NR2003 Marty set-up: who has one that can do better than 43rd against the AI?

I can do top 5's at Bristol; top 5's at Las Vegas; squat at Martinsville. It's either the set-up or the AI is calibrated so badly (fast) there that there is no hope. What can you all do? Marc -- **************************************************************************** Marc Collins [email hidden] Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? ****************************************************************************

Definitely not a stock car set up wiz, but some things that seem to help for me, especially at short tracks and roadies: Front springs around 600 Rear springs around 300 - 400 As much tape as you can possibly get away with Max rear spoiler Increase rear ARB until you get a roll couple of around 80% Front toe-out around 0.125 - 0.175 Drop the track bar all the way down Front dampers no more than one click higher than the rear Brake bias ~60% Use as little wedge and front weight as you can get away with. Some of the short track setups included with the game actually use negative wedge, although I don't recall which ones. Like I said, I'm no expert at this but to me the primary problem with the fast and Jasper setups is that they are often what DW (I think) once called "pushy loose", meaning they are so tight on entry that you have to crank in too much steering lock, and then you can't get the lock out fast enough on exit, which makes them feel loose even though they aren't. Doesn't seem to be a problem on the speedways so much, but on short tracks I have a very difficult time getting the car down onto the apron with the default settings. So I work on getting the car a little looser (although 80% roll couple is still not truly loose if you're smooth with the controls), then adjust the toe and the track bar a bit to keep it under control. Also I think you want to use the lowest spring rates you can possibly get away with in order to drop the car down and get more downforce. I guess that is always true, but with regards to short tracks it seems like anything over 600 front / 400 rear causes a distinct loss of downforce. I am faster with these settings than with the fast setups, but admittedly still a bit off the pace. Hopefully somebody with more experience than me will add to or correct what I have just said. "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1grja.6965$[email hidden]...

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> I can do top 5's at Bristol; top 5's at Las Vegas; squat at Martinsville. > It's either the set-up or the AI is calibrated so badly (fast) there that > there is no hope. What can you all do? > > Marc > > -- >

**************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > to take effect. Reboot now? >**************************************************************************** > >

So where are you against the AI at 100%? Marc "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b6n1d6$74d8g$[email hidden]... > Definitely not a stock car set up wiz, but some things that seem to helpfor

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> me, especially at short tracks and roadies: > > Front springs around 600 > Rear springs around 300 - 400 > As much tape as you can possibly get away with > Max rear spoiler > Increase rear ARB until you get a roll couple of around 80% > Front toe-out around 0.125 - 0.175 > Drop the track bar all the way down > Front dampers no more than one click higher than the rear > Brake bias ~60% > Use as little wedge and front weight as you can get away with. Some of

the > short track setups included with the game actually use negative wedge, > although I don't recall which ones. > > Like I said, I'm no expert at this but to me the primary problem with the > fast and Jasper setups is that they are often what DW (I think) oncecalled > "pushy loose", meaning they are so tight on entry that you have to crankin > too much steering lock, and then you can't get the lock out fast enough on > exit, which makes them feel loose even though they aren't. Doesn't seemto > be a problem on the speedways so much, but on short tracks I have a very > difficult time getting the car down onto the apron with the default > settings. So I work on getting the car a little looser (although 80% roll > couple is still not truly loose if you're smooth with the controls), then > adjust the toe and the track bar a bit to keep it under control. Also I > think you want to use the lowest spring rates you can possibly get awaywith

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> in order to drop the car down and get more downforce. I guess that is > always true, but with regards to short tracks it seems like anything over > 600 front / 400 rear causes a distinct loss of downforce. > > I am faster with these settings than with the fast setups, but admittedly > still a bit off the pace. Hopefully somebody with more experience than me > will add to or correct what I have just said. > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:1grja.6965$[email hidden]... > > I can do top 5's at Bristol; top 5's at Las Vegas; squat at

Martinsville. > > It's either the set-up or the AI is calibrated so badly (fast) therethat

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> > there is no hope. What can you all do? > > > > Marc > > > > -- > > >

****************************************************************************

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> > Marc Collins > > [email hidden] > > > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > > to take effect. Reboot now? > > >

**************************************************************************** > > > > > >

I have been setting the AI to auto and it typically ends up around 90% on ovals and 100% on roadies. I suspect that in both cases that is a little off the pace compared to what people are running on line. Hey, I didn't say I was fast, I just said that stuff works better for me than the fast or jasper setups do. ;o) "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eFEja.7554$[email hidden]... > So where are you against the AI at 100%? > > Marc

There are many set-up philosophies out there. I hope yours works for you. All I care about is one that can do better than 43rd at Marty against 100% AI. Reading between the lines, I am suggesting there isn't one or it will be exceedingly rare. This is likely because the AI at Marty are "too fast" because they have too much grip, which allows them to carry more speed through the corner and get a better launch coming out of the corner. Marc "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b6n6uk$7098m$[email hidden]... > I have been setting the AI to auto and it typically ends up around 90% on > ovals and 100% on roadies. I suspect that in both cases that is a little > off the pace compared to what people are running on line. Hey, I didn'tsay

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> I was fast, I just said that stuff works better for me than the fast or > jasper setups do. ;o) > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:eFEja.7554$[email hidden]... > > So where are you against the AI at 100%? > > > > Marc > >

In article <nPYja.159$[email hidden]>, "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> writes: >There are many set-up philosophies out there. I hope yours works for you. >All I care about is one that can do better than 43rd at Marty against 100% >AI. Reading between the lines, I am suggesting there isn't one or it will >be exceedingly rare. This is likely because the AI at Marty are "too fast" >because they have too much grip, which allows them to carry more speed >through the corner and get a better launch coming out of the corner. I just tried it out of curiousity. 42 AI cars, I could only run a 21.544 with the fast setup - good for 43rd place. 42nd place was either 21.0 or 21.1 something. We were the only two cars atr 21 seconds or slower. I just can't get the car to turn in the middle of the corner - very frustrating. I'm not looking forward to next week's race... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.680 MonsterRank: +334.169 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Well Eldred, I think that we are not the best racers, but neither are we so bad we can't do better than 43rd. Especially when top 5's are relatively easy at some of the other short/shorter tracks. The AI is wonky at Marty, I believe, as it is at some of the other tracks. But, the point of this post was so that I can be proven wrong. Keep searching for those people who can keep up with the AI :) One or two of them might be willing to share a set-up...if we can find any... Marc "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <nPYja.159$[email hidden]>, "Marc Collins" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >There are many set-up philosophies out there. I hope yours works foryou. > >All I care about is one that can do better than 43rd at Marty against100% > >AI. Reading between the lines, I am suggesting there isn't one or itwill > >be exceedingly rare. This is likely because the AI at Marty are "toofast" > >because they have too much grip, which allows them to carry more speed > >through the corner and get a better launch coming out of the corner. > > I just tried it out of curiousity. 42 AI cars, I could only run a 21.544with > the fast setup - good for 43rd place. 42nd place was either 21.0 or 21.1 > something. We were the only two cars atr 21 seconds or slower. I justcan't

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> get the car to turn in the middle of the corner - very frustrating. > I'm not looking forward to next week's race... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-1.680 > MonsterRank: +334.169 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > In article <nPYja.159$[email hidden]>, "Marc Collins" > <[email hidden]> writes: > <snip> This is likely because the AI at Marty are "too fast"

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> >because they have too much grip, which allows them to carry more speed > >through the corner and get a better launch coming out of the corner. > > I just tried it out of curiousity. 42 AI cars, I could only run a 21.544 with > the fast setup - good for 43rd place. 42nd place was either 21.0 or 21.1 > something. We were the only two cars atr 21 seconds or slower. I just can't > get the car to turn in the middle of the corner - very frustrating. > I'm not looking forward to next week's race... > > Eldred

With the fast setup, I am only at 21.5xx myself. I watched the AI from the chase mode to see what line they are running. They come into the corner late, but hit the apex perfect and hold the curb all the way through. Now granted, my line is not perfect all of the time, but the AI do have way too much grip. They hold their speeds through the corners in the mid 60's and up to 120 at the end of the straight. (20.8xx lap times, and I think I saw a 20.2xx) On my best lap, I think I only hit 63 in the corners and 116 at the end of the straight. If we are all on the same page next weekend, it won't much matter, but I'm sure Pete Reston and T White, amongst others, will be hitting close to these AI speeds. I can actually get around the track now without spinning out, but I'm sure someone will help me with that next Saturday. Don't hit that brake too far into the corner...let the speed scrub off. Hit the apex in the corner right, and you can gas it down the straight. If you miss the apex, you are looking at about 110 down the straight, and a nice leisurely lap time of about 22.xxx. I ran in traffic with the AI, and I have to really push it just to keep up with the last car. Of course, bumping them into the wall is a good last resort for passing ;) By the way, I've programmed all of my chat buttons to say...."pass me low" See you on pit road. I'll be the one without a front and rear end. By the way, I know this isn't the right thread, but John, I wish I was around at Tally long enough to have a sweaty grip.

FWIW I was able to run a 21.3 with the fast setup in a test session (after about 200 laps of trying). If I can do it, somebody with more "sperence" can surely run a mid 20 and I'm sure with a good setup 19 is within reach. What worked for me was to diamond the corner (double apex if you're a roadie). It worked almost as well to run a late apex line. Anything you can do to straighten out the exit will buy you a significant amount of speed. I also saw some footage from last year's race on TV tonight, and it looked like that's what most of them were doing, going about half a lane wide in the middle and then straightening out the exit. Not sure what it takes to hug the curb, probably a whole lot of front toe out and a high track bar, but I wasn't able to get it to work. Also, I know this will raise some eyebrows, but I couldn't even find the right line until I temporarily switched to the bumper cam. I would never race this way, but there is no better view if you really want to see where your car is relative to the track surface. I seriously suggest trying a few laps this way, because it is almost impossible to read the banking at Martinsville from the cockpit view. From the bumper cam the banking is easy to see and it is very obvious where you need to put the car. Once you figure out where you need to be, you can go back to the cockpit view and nobody will know the difference. I promise I won't tell anyone. ;o) "Boyk7808" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > With the fast setup, I am only at 21.5xx myself. I watched the AI from > the chase mode to see what line they are running. They come into the > corner late, but hit the apex perfect and hold the curb all the way > through. Now granted, my line is not perfect all of the time, but the > AI do have way too much grip. They hold their speeds through the > corners in the mid 60's and up to 120 at the end of the straight. > (20.8xx lap times, and I think I saw a 20.2xx) On my best lap, I think > I only hit 63 in the corners and 116 at the end of the straight. If we > are all on the same page next weekend, it won't much matter, but I'm > sure Pete Reston and T White, amongst others, will be hitting close to > these AI speeds. I can actually get around the track now without > spinning out, but I'm sure someone will help me with that next > Saturday. Don't hit that brake too far into the corner...let the speed > scrub off. Hit the apex in the corner right, and you can gas it down > the straight. If you miss the apex, you are looking at about 110 down > the straight, and a nice leisurely lap time of about 22.xxx. I ran in > traffic with the AI, and I have to really push it just to keep up with > the last car. Of course, bumping them into the wall is a good last > resort for passing ;) By the way, I've programmed all of my chat > buttons to say...."pass me low" > > See you on pit road. I'll be the one without a front and rear end. > > By the way, I know this isn't the right thread, but John, I wish I was > around at Tally long enough to have a sweaty grip.

Good tips and advice! Thanks. Anything in the 19's would certainly be a top 5 against the AI!!! Marc "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b6tc67$8tugh$[email hidden]...

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> FWIW I was able to run a 21.3 with the fast setup in a test session (after > about 200 laps of trying). If I can do it, somebody with more "sperence" > can surely run a mid 20 and I'm sure with a good setup 19 is within reach. > What worked for me was to diamond the corner (double apex if you're a > roadie). It worked almost as well to run a late apex line. Anything you > can do to straighten out the exit will buy you a significant amount of > speed. I also saw some footage from last year's race on TV tonight, and

it

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> looked like that's what most of them were doing, going about half a lane > wide in the middle and then straightening out the exit. Not sure what it > takes to hug the curb, probably a whole lot of front toe out and a high > track bar, but I wasn't able to get it to work. > > Also, I know this will raise some eyebrows, but I couldn't even find the > right line until I temporarily switched to the bumper cam. I would never > race this way, but there is no better view if you really want to see where > your car is relative to the track surface. I seriously suggest trying a

few > laps this way, because it is almost impossible to read the banking at > Martinsville from the cockpit view. From the bumper cam the banking iseasy

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> to see and it is very obvious where you need to put the car. Once you > figure out where you need to be, you can go back to the cockpit view and > nobody will know the difference. I promise I won't tell anyone. ;o) > > > "Boyk7808" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > With the fast setup, I am only at 21.5xx myself. I watched the AI from > > the chase mode to see what line they are running. They come into the > > corner late, but hit the apex perfect and hold the curb all the way > > through. Now granted, my line is not perfect all of the time, but the > > AI do have way too much grip. They hold their speeds through the > > corners in the mid 60's and up to 120 at the end of the straight. > > (20.8xx lap times, and I think I saw a 20.2xx) On my best lap, I think > > I only hit 63 in the corners and 116 at the end of the straight. If we > > are all on the same page next weekend, it won't much matter, but I'm > > sure Pete Reston and T White, amongst others, will be hitting close to > > these AI speeds. I can actually get around the track now without > > spinning out, but I'm sure someone will help me with that next > > Saturday. Don't hit that brake too far into the corner...let the speed > > scrub off. Hit the apex in the corner right, and you can gas it down > > the straight. If you miss the apex, you are looking at about 110 down > > the straight, and a nice leisurely lap time of about 22.xxx. I ran in > > traffic with the AI, and I have to really push it just to keep up with > > the last car. Of course, bumping them into the wall is a good last > > resort for passing ;) By the way, I've programmed all of my chat > > buttons to say...."pass me low" > > > > See you on pit road. I'll be the one without a front and rear end. > > > > By the way, I know this isn't the right thread, but John, I wish I was > > around at Tally long enough to have a sweaty grip. > >

You're welcome, and now I have an even better tip for you. After posting that last message last night I saw a couple references in other messages to Andreas Wilke's site http://www.sim-replays.de/. Go there and download his setups and replays for Martinsville. He is running in the mid 20's, which I think should be competitive against the AI. Haven't had time to try his setup, but I took a quick look at it and watched the replay. He is daimonding the turns too, but doing a much better job of it than I did. ;o) Interestingly, his setup is the opposite of what I expected, instead of making it looser he actually made it tighter than the fast setup, which I guess allows him to put more power to the pavement. Give it a try, I think you will like it. "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tCqka.906$[email hidden]... > Good tips and advice! Thanks. > > Anything in the 19's would certainly be a top 5 against the AI!!! > > Marc

On 06 Apr 2003 19:22:11 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >I just tried it out of curiousity. 42 AI cars, I could only run a 21.544 with >the fast setup - good for 43rd place. 42nd place was either 21.0 or 21.1 >something. We were the only two cars atr 21 seconds or slower. I just can't >get the car to turn in the middle of the corner - very frustrating. >I'm not looking forward to next week's race... Is this qualifying or the race? At Marty I find the cars a bit too fast in qual (I can do a 20.8 with the default qual setup but that's still in the high 20's) but during the race I can stay in the pack and slowly pick off cars by putting it in cruise control. The big thing I find that helps but isn't quite as consistent is to shift down to third as I brake hard, get off the gas when the concrete starts and use a little throttle to keep the tires chirping. Then when I see the taco bell sign I floor it and countersteer. I tend to drive it like 180 degree turns on a roadcourse, and if I don't have to countersteer hard out of the turns I tend to be going too slowly. Jason

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) writes:

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>On 06 Apr 2003 19:22:11 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>I just tried it out of curiousity. 42 AI cars, I could only run a 21.544 >with >>the fast setup - good for 43rd place. 42nd place was either 21.0 or 21.1 >>something. We were the only two cars atr 21 seconds or slower. I just >can't >>get the car to turn in the middle of the corner - very frustrating. >>I'm not looking forward to next week's race... > >Is this qualifying or the race? > >At Marty I find the cars a bit too fast in qual (I can do a 20.8 with >the default qual setup but that's still in the high 20's) but during >the race I can stay in the pack and slowly pick off cars by putting it >in cruise control.

Open practice. I figure those times would be what everyone is running in the race(full fuel, etc.). Even when I got a clean track, it wasn't long before I got caught, then freight-trained. In a 100 lap race, I'd probably end up 10-15 laps down... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.680 MonsterRank: +334.169 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.