Left foot breaking uncomfortable

My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for the fastest reactions is uncomfortable. Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive in real life. Thanks -- Derek

Whoops. Not used to typing with the keyboard on my lap - Wheel is blocking its normal place. At least that's my excuse :) -- Derek

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:06:46 +0100, DerekBaker wrote:

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> My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for > the fastest reactions is uncomfortable. > > Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive in > real life. > > > Thanks

Yea, I have the same problem but I think it's because the pedals on my Microsoft untit are too close together and are not angled the same as a real car.

"DerekBaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:f15pa5$2g7p$[email hidden]... > My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for the > fastest reactions is uncomfortable. > > Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive in real > life. > You - keep practicing.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:06:46 +0100, DerekBaker <[email hidden]> wrote: >My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for >the fastest reactions is uncomfortable. > >Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive in >real life. I don't have those pedals but I'd say it's more likely you not being used to it. I left foot brake in my car due to it being a manual, if I was used to an auto, maybe things would have been different. Cheers, Rod.

Rod <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:06:46 +0100, DerekBaker <[email hidden]> > wrote: > >>My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for >>the fastest reactions is uncomfortable. >> >>Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive in >>real life. > > I don't have those pedals but I'd say it's more likely you not > being used to it.

I second this opinion. Generally, if you've never left foot braked before you first need to build up muscles to feel comfortable to keep foot in hovering position for a long periods time. > I left foot brake in my car due to it being a manual, if I was > used to an auto, maybe things would have been different.Is it a typo about left foot braking on manual or are the pedals are placed unusually (gas on the left?) in the country where you live? Alex.

On Wed, 02 May 2007 04:33:29 GMT, [email hidden] (alexti) wrote: >> I left foot brake in my car due to it being a manual, if I was >> used to an auto, maybe things would have been different. >Is it a typo about left foot braking on manual or are the pedals are placed >unusually (gas on the left?) in the country where you live? Oops, cocked that completely up. When I was taught in an auto I was told never to gas with the right and brake with the left but to do it all with the right foot. My left foot was planted firmly against the firewall at all times. Since I've been driving manuals for at least the last 10 years, having my left foot engaging a clutch made it pretty easy to start left foot braking. Since I got my G25, however, I'm back to left foot braking and heel toe'ing. I'm a bit slower than when I left foot braked but the experience is a lot more satisfying, especially in GTL. Cheers, Rod.

It like anything else, get used to it or it feels wierd at 1st.. Most people dotn know why we're usually taught how to drive an automatic, AND only to use one foot (usually the right) is because you have timid little mary and or johny, that is 15 and have just hardly stoped the dribble down thier chin, we're now gonna teach em to drive. So we Teach with the lowest common denominator, "just concentrate on using one foot to drive..." Oh your thinking Bullshit... well, Does this sound familiar? "NO! Your other LEFT!!!" This keeps us from being killed as teens in the Driver's Ed car, but damn near kills everyone else next semester, since now becausethe freaking kids are on cellphone too busy to friggin drive... All because everything is set so even the biggest dummy can learn and pass. LOL. DerekBaker enlightened us with:

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> My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for > the fastest reactions is uncomfortable. > > Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive in > real life. > > > Thanks > -- > Derek

left foot BREAKING is sure to be uncomfortable, for anybody! "DerekBaker" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:f15pa5$2g7p$[email hidden]...

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> My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for the > fastest reactions is uncomfortable. > > Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive in real > life. > > > Thanks > -- > Derek

"DerekBaker" wrote... > My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the > brake pedal for the fastest reactions is uncomfortable. > > Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 > Modena. Don't drive in real life. I can't comment on the particular ergonomics of this wheel, as I've never used it, but I think you're missing a trick here: of course you need to be "in position" to benifit from not actually having to move your foot over to the brakes, but you don't have to leave it there all the tine. My technique for left foot braking is to leave my heel in position, but rotate my foot away from the brake pedal and rest it on the base of the pedals when I'm not going to be braking again in the next few seconds. Then before my next brakemarker comes up I simply rotate imy foot back to position it on the brake. Jan. =---

Not quite "anyone" -- it isn't uncomfortable to anyone that has raced Karts ;) They are all left brake setup - you "can't" use the right foot to brake a Kart. ==--== "sudesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4638d8a1$0$23732$[email hidden]... > left foot BREAKING is sure to be uncomfortable, for anybody! > >

Rod <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> On Wed, 02 May 2007 04:33:29 GMT, [email hidden] (alexti) wrote: > >>> I left foot brake in my car due to it being a manual, if I was >>> used to an auto, maybe things would have been different. > >>Is it a typo about left foot braking on manual or are the pedals are >>placed unusually (gas on the left?) in the country where you live? > > Oops, cocked that completely up. > > When I was taught in an auto I was told never to gas with the > right and brake with the left but to do it all with the right > foot. My left foot was planted firmly against the firewall at > all times. > > Since I've been driving manuals for at least the last 10 years, > having my left foot engaging a clutch made it pretty easy > to start left foot braking. > > Since I got my G25, however, I'm back to left foot braking and > heel toe'ing. I'm a bit slower than when I left foot braked but > the experience is a lot more satisfying, especially in GTL.

Curiously, few years ago, when manual was typical in WRC I've seen some drivers left/right foot braking - they left foot braked in some corners and right foot braked in others. Some in-car cameras were catching really spectacular footwork :) Alex.

"Plowboy" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:p11_h.91508$[email hidden]: > Most people dotn know why we're usually taught how to drive an > automatic, AND only to use one foot (usually the right) is because you > have timid little mary and or johny ... <snip>I was always thinking that it was done so that people don't have to re- learn from right-foot braking to left-foot braking and back. I admit I've never been taught how to drive automatic, but I've tried on my own and quickly figured out that you use right foot to brake and left foot to smash on the brakes right after taking off from the traffic lights :) What fool came up with an idea of making the brake pedal so huge? Alex.

On Wed, 02 May 2007 19:40:01 GMT, "==--==" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Not quite "anyone" -- it isn't uncomfortable to anyone that has raced Karts >;) > >They are all left brake setup - you "can't" use the right foot to brake a >Kart. Note the word 'breaking'. :P Cheers, Rod.

* Rod:

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> On Wed, 02 May 2007 19:40:01 GMT, "==--==" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> Not quite "anyone" -- it isn't uncomfortable to anyone that has raced Karts >> ;) >> >> They are all left brake setup - you "can't" use the right foot to brake a >> Kart. > > Note the word 'breaking'. :P > > Cheers, > Rod.

Yeah, shame sudesh didn't note my correction two minutes after my OP. ;) -- Derek

Think about it, in "traffic" your supposed to be concentrating on traffic, so you concentrate- which means trying to anticipate the drivers and other obstacles around you. it takes an average person something like .02 seconds just to "think" about moving your foot (reactionary) then so many hundredtsh of seconds to move the foot. then depending on the brake system in this example, a few tenths to get the desired effect so I see you lose a second. But in traffic you "were taught in school and books and even commercials, to leave yourself a 5-6 seconds gap between yourself and others. so in traffic if you dont drive just passed the bumper of your car, you "should have time to react" to most things... But in racing your competing with others that are trying to achieve those 100ths of a second advantage over you and the next guy/gal competitior. so you want to give up the momentum and speed by lifting your foot off the accelerator and moving it to the brake, all the while traveling at over 150 mph for example? 150 mph is how many feet per second? so if I get .2 more seconds worth of full throttle I travel about 2% further down the track, and at higher speed, before I lift off the gas with my right foot, and Simultaneously bear down on the brake with my left. Automatics have the big brake, Im pretty sure, because so many years cars did NOT have automatic (2 pedals and throttle) so for asthetic reasons they made the brake pedal visually take up both places. You know, it was just because at first, you got out of your 53 ford, to buy the 56 belair with AT, and only saw one scrawny, all by itself brake pedal down there they figured, you'd of just think "I dont know for sure but something is missing here.." alexti enlightened us with:

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> "Plowboy" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:p11_h.91508$[email hidden]: > >> Most people dotn know why we're usually taught how to drive an >> automatic, AND only to use one foot (usually the right) is because >> you have timid little mary and or johny ... <snip> > I was always thinking that it was done so that people don't have to > re- learn from right-foot braking to left-foot braking and back. I > admit I've never been taught how to drive automatic, but I've tried > on my own and quickly figured out that you use right foot to brake > and left foot to smash on the brakes right after taking off from the > traffic lights :) What fool came up with an idea of making the brake > pedal so huge? > > Alex.

"Plowboy" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:2Vm_h.79205$[email hidden]:

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> Think about it, in "traffic" your supposed to be concentrating on > traffic, so you concentrate- which means trying to anticipate the > drivers and other obstacles around you. it takes an average person > something like .02 seconds just to "think" about moving your foot > (reactionary) then so many hundredtsh of seconds to move the foot. > then depending on the brake system in this example, a few tenths to get > the desired effect so I see you lose a second. But in traffic you "were > taught in school and books and even commercials, to leave yourself a > 5-6 seconds gap between yourself and others.

How many seconds will it take in traffic for the 5-6 gap to fill up? ;)

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> so in traffic if you dont > drive just passed the bumper of your car, you "should have time to > react" to most things... But in racing your competing with others that > are trying to achieve those 100ths of a second advantage over you and > the next guy/gal competitior. so you want to give up the momentum and > speed by lifting your foot off the accelerator and moving it to the > brake, all the while traveling at over 150 mph for example?

In racing conditions you keep the outer part of your foot on the throttle and the front inner part at the brake, and in many tecnhniques you don't release the throttle before starting to brake, it's more like starting to brake while still trailing the accelerator. There isn't much movement involved here. Using left foot is certainly much easier, but reality is that most racer come through lower formula (where they have no choice), so by the time they get into high-end cars with electronic clutch they're quite proficient at heel-and-toe so the difference between it and left foot braking is very minimal. Besides a lot of racers start in karts, so they are usually quite comfortable with both left and right foot braking. > Automatics have the big brake, Im pretty sure, because so many years > cars did NOT have automatic (2 pedals and throttle) so for asthetic > reasons they made the brake pedal visually take up both places.Strange that nobody thought (or thought and ignored) that this design is a safety risk with no apparent advantages...

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> alexti enlightened us with: >> "Plowboy" <[email hidden]> wrote in >> news:p11_h.91508$[email hidden]: >> >>> Most people dotn know why we're usually taught how to drive an >>> automatic, AND only to use one foot (usually the right) is because >>> you have timid little mary and or johny ... <snip> >> I was always thinking that it was done so that people don't have to >> re- learn from right-foot braking to left-foot braking and back. I >> admit I've never been taught how to drive automatic, but I've tried >> on my own and quickly figured out that you use right foot to brake >> and left foot to smash on the brakes right after taking off from the >> traffic lights :) What fool came up with an idea of making the brake >> pedal so huge? >> >> Alex. > >

Well, I know that with some tracks/setups in NR2003, if you remove your right foot from the gas to put it on the brake, by the time you get to the brake you'll be looking head-on into oncomming traffic. Aka Snap-spin. A good example of this is Richmond. I even tend to pre-load the brakes just a tad before letting off the gas when entering turns 1 and 3 there to keep the ass-end settled. -Larry "Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 02 May 2007 04:33:29 GMT, [email hidden] (alexti) wrote: > >>> I left foot brake in my car due to it being a manual, if I was >>> used to an auto, maybe things would have been different. > >>Is it a typo about left foot braking on manual or are the pedals are >>placed >>unusually (gas on the left?) in the country where you live? > > Oops, cocked that completely up. > > When I was taught in an auto I was told never to gas with the > right and brake with the left but to do it all with the right > foot. My left foot was planted firmly against the firewall at > all times. > > Since I've been driving manuals for at least the last 10 years, > having my left foot engaging a clutch made it pretty easy > to start left foot braking. > > Since I got my G25, however, I'm back to left foot braking and > heel toe'ing. I'm a bit slower than when I left foot braked but > the experience is a lot more satisfying, especially in GTL. > > Cheers, > Rod.

The muscle accuracy of your left foot needs some heavy practice in order to do a good job at braking. That'll come around eventually. But, and this is important: You need not hover your left foot over your pedal for any period of time. Race car drivers don't do this either. They keep their left foot out of the way for as much time as possible. In order to let it rest, and in order to avoid accidental sagging of the brakes which is, of course, bad for speed... You need to move your left foot away from the brake pedal, preferrably let it rest on a dedicated "platform", and the platform needs to be higher (in the actuating plane of the pedal) than your pedal so that you can just slide/rotate your foot to the right and land comfortably on your brake pedal. This is good for reaction, and will be more than adequate for normal race conditions. Letting your foot rest will improve accuracy too, because the static position over your braking pedal will be bad for your muscle, you'll tense up, and you'll eventually end up with a hurting leg. How's that for realism, arriving at work on monday morning with a limp due to extensive racing on sunday... ---A--- On 01.05.2007 00:06, DerekBaker wrote:

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> My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for > the fastest reactions is uncomfortable. > > Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive in > real life. > > > Thanks

It has been done (VBG) Asgeir Nesoen enlightened us with:

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> The muscle accuracy of your left foot needs some heavy practice in > order to do a good job at braking. That'll come around eventually. > > But, and this is important: You need not hover your left foot over > your pedal for any period of time. Race car drivers don't do this > either. They keep their left foot out of the way for as much time as > possible. In order to let it rest, and in order to avoid accidental > sagging of the brakes which is, of course, bad for speed... > > You need to move your left foot away from the brake pedal, preferrably > let it rest on a dedicated "platform", and the platform needs to be > higher (in the actuating plane of the pedal) than your pedal so that > you can just slide/rotate your foot to the right and land comfortably > on your brake pedal. This is good for reaction, and will be more than > adequate for normal race conditions. > > Letting your foot rest will improve accuracy too, because the static > position over your braking pedal will be bad for your muscle, you'll > tense up, and you'll eventually end up with a hurting leg. How's that > for realism, arriving at work on monday morning with a limp due to > extensive racing on sunday... > > ---A--- > > On 01.05.2007 00:06, DerekBaker wrote: >> My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for >> the fastest reactions is uncomfortable. >> >> Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive in >> real life. >> >> >> Thanks

"Asgeir Nesoen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:f1pe8u$p5t$[email hidden]... > > You need to move your left foot away from the brake pedal, preferrably let > it rest on a dedicated "platform", and the platform needs to be higher (in > the actuating plane of the pedal) than your pedal so that you can just > slide/rotate your foot to the right and land comfortably on your brake > pedal. This is known as a dead pedal. More pedal manufacturers should incorporate this into their designs.

"Asgeir Nesoen" wrote... > <snip> Thanks for repeating what I said, but making it sound scientific. ;-) Jan. =---

Lol, I didn't bother to read through the entire thread, so I read your post after writing my own. And I thought I was the only smart guy around, hehehehe. Well, king for a day. Or smartass for about 12 seconds. ---A--- On 09.05.2007 00:48, Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> "Asgeir Nesoen" wrote... >> <snip> > > Thanks for repeating what I said, but making it sound scientific. ;-) > > Jan. > =--- > >

I should stipulate that playing enough on sunday that you limp on monday, has been done (lol). Plowboy enlightened us with:

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> It has been done (VBG) > Asgeir Nesoen enlightened us with: >> The muscle accuracy of your left foot needs some heavy practice in >> order to do a good job at braking. That'll come around eventually. >> >> But, and this is important: You need not hover your left foot over >> your pedal for any period of time. Race car drivers don't do this >> either. They keep their left foot out of the way for as much time as >> possible. In order to let it rest, and in order to avoid accidental >> sagging of the brakes which is, of course, bad for speed... >> >> You need to move your left foot away from the brake pedal, >> preferrably let it rest on a dedicated "platform", and the platform >> needs to be higher (in the actuating plane of the pedal) than your >> pedal so that you can just slide/rotate your foot to the right and >> land comfortably on your brake pedal. This is good for reaction, and >> will be more than adequate for normal race conditions. >> >> Letting your foot rest will improve accuracy too, because the static >> position over your braking pedal will be bad for your muscle, you'll >> tense up, and you'll eventually end up with a hurting leg. How's that >> for realism, arriving at work on monday morning with a limp due to >> extensive racing on sunday... >> >> ---A--- >> >> On 01.05.2007 00:06, DerekBaker wrote: >>> My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal >>> for the fastest reactions is uncomfortable. >>> >>> Me or the pedals? I'm using a Thrustmaster 360 Modena. Don't drive >>> in real life. >>> >>> >>> Thanks

On Apr 30, 6:06 pm, DerekBaker <[email hidden]> wrote: > My right foot's fine, but leaving my left foot on the brake pedal for > the fastest reactions is uncomfortable. I think a big problem, at least for me, is that sim pedals tend to have poor ergonomics. I use MS wheels, which have fairly nice consumer-level pedals, and a.) the pedals aren't close enough to heel and toe, as I would in a real car and b.) the pedals are too close together to comfortably LFB as I would in a gokart (or, presumably, a semi-automatic open wheeler). I think if I owned a set of pedals that allowed for adjustable spacing between the throttle/brake, I'd be ok using either technique. As it stands, neither one is particularly comfortable.