into positive energy! Andre >
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> You've made some dive-bomb passes in the past, some of them against me
Bullshit. NO ONE in all the RASCAR races (probably over 60 now) has ever
complained about me making "dive bomb" passes.
EVER.
You really should take that comment back.
Damn, I could really say something here..........but I won't because as I've
said before, it's not my practice (but that may be about to change for
certain individuals) to criticize people's driving.
> You
> made a move in this instance that some also consider to be a recklessmove.
> Tim threatened that he would wreck you. While that's veryunsportsmanlike, he
> didn't actually DO anything yet.
No, he made a mistake at T1 a couple laps later and had to retire. Didn't
get his chance. He came here and promised he would do it in each and every
race after until either I or he was gone from RASCAR. How would YOU like to
read that????? How would you like to set aside valuable time out of your
weekend to race, wondering if someone was going to intentionally put you out
of a race?
> His guilt is based on what he MAY have done,
> which none of us have any way of knowing for certain.
> Look - I have two guys arguing. Each is *certain* - absolutely,positively,
> beyond a shadow of a doubt - that he's right, and the other is wrong.There is
> no winner in a situation like this. I'm trying to be as fair as possibleunder
> the cirumstances. That's why _both_ of you got a *1* race suspension.But
> obviously, you have no interest in seeing it from my point of view. Ifully
> expected both of you to sit back, take a deep breath, come back in 2 weeksand
> enjoy racing against each other again. I made a call that I considered inthe
> fairest interest of all involved, admitted it, and stand by it. As I said
> before, I'm doing the best I can.
>
> If you don't understand that, then maybe you shouldn't be in the league.
>
> Eldred
Is that some kind of threat to ban me permanently???
David G Fisher
Well don't be intimidated, and please do join in.
This would of been a nothing incident that no one even noticed (didn't even
bring out a yellow) except a threat to wreck followed. That was followed by
more threats to wreck me here at ras.
As for myself, I have never in seven years of online racing EVER said
something negative to someone during an online race. I certainly never
threatened to wreck them. I've had hundreds of races ruined by people doing
dumb things, and I've never said a word to them.
I've raced against top drivers and crap drivers in various sims over the
past seven years. I've beta tested sims, and I even beta'd Gerry's (joke)
VROC and not one person has ever bitched at me about my driving during a
race, and I've never bitched at them. I
If you don't join RASCAR, it won't be because of me. I don't care how good
you are, and if you make a mistake and end my race, you won't hear a word
from me except a "np" message. That's all anyone's ever gotten from me.
David G Fisher
"Melandre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (21 lines)
> Don't know any of you so I am not defending one over the > other. However... > > I applaud Eldred for his fair call... Both claim they are not guilty > but obviously both are. Just take it like a man, miss the next race, > shake (virtual) hands and have fun at the following race. Learning to > forgive and forget is just as much a part of racing as anything else > (just ask the real drivers!). If you really want to better yourself > as a race car driver, just take it has a positive lesson (not a > punishment from Eldred). Remember, it is just a darn video game... > > I have been trying to gather enough confidence to try racing online. > Been told the community is fun and willing to let others (as long as > they have put enough effort into running clean and decent lap times > offline) have a go at it (we all need to start somewhere). Must admit > that after this NG exchange, I am now totally intimidated and may have > to write off the online experience (even though I practiced a lot > offline and made a point of learning to stay clean). > > Hope you guys can turn this anger into positive energy! Andre >Cool! I might give it a go after all (after practicing for another
couple of weeks)...
You guys doing the RASCAR thing seem to have a great thing
going...make sure you don't... wreck it (sorry couldn't avoid the
punt)!
se you online in a few days or weeks...
Andre
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:19:14 -0400, "David G Fisher"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (48 lines)
>Well don't be intimidated, and please do join in. > >This would of been a nothing incident that no one even noticed (didn't even >bring out a yellow) except a threat to wreck followed. That was followed by >more threats to wreck me here at ras. > >As for myself, I have never in seven years of online racing EVER said >something negative to someone during an online race. I certainly never >threatened to wreck them. I've had hundreds of races ruined by people doing >dumb things, and I've never said a word to them. > >I've raced against top drivers and crap drivers in various sims over the >past seven years. I've beta tested sims, and I even beta'd Gerry's (joke) >VROC and not one person has ever bitched at me about my driving during a >race, and I've never bitched at them. I > >If you don't join RASCAR, it won't be because of me. I don't care how good >you are, and if you make a mistake and end my race, you won't hear a word >from me except a "np" message. That's all anyone's ever gotten from me. > >David G Fisher > > > >"Melandre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Don't know any of you so I am not defending one over the >> other. However... >> >> I applaud Eldred for his fair call... Both claim they are not guilty >> but obviously both are. Just take it like a man, miss the next race, >> shake (virtual) hands and have fun at the following race. Learning to >> forgive and forget is just as much a part of racing as anything else >> (just ask the real drivers!). If you really want to better yourself >> as a race car driver, just take it has a positive lesson (not a >> punishment from Eldred). Remember, it is just a darn video game... >> >> I have been trying to gather enough confidence to try racing online. >> Been told the community is fun and willing to let others (as long as >> they have put enough effort into running clean and decent lap times >> offline) have a go at it (we all need to start somewhere). Must admit >> that after this NG exchange, I am now totally intimidated and may have >> to write off the online experience (even though I practiced a lot >> offline and made a point of learning to stay clean). >> >> Hope you guys can turn this anger into positive energy! Andre >> >I was in the Bell Mobility Village (row 1) right at the Start/Finish
line so I saw the obvious error by the race marshall. Couldn't
believe he waved the green flag!
I am not sure if you saw it (it wasn't well publicized during or after
the race) but in the next 2 laps following the start, at the
Start/Finish line, Tracy gave the finger to the marshall twice! In
fact, the fellow sitting beside me managed to get a perfect shot of it
on his digital camera. Now I wish I had given him my email address so
that he could email a copy of the picture. This would be a keeper for
sure!
My wife was totally pissed off at Dominguez for his stupid move on
Carpentier. She is a #32 fan and we were all hoping for a Players
Team 1,2 finish. But at least we got #1 with Paul!
Now if I can only figure out a way to be in Montreal in late August I
could complete the Canadian Molson Indy trio!
Andre
OK here goes. First Eldred youre a great guy in the wrong situation. (We
all luv ya man whether we agree or not)
I just read the proposed ruleset for RASCAR. Im not at all happy about any
but the flaming during a race. In fact I dislike em so much that Ill join
Tim on the sidelines if they go into effect. I sure don't want it to get to
that but I feel that strongly. I mean really, a BF for chatting?? If it
disturbs anyone that much then turn the fn chat off. It sure as hell isnt
the root cause of our problems. I really dislike the "my way or the hiway
attitude" thats showing its ugly head. Thats the opposite of what was
talked about when RASCAR was being created.
That being said Ill tell ya I wasnt at all happy about my suspension last
year and felt you over stepped your bounds by doing it imo unneccasarily,
hell I tapped John in the rear bumper with less force than I bump draft at
Daytona, he understood my meaning and my replay clearly showed me on the
yellow line when we did make contact on the restart. I feel the same way in
the Pocono circumstances. Both Tim and David are grown men and neither did
anything to warrant a suspension. This is a public NG that was here way
before RASCAR and will be long after and as such open for any and all posts
*ANY* usenet user decides he/she wants to post. Now I would agree with a
suspension if and when we do have a no flaming during a race rule (which we
dont have as of yet).
Don't take this as a put-down cause it inst meant to be. Im just very
concerned RASCAR is heading in a wrong direction because of a bunch of hot
headed posts after a few really bad races. If everyone preached
sportsmanship maybe we wouldnt be having this discussion at all. That
should be ALL of our jobs but it seems Ed and I are the only ones that see
that logic. Peer pressure can be used for good as well as evil.
Mitch
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
my
> homepage)
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
>
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (17 lines)
> In article <[email hidden]>, "grub" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I admire your critical thought here Eldred. > >grub > > >> > >> You have my confidence, I believe you are acting in good faith as an > >admin. > >> > >> Sean > > Thanks to both of you. > > Eldred > -- > Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info onoooops...ignore this message here. was meant for another reply
below...
On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 05:22:19 GMT, Melandre
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (20 lines)
>I was in the Bell Mobility Village (row 1) right at the Start/Finish >line so I saw the obvious error by the race marshall. Couldn't >believe he waved the green flag! > >I am not sure if you saw it (it wasn't well publicized during or after >the race) but in the next 2 laps following the start, at the >Start/Finish line, Tracy gave the finger to the marshall twice! In >fact, the fellow sitting beside me managed to get a perfect shot of it >on his digital camera. Now I wish I had given him my email address so >that he could email a copy of the picture. This would be a keeper for >sure! > >My wife was totally pissed off at Dominguez for his stupid move on >Carpentier. She is a #32 fan and we were all hoping for a Players >Team 1,2 finish. But at least we got #1 with Paul! > >Now if I can only figure out a way to be in Montreal in late August I >could complete the Canadian Molson Indy trio! > >Andregrub wrote:
> Come on David. You really are being aggressive here with Eldred. I think
> that he is a good adminstrator.
Yeah, come on David, he puts a lot of work in, as do the other two, not
to mention putting up a server! My advice to you is to not post on the
subject for a couple of days. Spend the time instead on the track racing
against the AI so you can work on your racecraft. Then take the
suspension like a good laddie, come back in two weeks and it will all be
forgotten.
Gerry
>If everyone preached
>sportsmanship maybe we wouldnt be having this discussion at all. That
>should be ALL of our jobs but it seems Ed and I are the only ones that see
>that logic.
I *have* tried, Mitch...
Eldred
--
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homepage)
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
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Quoted text (10 lines)
>"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> You've made some dive-bomb passes in the past, some of them against me > >Bullshit. NO ONE in all the RASCAR races (probably over 60 now) has ever >complained about me making "dive bomb" passes. > >EVER. > >You really should take that comment back.Quoted text (11 lines)
>Damn, I could really say something here..........but I won't because as I've >said before, it's not my practice (but that may be about to change for >certain individuals) to criticize people's driving. >No, he made a mistake at T1 a couple laps later and had to retire. Didn't >get his chance. He came here and promised he would do it in each and every >race after until either I or he was gone from RASCAR. How would YOU like to >read that????? How would you like to set aside valuable time out of your >weekend to race, wondering if someone was going to intentionally put you out >of a race?
"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Whether you did it before or not, I would tend to believe Eldred. I had a
perfect view of what you and Tim did. I was the first car to pass the 26
after you guys pushed him up. You both dive bombed the first turn. I
don't care what you call it, there was no reason that early in the race to
take three wide into that corner, BOTH of you were wrong!
<SNIP>
>
> No, he made a mistake at T1 a couple laps later and had to retire. Didn't
> get his chance. He came here and promised he would do it in each and every
> race after until either I or he was gone from RASCAR. How would YOU liketo
> read that????? How would you like to set aside valuable time out of your
> weekend to race, wondering if someone was going to intentionally put youout
> of a race?
How about you chill out and stop crying wolf, you did not help matters. You
could simply have let Tim's tantrum play out and the rest of the drivers
calm him down. But nooooo, you have to come in here saying oh, oh, look
what he said. You were trying to get him banned over threats and that is
just as wrong. Do you really think any other driver in RASCAR would have
allowed that? He would have been booted for sure at the first sign of
agression.
><SNIP>
> >
> > If you don't understand that, then maybe you shouldn't be in the league.
> >
> > Eldred
>
> Is that some kind of threat to ban me permanently???
Geez, how thick are you?? I would say that is a snipe at you in reference
to your *threat* to take his admin job away
>
> David G Fisher
>
>Yes, As I am sure is obvious in the tone of my posts during this thread, I
am personnaly not happy with Tim or Dave. Neither one of them is willing to
accept any blame over the incident, Both should go back and watch that
replay from other drivers perspective, closely watch it and try to realize
what we are seeing. Then come back in here and apologize for being ASSES.
My vote is for this conversation to die, no new rules and for drivers to
realize that gaining one or ten positions on lap 20 of an 80 lap race means
nothing. Patience, Patience, Patience.
Sean
Quoted text (11 lines)
> > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > You've made some dive-bomb passes in the past, some of them against me > > Bullshit. NO ONE in all the RASCAR races (probably over 60 now) has ever > complained about me making "dive bomb" passes. > > EVER. > > You really should take that comment back.
How apropriate that todays race on SPEED channel, Cale Yarborough and
Donny? Allison fighting after crashing in the turn .
Sean
Im trying to make a snapshot from the fight my avatar on Racesincentral as
we speak Sean :)
"McWhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (7 lines)
> > How apropriate that todays race on SPEED channel, Cale Yarborough and > Donny? Allison fighting after crashing in the turn . > > Sean > >In article <[email hidden]>, "McWhom"
<[email hidden]> writes:
>Whether you did it before or not, I would tend to believe Eldred. I had a
>perfect view of what you and Tim did. I was the first car to pass the 26
>after you guys pushed him up. You both dive bombed the first turn. I
>don't care what you call it, there was no reason that early in the race to
>take three wide into that corner, BOTH of you were wrong!
Actually, the 2-wide didn't bother me. I had already planned to let Tim by,
and I left him enough room. I obviously left TOO much room. I just didn't
expect *3*-wide. I guess I *should* have, given the personalities in the
group.
Eldred
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
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EldredP wrote:
>
> Actually, the 2-wide didn't bother me. I had already planned to let Tim by,
> and I left him enough room. I obviously left TOO much room. I just didn't
> expect *3*-wide. I guess I *should* have, given the personalities in the
> group.
I agree Eldred, so it's basically your fault, it was T1 on a restart, of
course you're going to be 3 wide, what were you thinking ???
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"
http://www.theuspits.com
"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--
In article <[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen
<[email hidden]> writes:
</me slaps Goy with a trout>
:-)
Eldred
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (10 lines)
>EldredP wrote: >> >> Actually, the 2-wide didn't bother me. I had already planned to let Tim >by, >> and I left him enough room. I obviously left TOO much room. I just didn't >> expect *3*-wide. I guess I *should* have, given the personalities in the >> group. > >I agree Eldred, so it's basically your fault, it was T1 on a restart, of >course you're going to be 3 wide, what were you thinking ???
EldredP wrote:
Thank you, much appreciated
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"
http://www.theuspits.com
"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--
